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#747901 - 08/16/08 02:51 AM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
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jehza1
Veteran
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Southwest US
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Well said Dr. F, I also agree that you diagnoses don't seem to be congruent with contemporary psychiatry, and suspect that your doc is confusing mania with hyper-activity. I might seek a second opinion, as this is one monkey that you don't want on your back. I was a year younger than you when I started taking benzo's regularly....and was 28 when I stopped. I am not going to blab on about it, but it was not an easy endevour to say the very least.
Additionally, Prozac is notorious for causing anxiety in patients with depression, regardless of whether or not they are prone to anxiety to begin with. It is one of the most stimulating SSRI's out there, and also has the longest first past metabolism, meaning that if you decided to cease taking it, it will take a full six weeks to get out of your system, were as with most SSRI's you are pretty much free and clear after two weeks of cessation.
There is a new anti-depressant on the market that combines an SSRI and something akin to Seroquel. I can't think of the name right now, but I will look it up soon. Reports have been good with it, so that might be an alternative, as well.
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.
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#747991 - 08/16/08 09:32 AM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
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thesyd
Banned. You have to be 21 years old
Journeyman
Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 80
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If you don’t mind me asking, why does your doc have you on an SSRI if you’ve been diagnosed as having bipolar disorder (SSRIs can induce manic episodes in persons with bipolar disorder). If he wants to treat both mania and depression, why not Ability, an antipsychotic that allegedly treats the depressive features of bipolar disorder?
Is you doctor a psychiatrist or a GP? I only ask because a dual diagnosis of AD/HD and bipolar disorder, while not unprecedented, may not be the most parsimonious diagnosis. Have you seen a specialist? Perhaps a doctoral-level clinical psychologist who could give you a more parsimonious diagnosis, and then make appropriate med recommendations to your doc- or you could find a new doc.
If you have AD/HD, are you on any type of medication for this disorder? I ask because, other than atomoxetine (Strattera) and a handful of tricyclics and one anti-hypertensive (clonidine), AD/HD is treated with stimulants (amphetamine salts or methylphenidate). If you’re anxious, stimulants can make you even more anxious.
yeah, he is a pdoc...but that doesnt mean anything. this is my second doctor and i feel as though it is time for a new one. i've never found one that listens to his "crazy" patients. im sure he thinks that the few times i do question his methods i am just overreacting. i had the whole day long psyc testing done. as for add medication, i refuse to take it long term (although if i dont get my [censored] in gear to become a "normal" member of society i might have to use it for a little while regularly). however i love taking high doses of adderall or ritalin when i am trying put down a track. but i would have a hard time, i agree, taking a stimulant and being around other people.
and right now i feel as though the antipsychotics are a bit overkill. that little voice that drives my creativity is just not there anymore since being on seroquel.
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#747994 - 08/16/08 09:41 AM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
[Re: jehza1]
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thesyd
Banned. You have to be 21 years old
Journeyman
Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 80
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Well said Dr. F, I was a year younger than you when I started taking benzo's regularly....and was 28 when I stopped. I am not going to blab on about it, but it was not an easy endevour to say the very least.
Additionally, Prozac is notorious for causing anxiety in patients with depression, regardless of whether or not they are prone to anxiety to begin with. It is one of the most stimulating SSRI's out there, and also has the longest first past metabolism, meaning that if you decided to cease taking it, it will take a full six weeks to get out of your system, were as with most SSRI's you are pretty much free and clear after two weeks of cessation.
do you feel better after withdrawing than before starting the benzos? this is my sixth ssri. the doc goes apeshit over the 20 cure ssri's. i have 8th appointment with him in a month, and i am going to figure out a subtle way of giving him an ultimatum of "listen" or im getting a new doctor.
he did prescribe me klonopin for about two months but my parents told him that i was abusing the .5 mg pills, which is odd since i didnt experience any dry days between refills.
Edited by thesyd (08/16/08 09:42 AM)
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#748032 - 08/16/08 11:34 AM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
[Re: thesyd]
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jehza1
Veteran
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Southwest US
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[quote=jehza1]Well said Dr. F, I was a year younger than you when I started taking benzo's regularly....and was 28 when I stopped. I am not going to blab on about it, but it was not an easy endevour to say the very least.
Additionally, Prozac is notorious for causing anxiety in patients with depression, regardless of whether or not they are prone to anxiety to begin with. It is one of the most stimulating SSRI's out there, and also has the longest first past metabolism, meaning that if you decided to cease taking it, it will take a full six weeks to get out of your system, were as with most SSRI's you are pretty much free and clear after two weeks of cessation.
do you feel better after withdrawing than before starting the benzos?
Not initially. But I felt better about my life. I'm just over thirty though, so we are in different places. My anxiety at your age was through the roof, and I know that it is hard to try and do the "right" thing when you feel the way that you do. I rarely slept and was full of fear, as you think that these feelings will last forever, as you are young yet. I felt a whole lot better once I started dealing with anxiety as something existential rather than something that was exclusively medical.
I won't mention the uni's name, but the first time I was given any psychotropic medication was at a well established E. coast uni student clinic, one that you would think would not advocate "better living through chemistry" as first line treatment for anxiety and depression.
I am quite the crusader about how seductive (and dangerous) benzos are, so keep that in mind when reading anything that I post. Some people can take them and walk away. I was not one of those people, obviously.
Unfortuntately, it's cheaper and more time effective to give someone a pill than to take the time to get to the "root" of why they feel that way to begin with.
this is my sixth ssri. the doc goes apeshit over the 20 cure ssri's. i have 8th appointment with him in a month, and i am going to figure out a subtle way of giving him an ultimatum of "listen" or im getting a new doctor.
