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#93091 - 04/28/04 09:33 AM
Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs?
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Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6365
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
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Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs in the needed quantities?
The main reason is that prescription drugs are being abused and diverted for recreational use. Law enforcement and regulators have a very good and valid reason for trying to control prescription drugs but their efforts are hurting patients and doctors.
The following articles will give you a good idea as to why it is so hard for legitimate patient to get the medication they need
The Village Voice Article: The DEA's War on Pain Doctors
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0345/owen.php
Quote:
The DEA's War on Pain Doctors
by Frank Owen
November 5 - 11, 2003
wenty-four years after Darlene broke her back in a swimming pool accident, crippling pain still Rules every aspect of her life, from getting up in the morning (which she describes as akin to "climbing the highest mountain") to falling into a fitful sleep at night. After years of botched surgery that left her in even more agony, she knows there is no real cure for what ails her, but thanks to synthetic opioids (which include such regulated substances as Vicodin, Dilaudid, and the devil drug of the moment, OxyContin), she says that she can now lead a halfway normal life. Just folding sheets or washing dishes or sitting at the computer are daily miracles for Darlene, who claims she would otherwise be bedridden and suicidal without the chemical crutches that high doses of these powerful opium-like painkillers provide.
But in some ways worse than the pain, says Darlene (who doesn't want her last name revealed), are the shame and fear that come with it. Shame when she goes to have her special triplicate prescription—required for all scheduled drugs—filled at the drugstore and the pharmacist looks at her as if she were some addict abusing the drug to get high. Fear that her medications will soon be taken away by the drug Enforcement Administration's ongoing crackdown on pain doctors. "You worry every day that the medicine won't be available for much longer, or your doctor won't be there tomorrow because he's been arrested by the DEA," she claims. All the bad publicity in the press about the abuse of OxyContin by celebrities such as Rush Limbaugh and Courtney Love doesn't help matters. But, says Darlene, the media scare stories shouldn't blind people to the fact that these drugs—when taken under medical supervision—have made life livable for hundreds of thousands of chronic pain patients, herself included.
Some in the medical community call it "a war on pain doctors," others "a government jihad" or "state-sponsored terrorism." However you describe the current campaign, which according to pain-patient advocates began under Janet Reno, but which they say has increased in intensity under John Ashcroft, the DEA's hardball tactics—storming clinics in SWAT-style gear, ransacking offices, and hauling off doctors in handcuffs—have scared physicians nationwide to the extent that legitimate pain sufferers now find it increasingly difficult to get the medicine they need. Doctors' offices today display signs that say "Don't ask for OxyContin" or "No OxyContin prescribed here." And medical schools advise students not to choose pain management as a career because the field is too fraught with potential legal dangers.
"The war on drugs has turned into a war on doctors and pain patients," says Dr. Ronald Myers, president of the American Pain Institute and a Baptist minister who operates a string of clinics for poor people in the Mississippi Delta. "Such is the climate of fear across the medical community that for every doctor who has his license yanked by the DEA, there are a hundred doctors scared to prescribe proper pain medication for fear of going to prison. The DEA is creating a situation where legitimate pain patients now have to go to the streets to get their medication. It's a health care catastrophe in the making." (Myers theorizes that Rush Limbaugh is probably "a neglected pain patient" and another victim of the crackdown: "Why else would someone with all his money have to go to the street to get enough medication, other than if he couldn't find a doctor to give him an adequate supply?")
Advocates for pain doctors and their patients have had enough. Limbaugh's recent admission that he's addicted to OxyContin and other painkillers has brought the issue of pain management and the law to the fore in the media. But the September arrest of northern Virginia's Dr. William Hurwitz—a respected if controversial pioneer in high-dosage pain treatment—galvanized opposition among physicians and patients to the DEA's harsh approach. Hurwitz, a leading specialist in his field, was arrested on federal drug-trafficking charges, accused of prescribing excessive quantities of OxyContin to addicts who he knew were selling the drugs on the street. The 49-count indictment alleges that his prescribing practices led to the death of three patients and bodily harm to two others. Federal prosecutors have depicted Hurwitz, a contentious figure who has had his license suspended three times by medical boards, as no better than "a street-corner crack dealer . . . who dispensed misery and death." After initially being threatened with the death penalty, Hurwitz now faces life in prison.
But others defend the doctor. "Dr. Hurwitz saved my husband's life," says Siobhan Reynolds, founder of the Pain Relief Network, a New York City-based grassroots organization defending pain doctors and their patients. For over a decade, Reynolds's husband has suffered terrible head pain caused by a connective-tissue disorder. "Other doctors treated my husband like a leper. If it weren't for Dr. Hurwitz, he would have killed himself. Dr. Hurwitz is responsible for every day that my son has a father."
After the arrest, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons condemned the prosecution at a news conference held at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., saying that doctors who treat pain patients are heroes, not felons. A major protest on the National Mall is being organized by the National Pain Patients Coalition for next April to bring attention to what some experts regard as the No. 1 health issue in America: the under-treatment of chronic pain. And a push is on in various states to get politicians to pass bills guaranteeing patients' right to opioids to alleviate their suffering, if a doctor deems it necessary.
Many doctors used to think that extreme pain was something that their patients just had to live with. The pain-management movement that has sprung up over the past few years takes a radically different tack, believing that long-term chronic pain can be managed with large amounts of synthetic opium, a treatment that remains controversial both within and outside the medical community. The extremely high doses often prescribed—sometimes dozens of pills a day—can seem dangerous and excessive to both laymen and other physicians. A number of doctors insist that these drugs are so powerful that no one should be prescribed them except end-stage cancer patients. But pain-management advocates argue that despite the scare stories, drugs such as OxyContin are actually safer than the alternatives and are much more effective.
The DEA denies there's been an increase in investigations and prosecutions of physicians and refutes the notion that it's engaged in a crackdown on pain doctors in general. The agency insists that it's after only rogue practitioners who overprescribe the medicines and who know—or should know—that their patients are selling the drugs on the black market. So far this year, says the DEA, the agency has launched 557 investigations, pursued actions against 441 doctors, and arrested 34, a small fraction of the nearly 1 million physicians licensed to dispense controlled drugs. "DEA statistics," the agency proclaimed on October 30, "show that the vast majority of practitioners registered with the DEA comply with the requirements of the Controlled Substances Act and prescribe controlled substances in a responsible manner." The agency added, "Doctors operating within the bounds of accepted medical practice have nothing to fear from the DEA."
But some doctors believe that the DEA, having conspicuously failed to stem the tide of illegal drug use in this country, is coming after physicians to ratchet up the agency's prosecution count. (This year alone, two federal reviews lambasted the DEA for its poor performance in fighting illegal drug use, one report giving the agency a zero on a scale of one to 100.)
"They're unable to take down the real drug lords, so they're coming after doctors using the same tactics," one pain physician tells the Voice. For an agency keen to justify its massive budget, doctors provide an easy target. Consider some other recent cases:
In Roanoke, Virginia, pain specialist Dr. Cecil Knox and two of his associates were accused of operating what federal prosecutors call "a pill mill." Prosecutors alleged that Knox overprescribed OxyContin and methadone to increase the profits of his financially struggling operation and that this contributed to the deaths of eight patients. Armed agents in flak jackets raided Knox's office. "They all came in with guns drawn," a clinic employee who was present during the raid reported to the Pain Relief Network. "I thought I was going to die. My husband was helping out that day, and a DEA agent came in and pointed a gun at his head and said, 'Get off the phone now.' " (As this story went to press, news came that the feds failed to win a single conviction in the case; the jury cleared Knox of 30 of the 69 charges, deadlocking on the remaining counts.) In another case of DEA strong-arm tactics, more than 20 agents burst into a Dallas pain clinic in June. The agents kicked down doors, ransacked the office of Dr. Daniel Maynard, and handcuffed patients, including an elderly woman with a stroller and an oxygen tank.
In South Carolina, physician Deborah Bordeaux was convicted earlier this year under a federal drug-kingpin statute and is currently awaiting sentencing. She faces up to 100 years in prison as a major drug dealer for dispensing opiates to patients suffering from chronic pain at a Myrtle Beach clinic, where she had worked for only two months. Dr. Benjamin Moore, who worked at the same clinic, committed suicide in July 2002 rather than testify against his co-workers.
In Arkansas, Dr. Randeep Mann claims that a patient approached him in 2002 and told him that a federal agent had offered her $250 to say that Mann had prescribed her painkillers in exchange for sex. Mann also charges that another female patient told him that local authorities had offered to forgive her cocaine arrest if she told the same lie in court. "They destroyed my practice and they've managed to run away a lot of my patients, and I can no longer prescribe opioids, but I still have my license," Mann tells the Voice.
In New Orleans, Dr. David Jarrott, who specializes in pain management, claims that an undercover DEA agent posing as a truck driver tried to entrap him by giving him fake X-rays to secure a supply of Vicodin for a supposed bad back. Jarrott also says the same agent tried to bribe him for amphetamine-based diet pills claiming he needed to stay awake while driving his truck. In early October, the doctor had his license suspended for three years after two of his patients died, one of whom, unbeknownst to Jarrott, was mixing street drugs with his legitimate medication.
