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#498303 - 05/01/07 06:24 AM
What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?

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angto725
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 1325
Loc: NY, USA
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This is an AWESOME site with excellent information and excellent resources. Please visit it and do some reading...these issues concern every American.
http://www.drugpolicy.org/drugwar/alternatives/
Alternatives to Prohibition
The Drug Policy Alliance promotes alternatives to drug prohibition based on science, compassion, health and human rights. Read our entire mission statement here.
The current drug "control" system -- the war on drugs -- consists of two basic elements: the predominant role of criminal justice in all things having to do with marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine and other prohibited drugs; and the presumption that any use of those drugs, whether harmful or not, is inherently immoral and must be eliminated by government coercion.
Drug war advocates evaluate policy almost solely according to whether the number of people who admit to using certain drugs rises or falls after the policy's implementation. This standard has two key flaws. Since it does not distinguish problematic from non-problematic drug use, it gauges very little about actual changes in harmful behavior or social wellbeing. More importantly, it fails to account for many of the most important social costs related to drugs: high levels of incarceration; violence generated by the criminal market; the preventable spread of HIV and other infectious disease; the denial of medical marijuana to the sick; and so on. These costs are often driven by drug war policies more than by drug use itself.
Drug policy reformers evaluate a policy by asking a range of questions about its actual effects, both intended and unintended. Would an increase in recreational marijuana use by adults indicate, in and of itself, a policy failure? Drug warriors would likely say yes. But what if that "failure" were accompanied by a decrease in incarceration, taxation, black-market crime, and a host of other social problems? Drug policy reformers, taking into account both the larger social picture and the strong scientific evidence that adult marijuana use is relatively benign, would probably answer no.
This "new bottom line" is known as harm reduction. Harm reduction began in the 1980s as a public health strategy to stem the spread of HIV/AIDS among people who inject drugs. From its clinical successes, most notably with needle exchange, and from its pragmatic and compassionate values, emerged an alternative vision for drug policy as a whole. Harm reduction is grounded in the conviction that people should not be punished for what they put into their bodies, but only for crimes committed against others. It acknowledges that no society will ever be free of drugs. It holds that drug policies should seek to reduce the negative consequences (principally death, disease, crime and suffering) of both drug use and the policies themselves.
If the drug policy reform movement is successful, harm reduction principles will form the basis of a more effective, scientific and humane drug control regime. The number of drug law violators behind bars will be a tiny fraction of today's population; drug policies will no longer provide the means and excuse to arrest, incarcerate, disenfranchise and otherwise harm millions of people, especially African American and Latino men and women; marijuana will be legal, no doubt with regulatory models varying from state to state, as is true with alcohol today; drug control efforts with respect to heroin, cocaine and other drugs will seek to reduce the negative consequences of both drug use and prohibition through strictly controlled availability as well as quality treatment and other viable alternatives to drug abuse and criminality; drug education for young people will be honest and well informed by science and scholarship; government resources currently devoted to punitive approaches will focus instead on education and affirmative alternatives to drug abuse and incarceration. Under a harm reduction regime, these and other actual results -- rather than wishful thinking or political platitudes -- will be the goal of policymakers and the sole judge of their success or failure.
_________________________
Diplomacy is...the art of letting someone have your way.
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#498304 - 05/01/07 06:35 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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raffaviv
Newbie
Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 41
Loc: EU
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http://alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/
and this is what is WRONG on the war on drugs. that poor woman, and her family. For the police officers to blow away a 92 yrs woman scared it was DRUG DEALERS breaking into her home? then the police plant drugs inside to cover their hideous mistakes?
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#498305 - 05/01/07 07:33 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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joebend
Threadhead
Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 897
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Quote:
http://alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/
and this is what is WRONG on the war on drugs.
This is one of the most disheartening, discraceful things I have ever read. They should be hung by their toenails! How dare they! The war on drug alright, who cares if some poor old inocent lady gets in the way (of nothing, BTW)! Geez this stuff drives me to .............(insert anything that can take me away from this insane reality)!I want no part of being called a human if this is what it takes.
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#498307 - 05/01/07 10:09 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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MARLEY
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 4061
Loc: Vote Obama!
