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#735297 - 07/25/08 07:03 AM Best way to take an opiate break??
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	I have tried to search through so much material here but haven't been able to find exactly what I'm looking for. I'm simply looking to take a short break from opiates, maybe a week or two, and wonder what I can take to help alleviate or minimize the withdrawal? Any help you can offer is appreciated. Thanks!
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#735325 - 07/25/08 07:48 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: dnj]
nephro nephro GRAND Pooh-Bah Registered: 09/04/06 Posts: 8570 Loc: UK, despite the rumours	How long have you been on them? If it's a long time then withdrawal is pretty much inevitable. It may be better to slowly taper to reduce tolerance, supplement with NSAIDs, APAP and maybe a sleep aid.
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#735418 - 07/25/08 09:56 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: nephro]
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	Thanks Nephro, It's been mostly on for a year and a half....and pretty high doses right now for me, 100 to 120 mg hydro; sometimes 80 oc with hydro for break through. How long would you recommend a taper process take? Reduce by one pill a day, one a week? The only time I have done this before was inpatient where it's done in three days, but I don't want to have to do all the other associated inpatient rehab activities. I think even many suboxone doctors require you attend NA meetings, etc. and I really do not want to go through that just to take a break. Any help you can offer is appreciated.
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#735431 - 07/25/08 10:22 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: dnj]
Dennit Dennit Pooh-Bah Registered: 01/14/08 Posts: 1446	I was on hydro for 4 years and now haven't had one since last November. I bought Kratom (not the super strong type) powder, used a straw to put it into empty capsules and took one every four hours. That, in combination with hot baths, pretty much sailed me through the worst of it. Good luck.
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#735574 - 07/25/08 12:48 PM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: Dennit]
dvz dvz Newbie Registered: 09/14/05 Posts: 33	If you have enough, I would suggest tapering down a pill each day. I encourage you to stay away from non-opiate pain relievers as best you can as you've been taking in high doses of acetaminophen with all that hydro. And we are learning more and more about how deadly acetaminophen is to the liver. NSAIDs somewhat less so. I would supplement with valium (but not xanax) because of its muscle relaxant properties. It will also help with the anxiety that comes with tapering. And in the evening I would take one to two 10 mg tabs of ambien. Kind of the "sleep cure" if you know what I mean. Sending you supportive thoughts, dvz
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#735887 - 07/25/08 10:15 PM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: dvz]
latus0514 latus0514 Member Registered: 05/20/08 Posts: 180 Loc: Midwest, USA	Hi dnj, I don't have much input on this, but I just want to tell you you're moving in the right step if you realize you need to take a break. You'll get through it. It will not be easy at all, but it is very do-able. I've had to do it before, and actually my benzo withdrawl was 10x worse than my opiate withdrawel. Good Luck to you on this and you'll be in my prayers! Brian
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#736094 - 07/26/08 09:35 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: latus0514]
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	Thank you all for your kind thoughts and prayers. I am going to make sure I have enough to taper, along with Valium and a sleep aide. I appreciate the support. I haven't done research yet.......but what is Kratom? Is it safe? What role does it play in preventing withdrawal? If you know. Thanks again.
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#736107 - 07/26/08 09:55 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: latus0514]
OldandWorn OldandWorn GRAND Pooh-Bah Registered: 09/21/03 Posts: 6842 Loc: Among the 58 million.	Originally Posted By: latus0514 Hi dnj, I don't have much input on this, but I just want to tell you you're moving in the right step if you realize you need to take a break. You'll get through it. It will not be easy at all, but it is very do-able. I've had to do it before, and actually my benzo withdrawl was 10x worse than my opiate withdrawel. Good Luck to you on this and you'll be in my prayers! Brian There is no good way for either. Benzo is worse. My benchmarks would be - down to 10 mg hydro a day. 10 mg diazepam a day. Any lower is just silly _________________________ Give me a secret, Bring me a sign. Give me a reason, to walk the fire. See another dawn, through our daughter's eyes.