In Arizona, Dr. Jeri Hassman, who runs Tucson's biggest pain practice, was indicted in March after a sting involving two undercover agents and a three-time-convicted felon. She is being threatened with a 28-year prison term because some of her patients abused prescriptions she wrote.
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It's not just on the federal level that harsh punishment is being meted out. Dr. Robert Weitzel from Utah was convicted of negligent homicide and sentenced to 15 years in prison. He gave morphine to a 91-year-old patient, who soon after died of heart disease. Weitzel won a retrial (and acquittal) in November 2002 after it was learned that a local prosecutor had concealed exculpatory evidence. In Florida in the same year, Dr. James Graves was not so lucky, becoming the first U.S. physician to be convicted of manslaughter related to an OxyContin prescription, after local authorities charged that four of his patients fatally overdosed on OxyContin, some of them after combining it with illegal street drugs. Graves contended that his patients would not have died if they had taken the drugs as directed. He is currently serving 63 years.
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Federal officials claim that nearly 500 people died from overdosing on OxyContin in 2002, but a recent article in The Journal of Analytical Toxicology could find only 12 cases in which OxyContin was the sole cause of death; all the others fell victim to poly-drug abuse—mixing OxyContin with cocaine, alcohol, Valium, or various other substances.
"Opioids when taken under clinical supervision are not that dangerous," says the American Pain Institute's Myers. "The data tells us that only 3 percent of people who take opioids become addicts. The latest research conclusively shows that the best medicines for the treatment of chronic pain are narcotics. They have less side effects and more benefits than any other type of drug."
More dangerous, contends Myers, are the everyday drugs that pain sufferers turn to when they can't get narcotics. He talks about something called "suicide by Tylenol": "When chronic pain patients can't get opioids, they go out and use tremendous amounts of drugs like Tylenol and Motrin, which can cause serious liver and kidney damage. Pain patients are dying from kidney and liver disease because of this."
Many pain patients are also dying by their own hand, according to the Pain Relief Network's Reynolds. "All over America, pain patients are committing suicide because of the DEA's campaign," she claims. "I know of at least 17 recent cases in Arkansas alone. It's really astonishing the amount of human carnage that this campaign has already caused."
Fumes Myers: "What's going on here is morally reprehensible and medically incomprehensible and it has to stop. Doctors who treat pain patients are not criminals."
A not so satirical piece of advice to doctors by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc
Quote:
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc
Quote:
ADVICE TO DOCTORS RE: PAIN MANAGEMENT
(or "What the government has taught doctors.")
Until wrongs are righted and procedural changes are made, physicians have little choice other than to be unusually suspicious of new patients, to require unnecessary and expensive tests, to waste time on excessive documentation, or to turn away suffering patients, even if they think the patients may not find anyone else to treat them.
If you're thinking about getting into pain management using opioids as appropriate:
DON'T. Forget what you learned in medical school -- drug agents now set medical standards.
If you do, first discuss the risks with your family.
They could lose a mother or father or breadwinner, their home, their car, their college fund;
There could be years of harassment and legal fees;
Your colleagues will probably ostracize you and family members at the first sign of trouble.
If you are already prescribing opioids:
Beware of new patients. If you accept a new patient, do background checks, demand old records before writing the first Rx, obtain urine screens and get them to sign opioid contracts. It is safer to turn them down, explain why, and give them an action item (call their congressman, for example).
Do thorough physicals, even if unnecessary and not helpful.
Make voluminous notes.
Exercise zero tolerance for patient slip-ups (such as losing a prescription).
Beware of any patients with a history of drug abuse. Even if now clean and in genuine pain, they might be induced by government zealots to testify against you to save themselves from imprisonment on drug charges.
Refer patients early and often to addictionologists, orthopedists, pain specialists, psychologists, regardless of expense or your opinion of helpfulness.
Keep a low profile and beware of saying anything that might offend an official of law enforcement, the licensure board, or the state medical society.
Never forget that you could be held to a standard of strict liability for any patient misbehavior or for any bad outcomes such as death, no matter the cause and without regard to the culpability of the patient or his associates. Remember, your medical decisions will be reviewed by drug agents who will decide if your actions were medically reasonable.
Consider phasing out this part of your practice, giving patients plenty of time to find another doctor.
   
You are most welcome to contribute to this topic / thread by posting below.
Edited by DrugBuyers (06/02/04 12:54 PM)
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#93093 - 04/29/04 01:41 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
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Banned. Flames, offending others
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 210
Loc: Hell on Earth, for now
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I cannot even believe that that is real, or legal for that matter!!
I am so stunned to even read that. We need to repeat that message everywhere we can, so we can drive home to people, doctors, legislators, anyone, how draconian laws and regulations have become.
We need to show everyone how absurd things have gotten, and how pain management has been reduced to nothing.
The US war on patients has grown out of control.
I've copied and pasted the article, and I intend to show it to anyone I can think of, including my own doctors. When confronted with it, SOMEone has got to be embarrassed.
red
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#93095 - 06/17/04 12:35 PM
Re: Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs?
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Board Addict
Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 163
Loc: Southeast US
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I can believe it. It makes total sense, seeing what I've been through for the past 3 years. It's amazing how the DEA controls a field that they truly have no business in - medicine. They are there to (I thought??) take care of illegal distribution of drugs that are being bought and sold illegally on the streets. Crack, cocaine, heroin and even illegally purchased and sold opiates - but the Feds are more interested in coming down on the patients that require these meds to stay alive, or at least live a life that is nearly free of pain (I would say mine is a 7-9 without meds and with meds is a 2 or 3, or 1 on a great day).
I do believe that those in the public eye who have used and abused drugs have upped the anty in regard to how the DEA looks at and acts in accordance to their drug arrests, but generally, they are, IMHO, being directed to arrest and then prosecute doctors who are prescribing medication to patients who will either abuse their meds or take them as prescribed. How can a doctor be responsible for an individual's actions? I believe that there is way too little accountibility for one's own actions in this country. We are always trying to find someone to blame if something horrific happens that is not the fault of another. There has to be someone to blame (but those in power of prosecution cannot look at it as individual accountibility), so the DEA is now directing their attentions to doctors who write for opiates. I cannot receive adequate medical care at all, and rely upon OP's for my medical care and to be able to do the things I used to do without the pain. I wake up and cannot even move - if this were to be my life, it would really just be existing.
I feel horrible for everyone suffering with pain and cannot find the adequate care we all deserve. I am paying exorbitant prices that I can't really afford, when, if I were to go through my HMO, we could have much more for our kids, our retirement, etc. It's absurd and reprehensible.
Corrie
_________________________
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#93098 - 06/30/04 09:23 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 179
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i can tell you thier gain, its just like the recent story of a kid who got meds online and died from an od. thats the gain, the politicians use stories like that to shut everything down, and im truly sorry this kid died, but the policy makers have to realize the #s of real pain patients who exist, if i didnt have my meds i would not make it thru a day, so in a way i would be like this boy, so by making all these hard Rules, and scaring docs with thier liscenses, these politicians are going to cause alot of people who barely can get thru a day as it is, not be able to get thru a day, they will be the cause of many people 2nd guessing life because the pain is too great and it will be too hard to get meds too help, god help them make the right choice
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#93099 - 07/01/04 06:30 AM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
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Member
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 99
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Yeah its the "Think of the Children!" motto. Nobody DISlikes kids, so doing things "in their best interest" is always politically easier than doing it to police ourselves.
They didn't mention the kids who were shot that day by thugs for doing nothing wrong, they didn't mention the children who died because they stuck forks in electrical outlets that day, they didn't mention that *most* of the population of the world doesn't have running water - they mention the one kid who got stupid and ate too many pills, then demonize the OP who sold them to him, and consequently OPs in general.
This sickens me, but it happens all the time. The OP who sold a kid drugs needs a spanking, if not a Louisville Sluggering, but the fault isn't with OPs it is with ONE OP and one irresponsible child who apparently somehow managed to order enough h/c to kill himself.
Sorry to rant, but using ONE child who himself made the mistake to justify attacking a medium that many people have grown to NEED is so ludicrous that...well hell, now I need a Valium.
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#93101 - 07/07/04 07:57 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
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Member
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 99
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Agreed - I guess we can go back and forth on the issue all night nodding in agreement, probably with most of the people reading this too. And probably even with most of the lawmakers, secretly.
Eventually common sense will prevail - eventually it will not be a sin to improve our lives through the aid and knowledge of biologists and chemists.
Soon maybe some people won't have to hire a doctor (who is now a criminal, we are told) to kill them to put them out of their misery.
Suddenly, everyone will wake up and think "holy cow, this is crazy - a LOT of people WANT to participate in this world but CANNOT because they are in crippling pain for which the only relief is illegal because some people enjoy it"
I don't know where I'm going with this, just venting I guess. Legally enforced morality, and about something so important to so many people. Is that what it has come down to?