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Quote:
what's RIGHT about the war on drugs?
ABSOULTELY NOTHING!!! A Complete WASTE and wait and see what is written in the history books twenty or thirty years from now. Should be very interesting. I am against the War on Drugs in Every Single Respect, but I'm not going any further than that right now as the topic gets me going. END THE WAR ON DRUGS....END THE WAR ON DRUGS......END THE WAR ON DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-MARLEY
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#498308 - 05/03/07 04:05 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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MARLEY
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 4061
Loc: Vote Obama!
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I'm curious how other people feel about this topic even though I didn't start the thread. My opinion is obvious--LOL, but what do other's think?
-MARLEY
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#498309 - 05/04/07 08:00 AM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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aught
Enthusiast
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 234
Loc: citius altius fortius
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Quote:
I'm curious how other people feel about this topic even though I didn't start the thread...
The “War on Drugs” is an unfortunate case of collective hysteria fueled in part by a government sponsored misinformation campaign of astounding magnitude. It should be painfully obvious to any rational thinking person that the stated goals of the Drug War can never be achieved by using a brute-force supply side disruption methodology, even when coupled with unnecessarily and outrageously punitive legal consequences for the consumers of currently controlled substances. As a Christian I am truly horrified by the tremendous damage being done by the Drug War, and I pray to God that this evil inspired madness will be brought to an end in our lifetime.
Z
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#498310 - 05/05/07 09:41 AM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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MARLEY
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 4061
Loc: Vote Obama!
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So I see you feel as strongly about this War as I do. Your post was very well written and put together. I don't think you could have said it better! Good to see another person out there against this War on Drugs!
-MARLEY
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#498311 - 05/05/07 11:01 AM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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shanesinpain
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 2145
Loc: The Sunshine State
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I just posted a very informative article on the "War on Drugs" in the News forum. It is relative to this topic and quite interesting.
Former Narcs Say Drug War is Futile
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#498313 - 05/05/07 01:09 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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Ruggie
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 12354
Loc: Right Here
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Quote:
Quote:
http://alternet.org/drugreporter/51151/
and this is what is WRONG on the war on drugs.
This is one of the most disheartening, discraceful things I have ever read. They should be hung by their toenails! How dare they! The war on drug alright, who cares if some poor old inocent lady gets in the way (of nothing, BTW)! Geez this stuff drives me to .............(insert anything that can take me away from this insane reality)!I want no part of being called a human if this is what it takes.
The story if anyone wants to see read it but doesn't feel like going to the link.
Quote:
Documents Reveal: Cops Planted Pot on 92-Year Old Woman They Killed in Botched Drug Raid
By Rhonda Cook, Atlanta Journal-Constitution. Posted April 30, 2007.
Atlanta resident Kathryn Johnston's death has finally been exposed to be a case of police coverup in clear example of the insanity of the war on drugs.
According to federal documents released this week, these are the events that led to Kathryn Johnston's death and the steps the officers took to cover their tracks.
Three narcotics agents were trolling the streets near the Bluffs in northwest Atlanta, a known market for drugs, midday on the Tuesday before Thanksgiving.
Eventually they set their sights on some apartments on Lanier Street, usually fertile when narcotics agents are looking for arrests and seizures.
Gregg Junnier and another narcotics officer went inside the apartments around 2 p.m. while Jason Smith checked the woods. Smith found dozens of bags of marijuana -- in baggies that were clear, blue or various other colors and packaged to sell. With no one connected to the pot, Smith stashed the bags in the trunk of the patrol car. A use was found for Smith's stash 90 minutes later: A phone tip led the three officers to a man in a "gold-colored jacket" who might be dealing. The man, identified as X in the documents but known as Fabian Sheats, spotted the cops and put something in his mouth. They found no drugs on Sheats, but came up with a use for the pot they found earlier.
They wanted information or they would arrest Sheats for dealing.
While Junnier called for a drug-sniffing dog, Smith planted some bags under a rock, which the K-9 unit found.
But if Sheats gave them something, he could walk.
Sheats pointed out 933 Neal St., the home of 92-year-old Kathryn Johnston. That, he claimed, is where he spotted a kilogram of cocaine when he was there to buy crack from a man named "Sam."
