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#719122 - 06/25/08 06:03 AM Re-current headaches? Need advice, please.
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 537
Loc: Southwest US
Hi guys,
I have been having these HORRIBLE headaches, and they are different than any headache that I have previously experienced. My scalp hurts; even when I run my fingers through my hair it is painful. Additionally, I have pain around my temples and over my eyes. I have tried every OTC under the sun, and nothing is working. My blood pressure is normal, and I have d/ced my ADHD med, as I thought that might be the cause-but the headaches never really seemed to occur on the medication, only after in wore off. Vasodialation? Neuropathy? I haven't clue one. Has anyone else experineced these symptoms before? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.

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#719131 - 06/25/08 06:32 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
dixiechick Offline
Old Hand


Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 498
Loc: Deep South
I can relate to the part where your scalp hurts but mine usually is tender for about 2-3 days after i have had a major migraine. I call it "hair hurt" because that is the only way i know how to decribe how it feels.
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#719366 - 06/25/08 02:29 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: dixiechick]
neofate Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1734
Loc: Southern, US
Experience them all too often. How long have these headaches been occurring? Do you have any other symptoms?

Headaches are evasive in definition, but they can be grouped into four basic categories.

Muscle contraction (tension) - Vascular - Traction - and Inflammatory.

Judging by your report of the scalp hurting it leads me to believe it is Muscular in nature. That there is tension/contraction of the head/face/neck muscles which leads to the nociceptive pain signaling.

If the cause were traction or inflammation , the headache would be a symptom of another disorder.. ie: Sinus infection, etc.

I would suggest a hot shower/bath and moist heat to the back of the neck to ease the muscles. Massage and other therapy in line with this is also a good idea. These are the most common cause of headache, and account for about 90% of headache. When the scalp is sore like you describe it is from muscle contraction of the scalp. Things were (and might still be) tensed up for a long period of time. We are often unaware of the held contraction in the scalp (and other regions).. then obtain horrid pain and are at a loss to what is going on. The headache and worry can then worsen your stress levels and cause it to be cyclical in nature .. producing more stress, causing more tension in the muscles and resulting in more pain.

If you could describe in detail as much about your headaches as you can think of it would help tremendously in finding the root cause of it.

I have had chronic headaches for the better part of 8 years now, and have not found a 'cure'. Analgesics take away much of the pain temporarily but in my case I can still 'feel' the tension of my scalp. It feels as if there is a elastic band on my scalp. The feeling varies during the day and gets better and worse as days go on.

Often headaches are complex. They are often co-existent. Basically people who have frequent headaches and seek medical attention often have more than one 'type' of scenario occurring. Which makes it difficult to treat. Often doctors will make one singular diagnosis and thus one of the , say, two cause is treated but pain remains because the other is not treated.

An example,.. I have the tension headaches, and can physically feel the tension when pain exists and when it doesn't. However I also have cervical pain and problems in the neck region that spawn the head pain as well. The latter resulting from car accidents years ago,.. are the two linked -- To a degree I am sure, but so far, have not been able to 'cure' them.

In regards to your ADHD medication, I assume it was an amphetamine derivative of some sort. You say you could feel the headaches when the medicine was wearing off, but not while on. This would automatically lead one to believe it is vascular in nature.. and it very well might be a part of it. Though a good test would be to drink an ample amount of caffeine, or even take one of your ADHD pills as a 'trial' , one time, to see if symptoms are relieved.

It could be as basic as the body readjusting after discontinuing the ADHD medication. It can take some time to readjust after exposure to any type or relative of amphetamine.

If Ibuprofen, Aspirin, Tylenol, and Naproxen Sodium aren't helping then you can be fairly sure the cause isn't inflammation. That Rules out 1 of the 4.

So we are down to Traction, Muscle Contraction, and Vascular.

I can assume Traction has little to do with it. So I believe you are dealing with Muscle Contraction and Vascular difficulties.

With Muscle Contraction being the main culprit at the moment.

Again,.. I think more details would help us help you. Also a little history of how long these have been occurring and how frequent would help.