Didn't England make Heroin legal for a couple years some time back? Whatever happened with that, anyway, did the numbers look too good so they got blown under a rug and the law crept back in place, or was the whole experiment actually a failure, does anybody happen to know offhand?
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#93102 - 07/07/04 09:54 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 212
Loc: Nordstroms
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Quote:
Eventually common sense will prevail
Flippie,
I'm not wanting to misquote you, but that part of your statement quoted above was one of the best I've seen in a long time. I hope this happens in my life. In the meantime I'll just stick to the notion that common sense is not that common.
I agree with many others who posted that much of this is political gain using the "must protect the children" arguement. Maybe seatbelts in school buses... no outlaw the evil drugs.
Let's not forget, that our government "subsidizes" TV shows that have stories lines that perpetuate evil drug stories. The general public is constantly being fed misinformation regarding the use of narcotic pain meds. Do Oprah and Dr Phil do shows on people in chronic pain being treated like dog dodo in the medical system or do we see the housewife addicted to xanax going off to rehab? I'd love to see a national debate on pain management in this country. Even NPR has jumped on the bandwagon talking about oxycontin being just a click away from your teenager.
OK, I've ranted enough. I want common sense to prevail, sure wish there was more of it.
Sam
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#93103 - 07/08/04 09:26 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
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Member
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 99
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Sam;
If I could argue with you, I would. I am usually pretty good at finding SOMETHING to argue about, but I agree entirely. I do think that there are at least some reasons to feel a little optimism.
If I understand correctly, for instance, the E.U. decided that membership would require nations to maintain a certain maximum rate of violent crime, so many European nations are starting to realize that their billions of crime-fighting tax dollars could be better used elsewhere. It took someone to grab them and shake them and yell for a while, but now it seems that this common sense is becoming a contageous meme. We can only hope.
I think of it this way - we live in a Democracy, which is for all practical purposes an organized mob- Rules social philosophy (with some checks and balances built in). When a Democracy works perfectly, when exactly everyone gets an equal share of the vote, the outcome of that vote is going to reflect the average person, including the average I.Q.
So change comes slowly. People need reasons to stop believing lies and hype, otherwise they won't. As long as being anti- drug is fashionable, the lies will be with us, the exo-toxic memes we surround ourselves with. As long as the public is tapping it's feet to it, it is not going to change. We need either another focus, or to wash drug use into the mainstream, and I mean AM radio type mainstream.
As soon as Britney Spears admits she shoots Oxy and her mom helps her with the needle, and she writes a popular, catchy song about it, then we'll see the first crack of hope.
When the weatherman says on T.V. "...and it's going to be a stormy one out there folks, it'd be a good day to curl up in front of the fireplace with a loved one and a joint" and not get fired, then progress will have been made.
Like when African-American people first started using the proverbial N word to describe themselves, or gays began using queer - we could take the wind out of their sails.
Those two particular examples are not really the same thing though, so let's knock on Formica that history repeats itself, and we get tired of wasting our money on fruitless nonsense.
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#93106 - 09/08/04 10:16 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Member
Registered: 12/12/01
Posts: 64
Loc: Southern USA
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#93110 - 04/26/06 08:02 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1794
Loc: The Sunshine State
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RSDhurst2,
I have RSD also. I can tell you right now you need to find a new doctor. I am sorry but I have been living with RSD for 6 years now and Hydrocodone is no where near strong enough to battle RSD. RSD is one of the most painfull diseases there are. Hydrocodone is for tooth aches and back pain that comes and goes. It is no match for RSD. If you need to use an ROP while you search for an RSD Specialist, that's one thing. But, it will not help for long.
Are you seeing a Neurologist? Has the Neurologist referred you to a pain specialist who specializes in RSD?
The day I was diagnosed with RSD, I had already been on Percocet for MS and was put on Oxycontin the day I was diagnosed. The neurologist prescribed the first fill and then set up an appointment for me in three weeks with an RSD Specialist. From there we tried a buffet of different pain med cocktails trying to find the best one for me.
Your problem is not "Doctors". Your problem is Your Doctor. RSD is a life sentence of pain, pain and more pain. Some days are moderate and some days are severe. Then there are those few days where you are in the ER.
I am now using Methadone (BY FAR, THE Best Pain Medication I have ever been on) with Percocet for BT and Actiq Pops when needed. If the pops are not cutting it, it's off to the ER.
For the ER, I have a card with my photo on it that I have to show when I go to the ER and I do not even sit down in the waiting room. I am ushered immediately into a room and and given a shot of Fentanyl while they get the IV inserted and the pump hooked up with the Fentanyl flowing. I don't respond well to Morphine so my chart says FENTANYL in huge red letters across the center.
Of course my point in telling you this is that there are good doctors out there. The reason I was given the Chronic Pain Patient ID Card was because of my first visit to the ER.
Like all my previous trips to the ER in NJ they had me sitting in the waiting room for four hours and then in a curtain room for another two hours with no pain medication. Meanwhile, I had a fever of 104 and my knee was red hot! I finally asked them to call my pain doctor and they looked at me like I was nuts. The nurse asked, who is your pain doctor? When I said his name she just turned and walked away. Within 5 minutes I had a shot of 150 mgs of Demerol and they had him on the phone.
After he got my status, he called my orthopedist, Dr. B and sent him to the hospital and told them to give me 50mg shots as I needed them until Dr. B arrived. I had had a knee replacement two months earlier so 104 fever and a hot knee is serious! He arrived at the hospital in about an hour and it was now 1am. He stuck what looked like a 10 foot needle into my knee cap and extracted this green looking slime.
I had a very serious infection and was admitted for three weeks.
So, after that episode, my pain doctor gave me the card. Apparently my pain doc is very well known at this hospital and when the staff see one of these cards, they jump. He works strictly for my Orthopedist, Dr. B. He doesn't take on any patients not sent to him by Dr. B.
My Orthopedist, who travels all over the world to do knee surgeries, is one of the designers of the new material used for knee and hip replacements now. He is quite well respected in the field. I got very lucky getting in with him. Last summer when I was in the waiting room for a regular visit with Dr. B, Joe Namath was the patient before me.
I had no idea he was so talented. He didn't do my knee replacement. I had it done in another state. After rehab, my doctor in NJ was concerned about the way it was healing and he sent me to Florida to see this doctor. All I was told at the time was that they had gone to medical school together and he wanted him to take a look.
I was on a plane two days later and I never went back to NJ.
Sorry for going on and on. My point is that there are good doctors out there. You need to do your research and find one that is an expert in his field, in your case RSD.
There has been a LOT of advances in the treatment of RSD lately. If you want to PM my what state you live in, I will see if maybe I can help you find an RSD specialist.
Shane
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#93111 - 05/09/06 03:18 AM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Stranger
Registered: 02/07/06
Posts: 14
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I too are one of those people who suffer on a daily basis,sometimes I wonder how I"m going to make it through another day????Even simple tasks of daily living are extremely diff. for me,Its emoitionally wearing on me,Im only 46 yrs. old,I dont want to live like an invalid!!!!I have 7 children,2 still at home,14 and 9,my husband is a para medic and works long days,I push myself so hard everyday just to have a normal life.Im sick of tired of being in pain,not just like a minor ache,but the kind of pain u want to go to the emergency room for.I don"t want to be looked down apon as a med seeker,so I just take what they give me and don"t complain.I have been complacent with the fact this is my life,my burden to bear,it just seems so inhuman to let a person suffer this way.Ive had a fusion on L3 to S1,and one year later a fusion on C4 to C6,my cervical fusion has caused me more pain than prior to the surgery,if I would have know It was going to make things worse,I would have lived with the intial pain.My cervical fusion did not heal,one of my screws has shifted completely through the bone and the top of screw is in the disc below it.As of a result of the fusion,the vertebra above and below it as take on extra stress and now they are damaged.I"ve been on lortab 10/500 for the last yr and my surgeon changed it to percocet 5/550 and it did"t help any more than the Lortab,so I asked him to just put me back on the Lortab,it"s a hassle to fill the percocrt Rx,u have to pick up the Rx as it cann"t be called in.I"m currently going through epidural steroid injectins,and in the mean while I have surgical date for June 9 th ,if they don"t help.The first one has had no affect other than making me really irritable,anxious and gives me insomnia bad.I really don"t want to have a revision surgery as I know the odds of a good out come go down with consecutive surgeries,but I can"t live in this much pain for very much longer,I feel like I have no options at this point,I can"t get any relief even with the lortab.My husband and kids say I should go back to the Dr. and ask for something stronger,but I feel vwry uncomfortable asking for stronger pain meds,I feel like they would look at me like some kind of drug seeker,so I just suffer.Whats really ironic about my pain is,I don"t have any pain in my neck,its in my upper back,around my L scapula,its like a stabbing lanceating pain every couple of seconds,it will start a couple of hrs. after I get up in the am,and then it won"t stop untill I go to bed,the only thiong that releives it is laying down or sitting semi-rclined.Now if I could do that all day I would be ok,but I have 2 children,14 and 9 who r very active and my husband works very long days as a papa medic for a big city,he leaves the house at 6:30 am and doesNt get home till 8:om,thats pretty much the entire day.And to make matters worse,I have OCD,My house has to be impectably clean,everything has to be perfect looking.I bought my first house 3 mos ago,at age 46,and I want everthing to be perfect.So I push myself really hard every day to make this my dream home,I can"t help myself,I have to have everything in order,everything has to look good.My husband,children and family don"t understand me????They think just because I can push myself to get things done,I must not be in that much pain.But Im so used to being in pain,I just work through it,because I fel like I have to.They have no idea how bad I suffer,I just keep pushing my self to get er done.I have to,I"m not ready to give up the way I want my life to be,It would be a miracle to me to be able to control my pain.It"s very difficult for peolpe to comprehend that a person could suffer in excruiating pain every day and still keep up with every one else.Its a lonely road I walk alone,and only I know how it feels to walk this road,pain is subjective,not objective,u can"t see someone"s pain.or feel it.only the person affected can feel it.thats why Dr.s arent very sympathetic,its a subjective finding,not objective.Objective means u can feel,see,haer a finding,pain is subjective,its somehting a person feels,a Dr. cannot feel your pain.He knows if u break a arm or leg,its going to be painful,obviously,but when u suffer from pain from say a nerve,its not as obvious,never the less as painful.Dr.S like to see objective symptoms or findings to explain your pain,and when nerves are involved its very diff to for them to believe you if u don"t have some objective findings to back it up.I am a person with a med backround,and Dr.s want to see a reason explaining your pain.Thanx for letting me unload on all u nice people out there,I pray for all of you u find a way to decrease and cope with your suffering.God Bless All of you
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#93114 - 05/26/06 12:04 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 757
Loc: NY, USA
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The gov't and DEA are CRIMINALIZING doctors for doing their job!!! They became doctors with intentions of helping people (and let's face it...making alot of $) but their hands have been tied by big brother. It won't change until WE DEMAND CHANGE!