They needed someone to go inside, but Sheats would not do for their purposes because he was not a certified confidential informant.
So about 5:05 p.m. they reached out by telephone to Alex White to make an undercover buy for them. They had experience with White and he had proved to be a reliable snitch.
But White had no transportation and could not help.
Still, Smith, Junnier and the other officer, Arthur Tesler, according to the state's case, ran with the information. They fabricated all the right answers to persuade a magistrate to give them a no-knock search warrant.
By 6 p.m., they had the legal document they needed to break into Kathryn Johnston's house, and within 40 minutes they were prying off the burglar bars and using a ram to burst through the elderly woman's front door. It took about two minutes to get inside, which gave Johnston time to retrieve her rusty .38 revolver.
Tesler was at the back door when Junnier, Smith and the other narcotics officers crashed through the front.
Johnston got off one shot, the bullet missing her target and hitting a porch roof. The three narcotics officers answered with 39 bullets.
Five or six bullets hit the terrified woman. Authorities never figured out who fired the fatal bullet, the one that hit Johnston in the chest. Some pieces of the other bullets -- friendly fire -- hit Junnier and two other cops.
The officers handcuffed the mortally wounded woman and searched the house.
There was no Sam.
There were no drugs.
There were no cameras that the officers had claimed was the reason for the no-knock warrant.
Just Johnston, handcuffed and bleeding on her living room floor.
That is when the officers took it to another level. Three baggies of marijuana were retrieved from the trunk of the car and planted in Johnston's basement. The rest of the pot from the trunk was dropped down a sewage drain and disappeared.
The three began getting their stories straight.
The next day, one of them, allegedly Tesler, completed the required incident report in which he wrote that the officers went to the house because their informant had bought crack at the Neal Street address. And Smith turned in two bags of crack to support that claim.
They plotted how they would cover up the lie.
They tried to line up one of their regular informants, Alex White, the reliable snitch with the unreliable transportation.
The officers' story would be that they met with White at an abandoned carwash Nov. 21 and gave him $50 to make the buy from Neal Street.
To add credibility to their story, they actually paid White his usual $30 fee for information and explained to him how he was to say the scenario played out if asked. An unidentified store owner kicked in another $100 to entice White to go along with the play.
The three cops spoke several times, assuring each other of the story they would tell.
But Junnier was the first to break.
On Dec. 11, three weeks after the shooting, Junnier told the FBI it was all a lie.
Note: Junnier will face 10 years and one month and Smith 12 years and seven months. No sentencing date was immediately set, and the sentences are contingent on the men cooperating with the government. Arthur Tesler, also on administrative leave, was charged with violation of oath by a public officer, making false statements and false imprisonment under color of legal process. His attorney, William McKenney, said Tesler expects to go to trial.
_________________________
Takes a Lickin' & Keeps on Tickin'
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#498314 - 05/05/07 02:09 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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frustrated62
Old Hand
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 440
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Quote:
I'm curious how other people feel about this topic even though I didn't start the thread. My opinion is obvious--LOL, but what do other's think?
-MARLEY
Hey Marley, Angto, Shane, Ruggie, and Everyone Else, 
Sorry I haven't been around lately. My hubby went through a RFA procedure last week and I've had my hands full since. 
Marley, I am as passionate about this subject as you are! And like "aught" I also consider myself a Christian.
More than once the thought has crossed my mind that God put on this earth the plants and herbs that make up most of, if not all of, the so called "Drugs" that this "War on Drugs" is battling. IMHO God was not wrong! He knew what he was doing. These things were put here for a reason. To help and heal mankind. Now I won't get into the whole debate about good and evil connected with the way and purpose that these plants and herbs have sometimes been used and abused. That's not what this thread is about. But I will say that over my life I have seen the benefits of their use and I strongly believe that the government has no place imposing themselves as our surrogate parents because they feel we don't have the sense that God gave us in choosing how and what we do with our bodies. 
Quote:
"The first casualty of war is the truth" Sir Winston Churchill....ol' Winston knew what he was talking about.
CairoKid, I couldn't agree with you more! Though maybe my agreement and passion on this subject has something to do with the fact that my maiden name is the same as the authors? And yes I am related. So maybe it all comes naturally?
