VIP Area - VIP Members
- Free Board - Who's Online - Posting Rules
www.FriendlyClinic.com <<< >>> www.FriendlyClinic.com
Click here to visit FriendlyClinic.com

Lists: US List · International List · Canadian List · Black List · Drug List · Compare Prices
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#928534 - 09/11/09 05:44 PM Cross Drug Tolerance?
yankeefan Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 66
This is a really naive question but I am curious (for a reason). If I take hydro regularly (2-5 750/day), will I automatically have a higher than baseline tolerance for other opioids such as percocet or codeine? Or do you develop tolerance only for one specific drug?

Thanks to everyone for their expertise and help.

Top
#928546 - 09/11/09 06:13 PM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: yankeefan]
BassNbeatz Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/01/09
Posts: 229
Yes, all opiates/opioids are cross tolerant if used on a consistant basis &/or used 4 prolonged periods of time.

Use the Narcotic dosage converter (http://www.globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm)to find equianalgesic dosages when switching from 1 narcotic to another, & titrate your dose from there.

Hope that helpz.


Edited by BassNbeatz (09/11/09 06:14 PM)

Top
#928581 - 09/11/09 07:20 PM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: BassNbeatz]
yankeefan Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 66
Thank you so much. Very helpful,

Top
#952963 - 11/01/09 02:51 AM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: BassNbeatz]
Horse_Play Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: FSU
I had this question all typed up and ready to post then read the reply from BassNbeatZ but I'm posting it anyway. Just in case someone has anything to add.

I have been taking vicodin 10/325’s for about nine months (3 sometimes 4 a day). As one might image, I have built up a pretty good tolerance. My question is “Does anyone know of another pain med that I might substitute for a couple of weeks in order to decrease the tolerance I’ve built-up?’ I would like to have more information from someone how has experienced this situation or knows about it first hand before I talk with my doctor about it again.
_________________________
Knowledge Takes Time

Top
#953010 - 11/01/09 09:36 AM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: Horse_Play]
Gerbil Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 51
Opiate tolerance is a reality for anyone taking opiates. It's one of my biggest fears and I work hard and suffer extra pain as not to build up a tolerance quickly. I usually go off opiates for a week or so every month or two. It's a hard time while I'm off of them, but it has helped me stay on the same small amount of opiates for over four years. I am finally feeling like I am at the stage where I need to bump up, but may only try that on those occasions when I have a lot of physical activity I must do.

Keep in mind, tolerance can actually cause more pain for the pain sufferer. I recently read a research article, which I can reference if anyone is interested, related to opiates and pain suffers. The outcome was that long term opiate use and tolerance actually results in more pain to pain suffers. It's just another illustration that opiates are a band aid and something we have to be cautious of.

Of course, not all pain sufferers are alike and I realize some folks have to be on opiates and large doses to function. I just think this is an intersting topic.


Edited by Gerbil (11/01/09 09:38 AM)

Top
#953043 - 11/01/09 11:11 AM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: Gerbil]
meonlyits Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/23/09
Posts: 431
Gee a week a month is a lot of pain to suffer, as well as wd's.

I had read somewhere (here?) that 1 day a week 'holiday' was enough to keep tolerance down.

I am not sure about cross tolerance, but I would assume all opiods are alike in that regard.

I'd be interesting in reading the article you mentioned. Could you provide the link or the name so I can google?

Thanks,

Meon


Edited by meonlyits (11/01/09 11:12 AM)
_________________________
“I exist as I am, that is enough.” Walt Whitman

Top
#953188 - 11/01/09 05:35 PM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: meonlyits]
Fermentia00 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 148
I could be wrong, but I think that anything that affects the mu receptors (all opiates or opioids) are the same. One will not decrease the tolerance of another. Including Kratom.

I taper down or do one day holidays on a regular basis when I can and eat handfuls of ibuprofen. It sucks, but it is wise to get by on the smallest amount of medication that you can. Don't forget that you are "rewiring" your brain when you are on opiates for extended periods. It is not easy to reverse the tolerance once it is there.

Top
#953191 - 11/01/09 05:37 PM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: Fermentia00]
Stacy Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 3142
Loc: USA
Also long term narcotic use makes your body NOT produce endorphines, the natural morphine.

It also takes a while for your body to start producing endorphines again after stopping. That's one reason things are so painful when stopping after long periods of use, there is no natural pain reliever either.
_________________________
I Do Whatever My Rice Krispies Tell Me To.

Top
#953196 - 11/01/09 05:46 PM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: Fermentia00]
nephro Online   crying
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9716
Loc: NOT 40!
Essentially yes, opioids induce tolerance to all other opioids. However, cross-tolerance can be incomplete, which is why doctors tend to start on a lower dose than one might expect, when they change you from one opioid to another. Patients often want to immediately to back to their original opioid when this happens, but the doctor is cautiously factoring in any incomplete cross-tolerance.

It is explained quite nicely here:

Quote:
Opioid Cross-Tolerance

* While pharmacologic tolerance may develop to the opioid in use, tolerance may not be as marked relative to other opioids

* Incomplete cross-tolerance is likely due to subtle differences in:

o The molecular structure of each opioid
o The way each interacts with the patient’s opioid receptors

* Consequently, when switching opioids, there may be differences between published equianalgesic doses of different opioids and the effective ratio for a given patient

* Start with 50% to 75% of the published equianalgesic dose of the new opioid to compensate for incomplete cross-tolerance and individual variation, particularly if the patient has controlled pain

o If the patient has moderate to severe pain, do not reduce the dose as much
o If the patient has had adverse effects, reduce the dose more

* An important exception is methadone, which appears to have higher than expected potency during chronic dosing (compared with published equianalgesic doses for acute dosing)

o Start with 10% to 25% of the published equianalgesic dose
o Titrate appropriately to achieve pain control


http://endoflife.northwestern.edu/pain_management/part_two.cfm#Opioid%20Cross-Tolerance

Top
#953349 - 11/01/09 11:04 PM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: nephro]
Fermentia00 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 148
So, I guess the next question is: Which two drugs have the most incomplete cross tolerance?

Top
#953473 - 11/02/09 03:07 AM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: Fermentia00]
nephro Online   crying
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9716
Loc: NOT 40!
Probably a full mu agonist and a mixed agonist/antagonist with activity at kappa and delta sites would have a lot of incomplete cross-tolerance.

Phenanthrene and non-phenanthrene opioids may have some degree of incomplete cross-tolerance, but I don't know the degree and it must vary from one to the other. I could well imagine that morphine and dextropropoxyphene have some degree of incomplete cross-tolerance, for example.

http://www.globalrph.com/narcoticonv.htm

Go to that page and click on the question mark next to "Reduction for incomplete cross tolerance", and there is further explanation.

Top
#954161 - 11/03/09 01:49 AM Re: Cross Drug Tolerance? [Re: nephro]
Horse_Play Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/05/09
Posts: 24
Loc: FSU
That's a great website you found. I think it can be used to answer many question. Thanks a bunch for sharing.
_________________________
Knowledge Takes Time

Top


Moderator:  Heidi, Melody