Look what a bunch of illegal aliens who broke the law (and continue to do so) to get into this country, are getting accomplished by making alot of noise! They are demanding rights when they shouldn't be here in the first d@mn place! Somehow in this @ss backwards society of ours, these lawbreaking illegal aliens have lit a fire under the @ss of congress. (Even Bush...the useless moron behind the wheel, driving this country into the ground, is losing sleep over the cr@p the illegals are pulling...can we please use restraint & try not to turn this into a debate about Bush by the way!)
WE have even more power to affect change by being citizens! We all need to get together and hold some of those protests and DEMAND fair and ethical treatment by our doctors! We have a right to humane treatment! Flood your congressmans office with letters demanding change! If a derelict on death row for murder, can appeal his death sentence by claiming that it's "cruel and unusual punishment" we should be doing at least that and call this what it is...CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT for innocent victims and chronic pain sufferers who didn't ask to have their lives turned upside down by prepetual suffering.
Doctors who treat pain patients are over a barrel. It has nothing to do with their personal opinions of people who need to control pain w/drugs. Think about it, do you really think they want to invest time and aggrivation in fighting with a "pill head" by making them jump through hoops to prove they're in pain? Not even a little bit! They'd much rather write that script, get paid and move on to the next paycheck, oops, I mean patient!
They CAN'T do that because of the cloud of harrassment that hangs over their heads. They go to work every day knowing that for every prescription they write that's on the DEA's red flag list, they increase their chances of harrassment.
They are investigated, scrutinized and faced with serious consequence every time they pick up that pen. They live with the knowledge that losing their license, practice and even serving jail time could be just a stroke of the pen away. Then what happens to their families? They face losing everything, not being able to put food on their tables or pay for thier kid's education when they're sued by the gov't and all their assets get seized. They will have to spend everything they've worked hard for just to pay their legal expenses to defend themselves. Read up about some of the things doctors have gone through for legitametely treating pain sufferers (some of whom are terminally ill!)
It really isn't personal. It's hard not to take it that way when you're on the receiving end of the abuse, as I too have been, but they have too much to loose. This by no means makes it right and while there are some, there need to be alot more doctors who are willing to fight for what's right. Willing to fight for what they invested so much time and money learning how to do...helping people.
Mark my words, if we don't start fighting back this will be just the beginning of a new era of medicine controlled by gov't scare tactics and if we let them get away with it, it will only be the beginning of a new world of dictatorship in a country that is supposed to be free for it's people. When the gov't (who are NOT medical pofessionals) starts dictating to my doctor how to treat my illnesses, it's high time to worry! Panic even! We aren't helpless...let's stop this NOW!!! We CAN do it, it's time to remember who gives these idiots their jobs when the ballot boxes are open. Write your gov't officials and DEMAND CHANGE! Save a copy and send two a day! Let's start harrassing back!!!!!!!!!!!!
If they are going to make my life harder and cause any unjust suffering in my life, the VERY LEAST I can do is make sure they get to go home everyday with a BIG FAT headache with my name written all over it!
Attachments
_________________________
Diplomacy is...the art of letting someone have your way.
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#93116 - 05/26/06 12:24 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/18/05
Posts: 757
Loc: NY, USA
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I'm in the process of contacting Anderson Cooper of CNN, he's a fantastic "expos`e" type reporter who seems to be pretty powerful in drawing attention to a topic. I'm also going to talk with some of the doctors and supporters of Pain.Com, the American Pain Society (www.ampainsoc.org) The American Chronic Pain Association (theacpa.org)the American Academy of Pain Management (aapainmanage.org) and Partners Against Pain (partnersagainstpain.com) for some help and support trying to start assembling rallies and protests. TALK TO YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILIES!!! Tell them if they hear about it, get involved! After all...in a split second life altering circumstance, it could be them in these shoes! This topic affects everyone, not just people who are already in some type of CP. I won't give up until I know that if it were one of my children, that they wouldn't have to suffer needlessly at the hands of a political pet project! My fury started when I was talking to a new doctor about my migraines several years ago (a result of my accident related head injury) and before I finished describing my symptoms of a bad one, he interrupted to declare that often people come in complaining of headaches just to obtain drugs! I was horrified....and FURIOUS! He wasn't even listening to me. I guess in his mind, I was just seeking drugs so I could spend my days and nights looped and useless to my children with no intention of actually figuring out what is at the root of the problem so I could actually stop the d@mn things! Nope...I must just be another well dressed junkie too good to go to the local drug dealer (who is always sympathetic as long as your money is green) to buy some heroin, so instead, I'd rather be verbally assaulted by a medical professional in the hopes of obtaining some lame headache medicine that I'd have to take 20 of just to catch a buzz....or get very sick, whatever comes first! That's the goal of us CP junkies, you know. We can choose to continue to be violated like this, or do something...I will die fighting if need be! This is not a legacy that I will allow my children to inherit!
_________________________
Diplomacy is...the art of letting someone have your way.
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#93117 - 06/01/06 11:07 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Stranger
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 1
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I'm totally new to this, and I don't really know what I'm doing, so I'm looking for a little guidance here....
When I was 15 I fell off a mountain bike and damaged my spine...I don't know as much about it as the other posters here, but my orthopedic surgeon told me I had crushed the lowest vertebrae in my back (before my hip) and a piece of it was now gone forever. He told me there was nothing he could do, and I would have to learn to live with the pain and perscribed me naprosyn (before was OTC) for the pain.
Well, as you probably all know here, the Aleve didn't do anything for the pain ever, and I completely abandoned taking anything by about 18, but he was right, I learned to live with it. I am now 26 and I live an active life, but there is constant pain my lower back.
I hate doctors, I hate the way they treat me. I am an attorney, I see how stupid and unprofessional some physicians are, both in my personal and professional life. I would like to have some more control in my own situation. I really have no idea how to go about this, but I feel like living in constant pain entitles me to something. In my life I have broken both bones in my left arm twice, my right wrist twice, my right ankle, my right collar-bone, twice in the same place (now permanantly weakend) one of my fingers, my rib, and my nose. Additionally I was in a motorcycle accident and did something pretty bad to my legs, in the socket where the connect to the hip, but I never really had it checked out. (I sometimes get shooting pain in my hip if I move in a certain way)
In spite of all that, I live an active life, and I really am not even looking for a heavy medication. All I want is something to numb the pain at night so I can spend a few hours in peace and go to sleep. I really feel I have a right to treatment, but I'm so far outside of the healthcare system I don't know what to do. And I do worry about the legality of all this. I don't want to go to jail or loose my license. I just want access to something that someone in my situation with my documented medical history ought to have. Thank you all for doing this. And to everyone that stands up and lives the best life they can in pain, God Bless you all.
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#93119 - 07/05/06 09:30 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Stranger
Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 5
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I'm 23 years old, and I too, have OCD, and Tourrette's, ADD, Chronic pain in my back, my knee, my ankle, and my shoulder.