_________________________
Knowledge IS Power!
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#498315 - 05/05/07 04:00 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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CloudDancer
Journeyman
Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 60
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Quote:
I'm curious how other people feel about this topic even though I didn't start the thread. My opinion is obvious--LOL, but what do other's think?
-MARLEY
I not only do NOT agree with the war on drugs but I actually think it is evil. We all know that the sentences given for drug offenses are done in a discriminating fashion. Look at Rush Limbaugh.....has he served time yet?
Control freaks are sick and IMO evil people and it ultimately comes down to the government wanting to control what we do, think, etc.
We spend billions of dollars on the drug war....money that could be better spent alleviating poverty which is one of the main causes of hard drug use.
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#498317 - 05/05/07 08:05 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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frustrated62
Old Hand
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 440
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Quote:
Quote:
"The first casualty of war is the truth" Sir Winston Churchill....ol' Winston knew what he was talking about.
CairoKid, I couldn't agree with you more! Though maybe my agreement and passion on this subject has something to do with the fact that my maiden name is the same as the authors? And yes I am related. So maybe it all comes naturally?
Wow! Fascinating- Ol' Winston is one of my favorite figures in History. I studied History in college and am still an avid reader- esp. history and biography. So...you're related to Winston? Interesting. That would make you related to the past Dukes of Marlborough, right? Is Bleinheim Palace still belong to the family, if you know?
Back to the subject at hand- this War on Drugs is a complete mess. It's enough to drive one crazy. We need to completely re-think our approach. It's not a question of some small changes. Big changes are needed. Interesting fact- America now has about 5% of the worlds' population, yet we consume almost half the illegal drugs. Not sure what that means, but something is askew.
Take care and best to all. The CairoKid.
CairoKid, If I remember correctly, yes I would also be related to at least one Duke of Marlborough. I'm actually ashamed to admit it, but it's only been in the last few years that I've become interested in my family history. While growing up and in school the first words ALWAYS out of anyone's mouth were, "Are you related?" and "How?" It frankly got so annoying at an early age that I guess I tuned out anything related to it. I did finally ask my mom, "How?", when I was a teen just to shut people up. But didn't pay much more attention after that or even sadly to that. So the best I can tell you now is I'm a cousin. As for Bleinheim Palace I'm sorry I have no idea. And now that I have finally pulled my head out of my backside and grown up and am interested my mom is no longer living. Nor is any of the rest of my family that would know. Mind you though I'm only 45. Mom did/does have pieces of a family tree and I hope one day to be able to spend the time to make it out. (it's very unorganized. ) But here's something you might find interesting? Because the Spencer line and the Churchill line crosses at, at least one point. There is a theory that the Churchill's in my line may also be related to Princess Diana. 
Anyway that's enough "Off-Topic" before I get in trouble.
Quote:
Interesting fact- America now has about 5% of the worlds' population, yet we consume almost half the illegal drugs. Not sure what that means, but something is askew.
It may mean that in America there are a lot more drugs that are considered "illegal" here as oppose to many other counties. But that's just a thought. 
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this country. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But I do think that we could seriously take some ques from other counties when it comes to health care and drugs. Though not an entire heath care system. Maybe an incorporation between us and others. Canada for example. Everything is paid for, yes. But if you need an MRI you can wait for months! At least that's what I hear from a friend of mine who live in Halifax. So again maybe a mix of what's good and works from various places. Nothing is perfect, but there's gotta be a better way than the cr@p we have now! OK, getting down now.
_________________________
Knowledge IS Power!
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#498318 - 05/05/07 09:52 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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bikerhoney
Board Addict
Registered: 10/23/06
Posts: 368
Loc: Margaritaville with my Man, Ji...
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Quote:
Quote:
what's RIGHT about the war on drugs?