If you have good insurance get a new doc. Have you talked about this with your parents?(I mention this as you mentioned them--and assume that you are still living at home). SSRI's don't work for some people, and there are a lot of other alternatives out there. I'm going to leave it with that as I don't know you or your history, but if you really feel like this guy is not going to help you, you are wasting your time and money with him.
he did prescribe me klonopin for about two months but my parents told him that i was abusing the .5 mg pills, which is odd since i didnt experience any dry days between refills.
The weird thing about Klonopin is that although it doesn't cause the euphoria that Xanax or even Valium might, as far as dosage goes, even half a milligram is a lot. It also has a long half life, meaning that if you have a steady stream of it in your blood, you might not feel any withdrawal symptoms for a few days. The further out you get from your last use ( I'm talking days here, not weeks) the more acute your withdrawal symptoms become.
That might explain why you felt no ill effects. You also may not be physically dependent on benzos yet, and therefore don't manifest a lot of the symptoms associated with the discontinuation of long term use. I hope the latter is true as you are young and haven't taken these meds for an extended period of time. I think it "likely" that you aren't physically dep. which is good news and more fodder for not using these drugs to "cope". Again, I'm not a doc and don't know you, so please take this with a grain of salt.
Anyway, at the end of the day you probably know whether you were or were not taking these drugs as prescribed. That is ultimately the most important assessment of your situation, I think.
Hope that helped, Jessica
Edited by jehza1 (08/16/08 11:36 AM)
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.
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#748091 - 08/16/08 01:55 PM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
[Re: thesyd]
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nephro
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 8572
Loc: UK, despite the rumours
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do you feel better after withdrawing than before starting the benzos?
Everything else remaining equal, no. They don't 'cure' anything in that respect. Some people can be affected for the rest of their lives by benzodiazepine use, especially if it was in excess and led to addiction and withdrawal. There are some similarities between this and alcoholism. Some alcoholics have a hard time saying no to a drink years and years after their 'last' one, hence the saying 'once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic', rightly or wrongly of course.
For some people it's relatively easy, but for others they just cannot stop returning to alcohol, or take other drugs instead.
Read about George Best, and how he killed himself with alcohol. It has been said that he was the only person to drink disulfiram under the table! Even after a liver transplant, he went back to drinking.
The physical damage may not be as relevant with benzodiazepines, but wiring in the brain can be changed such that it may never fully return to what it was before.
however i love taking high doses of adderall or ritalin when i am trying put down a track.
This looks like it's leading to trouble, possibly long-term psychological damage if you're going to also be taking 'considerable' amounts of benzodiazepines. It will worsen anxiety, you'll be swinging from one extreme to the other, and your body will have a hell of a job trying to cope with it.
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#748254 - 08/16/08 08:45 PM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
[Re: thesyd]
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OldandWorn
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 6843
Loc: Among the 58 million.
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im about to get into my third round of considerable benzo use-- all in one year. im 20 right now and i enjoy benzos immensely to help me be able to live life enjoyably. im finally caving in and ordered a couple months supply of xanax and klonopin.
i've been extremely anxious, paranoid,and riddled with a large amount of various phsyical pains related to the bad anxiety for the past three months. (some of it might be due the discontinuation of 3 months of klonopin use, but i feel worse today as i am typing this than i felt any time before now).
so basically i've just decided that i am going to take up all the benzos have to offer. more than likely at some point i am going to find myself in an acutely compromised situation due to addiction. however, right now i am willing to deal with whatever problems come when i do decide to taper.
so...i am diagnosed with add and bipolar, but i am about to quit the seroquel. my doctor is one daffy quack. i am also on 20 mg prozac, which i don't really need for depression...and it does nothing for my anxiety. so i am thinking that the prozac might prevent some of the depression that occurs in benzo users due to the reduction of serotonin? any thoughts on that particular effect?
also, would it be best to hold off on valium and only use it in the tapering process?
Please, do yourself a big favor, stay away from xanax. It is not manageable. If you HAVE TO, just take valium but at your age, I feel it will hold you back in life. Good luck.
_________________________
Give me a secret, Bring me a sign. Give me a reason, to walk the fire. See another dawn, through our daughter's eyes.
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#748597 - 08/17/08 02:15 PM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
[Re: nephro]
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jehza1
Veteran
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Southwest US
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So the manufacturers of eszopiclone say that? God help the patients of any doctor that believes it, and zopiclone addiction has been observed not infrequently in the UK. I would have thought it also leaves them open to being sued; perhaps they make so much money they can afford it?
It's amazing how long tolerance can last for even after the drug is discontinued; you're not the only person to experience this. You can probably lose the tolerance, but who knows how long it will take? One thing is almost certain though: it will come back very quickly indeed.
In the states it's more likely that the manufacture of the drug will be sued--only if it starts killing people, however. I've only seen one or two class actions suits involving the use of psychotropics, but it is common to hear "outcry" on talk shows.
Our health care system must seem barbaric to you. Even Jay Leno touts the excellent care and quality of caring physicians in the U.K. (evidently his mother in law had some major health crisis while visiting and had to have surgery and stay in hospital for a few weeks, he received a $2,000 bill and was apoogized to for being charged at all) and he is about as Republican as you get. I remember seeing an interview prior to M. Moore's documentary "Sicko" with a young British physician who was being interviewed by an American journalist---he seemed stunned by the nature of questions about not treating a patient because they didn't have insurance or taking kick backs for prescribing drug A over drug B.
By no means are all American doctors this way, but more of them are like this then you would think. Health care is a huge industry here (perhaps the biggest). Even I am skeptical about their being a chance at reform.
Sorry, way off topic...
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.
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#748838 - 08/17/08 11:10 PM
Re: Here i go, any experienced benzo users WELCOME
[Re: ]
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Strawberry
GOLDEN EAGLE
GRAND Pooh-Bah
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