I know first hand how Drs treat people. I'm not old and don't have Cancer yet, and I have long hair. Basically, when I walk into the office the first thing they think is "Heroin Addict trying to get a fix"...
It digusts me and has given me a complete hatred towards the DEA and the medical field of America in General.
I had finally found a Dr who could help me out (I was taking up to 12 Vicodin ES each and every day while having Liver tests done every few months, which showed no damage or starts of damage just to make sure it was not killing me) and then some one drive a car into the building he works in.
Turns out this guy was a Dr shopper and had a list of 9 Drs he would go to for Vicodin.
Of course the dea (I refuse to capitolize that) investigated, and during that time, I couldn't get Vicodin.
He gave me Ultracet (Can you say head ache that makes you want to kill yourself?) which didn't work at all.
I went into the ER finally after not being able to take the pain anymore where they gave me some HydroMorphone.
that worked good for a few hours and a few months later, I was able to get Vicodin ES agani, and then Norco.
Well, last month, he cut me off. Ultracet again.
*Sigh*
I drive to Canada, bought some 222s, and have been living off those for now.
They barely work, but they work better than these Ultracet tabs.
I've actually been told once by an ER Dr "Lose some weight and take Motrin"... I'm DEATHLY allergic to Anti Inflammitories, including but not limited too:
Motrin, Aspirin, Celebrex....And even the Cortizone shot I was told wouldn't react the same way... The next day after the Cortizone shot I was in the ER, my skin BRIGHT Red, hot to the touch, and trouble breathing.
I almost died because another Dr looked at a "young punk kid with long hair" thinking I only wanted to get high.
It pisses me off. The worse part is that these thngs don't even make me feel high. even a shot of Morphine on an empty stomache didn't even give me a buzz.
So not only do they not make me feel stoned, but the Drs seem to think it's why I'm there.
And yes, I do have multiple MRIs, Xrays, and physical therapy sesssions under my belt proving that not only do I have a valid need but that I've also tried everything else.
This alone makes me absolutely HATE the United States. We won't show cruel or un-usual punishment to a murderer, but we have no problem torturing someone in pain.
Have a good 4th of July anyone? I didn't celebrate.
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#93123 - 08/13/06 08:12 AM
Re: Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs?
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Journeyman
Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 81
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Quote:
Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs in the needed quantities?
The main reason is that prescription drugs are being abused and diverted for recreational use. Law enforcement and regulators have a very good and valid reason for trying to control prescription drugs but their efforts are hurting patients and doctors.
The following articles will give you a good idea as to why it is so hard for legitimate patient to get the medication they need
The Village Voice Article: The DEA's War on Pain Doctors
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0345/owen.php
Quote:
The DEA's War on Pain Doctors
by Frank Owen
November 5 - 11, 2003
wenty-four years after Darlene broke her back in a swimming pool accident, crippling pain still Rules every aspect of her life, from getting up in the morning (which she describes as akin to "climbing the highest mountain") to falling into a fitful sleep at night. After years of botched surgery that left her in even more agony, she knows there is no real cure for what ails her, but thanks to synthetic opioids (which include such regulated substances as Vicodin, Dilaudid, and the devil drug of the moment, OxyContin), she says that she can now lead a halfway normal life. Just folding sheets or washing dishes or sitting at the computer are daily miracles for Darlene, who claims she would otherwise be bedridden and suicidal without the chemical crutches that high doses of these powerful opium-like painkillers provide.
But in some ways worse than the pain, says Darlene (who doesn't want her last name revealed), are the shame and fear that come with it. Shame when she goes to have her special triplicate prescription—required for all scheduled drugs—filled at the drugstore and the pharmacist looks at her as if she were some addict abusing the drug to get high. Fear that her medications will soon be taken away by the drug Enforcement Administration's ongoing crackdown on pain doctors. "You worry every day that the medicine won't be available for much longer, or your doctor won't be there tomorrow because he's been arrested by the DEA," she claims. All the bad publicity in the press about the abuse of OxyContin by celebrities such as Rush Limbaugh and Courtney Love doesn't help matters. But, says Darlene, the media scare stories shouldn't blind people to the fact that these drugs—when taken under medical supervision—have made life livable for hundreds of thousands of chronic pain patients, herself included.
Some in the medical community call it "a war on pain doctors," others "a government jihad" or "state-sponsored terrorism." However you describe the current campaign, which according to pain-patient advocates began under Janet Reno, but which they say has increased in intensity under John Ashcroft, the DEA's hardball tactics—storming clinics in SWAT-style gear, ransacking offices, and hauling off doctors in handcuffs—have scared physicians nationwide to the extent that legitimate pain sufferers now find it increasingly difficult to get the medicine they need. Doctors' offices today display signs that say "Don't ask for OxyContin" or "No OxyContin prescribed here." And medical schools advise students not to choose pain management as a career because the field is too fraught with potential legal dangers.
"The war on drugs has turned into a war on doctors and pain patients," says Dr. Ronald Myers, president of the American Pain Institute and a Baptist minister who operates a string of clinics for poor people in the Mississippi Delta. "Such is the climate of fear across the medical community that for every doctor who has his license yanked by the DEA, there are a hundred doctors scared to prescribe proper pain medication for fear of going to prison. The DEA is creating a situation where legitimate pain patients now have to go to the streets to get their medication. It's a health care catastrophe in the making." (Myers theorizes that Rush Limbaugh is probably "a neglected pain patient" and another victim of the crackdown: "Why else would someone with all his money have to go to the street to get enough medication, other than if he couldn't find a doctor to give him an adequate supply?")
Advocates for pain doctors and their patients have had enough. Limbaugh's recent admission that he's addicted to OxyContin and other painkillers has brought the issue of pain management and the law to the fore in the media. But the September arrest of northern Virginia's Dr. William Hurwitz—a respected if controversial pioneer in high-dosage pain treatment—galvanized opposition among physicians and patients to the DEA's harsh approach. Hurwitz, a leading specialist in his field, was arrested on federal drug-trafficking charges, accused of prescribing excessive quantities of OxyContin to addicts who he knew were selling the drugs on the street. The 49-count indictment alleges that his prescribing practices led to the death of three patients and bodily harm to two others. Federal prosecutors have depicted Hurwitz, a contentious figure who has had his license suspended three times by medical boards, as no better than "a street-corner crack dealer . . . who dispensed misery and death." After initially being threatened with the death penalty, Hurwitz now faces life in prison.
But others defend the doctor. "Dr. Hurwitz saved my husband's life," says Siobhan Reynolds, founder of the Pain Relief Network, a New York City-based grassroots organization defending pain doctors and their patients. For over a decade, Reynolds's husband has suffered terrible head pain caused by a connective-tissue disorder. "Other doctors treated my husband like a leper. If it weren't for Dr. Hurwitz, he would have killed himself. Dr. Hurwitz is responsible for every day that my son has a father."
After the arrest, the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons condemned the prosecution at a news conference held at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., saying that doctors who treat pain patients are heroes, not felons. A major protest on the National Mall is being organized by the National Pain Patients Coalition for next April to bring attention to what some experts regard as the No. 1 health issue in America: the under-treatment of chronic pain. And a push is on in various states to get politicians to pass bills guaranteeing patients' right to opioids to alleviate their suffering, if a doctor deems it necessary.
Many doctors used to think that extreme pain was something that their patients just had to live with. The pain-management movement that has sprung up over the past few years takes a radically different tack, believing that long-term chronic pain can be managed with large amounts of synthetic opium, a treatment that remains controversial both within and outside the medical community. The extremely high doses often prescribed—sometimes dozens of pills a day—can seem dangerous and excessive to both laymen and other physicians. A number of doctors insist that these drugs are so powerful that no one should be prescribed them except end-stage cancer patients. But pain-management advocates argue that despite the scare stories, drugs such as OxyContin are actually safer than the alternatives and are much more effective.
The DEA denies there's been an increase in investigations and prosecutions of physicians and refutes the notion that it's engaged in a crackdown on pain doctors in general. The agency insists that it's after only rogue practitioners who overprescribe the medicines and who know—or should know—that their patients are selling the drugs on the black market. So far this year, says the DEA, the agency has launched 557 investigations, pursued actions against 441 doctors, and arrested 34, a small fraction of the nearly 1 million physicians licensed to dispense controlled drugs. "DEA statistics," the agency proclaimed on October 30, "show that the vast majority of practitioners registered with the DEA comply with the requirements of the Controlled Substances Act and prescribe controlled substances in a responsible manner." The agency added, "Doctors operating within the bounds of accepted medical practice have nothing to fear from the DEA."
But some doctors believe that the DEA, having conspicuously failed to stem the tide of illegal drug use in this country, is coming after physicians to ratchet up the agency's prosecution count. (This year alone, two federal reviews lambasted the DEA for its poor performance in fighting illegal drug use, one report giving the agency a zero on a scale of one to 100.)