ABSOULTELY NOTHING!!! A Complete WASTE and wait and see what is written in the history books twenty or thirty years from now. Should be very interesting. I am against the War on Drugs in Every Single Respect, but I'm not going any further than that right now as the topic gets me going. END THE WAR ON DRUGS....END THE WAR ON DRUGS......END THE WAR ON DRUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-MARLEY
Marley,
I'm so against this ignorant war on drugs!!! Like you...don't even get me started as I get fighting mad! And what P-isses me off the most about it is the fact that we are paying for it! So with that being said, I will say no more as I might end up having a stroke because it really gets me that upset! I am out of here and on to something like Marley's post "Funny Pictures" as thats where I get my daily dose of laughter.
Take Care All, Bikerhoney
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#498319 - 05/06/07 12:24 AM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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MARLEY
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 4061
Loc: Vote Obama!
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Quote:
I just posted a very informative article on the "War on Drugs" in the News forum. It is relative to this topic and quite interesting.
Former Narcs Say Drug War is Futile
This is great Shane! Thanks!
-MARLEY
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#498320 - 05/06/07 11:32 AM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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CairoKid
Veteran
Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 650
Loc: USA
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....snip....
Quote:
Interesting fact- America now has about 5% of the worlds' population, yet we consume almost half the illegal drugs. Not sure what that means, but something is askew.
It may mean that in America there are a lot more drugs that are considered "illegal" here as oppose to many other counties. But that's just a thought.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this country. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But I do think that we could seriously take some ques from other counties when it comes to health care and drugs. Though not an entire heath care system. Maybe an incorporation between us and others. Canada for example. Everything is paid for, yes. But if you need an MRI you can wait for months! At least that's what I hear from a friend of mine who live in Halifax. So again maybe a mix of what's good and works from various places. Nothing is perfect, but there's gotta be a better way than the [Email]cr@p[/Email] we have now!
OK, getting down now.
Health care here is great here....if you have money or insurance. I complain about it here but I love it too. Well, I am considering moving to Europe for a few years. (Grew up an expat-dad was a "international businessmann/executive"- so I always liked the expat vibe).Perhaps you're right, some combo between our system and the one in Holland or Canada (Holland being my destination of choice- no, not the pot, gave that up in college). The Dutch are very sensible. Plus, there is something kinda scary about to happen I sometimes think. Sometimes, I don't think the good ol' USA can keep going around pushing everyone around (and maybe we need a little humbling). Sorry if I've gotten OT but our national politics ties in (kinda) with these proposed upcoming laws.
It's funny they want to limit telemedicine. I see one of the most prominent MDs in town. He sees me for about five minutes- we could do it over a video conference. Btw, the troops in Iraq are getting medical advice via video conference- not all of them, not every case...I'll have to look into it for the details. It's crazy trying to ban telemedicine or as I call it- videoconferences. They seem to make sense in many cases. Of course, some scenarios require hands on- that's obvious. But to me, just as many scenarios could be done remotely (i.e. by video or telemedicine or whatever we wanna call it).
OK, enough for me....(getting off soapbox)
CairoKid
PS OT- do look into your family history, if done right, it could be a fun project. BTW, Winston was a great man- statesman, war hero, 1st leader to warn the world about Hitler, wit, adventurer, etc...I'll try to recommend a good bio if you like that sort of thing.
"No moral system can rest solely on authority." A.J. Ayer.
Edited by CairoKid (05/06/07 11:40 AM)
_________________________
"We have met the enemy and he is us" ""The world is a fine place and worth the fighting for (and I hate very much to leave it)."
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#498321 - 05/06/07 07:45 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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frustrated62
Old Hand
Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 440
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#498324 - 05/11/07 03:10 PM
Re: What's Wrong With The War On Drugs?
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MARLEY
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 4061
Loc: Vote Obama!
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Quote:
My opinion is the drug war is wrong, wrong, wrong. Do I think it will ever change? NO. I believe the things going on in this country were planned long ago. No matter what we do or how hard we fight, our voices are not going to be heard. Funny how you NEVER hear stories in the media about the good some of these drugs do for people suffering. NEVER will. It's counter productive to the governments plans. They'll just keep feeding this [censored] to the American public and turn all people suffering chronic pain into criminals and junkies. That's the way it is and I don't see it changing. It's THE NEW WORLD ORDER baby. It's all about control.
Our minds think alike. I've never met you on this board, but I think you took some of the words right out my mouth. The gov't LOVES control.
-MARLEY
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