Have you seen a doctor about them? Is this an acute episode that is not a chronic thing? I hope it is the latter, I hope it is acute and it will take care of itself irregardless of if you figure it out. \:\)

Anyhow, I do empathize with you,.. I suffer everyday to some degree, and am willing to try to help you help yourself if this continues.

I hope you are feeling better.
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"Efforts and courage are not enough, without purpose and direction."

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#719538 - 06/25/08 10:50 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: neofate]
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 537
Loc: Southwest US
I fear that it is vascular in nature, which scares me. However, I have had both an MRI with and without contrast that were unremarkable. Along with the headaches, my wrists will ache, and behind my left knee seems tender. I have no visible vascular damage, but feel a sort of pressure at times, especially in my feet and hands. Last semester it was quite bothersome, and I reluctantly went to my doc who ordered and EKG and a 48 hour heart monitor along with MRI's. All came back normal. I wonder if it could be simple nerve damage? I guess I am a bit worried that it is some form of periphreal vascular disease, but my heart seems to be tip top. What do you think?

Thanks,
J
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#719726 - 06/26/08 11:03 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
neofate Offline
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Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1734
Loc: Southern, US
You have had extensive testing done to prove that you do not have vascular problems. Now, the headache could have a vascular component to it, but nothing that is 'hurting' you or damaging you. Simple dilation/constriction of blood vessels. Though as I said I think it is largely muscular. We don't feel 'vascular' pressure.. we might feel pain from vascular changes in the head.. aka: Headache. However the pressure you feel in your hands and feet have nothing to do with your vascular flow. I'm sure it feels that way, but I assure you it isn't. The pressure 'feeling' and the tenderness behind your left knee can be totally unrelated to the headache(s). I would look into possible 'nerve damage' if the knee is a bothersome 'chronic' item. It is somewhat difficult to accurately diagnose nerve damage. As we have no way to measure them and map them. They are too complex for us at this moment, and everyone has grown a different 'configuration'.

Do you swell? Do you have any fluid retention problems?
_________________________
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#719859 - 06/26/08 03:29 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: neofate]
wttrsh Offline
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Registered: 12/03/06
Posts: 46
I have the same thing, but also have that pressure that you get when you have a sinus infection. This has been going on since 2000. I was FINALLY diagnosed last year with Sphenopalatine Neuralgia. I have to go through another sinus surgery, but since my deductible is $5000, I can't get it any time soon. Look into that, and see if that's what you could have. Let us know. Good Luck!
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#720468 - 06/27/08 05:47 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: neofate]
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 537
Loc: Southwest US
 Originally Posted By: neofate
You have had extensive testing done to prove that you do not have vascular problems. Now, the headache could have a vascular component to it, but nothing that is 'hurting' you or damaging you. Simple dilation/constriction of blood vessels. Though as I said I think it is largely muscular. We don't feel 'vascular' pressure.. we might feel pain from vascular changes in the head.. aka: Headache. However the pressure you feel in your hands and feet have nothing to do with your vascular flow. I'm sure it feels that way, but I assure you it isn't. The pressure 'feeling' and the tenderness behind your left knee can be totally unrelated to the headache(s). I would look into possible 'nerve damage' if the knee is a bothersome 'chronic' item. It is somewhat difficult to accurately diagnose nerve damage. As we have no way to measure them and map them. They are too complex for us at this moment, and everyone has grown a different 'configuration'.

Do you swell? Do you have any fluid retention problems?


No fluid retention problems, unless I have eaten fast food or something with an equal amount of salt (which I rarely do). I think it is probably nerve damage-and I wonder if there is any logic to the thinking that I might be extra sensitive to stimulants after taking benzos for so many years? Hmmm...your thoughts?
I have been really, really, busy lately, hence my lack of "posting" ;\)
Thanks,
J
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#720527 - 06/27/08 08:29 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
PrivateRealm Offline
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CAn I ask one question? DO you wake up with the headaches, or do they worrsen throughout the day?
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"A person's true identity is rarely apparent in the life that they lead."

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#720584 - 06/27/08 10:38 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: PrivateRealm]
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 537
Loc: Southwest US
They worsen throughout the day. Have yet to wake up with one. What does that indicate?
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The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.

