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#726173 - 07/09/08 10:49 PM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: B4iGO]
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darkmantis
Board Addict
Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 397
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Fred,
any chance of getting a different doctor? I wouldn't trust a doctor who is young. They are new to the field and if he's a DO, most likely he's going to have to you withdrawl. I would definitely seek out a pain management program if you truly have legit pain and medical records showing that you have long term, chronic pain.
How long have you been using hydro? Detoxing from hydro at any amount depends on how long you have been on it as well as the dosage. 50 mgs to me, is a lot, considering I usually take 1 1/2 to 2 for severe migraines and cronic neck pain. I would suggest, as the others suggested alrady, to stretch the time that you ingest hydro farther apart. For instance, when you wake up in the morning take 10 mgs of hydro and 2 hours later take a Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars). You should get about 5 hours of pain relief from that, then take another 10 and if your pain is controlled try to stretch out another 4 hours of no-hydro. Finally, I don't know what time you go to bed, but for instance, I go to bed later, so I won't take anything after 8pm, but usually nothing after 6pm. That should get you under 30mgs a day, and if you start breaking your 10s in half towards the evening time, you'll end up using less and less.
Also, you can take up to 2 - 4 trams a day while reducing your dosage in hydro. Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) is great to potentiate hydro but at the same time, if you take too much, you can keep yourself from falling asleep at night, so don't take any Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) after 6 pm also (8pm on the hydro at the latest).
Either way, I would still seek other advice from a different doctor about withdrawing. It seems with all of the dea crack downs and new doctors entering the field, a lot of them will advise you to get off of the pain meds because they don't want to risk their license or get sued by you.
I have had to reduce hydro into tram during shortages without any sides from the hydro. If you are still getting withdrawls from the hydro you might have to increase your Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) to help you out, but just don't go over 400mgs. The most I have ever gone is 300mgs during a bad spell in a lot of pain, etc. But never usually over 200mgs. Hope this helps and keep us informed of your progress. Good luck 
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#726409 - 07/10/08 12:23 PM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: martind]
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jehza1
Veteran
Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 534
Loc: Southwest US
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I am inclined to agree with martind, as that is what worked for me (cold turkey). My "intake" was a bit heavier and of a different substance, so I had to take a week off to detox, and did not do so without the assistance of blood pressure medication (Catapres), Librium, and a short round of sleeping pills ( and three meetings a day, once I cold physically get out and about again-actually I don't think I started this until the very end of my detox). I won't lie; it was pretty terrible stuff, but I think if I would have "tapered" I would have never gotten off the stuff, as I was truly addicted, and if I would have been able to moderate my usage, I wouldn't have been in the boat that I was in, so to speak.
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.
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#726533 - 07/10/08 03:44 PM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: richsutter]
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slepinosa65
Veteran
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 504
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Suboxone can be excellant if it used for no more than two weeks, and doses are kept below 2mg per day, and begin tapering down from there. But most likely, doctors will put you on way to much, keep you on it for way to long, and you will end up with a much bigger problem. The only thing doctors know about using this drug comes from the company that makes it, and they exaggerate, and sometimes out and out lie about the nature of the med. Therefore, even the doctors don't understand it.
An example, is the belief that you have to be in full withdrawals before taking it. This is not true for someone who is only taking 50 to 100mgs. of hydro per day, granted you take a reasonable dose of sub i.e. about 1mg. as opposed to the 4 or 8mg the doctor will believe you need.
However, I think you will have an easier time just avoiding the whole suboxone ordeal, given your level of use.
Also, keep in mind, most people tend to exaggerate WDs. It really shouldn't be that big of deal (though it true the length of time you have been using is a factor--but at your use it will still be easy). So I would just go for it. Of course, this does not solve your underlying pain issue, which I know nothing about.
Good luck, you can do it.
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#726536 - 07/10/08 03:53 PM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: richsutter]
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slepinosa65
Veteran
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 504
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Hi Fred,
I was also taking 150 norcos per month, for 5 years. I went onto suboxone 1/2 tablet daily, there was a little discomfort at first (mild aches & some anxiety for a couple days) but I just threw myself into my work and after a week I felt fine, i tapered myself to 1/4 tablet daily after two weeks and stopped in two more weeks four weeks total and no noticeable withdrawals. That was so much better than when I came off of them before. I should mention that I had to take ambien 2-3 times a week to sleep. Now that I am off pain meds I am still taking Ambien, so ... so what , don't think it was the suboxone. The thing is with sub you have to be in full blown withdrawal to take it the first dose. No meds for 24 hours, man I was wrecked and the sub. fixed me within 20 minutes.
