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#589377 - 10/28/07 07:41 AM
Re: Benzo withdrawal?
[Re: Swirl]
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rayovac1
Enthusiast
Registered: 11/18/02
Posts: 283
Loc: Hotels, Airports, Airplanes, T...
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Hi...
Thank you for the reply.
I'm familiar with the Ashton manual and the method of switching to Valium. The last thing I want to do is give up one benzo for another.
At one time I was taking 2.5 mgs a day. For a very long time I was taking 1 mg. However, I tapered down to .75 mg. Now, even a little bit less than .75 mg.
The last cut was the worst for about 4 days. I had tingly, burning, numbness type feelings in my legs. Very odd. It passed, thank God! I'm stable on the new dose. And plan to make another cut on Friday.
Not a whole lotta fun! I'm working on it though. I fight the urge on a bad day to updose. So far, so good.
Swirl
I could be wrong, but it sounds as though you are taking xanax (based on your doses).
You certainly could still try to use the ashton manual (that web site is just phenomenal in my opinion). Just use her conversion chart (from xanax to valium) and taper your xanax doses instead of the valium doses.
So, for example, I believe that 20mg of valium is equal to 1mg of xanax. If the ahston manual says that you should be at 10mg of valium, then just try 0.5mg of xanax during that time period....if the ashton manual says to be at 5mg of valium, use 0.25mg of xanax...and so on.
Generally, the problem with xanax is that because it is such a short - acting benzo you may not get the "gentle" taper that valium would provide. However, if you are now at 0.75mg of xanax, you might just be through the very worst of it. The trick (from what I understand) with benzos is to *take it very slowly...but be persistent with your taper...and don't updose**.
One last point: Why wouldn't you want to switch to valium? All benzos are cross - tolerant...so switching to valium wouldn't really be like taking a totally new medication. It would simply be like taking a longer - acting version of xanax (without all of the peaks and valleys).
In either case, good luck!
God Bless,
Ray
_________________________
"Cold, cold water surrounds me now
and all I've got is your hand.
Lord can you hear me now?
Lord can you hear me now?
Lord can you hear me now,
...or am I lost?"
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#603921 - 11/23/07 01:54 PM
Re: Benzo withdrawal?
[Re: rayovac1]
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whacker1
Journeyman
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 57
Loc: An allegedly free country
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Switching from Xanax to Valium at 20:1 ratio won't really do much other than increase someone's intake of benzos, moderately. Xanax is definitely potent, but not as potent as that goofball Heather Ashton says it is.
Heather Ashton, widely regarded as a deity on the subject, is fundamentally wrong about substituting with diazepam. Right idea, wrong drug to use. It's really a fast acting drug, just like Xanax. It hasn't gained the level of notoriety xanax has, simply because it's rarely prescribed in equivalent doses (Xanax is minimum 15x as potent). Diazepam is the drug that started the whole benzo craze in the first place, leaving librium in the dust. This fact seems to have eluded Ashton. Yet her crapola can be found all over the www. She needs a good slap. Too many people believe everything she says as though it were the gospel truth. It's not.
It's the faster acting drugs which generally get people addicted in the first place. By addicted I mean, a person's use starts to spiral out of control. An addict is someone who takes a drug compulsively, in ever increasing doses. Someone who is dependant simply cannot function without the drug.
The addictive potential of diazepam is definitely greater than either klonopin or librium. The longer acting drugs , at least, allow someone to stabilize their use, and tapering from a long acting benzo is generally far easier than tapering from a short acting one.
_________________________
They don't know nothing about redemption. They don't know nothing about recovery. Some people just ain't the type for marriage and family.
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#720604 - 06/27/08 11:41 PM
Re: Benzo withdrawal?
[Re: stits]
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xax
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/17/05
Posts: 285
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Whacker is absolutely right. The touted "near week-long" effect is majorly flawed, as those primary and secondary metabolites become very weak, very quicky.
Stits
For the sake of accuracy, here's a quote from the Ashton manual as it relates to the stated long half lives of many benzodiazepines:
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Duration of effects. The speed of elimination of a benzodiazepine is obviously important in determining the duration of its effects. However, the duration of apparent action is usually considerably less than the half-life. With most benzodiazepines, noticeable effects usually wear off within a few hours. Nevertheless the drugs, as long as they are present, continue to exert subtle effects within the body.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
I'm have neutral feelings w/regards to this manual, and neither advocate it nor dismiss the validity of the Ashton manual and its proposed methods. Actually, I'm simply just trying to clarify some facts (quoted direct from the manual), as I've not been in a situation to utilize the text as written.
-xax
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#720612 - 06/28/08 12:38 AM
Re: Benzo withdrawal?
[Re: xax]
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stits
Banned. Making other posters not want to visit...
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/15/05
Posts: 2981
Loc: Stitsville, Virginia
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It's the faster acting drugs which generally get people addicted in the first place. By addicted I mean, a person's use starts to spiral out of control. An addict is someone who takes a drug compulsively, in ever increasing doses. Someone who is dependant simply cannot function without the drug.
The addictive potential of diazepam is definitely greater than either klonopin or librium. The longer acting drugs, at least, allow someone to stabilize their use, and tapering from a long acting benzo is generally far easier than tapering from a short acting one.
Wow. Whacker! Agreed, agreed!
So thus far I s'ppose, this apperantly makes 3 of us the -Neph, you and I, who are qualified to speak intelligently and fan through the smoke of charts, tables, ridiculously crude "equivalencies," and flawed taper plans which emanate therefrom.
Hey greetz 
Good to say formal hello.
Stits
_________________________
"Ignore." It's like my own little mini-ban. 
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#721048 - 06/28/08 08:15 PM
Re: Benzo withdrawal?
[Re: nitemoon]
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OldandWorn
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 7030
Loc: Looking for job in Clinton III...
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I am going to a new doctor in the next week or so. I have been taking 2mgs of Xanax at bedtime for 12-18 months. I am thinking that I may need to change to something else (but still a benzo). Does anyone have any ideas? I have sleep paralysis as well as anxiety attacks at night so regular sleep aids do not really work. You mightn't like hearing this, but here's hoping that your new doctor is highly reticent to stay on the benzodiazepine bandwagon for forever and ever. If you have what this sleep paralysis and "anxiety attacks" during the nighttime, an entirely different treatment approach is likely indicated. Good luck. Stits I was put on benzos after I had a sleep study to make sure I was truely having sleep paralysis. When I started taking Ambien I also started talking to people who were not real. Plus, with no insurance, I can not afford any of these new sleep meds. I know Ambien in generic now, but as I said, I become insane when I take it. I have been on antidepressants and did not tolerate them well at all. I have also tried every herbal remedy on earth. I am not looking for someone to tell me that benzos are great and that I should be given an unlimited supply for the rest of my life. Maybe I am physically addicted to benzos at this point. I really don't know. I take 2mgs or less a night. I can assume I am not otherwise addicted since I do not crave them nor have I increased my dose in over a year. Luckily, since I started taking benzos I have only had 4 or 5 sleep paralysis attacks.
Hey, can you sleep without it? I would taper off. Good luck!
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#721056 - 06/28/08 08:35 PM
Re: Benzo withdrawal?
[Re: | | | | | |
