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#730793 - 07/18/08 07:07 PM would you be upset with a doctor for this?
pidge0605 Offline
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 369
Today I had a follow up appointment with a doctor after having a complete physical a few weeks ago
(blood test, urine test, etc)

He was reading off the results of the tests, and he says
"negative for all street drugs" (he than rattled off the list of drugs)

I said what??? You didn't tell me you were testing for street drugs
(I'm a 47 yr old woman who takes care of a very sick husband, I in no way look like a drug addict)

The doctor than says, what's the big deal, you tested negative
the big deal, is that I was not told you were going to do a drug test, the papers I signed were just for a normal work up (no where on the copy of the paper I signed, does it say it was a drug test)

I lost all trust in this doctor now, and he doesn't understand my point, I told him I would agree to even one of those hair tests, but I want to be asked before the test is given, I feel it's my right as a patient, to know exactly what the doctor is doing, and what tests are being done on me

Am I over reacting? If I am signing a paper giving the doctor the ok to do the tests, shouldn't all the tests that are being done, be on that paper?
thanks!

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#730802 - 07/18/08 07:18 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
MisfitToy Offline
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Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 613
Loc: my own sweet time
I think it's pretty standard nowadays. I know that, if you go to the hospital emergency room, they do a drug screen most (if not all) of the time.
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#730806 - 07/18/08 07:21 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
nitemoon Offline

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Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1239
Loc: AL
I would probably be upset. I have to go to an outside lab to have my tests run, so I can look at the paperwork and see what tests they are running since each one has to be checked off. I have never been drug tested (except for employment) to my knowledge, not even when I was going to a pain clinic.

I use to be really upset when they would test me for HIV. That use to really get to me. It made me think that they thought I was somehow trashy.

I don't really know what you should do. I think it was wrong for the doctor to test you for street drugs. I would ask him if this is a standard practice of his. Is he charging your insurance company for a drug screen?? Something doesn't seem right.
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I try to every night, all in vain... in vain.

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#730808 - 07/18/08 07:25 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: nitemoon]
pidge0605 Offline
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 369
thank you for the replies
I just feel really uncomfortable with this doctor now, and I think I will find a new one
Trust is really important to me, and like I said, I have nothing to hide, but I can't trust him anymore

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#730846 - 07/18/08 08:57 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
PrivateRealm Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
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Many times this is standard. Many times this is done with a urine sample especially in the ER. It's often included in the consent for treatment as knowing what a patient is or is not doing can affect the course of treatment.
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#730848 - 07/18/08 09:04 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: PrivateRealm]
pidge0605 Offline
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 369
I didn't give my consent, and again, I don't mind taking drug tests, (I don't even drink alcohol) but I just like to know what they are doing

When I used to have to take a urine test for my old job, while they never had to tell us when the test will be, they had to tell us everything that we were being tested for.

Maybe I am just being silly, but I feel really weird about this for some reason, almost like I was being accused of doing something wrong

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#730858 - 07/18/08 09:29 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
ponytail Offline
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Registered: 02/23/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Texas
I have never heard of such a thing!!! I would think a Dr. would have to ask for permission to run a drug test for street drugs. WHY!!!!!!!! It would cost him to do it and for what result? This makes no sense. Dr. hardly ever give out narcitic meds anymore, at least in my town. They are afraid I guess.

I could see if a person was being admitted in the hospital and WILL ABSOLUTELY need to see what is in your system but apart from that............
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#730891 - 07/18/08 10:36 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: ponytail]
pidge0605 Offline
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 369
That's exactly what I thought! I wasn't sick or anything, just a regular check up....and believe me, I am a normal looking person
(On the VIP side of this board, my picture is posted along with my id, which is pidge0605, and you can see, I am just a normal looking person!)

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#730933 - 07/19/08 01:07 AM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
SoHoTribeca Offline

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Registered: 05/20/06
Posts: 1364
Loc: east of eden
Even if he ran this as a standard part of the blood work he orders, his phrasing is ridiculous and who wouldn't be offended? I also would not return to his office, for many reasons like if he can't just ask you what meds you take, why would you trust him? It's true that an ER may run this screening test if they suspect something, but that's to rule out any problems you're presenting to the hospital with as secondary to drug abuse, overdose, drug seeking, frequent "flyers". I think you may be more angry that he didn't ask and let it go, but being a member of DB, possibly you did ask for a medication that led him to his thinking. He's still rude.
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#730955 - 07/19/08 04:56 AM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
unizee Offline
Member


Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 180
I think your moral outrage is ridiculous. Your doctor treats the entire person, and part of any good doctor patient relationship is being open about what meds, including street drugs, you might use. He's not making a judgment; he needs the entire picture to properly treat you, his patient. Get over yourself and be thankful you've got a doctor who is concerned enough to realize that patients don't always tell the truth when it comes to self-medicating.
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#731032 - 07/19/08 08:55 AM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: unizee]
barelythere Offline
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Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1510
I'd be outraged. When I was in my late teens and seeing a doctor for an ailment, he tested me for gonnorrhea [[sp?]] There was no indication that I would have an STD. I was billed for this nonsensical test. Well my folks were since I was on their insurance. So they got the bill. Imagine my embarrassment and astonishment. Never went back to that doctor.