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#736212 - 07/26/08 01:51 PM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: OldandWorn]
latus0514 latus0514 Member Registered: 05/20/08 Posts: 180 Loc: Midwest, USA	Hey OldandWorn, Yeah, my benzo withdrawel was hell. I cold-turkeyed from 6mg of Xanax a day down to nothing... It took about 3-4 weeks to completely get over the withdrawel part of it. The worst was the first 1-2 weeks. My opiate withdrawel at least only lasted about 4-5 days... but the benzo withdrawel lasted almost a month!! I would suggest a gentle taper, because while I did cold-turkey it, I was under the supervision of a doctor at the time (it was my choice to cold-turkey, he offered to taper but I didn't want to taper for a couple months). But you can get seizures and what not from Benzo withdrawel!! It's hard stuff to get off of. Good luck dnj, it's going to be really hard, but in the long-run you are going to be so happy you did it $\:\)$ Edited by latus0514 (07/26/08 01:51 PM)
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#736217 - 07/26/08 02:00 PM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: latus0514]
Oxy80 Oxy80 GRAND Pooh-Bah Registered: 03/30/08 Posts: 1655	I regularly take a break from narcotics. I never really gave it a though to which is the best way to stop. I simply just stop taking them and that's that. Sure it's not the most comfortable situation on earth, but to me it's mind over matter. Pain itself isn't lethal, it won't kill you. But at the same time, it's interesting to read everyones tips to make things a little more tolerable. _________________________ Vote on the amount of political Posts at DrugBuyers.com: http://www.drugbuyers.com/freeboard/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=804645#Post804645
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#737530 - 07/29/08 07:47 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: Oxy80]
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	Originally Posted By: Oxy80 I regularly take a break from narcotics. I never really gave it a though to which is the best way to stop. I simply just stop taking them and that's that. Sure it's not the most comfortable situation on earth, but to me it's mind over matter. Pain itself isn't lethal, it won't kill you. But at the same time, it's interesting to read everyones tips to make things a little more tolerable. You are a very strong person. I know the power of the mind is amazing and have watched people get through things in ways I can't imagine. I am nonfuncitonal in withdrawal. In my case, I think the chemically-caused depression is almost paralyzing, and it takes a long time for anti-d's to help. But thanks for your input. It's always good to hear, to paraphrase, it's not that bad. When it comes to physical discomfort and pain, I do have a tendency to expect the worst and find that it's usually not as bad as I expected. Except for childbirth LOL :0 But I'm still not convinced that pain tolerance is a controllable thing. I just think people's brains experience it differently, just like most other things in life are different from one to the other. Great discussion though. My thanks to all of you.
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#737560 - 07/29/08 08:41 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: dnj]
charisma01 charisma01 Threadhead Registered: 09/21/04 Posts: 934 Loc: California	I'm on Day 2 of a break right now. I wish there were a magic cure. For me, staying busy is the best thing for it, although it can be hard when your tired and achy and making numerous trips to the bathroom. The only thing I use to ease the WD is a benzo at night for sleep. It helps a great deal. Even if I end up tossing and turning, I just don't care that much..lol. Also, I believe having a good diet BEFORE going into WD is important as to how your body will react to it and recover. I'm on a pretty low dose, so my WD is probably nothing compared to some of the others. But I will say, it hurt in a bad way yesterday. Today.....some backpain and fatigue (probably left over from the overnight benzo), and I imagine some more 'bathroom' issues will show up...but other than that, not all that horrible. What's interesting is every time seems to be different. Some times it was not bad at all, other times torture. For me, in the summer it's 10 times worse, I think because of the heat and sweating it all out so fast. I wish you luck...
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#737626 - 07/29/08 10:19 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: charisma01]
martind martind Veteran Registered: 05/01/08 Posts: 672	Originally Posted By: charisma01 I'm on Day 2 of a break right now. I wish there were a magic cure. For me, staying busy is the best thing for it, although it can be hard when your tired and achy and making numerous trips to the bathroom. The only thing I use to ease the WD is a benzo at night for sleep. It helps a great deal. Even if I end up tossing and turning, I just don't care that much..lol. Also, I believe having a good diet BEFORE going into WD is important as to how your body will react to it and recover. I'm on a pretty low dose, so my WD is probably nothing compared to some of the others. But I will say, it hurt in a bad way yesterday. Today.....some backpain and fatigue (probably left over from the overnight benzo), and I imagine some more 'bathroom' issues will show up...but other than that, not all that horrible. What's interesting is every time seems to be different. Some times it was not bad at all, other times torture. For me, in the summer it's 10 times worse, I think because of the heat and sweating it all out so fast. I wish you luck... I think most will find that each new withdrawal experienced over time will get progressively worse. In addition, the actual lowered tolerance because of "vacations" from opiate use will decrease markedly over time. You will most likely return to your previous dosages quicker and quicker. There is a wealth of information available describing the medical science behind this with a focus on the physiology of increased opiate receptor site activity.
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#737663 - 07/29/08 11:23 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: martind]
charisma01 charisma01 Threadhead Registered: 09/21/04 Posts: 934 Loc: California	Hmm, yes, I have noticed this with the dosage going right back to where I was. Of course, not a good thing!! Luckily it's been several years and I am still at about 35mg. Of course some days, I cheat....but not too often. Right now the aches are just killing and the feeling of "unclean" (exterior-body-wise). I hate that I suppose the unclean feeling comes from the skin being so numb for so long??