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#720765 - 06/28/08 10:20 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: wttrsh]
neofate Offline
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Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1734
Loc: Southern, US
 Originally Posted By: wttrsh
I have the same thing, but also have that pressure that you get when you have a sinus infection. This has been going on since 2000. I was FINALLY diagnosed last year with Sphenopalatine Neuralgia. I have to go through another sinus surgery, but since my deductible is $5000, I can't get it any time soon. Look into that, and see if that's what you could have. Let us know. Good Luck!


Are you referring to me, or Jez?
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#720780 - 06/28/08 10:36 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
neofate Offline
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Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1734
Loc: Southern, US
 Originally Posted By: jehza1
No fluid retention problems, unless I have eaten fast food or something with an equal amount of salt (which I rarely do).


Ok, great. Just asking for symptomolgy, not a cure \:\)

 Quote:

I think it is probably nerve damage


There might be some nerve damage, but I do not think it has anything to do with your headaches, and is only mildly bothersome in comparison. In fact, I would overlook it for now. However, you might want to try some gabapentin -- aka: "Neurontin" -- for the nerve pain, AND the headaches.

Not likely to solve the headaches, but any nerve pain should be altered or significantly helped by the use of this medication. It just 'might' help the headaches. Give it a read, or if you are familiar and feel comfortable,... give it a shot \:\) (no pun intended)

 Quote:


-and I wonder if there is any logic to the thinking that I might be extra sensitive to stimulants after taking benzos for so many years? Hmmm...your thoughts?


Hrmm. There is logic to it,.. of course. I can deduce logic from almost any scenario discernible. \:\) -- But, hrmm.

Benzo's work by increasing Gaba. Stimulants work by increasing Norepinephrine and Dopamine. Logically without knowing the method of action I would say , sure.. You use a cns depressant on regular intervals ones sensitivity to a CNS stimulant would be higher than normal. However, looking at the mode of action of the two types of drugs.. They don't seem to overlap, and the science would point to an answer of "probably not" ;\) --

Not to mention the bodies adaptation to both Benzo's and Stimulants is very, very quick. In which the stimulant shouldn't be bothersome after a few weeks at most. (In most people).

Now the cessation of reasonably chronic use of a stimulant can cause a fairly long period of re-balancing in the brain which can and does lead to all sorts of odd , unexplainable, symptomolgy. Thankfully this goes away in time, .. but depending on the duration of the stimulant use it can be months to a year before all is said and done.

Private, I am interested in your take on the waking vs worsening during the day.

Anyhow, Jez -- Your headaches, in my sincere opinion, are not from anything 'major'. They in themselves are a major ordeal due to the pain/stress. However, if they do have a vascular component it is simply the dilation of the blood vessels in the head region and is of no harm.

I know that is comforting if you believe it, but it still doesn't solve the ultimate problem.

A doctor would likely start you on Topomax if all checks out. At your request, perhaps Neurontin.

 Quote:


I have been really, really, busy lately, hence my lack of "posting" ;\)
Thanks,
J


That you feel the need to explain yourself shows the type of person you are.. You are caring, kind, and so forth. Though it is totally unnecessary \:\) -- People come and go all the time here,.. I had a 10 day hiatus not long ago,.. no big deal. Though we do miss you! =)
_________________________
-/\/eofate

"Efforts and courage are not enough, without purpose and direction."

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#721124 - 06/29/08 03:12 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
PrivateRealm Offline
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Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3067
Loc: In my realm, I'm QUEEN
Well, waking up can indicate brain tumors and other brain conditions, so I was just wanting to rule that out. Those that worsen throught out the day tend to be tension by nature...not that this is a given rule, just a rule of thumb.
_________________________
Anne~~~
"A person's true identity is rarely apparent in the life that they lead."

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#721377 - 06/29/08 05:14 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: PrivateRealm]
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 537
Loc: Southwest US
 Originally Posted By: PrivateRealm
Well, waking up can indicate brain tumors and other brain conditions, so I was just wanting to rule that out. Those that worsen throught out the day tend to be tension by nature...not that this is a given rule, just a rule of thumb.