"They're unable to take down the real drug lords, so they're coming after doctors using the same tactics," one pain physician tells the Voice. For an agency keen to justify its massive budget, doctors provide an easy target. Consider some other recent cases:
In Roanoke, Virginia, pain specialist Dr. Cecil Knox and two of his associates were accused of operating what federal prosecutors call "a pill mill." Prosecutors alleged that Knox overprescribed OxyContin and methadone to increase the profits of his financially struggling operation and that this contributed to the deaths of eight patients. Armed agents in flak jackets raided Knox's office. "They all came in with guns drawn," a clinic employee who was present during the raid reported to the Pain Relief Network. "I thought I was going to die. My husband was helping out that day, and a DEA agent came in and pointed a gun at his head and said, 'Get off the phone now.' " (As this story went to press, news came that the feds failed to win a single conviction in the case; the jury cleared Knox of 30 of the 69 charges, deadlocking on the remaining counts.) In another case of DEA strong-arm tactics, more than 20 agents burst into a Dallas pain clinic in June. The agents kicked down doors, ransacked the office of Dr. Daniel Maynard, and handcuffed patients, including an elderly woman with a stroller and an oxygen tank.
In South Carolina, physician Deborah Bordeaux was convicted earlier this year under a federal drug-kingpin statute and is currently awaiting sentencing. She faces up to 100 years in prison as a major drug dealer for dispensing opiates to patients suffering from chronic pain at a Myrtle Beach clinic, where she had worked for only two months. Dr. Benjamin Moore, who worked at the same clinic, committed suicide in July 2002 rather than testify against his co-workers.
In Arkansas, Dr. Randeep Mann claims that a patient approached him in 2002 and told him that a federal agent had offered her $250 to say that Mann had prescribed her painkillers in exchange for sex. Mann also charges that another female patient told him that local authorities had offered to forgive her cocaine arrest if she told the same lie in court. "They destroyed my practice and they've managed to run away a lot of my patients, and I can no longer prescribe opioids, but I still have my license," Mann tells the Voice.
In New Orleans, Dr. David Jarrott, who specializes in pain management, claims that an undercover DEA agent posing as a truck driver tried to entrap him by giving him fake X-rays to secure a supply of Vicodin for a supposed bad back. Jarrott also says the same agent tried to bribe him for amphetamine-based diet pills claiming he needed to stay awake while driving his truck. In early October, the doctor had his license suspended for three years after two of his patients died, one of whom, unbeknownst to Jarrott, was mixing street drugs with his legitimate medication.
In Arizona, Dr. Jeri Hassman, who runs Tucson's biggest pain practice, was indicted in March after a sting involving two undercover agents and a three-time-convicted felon. She is being threatened with a 28-year prison term because some of her patients abused prescriptions she wrote.
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It's not just on the federal level that harsh punishment is being meted out. Dr. Robert Weitzel from Utah was convicted of negligent homicide and sentenced to 15 years in prison. He gave morphine to a 91-year-old patient, who soon after died of heart disease. Weitzel won a retrial (and acquittal) in November 2002 after it was learned that a local prosecutor had concealed exculpatory evidence. In Florida in the same year, Dr. James Graves was not so lucky, becoming the first U.S. physician to be convicted of manslaughter related to an OxyContin prescription, after local authorities charged that four of his patients fatally overdosed on OxyContin, some of them after combining it with illegal street drugs. Graves contended that his patients would not have died if they had taken the drugs as directed. He is currently serving 63 years.
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Federal officials claim that nearly 500 people died from overdosing on OxyContin in 2002, but a recent article in The Journal of Analytical Toxicology could find only 12 cases in which OxyContin was the sole cause of death; all the others fell victim to poly-drug abuse—mixing OxyContin with cocaine, alcohol, Valium, or various other substances.
"Opioids when taken under clinical supervision are not that dangerous," says the American Pain Institute's Myers. "The data tells us that only 3 percent of people who take opioids become addicts. The latest research conclusively shows that the best medicines for the treatment of chronic pain are narcotics. They have less side effects and more benefits than any other type of drug."
More dangerous, contends Myers, are the everyday drugs that pain sufferers turn to when they can't get narcotics. He talks about something called "suicide by Tylenol": "When chronic pain patients can't get opioids, they go out and use tremendous amounts of drugs like Tylenol and Motrin, which can cause serious liver and kidney damage. Pain patients are dying from kidney and liver disease because of this."
Many pain patients are also dying by their own hand, according to the Pain Relief Network's Reynolds. "All over America, pain patients are committing suicide because of the DEA's campaign," she claims. "I know of at least 17 recent cases in Arkansas alone. It's really astonishing the amount of human carnage that this campaign has already caused."
Fumes Myers: "What's going on here is morally reprehensible and medically incomprehensible and it has to stop. Doctors who treat pain patients are not criminals."
A not so satirical piece of advice to doctors by the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc
Quote:
Association of American Physicians and Surgeons, Inc
Quote:
ADVICE TO DOCTORS RE: PAIN MANAGEMENT
(or "What the government has taught doctors.")
Until wrongs are righted and procedural changes are made, physicians have little choice other than to be unusually suspicious of new patients, to require unnecessary and expensive tests, to waste time on excessive documentation, or to turn away suffering patients, even if they think the patients may not find anyone else to treat them.
If you're thinking about getting into pain management using opioids as appropriate:
DON'T. Forget what you learned in medical school -- drug agents now set medical standards.
If you do, first discuss the risks with your family.
They could lose a mother or father or breadwinner, their home, their car, their college fund;
There could be years of harassment and legal fees;
Your colleagues will probably ostracize you and family members at the first sign of trouble.
If you are already prescribing opioids:
Beware of new patients. If you accept a new patient, do background checks, demand old records before writing the first Rx, obtain urine screens and get them to sign opioid contracts. It is safer to turn them down, explain why, and give them an action item (call their congressman, for example).
Do thorough physicals, even if unnecessary and not helpful.
Make voluminous notes.
Exercise zero tolerance for patient slip-ups (such as losing a prescription).
Beware of any patients with a history of drug abuse. Even if now clean and in genuine pain, they might be induced by government zealots to testify against you to save themselves from imprisonment on drug charges.
Refer patients early and often to addictionologists, orthopedists, pain specialists, psychologists, regardless of expense or your opinion of helpfulness.
Keep a low profile and beware of saying anything that might offend an official of law enforcement, the licensure board, or the state medical society.
Never forget that you could be held to a standard of strict liability for any patient misbehavior or for any bad outcomes such as death, no matter the cause and without regard to the culpability of the patient or his associates. Remember, your medical decisions will be reviewed by drug agents who will decide if your actions were medically reasonable.
Consider phasing out this part of your practice, giving patients plenty of time to find another doctor.
You are most welcome to contribute to this topic / thread by posting below.
My Mother is going to a pain clinic about 30 miles away from her home, and I keep telling her that she needs to get away from that place because after all the time, money, effort to relive her chronic pain from two hip replacements, severe DDD, and other things, they only like to give her the nerve blocks and she is only allowed 2 (two) lortab in a 24 hour period. Does that sound like pain management?? Absoutley not! Ive done some research, and theyre are other pain management clinics in the area that she should try, as Ive told her this. She is afraid that nobody will help her anymore than she is already being helped. After reading and searching for something to help her, I see that the online pharmacys "ROP's" could help her alot more. She has all her records, test results, a stack about 2 inches thick. I dont post much but I read alot. Ive been trying to find her help, and now I think Ive found it. She can use one of the online doctors with Records and be much more comfortable in her extreme chronic pain. Im not a memeber, but would like to become one. What and how is that different,? Any pointers would help alot.
Thanks,
kendall
Edited by Kendall (08/13/06 08:24 AM)
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#93125 - 12/28/06 01:23 PM
Re: Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs?
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Member
Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 164
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In the UK, Dr's answer to the British Medical Association (BMA). There are also a specialised branch of police who's job is to simply check pharmicsts prescribing records every month, week and spot checks, and all they're really doing is checking his stocks against Rx's. It is the pharmacists job to inform on Dr's who appear to be over-prescribing, the BMA then look into the Dr's pratice and patient prescribing. If the Dr is treating addicts, has a high percentage of pain sufferer's, then he is simply left alone, or given help. If he has become an unwitting supplier of black market meds he is warned, given adequate time to put his house in order, or if he wishes he can have drug agency help him in his surgery. No one who has became an addict will be left out in the cold,they will get help. If a person recieving opiates dies, an autopsy and tribunal is carried out. If it appears the patient took his whole script in one go, or took other drugs, alcohol, benzo's unbeknown to the Dr, the dr is exonarated. The patient never followed the Dr's order's. If Dr constantly misreads patients mental state ie;suicidal depression, he may lose his right to prescribe schII meds. If he is continually negligant, he lose's his right to pratice. Medicine and prescribing pratices are laid down by Doctors, pharmacists, ex-doctors. Doctors who do not follow the laid down pratices or are under suspicion are judged by their peers. Not the police. There have been cases of dr's who became heroin addicts, abused their position, forging scripts, only to be found out by the pharmacists. This becomes a police matter(forgery) and the dr banned for life from praticing and put in rehab. No armed police in surgies The BMA has always been a regulatory body existing to protect doctors and patient rights. Earlier in the twentieth centurary the American political system tried to impose its might upon the british pharmacopia with a world wide ban on Heroin. The BMA fought tooth and nail to stop this from happening in Britain, which they achieved. Their main reason, heroin is far more soluble as well as far stronger. Emaciated cancer patients couldnt tolerate high enough dose of morphine injections because of the excess in liquid. With Heroin(the strongest narcotic of the time), being far more soluble, a far higher and stronger dose could be dissolved in a minute amount of water, giving the victim relief. Thankfully there are far stronger analgesics now, as well as patches. Medicine is not the realm of police.
