Did anybody else see on CNN where the US FDA said they are about to pull all PILLS THAT HAVE any form of pain meds with Acetominophene off the market like LORTAB, lORCET, Vicodan, PERCOCET? They are trying really hard to get them pulled off the market because of the thousands of deaths & liver failure from ONLY 3500 TO 4,000 OF ACETOMINOPHENE AKA "TYLENOL". They JUST need to just lower the maximum dose in each pill to 100 TO 200MG'S. Norco only has 300mg's, which the maxiumum dose is 12 pills in 24 hours - Lorcet has 650mg's, WHICH THE MAXIMUM DOSE OF LORACET'S IS 6 PILLS IN 24 HOURS. Vicoprofen has Ibuprofen & hydrocodone instead of Acetaminophen, so it will damage you kidney's in real high doses, but that's not near as fatal as with damaging your liver. SORRY THAT I POSTED SO MUCH BUT SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA THAT MORE THAN 8 PILLS A DAY CAN CAUSE LIVER FAILURE & OR DEATH. I totally agree; because abuse or addiction shouldn't result in severely damaging your liver or dying when it could be so easily prevented. A know of so many people that have taken 20 Lortabs or Kapake a day & have no idea that they could have died or that that was almost three times the maxiumum dose- or that there liver could start going into failure even years down the road. Your liver controls how fast you age to & so many other processes that have to do with your immune system like fighting cancer, so it's just really not worth chancing damaging your liver. I have seen TV shows where people are taking 20 30 of then a day & the people know they COULD DIE OR RUIN THERE LIVER BUT THEY COULDN'T STOP BECAUSE OPIATE WITHDRAWALS ARE SO PAINFUL & LIVER FAILURE MAY NOT HAVE ANY SYMPTOMS FOR DAYS, THEN YOU DIE ONE OF THE MOST HORRIBLE SLOW DEATHS KNOW TO MAN.

I didnt see that, but I have a friend who got liver cancer and the doctors seem to think itwas from all the apap he was taking.

he was in an accident and was rx'd hydro 10/650's and apparently it killed his liver

so, thats good news really. i hope they do that.

Yeah, thank you for posting that about APAP in high doses for extened periods can cause cancer! That was why I stayed on them last year back when they just had COD with 500mg of APAP -to get pure COD or COD with lower APAP.

ill never put APAP in my body again. its pretty much useless anyways..ya know?

thanks for the info though!

thank you for that information..what a shame!

I know so many people that started Suboxone just for Hydrocodone or Codein addiction or even for pain & told it was a miracle drug. Suboxone withdrawals even when tapering down are a nightmare IN MOST CAES WHERE IT HAS BEEN TAKEN IN MORE THAN 2MGS FOR OVER A MONTH- like Methadone the withdrawals that last for sometimes 4- 6 months to a year. Suboxone should NORMALY ONLY BE GIVEN TO PEOPLE THAT CAN'T GET OFF DRUGS LIKE OXYCONTIN, DILAUDID, MORPHINE, HERION, etc. Normal opiate withdrawals last 3 4 to 7 days, but Suboxone has a super long half life & the withdrawals last for months instead of a few days. People normaly end up back on stronger opiates to get off the Suboxone. So many people that have taken Suboxone end up with severe major post traumatic stress syndrome & POST ACCUTE WITHDRAWALS THAT LAST FOR YEARS from the intense withdrawals that seam like never ending that damages the nervous system. Suboxone constantly hammers on your receptors & doesn't even start to break down until after a few days. So many people think they are clean or drug free on Suboxone & Suboxone is a way stronger drug than any of your opiates like Hydrocodone. IF YOU OR ANYBODY YOU KNOW IS ON SUBOXONE THEN PLEASE TAPPER DOWN OFF OF IT SLOWLY FOR SEVERAL MONTHS & DO SOME MAJOR RESEARCH BEFORE ATTEMPTING TO COME OF IT & SEEK THE HELP OF A TRUE ADDICTION SPECIALIST THAT HAS GOOD RATINGS THAT DEALS WITH SUBOXONE WITHDRAWALS. Suboxone, Methadone & Benzodiazapines like Xanax, Klonopin, Valium Ativan CAN BE BEYOND TORTURE TO COME OFF OF & can take month to years to recover from the damage that they have done & they store deep within your fatty tissues to where they cause these nightmares.

omg, really about the suboxone? I have been taking 8mg subs everyday for 4 months now.
i didnt know the wd's were THAT bad.

now im scared to tamper down. I am with a doctor though, so im sure he wont let me get sick.
at least i hope not.