Oh, just a brain tumor...no big deal Thanks for the "rule out" \:\) but I had an MRI with and without contrast for this a couple of months ago. Everything checked out, so I think it unlikely that I have a tumor. Although if you have any ambien, send it ASAP as I am sure to stay awake wondering about this I'm kidding-thanks for the response. Someone suggested Neurontin, but I am leary of trying it-I have taken it before and feel like a space cadet on it, not in a pleasant way, either. I know that Lyrica works on neuropathy (GABA and others)? Do you have any experience with this medication? I've never taken it.
Thanks,
J
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.

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#721486 - 06/29/08 10:22 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
neofate Offline
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Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1734
Loc: Southern, US
Sorry I can't be of help with experience with Lyrica or Neurontin -- I simple know of them from research and reports of 'others' who have taken it. Perhaps your stay at the space academy would be short lived as time went on? Or have you disproved that theory? ;\)

_________________________
-/\/eofate

"Efforts and courage are not enough, without purpose and direction."

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#721504 - 06/29/08 11:23 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
bdit Offline
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Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 974
Loc: Mid South
I have taken Neurtontin and Lyrica (not together) for peripheral neuropathy. I don't care for either of them. Neurtontin makes me feel weird, and Lyrica made my feet swell so much the pain actually increased.

I have never heard of taking these for headaches, but that would be a good question for your neurologist. I would definitely recommend seeing a neurologist for recurring, painful headaches to rule out anything serious and/or life-threatening.

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#721778 - 06/30/08 02:59 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: bdit]
neofate Offline
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Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 1734
Loc: Southern, US
Both are used for headaches, bdit. With Neurontin being much more common. There have been numerous studies in the 21st century and clinical trials to prove the efficiency of gabapentin on an array of headaches.

Austrialia has markedly done much of the research in regards to gabapentin.

Here is an excerpt that might be of interest:

 Quote:


Based on finding of a recent study researchers say the drug gabapentin (Neurontin) taken at 2,400 milligrams a day is an effective preventive measure for people with chronic daily headaches.

Gabapentin is an approved anti-epileptic drug. Studies have also shown its success in treating other pain-related health issues like diabetic neuropathy, postherpetic neuralgia, and migraine headache. Since gabapentin often reduces migraines by more than 50 percent and chronic daily headaches often have migraine-like features, researchers in Australia conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled study to determine the drug's specific effect on chronic daily headaches.

This type of study is the gold standard of clinical research studies where neither the researchers nor the participants know who received the drug or an identical dummy substance, called a placebo.

For the study researchers recruited 133 patients who had headaches at least 15 days every month that lasted more than four hours at a time. The patients were randomly selected to receive gabapentin or a placebo for six weeks. After that period, none of the patients received either treatment for a week, and then each group switched to the opposite treatment for a second six weeks.

Results showed 36 percent of the patients taking 2,400 milligrams of gabapentin a day stopped having chronic daily headaches. Negative effects of the drug included vomiting, dizziness, dysarthria (problems speaking), sleepiness, and constipation.
_________________________
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#722280 - 07/01/08 02:59 PM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: bdit]
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
Posts: 537
Loc: Southwest US
 Originally Posted By: bdit
I have taken Neurtontin and Lyrica (not together) for peripheral neuropathy. I don't care for either of them. Neurtontin makes me feel weird, and Lyrica made my feet swell so much the pain actually increased.

I have never heard of taking these for headaches, but that would be a good question for your neurologist. I would definitely recommend seeing a neurologist for recurring, painful headaches to rule out anything serious and/or life-threatening.


Would you mind expanding on the symptoms you experience from having peripheral neuropathy?

Thanks,
j
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.

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#722656 - 07/02/08 08:59 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
littlered363 Offline
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I also get headaches. They are very bad, and often keep me up at night. I thought at first I was having migraines, because I would feel very nauseaus, I couldnt stand to see anything moving, (TV), hated to hear any noises, and couldnt stand the light to be on. The computer screen was a nightmare to look at. They are very bad and sometimes last all day. I have found nothing to help with these.