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#93131 - 04/05/07 05:41 AM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Journeyman
Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 72
Loc: No-Ship State
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Actually, you'd be surprised how many "kids" are sneaking prescription drugs from their parents' medicine cabinets. I live in a town with a population of about 40,000. A couple years ago, at age 30-something, I became addicted to hydrocodone, not for the pain-killing effect but for the side effect that is usually the "buzz" or "high" that people refer to...a cloud of ambivalence that fuzzes up your brain and relieves stress, making life in general easier to tolerate. (Also, hydrocodone is an excellent appetite suppressant, but I already weighed 130 pounds at the time, so that wasn't my desired effect from the drug.) Given the fact that I was an "addict" with no legitimate medical need and was not able to obtain hydrocodone by going to see a doctor, I paid street prices ($6.00 to $8.00 per pill for any of the "tens" - yellow, blue, green, pink, dark blue, generic white). Almost ALL the " drug dealers" were teenagers who obtained the medications by stealing from their parents. A couple sources were young adults who were receiving up to 15 prescriptions per month in various names and selling them to people like me. A typical phone call to any of the sources would generally consist of "Hey, have you seen Lori lately?" (Asking if the person has or knows where to get lortabs.) You would then find out which variety (color & hydro/APAP mix) and the per pill price when you were told what she was wearing..."Yeah, she's here, and she's got a pretty green dress on today. She only paid $7.00 for it." The next line in the script would be how many pills you wanted..."Well, tell her to stay there, I'll be right over, I owe her $21.00." (Meaning you wanted to purchase three pills at $7.00 each.) At any local high school here, you can mention "lori" and kids will start salivating. They not only know what you are talking about, they are users. A casual "back aching stretch" and sotto voce deliverance of a sentence, "Geez, I'd love a 'tab right about now," would let you know at your place of employment if anyone in earshot was a user or seller. FedEx has become the DEA's watchdog...turning in the names and addresses of people who are receiving packages that either contain pill bottles or are sent from known pharmacies. (This I know personally because the DEA knocked on my front door in a FedEx costume to deliver a 'script, and they brought along the county narcotics division to join the party.) It is hard to obtain some prescription medications because the existence of abuse is prevalent and rampant. It won't go away, so the noose gets tighter and tighter. People can be found anywhere (especially on internet message boards) swearing on a stack of Bibles that they have an honest-to-God legitimate medical NEED for something when all their "need" consists of is the same need a junkie has for a needle. A fix. A high. A buzz. You'll get the same song and dance you can find a million other places...high school football injury, tragic bicycle accident as a teen, motorcycle wreck, degenerative spinal problem, and so on...the list is endless, but in all likelihood, very few of these people ACTUALLY "need" what they are seeking. Yes, SOME are legit. But MOST are not. It really doesn't take much effort to weed out the users from the abusers. (I'm not attempting to hold a precarious perch atop a soapbox with this post...I still occasionally ferret out a "source" for a pill or two, but it's a far cry from the $1,500.00 a month habit I once had.)
_________________________
"The chains of individualism continually rattle against the cage of conformity."
Some days, you're the bug. Other days, you're the windshield.
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#93135 - 04/10/07 01:28 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Board Addict
Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 321
Loc: South
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Couldn't resist throwing in my two cents. I was insulted FOR YOU, by that post, who does need these medications. I, too, am a recovering addict from painkillers and other things. And it does make it harder for legitimate people to get meds. Very hard. The majority of people I met in my lifetime who took meds for pain were actually in pain and not drugseeking a "buzz". And I used drugs for over 25 years. What a lot of addicts won't admit and aren't aware of is that you don't get that level of "euphoric buzz" when you are in legitimate pain. You get relief, somewhat, and maybe a little drowsy. That's it. I know because of all the surgeries I've had, some to get pills and some for legitimate medical reasons. Like the thoracic sympathectomies, x3, I had many years ago. Dilaudid was prescribed after the doctor nicked an artery on the second surgery and I was bleeding internally and needed a third operation to save my life. Also had to take Demerol and Vistaril mixed just to roll over in the morning because I would stiffen up during the night, if I slept at all. Recovery took almost a year total. No buzz. I just was paralyzed for about two weeks in one arm and shoulder and then, it came back to life in a real painful way. Dilaudid barely helped, but no buzz. In fact, what was left over, I threw away.
I had wisdom teeth removed once and the dentist didn't give me the prescripton before I left the office for my pain meds to take home, so when I called the following morning, since they were closed when I reached home, he accused me of lying! At that time, I wasn't an addict. Just naive. And yes, there are plenty of bad apples that have ruined it for legitimate patients who need help to get through the day. My husband, a carpet installer, with three crushed discs, in addition, also fell from a 15 foot staircase, needed meds, and I saw very few doctors that were willing to not under-prescribe for this person who STILL went to work everyday to support us with these injuries, hauling carpet on his back! Only after they saw the MRI's, did they start to understand his pain and prescribe whatever he needed until we had insurance to get an operation. And he will always need some type of pain medication just to survive, because HE STILL HAD TO GO TO WORK. He was given oxycontin, which of course I stole at that time. I'm no longer using pain meds, I do take a valium or xanax from time to time, from my Doctor, because I'm bipolar (isn't everyone! LOL), but I regret making life harder for chronically ill people.
I work in a company where heavy lifting and moving is normal and many, many of my coworkers have back injuries, and I gotta say, I thank God I never injured my back. They are miserable almost every time they have to lift freight or move heavy items, or just out of the blue one day when it flares up. And they will never be without some pain. It's awful. Just because that person was a drugseeker, he can't fathom that everyone isn't using them for thrills. And most people are not. I know this and so does he. Don't you give up looking for a understanding doc. I found that my husband was best treated by female doc's. They just seem to understand better. May God bless you and good luck to you. Take care of yourself.
ragamuffin.
_________________________
After I'm gone, nothing will matter except that I was important in the life of an animal or child who needed me.
Don't shop. Adopt a pet.
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#93136 - 04/10/07 01:52 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Board Addict
Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 321
Loc: South
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Again, just have to stick my nose in the subject, because I'm a recovering addict-painkillers mostly. It isn't the patients abusing the meds, it's the doc's underprescribing because they sometimes have no choice, that force patients to seek drugs elsewhere, or even smoke and drink to excess just to survive. I know this for fact. My husband was seriously injured and soon became an alcoholic. I had legit medical reasons sometimes and some, I didn't. Very few doc's would even take the time to order tests to see if I was telling the truth. I also injured my wrist once, and for over a year it was unbearably painful. I listened to soooo many docs tell me I didn't need Vicodin because only "cancer" patients needed that. WEll I finally found an orthopaedic surgeon, who happened to be the doc/surgeon for some NFL, MLB, and NHA teams, won't say which, who believed me, and finally opened me up for surgery and couldn't believe how bad it really was. The bones had no cartilidge left surrounding them and were turning to "mush" to quote him, from rubbing together so long. He said it's no wonder you've been in so much pain for so long. He's the best doc I ever had. Fixed me up, took out some bones in my wrist, with a hammer and a chisel, good as new. And he never underprescribed for me. When it was time to cut me off, he tapered me off them slowly. I regret the years I spent using, and making it harder for patients who needed meds, even affected my own treatments. That's my fault. Not good docs. And the DEA too. They all want to be heroes. Let's start with shutting down the methadone clinics I went to for a high for so long. They are legalized drug abuse, often funded by the government!!!! And I never once used Heroin. Just pain meds and cocaine. How's that for our system. How about tougher drug laws for street drugs, dealers, and people like me who forged prescriptons, altered them, or stole them. HMMMMM.. ragamuffin
_________________________
After I'm gone, nothing will matter except that I was important in the life of an animal or child who needed me.
Don't shop. Adopt a pet.