Doctors should tell you exactly what they are testing you for. After all it is your body, and your insurance--that you pay for--. Would you bring your car in for a tune up and told after the fact that they rebuilt your engine? Of course not. ER or hospital admissions are one thing. Routine tests are completely different.

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#731052 - 07/19/08 09:30 AM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: barelythere]
TheMoodyBlue Offline
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Registered: 11/17/04
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 Quote:
I think your moral outrage is ridiculous. Your doctor treats the entire person, and part of any good doctor patient relationship is being open about what meds, including street drugs, you might use. He's not making a judgment; he needs the entire picture to properly treat you, his patient. Get over yourself and be thankful you've got a doctor who is concerned enough to realize that patients don't always tell the truth when it comes to self-medicating.


Unizee, you are completely wrong about this one in what you said above. This is actually a big problem. The issue is one of informed consent. Despite all of their legalese and documents that they say you sign and agree to let them pretty much do what ever they want, ethically (and legally for MD's) informed consent is not an option - it is REQUIRED - before tests are run, procedures are conducted or treatments are given. What this doctor did is unfathomable, unless pidge0605 had a chronic pain contract in which pidge0605 agreed to random testing, or another type document giving prior informed consent for this type of thing. Otherwise it is outside the normal and customary practice of medicine. Period. It is unethical at best, much more at worst.

Pidge0605, I would talk directly to him and do so in terms of informed consent, and tell him the reason you are upset is that you think that you never gave any consent for any drug testing. In my view, this is very troubling, although I'm sure that DEA would love the idea and is probably trying to figure out a way to require this so that they can practice some more medicine without a license.
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#731183 - 07/19/08 01:50 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: TheMoodyBlue]
q827 Offline
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I would sue this doctor for malpractice and/or report him to the clinic administrator.
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#731192 - 07/19/08 01:58 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: q827]
martind Offline
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Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 671
 Originally Posted By: q827
I would sue this doctor for malpractice and/or report him to the clinic administrator.


And people wonder why healthcare is so expensive.

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#731205 - 07/19/08 02:24 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
70727487 Offline
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Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 260
" What's the big deal" are yo kidding me ? He did that with out your knowledge or informed consent ! Yes, of course in an emergency situatiion for diagnostic purposes I can understand but for a routine physical.....NO ! He could have asked about recreational drug use. I would call this guy a quack and never go back IMHOP.
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#731211 - 07/19/08 02:28 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: 70727487]
unizee Offline
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Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 180
Right, because patients are always so honest about recreational drug use.
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#731223 - 07/19/08 02:40 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: pidge0605]
Ruggie Offline
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Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 12354
Loc: Right Here
You have every right to know exactly what tests are being done. At least it used to be the doctors duty to tell the patient exactly what they were doing and exactly what tests they were preforming and have the patients consent.

So if you never gave consent for these types of tests, or signed anything when you started seeing this doctor, then what he did was wrong and I am sure he will also charge you for those tests. If I were you I would make him eat the cost of the tests that you did not ask for, and that he did not inform you he was taking.


I am going to look into this on the medical boards site in your state and see if anything has changed. If I come up with anything pertaining to this happening I will let you know pidge.
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#731229 - 07/19/08 02:55 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: 70727487]
70727487 Offline
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Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 260
 Originally Posted By: 70727487
" What's the big deal" are yo kidding me ? He did that with out your knowledge or informed consent ! Yes, of course in an emergency situatiion for diagnostic purposes I can understand but for a routine physical.....NO ! He could have asked about recreational drug use. I would call this guy a quack and never go back IMHOP.
The developement of trust from the patient for their Dr. is so vital in a Dr. and patient relationship., I would never have trust for a physcian who did that to me without my knowledge. IMHOP.....should he wish to order drug testing because of contraindications , he should still inform you .


Edited by 70727487 (07/19/08 02:59 PM)
Edit Reason: addition
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#731240 - 07/19/08 03:30 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: 70727487]
unizee Offline
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Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 180
Okay, I'll concede your point with the addendum to your post. However, doctor-patient trust is a two-way street. How many people here are honest with their primary care physicians about ordering from the Internet? How many people are absolutely honest with "how much alcohol do you drink?" Doctors are taught to take that answer and multiply it by two. If your doctor has told you that he won't prescribe benzos or diet pills because he doesn't feel that they're safe in your situation, or that you don't need #120 norcos for that occasional gout flare-up, are you going to tell him that you order it off the Internet? Heck no.