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#737667 - 07/29/08 11:33 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: charisma01]
martind martind Veteran Registered: 05/01/08 Posts: 672	Originally Posted By: charisma01 Hmm, yes, I have noticed this with the dosage going right back to where I was. Of course, not a good thing!! Luckily it's been several years and I am still at about 35mg. Of course some days, I cheat....but not too often. Right now the aches are just killing and the feeling of "unclean" (exterior-body-wise). I hate that I suppose the unclean feeling comes from the skin being so numb for so long?? "Unclean" is an interesting way to describe this effect of withdrawal syndrome. I've heard creepy/crawly, scratchy, too big for my skin, etc. All pretty much the same thing. Your opiate receptors are very angry they are not being fed. Thus, the rebound aches and pains. I've never really understood why people persist in trying the "vacations." Counter-intuitive.
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#737669 - 07/29/08 11:36 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: martind]
charisma01 charisma01 Threadhead Registered: 09/21/04 Posts: 934 Loc: California	This is not a choice vacation. Long story. On a good note, at least the goose bumps have gone away. I appreciate your imput.
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#737676 - 07/29/08 11:44 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: charisma01]
mentoramy05 mentoramy05 GRAND Pooh-Bah Registered: 02/15/06 Posts: 2057 Loc: In your Eyes	I too am thinking about doing the same as you.....try to anyways....at least go down on the daily use of hydros. Question though.....it has been quite a while since I have went without opiates in my system, so if I choose to quit a day or two (or three) would I then have to take less to achieve the same effect? Like now, I take 1 10mg hydro and most times I have to take 1/2 more to relieve the pain (so basically 15mgs) hydro.....so if one chooses to take a few days "break", will less be needed to acheive the "problem" BTW, I may supplement with some Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) I have on hand, for the few days I stop the hydros. Edited by mentoramy05 (07/29/08 11:45 AM) _________________________ The only thing worth stealing, in life, is a kiss from a sleeping child. ALWAYS Treat others the way YOU want to be treated
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#737679 - 07/29/08 11:53 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: mentoramy05]
Dennit Dennit Pooh-Bah Registered: 01/14/08 Posts: 1446	Amy - if you take a break your tolerance will go down and you will be able to use less to achieve help with your pain. It won't last long unfortunately. charisma01- in my experience, submerging my body in a hot bath instantly erased all uncomfortable symptoms. I would just lay there and close my eyes. The water has to be hot. On bad days (like day 4 & 5) I had several of these baths a day. I think it helped me more than anything else. p.s. no work, like washing your hair, etc. I would just lay there and sometimes read something inspirational.... candles and incense.... martin - Quote: I've never really understood why people persist in trying the "vacations." Counter-intuitive. For tolerance issues.
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#737680 - 07/29/08 11:54 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: Dennit]
mentoramy05 mentoramy05 GRAND Pooh-Bah Registered: 02/15/06 Posts: 2057 Loc: In your Eyes	You may not feel like doing this, but running/jogging/etc. helps out alot because it keeps your endorphins "kicking" _________________________ The only thing worth stealing, in life, is a kiss from a sleeping child. ALWAYS Treat others the way YOU want to be treated
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#737689 - 07/29/08 12:17 PM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: Dennit]
martind martind Veteran Registered: 05/01/08 Posts: 672	Originally Posted By: Dennit Amy - if you take a break your tolerance will go down and you will be able to use less to achieve help with your pain. It won't last long unfortunately. charisma01- in my experience, submerging my body in a hot bath instantly erased all uncomfortable symptoms. I would just lay there and close my eyes. The water has to be hot. On bad days (like day 4 & 5) I had several of these baths a day. I think it helped me more than anything else. p.s. no work, like washing your hair, etc. I would just lay there and sometimes read something inspirational.... candles and incense.... martin - Quote: I've never really understood why people persist in trying the "vacations." Counter-intuitive. For tolerance issues. But the reduction in tolerance is so short-lived it doesn't seem worth it for the pain of withdrawals. Especially if this is done on a regular basis. I understand running out of your meds but don't see the cost/benefit pay-off with these vacations.
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#737704 - 07/29/08 12:36 PM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: martind]
Dennit Dennit Pooh-Bah Registered: 01/14/08 Posts: 1446	Yes, you're right that it is short lived. It's almost like your brain retains a memory of the amount where dependence starts. I found that after a few years of taking 10mg. 4X a day it didn't work anymore. I was feeling w/d symptoms after only 2 hours whereas before it was 4 hours. At this point I had to make a decision of either taking more or taking less. Taking more was not an option, not only because of double-dipping but where does it end? I think this is how some people end up taking 300+ mg. a day. I chose to take less and went on a one month vacation. As you said, it didn't last long and I was back to having the same problem. I have read of a few people who took vacations from the very start so as to never develop a tolerance. Of course, this would be ideal. This is what I want for myself. I stopped last November (hydro) and I'm not going to take any until I'm sure my body doesn't remember it anymore. Then, I will try to take it only as needed and hopefully not develop any tolerance.