I have heard other say that there were side effects, but can one really say what is the sub. and what is the effects of going off a long term treatment?? I did notice that I had no sex drive , but again...getting off meds or suboxone?? how can I be sure.
The hydro is completely gone from system in less than a week. It is a medical fact that sub kills your libido (so do all opiates to some extent) and lower yours testosterone after a few months, along with other side effects. You are lucky that you were smart enough not to listen to your doctor. Many of the side effects are a result of the unecessarilly high doses people are put on.
How many milligrams did your doctor recommend you take?
At 50mg of hydro a day, 0.5mg a day would be more than enough to totally eliminate withdrawal systems in the average person.
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#726849 - 07/11/08 09:47 AM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: Fred]
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Dennit
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 1446
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Dear Fred,
I was taking exactly the same amount of hydro and tram for the same amount of time as you. I stopped last April and have not had a hydro since then.
I have one VERY important advice for you!! Stop the tram/Ultram FIRST!! It will be easy while you are still taking hydro. I wish I had done it that way. During the years that I was taking both, whenever I felt w/d's I always assumed it was from the hydro. I now realize it was mostly the tram. Tram is a misunderstood and underestimated drug and very painful to get off of. I have not taken any hydro since last April but I cannot stop taking tram. as the withdrawals are too damn painful.
When I was taking hydro, I only took one or two trams a day. Now I have to take 4-5 a day to avoid withdrawals. I might have to start taking hydro again just to get off the trams and then get off the hydro as I know I can do that. If you stop taking trams NOW, you will avoid the hell I'm in. I hope you will take this advice.
p.s. I used Kratom for a week when stopping hydro (I didn't taper first) and it did help with the worst of the w/d's but it did nothing for the tram w/d's. I told myself "one thing at a time" so I kept taking trams during this time. I now wish I had quit the trams first before I started to quit hydro.
I also agree that the amount of hydro you are on is too small to mess with suboxone. You can do it if I can .... just stop the trams first!! Good luck to you! Send me a pm if I can be of further help.
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#726917 - 07/11/08 11:51 AM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: Dennit]
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PeterGregg
Stranger
Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 12
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Hello!
I just felt a need to respond to a comment that was made about withdrawal problems being “exaggerated.” With all due respect to the person who posted that, I would like to give a first-hand account of the problem.
If a person is sick with a flu, which is much like the sickness one gets from withdrawal, there are two things that will likely happen. First, you can take over-the-counter flu medicine that may or may not decrease the severity of the symptoms. Second, we already know that there is no actual cure, and we have to just ride it out.
However, with withdrawal, there is a much bigger problem, and that is the knowledge that a cure is just a swallow away. The psychological pressure of that is at least as bad as the sickness. Probably worse. Why go through it if a pill will have you back to normal in less than an hour?
Considering that issue, I do not think that withdrawal issues are exaggerated. It’s like the worst flu you can imagine getting and it can drive you nuts thinking that you have a solution within grasp, but can’t use it.
Tapering worked for me. Maybe it can’t work for everyone, but I highly recommend trying it if you want to end the pill intake.
Good luck, Fred. I know that you can do it because I could, and I didn’t have a whole lot of confidence that I could. Write out you plan and stick to it. Expect a few weeks of feeling non-perfect, but you won’t be really sick. Just a little uneasy. It’s worth it.
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#726935 - 07/11/08 12:35 PM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: Dennit]
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littlered363
Banned. Shill and scammer. Con artist
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1113
Loc: somewhere over the rainbow
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Dennit, I am also VERY dependant on tramadols. From first hand experience I have got some bad news for you. While Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) does indeed help hydro withdrawals TREMENDOUSLY, it doesnt work the other way around. In other words, hydrocodone does not help much with Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) withdrawals. I have heard many people say this, and have found it to be very true.
Maybe you are different, and I do hope that you will be able to find something that actually does help with tram withdrawals, but I have yet to find anything. I am currently weaning myself off of these horrible evil little pills, and am having a hell of a time.