I will concede this point: At the very first visit, when seeing the doctor for the first time, it wouldn't be wrong for him to have you sign something that says, "a comprehensive physical may include bloodwork that will include a drug tox screen as a matter of course for your continued health monitoring" or something to that effect. In that case, you have the choice of saying "no thanks" and then you can find a doc that you can lie to about your recreational drug use.

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#731245 - 07/19/08 03:47 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: unizee]
stevo1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1585
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 Originally Posted By: unizee
I think your moral outrage is ridiculous. Your doctor treats the entire person, and part of any good doctor patient relationship is being open about what meds, including street drugs, you might use. He's not making a judgment; he needs the entire picture to properly treat you, his patient. Get over yourself and be thankful you've got a doctor who is concerned enough to realize that patients don't always tell the truth when it comes to self-medicating.


This Is A big deal!!! This is a total Violation of the Patients Rights!!! This Doc needs to Understand He Violated this Patient's Right!!!!... and if that means a letter from an Attorney ....So be it!!!!! And I am not the Kinda person to Yell Sue!! \:o \:o \:o I would be Pissed!!!
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#731250 - 07/19/08 03:56 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: stevo1]
unizee Offline
Member


Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 180
Then educate me. I'm quite serious here -- exactly what rights were violated? Are drug tox screens protected in the same way that HIV tests are when they are conducted by a personal physician as part of a routine physical? I'm not being a smart aleck, I'm honestly asking. Take this opportunity to inform me if in fact I'm way off base and a violation of a civil right occurred.

Nevertheless, I stand by my statements that a doctor has every right to know that his patient is telling him the truth about drug and alcohol usage. If that means informed consent regarding testing up front upon the very first visit, then so be it.

I'm being sincere. Enlighten me with facts.

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#731261 - 07/19/08 04:18 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: martind]
barelythere Offline
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Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1510
Performing needless tests contributes to the cost as well.
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#731263 - 07/19/08 04:20 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: unizee]
barelythere Offline
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Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1510
 Originally Posted By: unizee
Then educate me. I'm quite serious here -- exactly what rights were violated? Are drug tox screens protected in the same way that HIV tests are when they are conducted by a personal physician as part of a routine physical? I'm not being a smart aleck, I'm honestly asking. Take this opportunity to inform me if in fact I'm way off base and a violation of a civil right occurred.

Nevertheless, I stand by my statements that a doctor has every right to know that his patient is telling him the truth about drug and alcohol usage. If that means informed consent regarding testing up front upon the very first visit, then so be it.

I'm being sincere. Enlighten me with facts.


STD, TB, tox screens are sensitive. Why does my PM doc inform me in writing up front about this? Why, when I went to the ER did they tell me twice I would be tox screened?
They also asked for permission--twice.

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#731281 - 07/19/08 04:58 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: TheMoodyBlue]
70727487 Offline
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Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 260
TheMoodyBlue, You are right 100%. This has nothing to do with morality , It is the law of the land and it is called " The Patient Bill Of Rights ". The right to informed consent in all treatment , test and decisions in involved in their care,

Edited by 70727487 (07/19/08 04:58 PM)
Edit Reason: omission
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#731285 - 07/19/08 05:02 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: 70727487]
unizee Offline
Member


Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 180
Okay. Thank you.
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#731335 - 07/19/08 06:57 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: unizee]
mmyp Offline

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Registered: 02/20/06
Posts: 1481
My opinion is that the doctors should tell you what they are testing for. I feel from personal experiences that doctors trust patients less these days. I in turn from the way I been treated trust doctors less these days. Up until recently I never heard of a doctor telling a patient to get out of their practice... or discharging a patient from his care cause he didn't like him or her. Once upon a time not to long ago we were taught as medical professionals to treat all patients the same care. Regardless if we liked them or not. It is part of being a professional. My last two visits with new internists I shared what meds helped me. I got the most ridiculous and horrible treatment from these so callled professionals. They had internal lab ordering from their computers so I did not see right away what was on them. I did wait and call the lab to find out tox screens on them I dod not go back
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#731360 - 07/19/08 07:48 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: mmyp]
Repteur Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 2837
Loc: Suburban Chicago (Southwest)
If the guy will prescribe i don't care what test he runs.
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#731385 - 07/19/08 08:17 PM Re: would you be upset with a doctor for this? [Re: mmyp]
bellavista44 Offline
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Registered: 07/29/06
Posts: 682
The test given is not par