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#738009 - 07/30/08 05:10 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: martind]
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	[/quote]All pretty much the same thing. Your opiate receptors are very angry they are not being fed. Thus, the rebound aches and pains. I've never really understood why people persist in trying the "vacations." Counter-intuitive. [/quote] Part of it for me right now is that I am at the limit of hydro as far as the acetaminophen, and liver problems are a huge issue for me. I need to give it a break from that. I suppose there are other meds out there that would provide the same relief without the acetaminophen but I have had the best luck so far keeping my symptoms under control with it. I'm sure there are alternatives; this is just where I am right now.
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#738010 - 07/30/08 05:14 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: Dennit]
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	Originally Posted By: Dennit Yes, you're right that it is short lived. It's almost like your brain retains a memory of the amount where dependence starts. I found that after a few years of taking 10mg. 4X a day it didn't work anymore. I was feeling w/d symptoms after only 2 hours whereas before it was 4 hours. At this point I had to make a decision of either taking more or taking less. Taking more was not an option, not only because of double-dipping but where does it end? I think this is how some people end up taking 300+ mg. a day. I chose to take less and went on a one month vacation. As you said, it didn't last long and I was back to having the same problem. I have read of a few people who took vacations from the very start so as to never develop a tolerance. Of course, this would be ideal. This is what I want for myself. I stopped last November (hydro) and I'm not going to take any until I'm sure my body doesn't remember it anymore. Then, I will try to take it only as needed and hopefully not develop any tolerance. I think doing it from the very start would have been the way to go but not an option for us anymore. I have been told that no matter how long you take a break, you will return to your previous tolerance level in short order. Your brain has changed. That is how it works with alcohol. Doesn't take long for an alcoholic to be right back up to his previous intake level after being sober even for a long time. It'll all work out. At least we're aware of it.
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#738017 - 07/30/08 05:52 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: dnj]
geckogecko geckogecko Veteran Registered: 03/03/02 Posts: 601 Loc: Just moved north of NYC b/c of...	I found that the main reason I kicked all opiates years ago was because I was in WDs about half the time. Well, maybe not half, but quite often, and not usually by choice. Running out of meds was a constant issue (brought me to this site) and yet I was still very tolerant no matter how often I withdrew. Crashing cold turkey on a regular basis creates further problems as well--psychologically, it can make you a moody, anxious, depressed wreck. I thought it was important to take plenty of Loperamide (Immodium). You usually have to take far more than the suggested dosage, but the med has few side-effects and is not really dangerous so it's safe to take a bunch to get you through WDs. I would suggest buying the liquid, because the little pills are really hard to get out of those darned tiny plastic cases--it can drive you crazy trying to open them. Good luck.
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#738027 - 07/30/08 06:12 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: Dennit]
rontology rontology Old Hand Registered: 01/06/07 Posts: 411	300mg in a day? I overdosed on saturday taking way less than that! I am done with all of this and went cold turkey 50 hours ago. I can barely walk my back is so bad right now! I of course developed a tolerance to this poison and was of course using it for more than my back problems. The withdrawals are not bad at all except for trying to go to sleep and I have taken sleeping pills both nights and slept for 8 hours both nights! (6x15mg Temazepam last night maybe too many and goodbye rontology?) I want to ask anyone to please pray for me and God bless each and every one of you.
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#738059 - 07/30/08 07:44 AM Re: Best way to take an opiate break?? [Re: rontology]
dnj dnj Board Addict Registered: 03/11/07 Posts: 385	Originally Posted By: rontology 300mg in a day? I overdosed on saturday taking way less than that! I am done with all of this and went cold turkey 50 hours ago. I can barely walk my back is so bad right now! I of course developed a tolerance to this poison and was of course using it for more than my back problems. The withdrawals are not bad at all except for trying to go to sleep and I have taken sleeping pills both nights and slept for 8 hours both nights! (6x15mg Temazepam last night maybe too many and goodbye rontology?) I want to ask anyone to please pray for me and God bless each and every one of you. You've got it, rontology!! Prayers are coming your way. I understand what you are going through, truly do. Did you overdose on the hydro itself, or liver toxicity from the tylenol in it? Either way, I am glad you are safe. Hang in there, it will get better, and then maybe you can begin again to find different avenues for your back pain. It is truly a catch 22 for people in pain who then end up addicted. Hang in there!! And look our way for support!
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#738107 - 07/30/08 09:16 AM