The reason why the Dr. decided that they were not migraines is because I started noticing that it would start out in my neck and then slowly move towards my head, eventually staying on one side of my head. It isnt a pounding, but more like a constant pressure. It almost feels like someone is squeezing the hell out of one side of my head, I know that doesnt make sense, but it is the only way to describe it.

I am not meaning to hi jack the thread or anything, but I wanted to see if maybe anyone else here has had the same symptoms as me. I havent been back to the Dr since the last time, so I havent had any tests run. Although my husband is pushing me to go, so I probably will be making an appointment some time next week. If someone could give me a little advice on what to suggest to the Dr, I would greatly appreciate it. My Dr. seems to be one of those that doesnt like to spend much time with you, sort of uncaring.

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#722728 - 07/02/08 11:29 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: littlered363]
jehza1 Offline
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Loc: Southwest US
I'm as lost as you are. Headaches are mysterious things, IMO. Even when you "think" you have the cause pinned down, you get a completely different sort of headache that throws off your previous theories and or remedies.
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.

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#722749 - 07/02/08 11:50 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
littlered363 Offline
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I know what you mean. I just wish I could find something to help, because when I have them they are crippling. I cant hardly stand it. Keep us updated when you find out what yours is caused from.
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#723124 - 07/03/08 08:45 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: littlered363]
jehza1 Offline
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Registered: 02/28/08
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Loc: Southwest US
This morning I woke up with THE WORST HEADACHE ever, right behind my eye. I had to go into the darkest, coolest room of my house just to keep from crying (and I'm not usually one cry over headache pain). I was worse when I stood up. I took half an Atenol, and some aspirin and fell back asleep. When I woke back up, I felt much better, but when I bend over I still fill a residual pressure behind my eye. I took some Tylenol PM last night, as I could not get to sleep, and this often gives me a headache in the morning. It felt like one of these "headaches" X 10, accompanied by sweating. Seriously folks, I am freaking out a bit, and can't get into see my doctor until next week. Thoughts? Suggestions?

Greatly appreciated,
J
_________________________
The average pencil is seven inches long, with just a half-inch eraser - in case you thought optimism was dead.

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#723131 - 07/03/08 09:05 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
SallyCShells Offline
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Posts: 482
sounds like it could be a migraine headache jehza. When I have one, I have to have complete darkness, quiet and remain cool too....break out in sweat also if I am not very cool. The pain is so bad I cry too. Residual pain is common for a while after, especially when bending over. Are you nauseated too? Mine usually don't go away with aspirin though, if yours do, consider yourself lucky.

If they persist or you don't get relief from the aspirin go see your doctor.

There is medication which you can take everyday designed to keep migraine headaches from happening less often like Topamax and medications that can abort the headaches at the beginning like Imitrex.

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#723152 - 07/03/08 09:40 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: SallyCShells]
littlered363 Offline
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Jehza, poor thing, sorry you are still having such a hard time. When I have my headaches the cold air only makes it worse. I dont know why, but I dont like the heat either. I guess it just has to be somewhere in the middle. Just try to relax, maybe you can call your Dr to just ask if there is anything you can do in the mean time before your appointment next week. I hope you start feeling better.
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#723157 - 07/03/08 09:52 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
lovetocook Offline
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Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 50
As a daily migraineur, these are classic symptoms, so definitely discuss with your Dr about abortives.
They don't work for me (not even brain surgery helped)
but for some, they are a blessing.

Also, if nausea is a problem he can prescribe
something for that (get the generic) - if you have these
things on hand, no matter when the headache strikes,
you can help yourself.

Take care & be well.

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#723200 - 07/03/08 10:44 AM Re: Re-current headaches? Need advice, please. [Re: jehza1]
JokerOwling Offline
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There was a government article released a while ago in Australia that stated that the most common cause of chronic headaches was commonly available(especially OTC) medications, with APAP being the worst offender.The article was backed by the Aus.Medical Association.

The article cited regular use of APAP to now be the number one cause of chronic headaches,and it showed that when sufferers stopped taking APAP and aspirin regularly,their chronic headaches stopped.It also stated the headaches were known to increase in frequency and intensity,the longer APAP,aspirin and other common meds were taken.
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