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#93137 - 04/11/07 07:16 AM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Stranger
Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 5
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I think it's great you were honest. I personally don't think you should feel bad, you were honest in saying you liked to take them, which, yes it does make it harder to get for people who need them but at the same time, honesty I find is very important. I personally would be lying if I said there have been a few times where I didn't enjoy it. I mean when you've been hurting and sore all day some guys come home, and have beer. No problem with that but I don't drink much when at all, and when I was working alone in a cell phone shop all day, my back and legs would be killing me when I got home, I didn't want Beer, I'd graba Vicodin ES or 3 and try to relax because the throbbing would finally stop. Some days 2 was good enough so I could get up to actually have dinner, but there were a few days where I would come home like OK this hurts bad, and I'd grab 3 tablets befor eI could get back out of my chair. I'm not a druggie who's all about being stoned, I'm a computer geek with decent talent and skill who has back problems, shoulder problems, and a very bad knee and ankle that flair up when they decide it's time too. Anyway jhust wanted to chime in and say that my post wasn't directed at you, as you seem to have already seen what these laws and under perscribing can do. I know it might be hard for some people who don't take pain pills to understand that 3 Vicodin ES didn't even make me stoned in the slightest but they don't. I've driven on OxyContin, Demerol, Dilauded, and Vicodin ES without a problem, they just don't give me a huge stoned feeling. Thanks for being Honest and Thanks for the Blessings 
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#93140 - 06/03/07 06:45 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/27/03
Posts: 63
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That may be partially true, but there is a lot of interests involved behind prescription drugs. I seriously doubt the DEA keeps a file on every Tom, Dick and Harry that orders a script online -- it isn't worth their time. If someone is double and triple dipping, it will probably raise some red flags for the intent to distribute, though.
Pharmaceutical companies put A LOT of money behind their products. Patents only last so long, so they have to reinvent a new pain pill or benzo every now and then to milk the system. They have lobbyists in congress making sure that their products get prescribed, along with giving kickbacks to doctors for prescribing whatever their pill of the month may be.
As far as the whole "buzz" factor, who really cares? There are a lot of people who self-medicate due to the convoluted U.S. health system. The price of insurance is skyrocketing, doctors are getting forced out of business due to overwhelming personal liability premiums and meanwhile there are people with legitimate needs that simply can't afford the outrageous cost of health care.
The old adage is to follow the money trail but that is extremely difficult since, when it comes to prescription drugs, there are so many money trails.
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#93141 - 06/03/07 08:43 PM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Newbie
Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 27
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From the original article by admin - (I don't know how to quote yet!!)
"In another case of DEA strong-arm tactics, more than 20 agents burst into a Dallas pain clinic in June. The agents kicked down doors, ransacked the office of Dr. Daniel Maynard, and handcuffed patients, including an elderly woman with a stroller and an oxygen tank."
I grew up knowing Dr. Maynard as friend, not doctor. My mom and dad own a Home Health Equipment Company and Maynard owned the building in Dallas they rented, and sent them many referrals, so I bet that walker and oxygen tank came from my mom's office!!!!
The whole story shocked us as a family, because if you knew Maynard, you would know that he was not in any way out for a quick buck, but had a THRIVING practice, trouble was the part of town it was in....There were crack dealers on every corner and many of their elderly family members had scripts from Maynard that were stolen from grandma to turn a buck on the street. What a shame. He was there in a neighborhood no other doctor would dare set up shop in (same reason my mom and dad went there - for legitimate need and they only dealt hospital beds and wheelchairs, etc...no drugs or needles!), because he cared and knew these people needed QUALITY care. ABSOLUTELY SICKENING!!!!!!!!!!
No wonder nobody wants to help the poorer communities of our nation. They get bit in the a$$ for it.
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#93142 - 06/05/07 09:15 AM
Re:Why is it so hard to get prescription drugs?
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Newbie
Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 27
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Quote:
No wonder nobody wants to help the poorer communities of our nation. They get bit in the a$$ for it.
Just a follow up to my last post. I asked around about whatever happened to Maynard and turns out their were no convictions, and as a result the Dallas Police Dept is being investigated for planting evidence in a number of related cases in conjunction with higher up LE.
A great man loses his license, and all for show.
Thinkin' 'boot moving to Canada. 
Cheers,Laroo
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#540308 - 08/11/07 11:54 AM
Re: Why is it so hard to get some prescription drugs?
[Re: Administrator]
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Stranger
Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 23
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Back when I was 11 and my sister 9, we were both molested by our father. That was 32 years ago. I was being prepared to testify on the stand as I was the only 1 of 5 that was able to do it at that time. The other three were 12, 13, 15. I was scared to death of my dad and hated him. Somewhere inside I knew that if I did not do it, he would get managing conservatorship of one and visitation rights with the other -- in other words, we'd be subjected to him until we were adults. I set aside my subjective feelings and went for the objective. When my dad saw me walking down the courtroom hall, he knew he had better back down. So he gave up all visitation rights and agreed to paid child support. Thank God it didn't happen as I'd have been the poster girl because back then even though it went on you never heard about it. For years I had night terrors. The only thing the doctor would recommend was some OTC antihisamine commonly used for sleep. I did that for almost 20 years. Finally, when I was diagnosed with hypothroidism and my doctor asked me how I felt. I told him I felt fine. The blood work came back and he said, "There's no way you could be feeling fine." So when I told him the weird hours I worked, my childhood and the way my husband is, he told me, "It's amazing you are doing as well as you are. Most people come in here with anything resembling your story can't make decisions." He asked me how much sleep I was geting. I told him 3, which is awful for someone who is diabetic (not overweight diabetic, overtired diabetic). And thus my introduction to Ambien. And it was while I was on Ambien I remembered that these night terrors were in fact reality. People have a tendency to think that young people don't need them, except obvious illnesses like cancer or heart disease. The situation with my dad - the only person who truly spoke to me in a heart-to-heart conversation, caring and open was my poor deceased grandmother. I miss her something terrible.
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#540470 - 08/11/07 06:10 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
[Re: Lablady2]
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Journeyman
Registered: 02/20/07
Posts: 56
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#541786 - 08/14/07 09:38 AM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
[Re: Lablady2]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/03/04
Posts: 1275
Loc: Tir Na Greine
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Why does Jeb Bush's daughter get rehab for forging Xanex Rx's and some other poor guy in FL is sentenced to 25 years in jail - why does Rush Limbaugh get rehab when anyone else would have been locked up and had the key thrown away - These folks had terrific lawyers...that is why they got off w/just rehab. And, by the way, if I am not mistaken, Jeb's daughter actually did do some sort of time...not sure what kind of facility, but she kept screwing up. Alot of times, the court system has to catch up with the accused lawbreaker, with motions (as they say in the legal profession.."Blanketing them with paper"), and this would cause things to move very slowly. That may be the case with Rush, and if so, he (Rush) and his lawyers, family etc, may have decided to go ahead and enter rehab, since he probably figured it would be coming eventually, and that the court may look more favorably on his case if had been clean and sober for some time once it went to trial. I do know that Rush's legal team has been trying to block the overly zealous State's Attny from accessing his private medical records, which all of us should be supporting. I don't care who you are, or what you may suffer from, but there should very strict controls on who may access your medical records...period, end of story. By the way, I don't think that this is another case of the vast right wing conspiracy getting off scot free...alot of times it is up to the discretion of the judge, and that certainly varies a great deal from individual to individual. Just some thoughts... Peace, Katy
_________________________
"It's a dangerous business, going out your door...You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet..there's no knowing where you might be swept off to." Bilbo Baggins, a Hobbit.
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#544957 - 08/18/07 04:45 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
[Re: katydid419]
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Stranger
Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 5
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I have dealt with this issue since my pain started, which funny enough, was about 5 years ago. Looks like around the time prescribing opoids became an issue...or a bigger issue maybe I should say. I really wish there was something we could all do together to make someone understand how it feels to deal with pain on a daily basis and how if we didn't have this pain we wouldn't need to take a freakin' pill! Do they actually think we like to take medication every day knowing it will not remove the pain but just dull it enough for us to function? If I had one wish it would be for these DEA people to be in our shoes for just 1 day!  Just 1 and see what it feels like and what we go through. Of course that wouldn't make them understand the long term effects of being in pain every day or the other medical problems being in pain causes but at least they would see IT IS REAL, IT HURTS AND IT'S VERY FRUSTRATING!!!! I could go on and on about this topic but I won't. Reading and hearing all of this really fires me up though!  If they didn't make it so hard to get the medication from our doctors we physically see we woudn't need to turn to the internet. Thank God the people are running these business trying to help us out!
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#546667 - 08/21/07 04:36 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
[Re: Lablady2]
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Newbie
Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 25
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#546687 - 08/21/07 05:02 PM
Re:Why isit so hard to get some prscription drugs?
[Re: blackhawk]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 3315
Loc: The Boonies
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It really amazes me when I read articles that tell health care providers how to detect " drug seeking" behaviors. The ones that I find especially objectionable are: The patient uses words like "suffering" The patient exhibits a lot of knowledge of medication and/or symptoms. Uses medical terminology. What is one supposed to say? "Oh, I'm hurtin real bad, doc". I think it's 'cause I got some problem down in my tailbone..." or "I got a busted back bone awhile back and it really smarts"... I even read somewhere that is a patient acts like they can't pronounce the name of the med (uh, it's hydro-something or other) that is another sign. So, you're damned if you do or damned if you don't Give me a break. With the internet, people are educating themselves about options for their health care. Is there some law that says a layperson can't use terms like Degenerative Disk Disease or trochanteric bursitis (these came to mind as I have both of these conditions)?
_________________________
The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it - Voltaire
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