So what's the deal with these guys? Are the legit? Folks receiving orders in a timely manner, if at all?

yes, I saw it and yes I concur. So many people dont have a clue about Acetominophene and or Ibuprofen as an ingredient with hydrocodone/codeine products and the liver damage they cause. Plus, unless you really know how to do it, CWE (cold water extaction) does not always remove the Ibuprofen. Therefore, it's good to know that Teva and a few other "codeine only" products exist.

Suboxone should not be used to get people off codeine, in my opinion. The best drug to get off codeine is codeine, preferable in liquid form, so the dose can be reduced in tiny amounts each day, 2 days, weeks or whatever. There is no rush.

Kapake is the form of co-codamol 30/500 (codeine 30mg + paracetamol 500mg) that is given out like long-distance telephone call leaflets in the UK. It is considered that as long as there is no hepatic impairment, and the patient does not take any other product containing paracetamol as well, that it is safe.

I have to admit, if I was on 4g of paracetamol every day for months on end, I wouldn't be convinced about the safety, but I cannot find any evidence that has proved paracetamol to be toxic in those doses, as long as the specific criteria are adhered to.

Regarding the time limit one can be on 4g of paracetamol per day, that's another tricky one.

So the question is, how much, and for how long. 4g per day in the short-term I have no problem with.

Yeah ... Why in the world would someone prescribe suboxone to help wean off something like codeine? Goodness gracious ...

Of course, as always, Nephro is spot on. Perhaps someone would use it since suboxone generally has naloxone, right? You know, punish the fellow who tries to sneak some extra codeine in or something. Seems like the same kind of logic that would lead companies to combine opiates (hydrocodone, codeine, etc) with APAP, and then talk of such drugs being dangerous for something OTHER than the APAP. Sounds like my country's mentality to me! Heh ...

I've seen lots of sources saying that 4g APAP limit, but, man, it sure seems like a huge load to take in daily, even for the short term. In each case it could be used, it just seems like there's a better alternative. Just like the alprazolam issue. Too much politics seeping into the prescription and distribution of pharmaceuticals.

Here's the stories (good to know):

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/30/acetaminophen.fda.hearing/index.html

http://www.stationstops.com/2009/07/01/why-the-fda-deliberately-poisoned-vicodin-with-acetaminophen/

Good to know, but they did not say whether the emergency poisonings were down to taking the prescribed amount for a while or overdosing, deliberately or accidentally. I would bet that nearly all were due to people taking more than they should.

We need evidence of the 4g limit, being adhered to, but causing hepatic problems over a period of time.

The second link featured someone who doesn't know that APAP is not "chemically" removed from compound pills; it is physically removed.

awesome. thanks

does anyone else have any recent news reports from october 2009 about those drugs being pulled?

all i can find online are those stories from may and june 2009 when the fda held that meeting about limiting the amount of aceto. in certain drugs.

well i have seen in the past clinical evidence of minimal hepatic toxicity at the 4g limit but cannot remember where. It is in place because I believe the 4g limit is where hepatic toxicity has been present on average, ie first signs of any at all signs of toxicity(prob increased liver enzymes).

So I am not inclined to say taking exactly 4g of paracetamol a day is necessarily going to cause problems, but I also do not think this situation is good at all in cases over 4 months imo. there you would probably start to see this toxicity compounding the injuries to the liver.

While this is not going to kill a person, immediately, probably not even within 10 years, I imagine that this toxicity and permanent effects would lead to a serious problem if ever combined with another problem such as obesity, alcohol, or/and diabetes as all of these cause liver issues or increase portal blood pressure.

Oh on a side note, I was under the impression they were only removing propoxyphen combinations, as research has shown that in order to obtain adequate analgesic activity, doses would have to be above the 4g limit in most cases.

And emergency room statistics have shown this. As most cases of acetaminophen overdosage has been from darvocet. For that matter, I also think I remember reading that propoxyphene itself becomes toxic at higher doses.

I have never understood why they put so much tylenol in darvocet. Atleast they now have a new lower dosage one called balacet. But I would never even touch that stuff, as it doesnt do anything better than a tylenol.

It is a shame docs still prescribe that junk, and I will be very happy if the FDA does take it off the market. But I highly highly doubt they will take off hydrocodone, oxycodone or codeine combinations with paracetamol. They ARE effective and widely used, and in most cases are adhered to under the 4g limit.