There is a thread in this category about hydro/Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) cross tolerance or something to that effect that has more info on it explaining why Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) has such bad withdrawals. Hydro withdrawals are a piece of cake compared to it.
I hope that someone will can find something to help with it, as I would be more than willing to try anything that would help. I never thought that I would let a substance control my life, until tram came into the picture. It is funny because I dont "want" the drug mentally, I have to take it physically or I seriously cannot do anything without it.
Anyway, just thought Id throw that in there for you. I used to tell people all of the time to use Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) for hydro withdrawals, but now am reluctant to do so. If I do I now always add that Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) is just as addicting as hydro so please be careful.
Anyway, good luck to all of you that are trying to get off of any drug. I know it is tough, I have done it a few times. This board is a great place to find any answers to any questions you may have, or just a little assurance that everything will be okay in the end. If anyone needs any advice from me, as I have been through the whole hydro withdrawals a few times too many, then please dont hesitate to ask.
Also wanted to add something else, I still take hydrocodone, but I am no longer dependant on it as I once was. I wouldnt necessarily say I was addicted to it, but I definetely was not leading the life I once imagined I would. Anyway, to make a loooong story short I have found a way to STILL take the hydro for pain as needed and not be dependant on it. It has taken some experimenting, and going through withdrawals, but I finally got it down.
If anyone has any questions or anything please dont hesitate to ask, either in a post or PM, I am happy to help. Again, good luck to all!
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#727067 - 07/11/08 07:34 PM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: PeterGregg]
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slepinosa65
Veteran
Registered: 03/18/04
Posts: 504
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Hello!
I just felt a need to respond to a comment that was made about withdrawal problems being “exaggerated.” With all due respect to the person who posted that, I would like to give a first-hand account of the problem.
If a person is sick with a flu, which is much like the sickness one gets from withdrawal, there are two things that will likely happen. First, you can take over-the-counter flu medicine that may or may not decrease the severity of the symptoms. Second, we already know that there is no actual cure, and we have to just ride it out.
However, with withdrawal, there is a much bigger problem, and that is the knowledge that a cure is just a swallow away. The psychological pressure of that is at least as bad as the sickness. Probably worse. Why go through it if a pill will have you back to normal in less than an hour?
Considering that issue, I do not think that withdrawal issues are exaggerated. It’s like the worst flu you can imagine getting and it can drive you nuts thinking that you have a solution within grasp, but can’t use it.
Tapering worked for me. Maybe it can’t work for everyone, but I highly recommend trying it if you want to end the pill intake.
Good luck, Fred. I know that you can do it because I could, and I didn’t have a whole lot of confidence that I could. Write out you plan and stick to it. Expect a few weeks of feeling non-perfect, but you won’t be really sick. Just a little uneasy. It’s worth it.
This is what I mean by exaggeration. Fred, don't worry. Though there is a psychological component to WD, it is no where near the "worst flu you could imagine." Actually, I would bet money, that you do not even vomit once from coming off 50mg. cold turkey. I have come off of over 150mg. of hydro cold turkey, on more than one occasion, and have never even puked once. Also, when I cold turkeyed, I did it knowing that I had a bottle of norco in my desk drawer just in case it got to bad, but it didn't need it (that is until about a month later when the depression and bordom got to be to much, and I needed to get some work done). As for acute physical WDs, I just felt crappy for about 3 to 4 days. It was far from pleasant, but it wasn't "hell" or any of the other things people describe.
At least the flu makes people puke. You will most likely only feel mildly unpleasant for a couple of days.
Edited by slepinosa65 (07/11/08 07:41 PM)
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#727123 - 07/12/08 01:08 AM
Re: Norco Addiction
[Re: Dennit]
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darkmantis
Board Addict
Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 397
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I was taking tram for over 6 months and switch cold turkey over to hydro 2xs a day and I never felt any w/ds except for mild depression for 2 days. In my experience, hydro will help out with the w/ds, but we have to remember that Tramadol (Click here for TramadolX180tabs for only 99.95 dollars) is in your system for 72 hours and it kills the opiate buzz from hydro, so take hydro at your normal levels, maybe 1 or 2 extra to help out with the w/ds from tram if you get any and then ween from hydro if it's easier.
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