Hi Firefairy:

I agree with all except this last statement. It has JUST been proven that elected officials will "claim" they work for "us" when in fact once they get into office everything changes. What we really need is a better way to keep them accountable to us (ie: more teeth) or an easier way to replace them mid term. If you're hired by a private company and don't perform what you promised do you think they'll keep you for 2 or 4 years? Not a chance.

I agree, Resorts. Something odd happens when these guys (and they are mostly guys) get elected. Maybe some sort of "mind meld",lol. But, you see it over and over. I think it is a case of being pulled a million ways at once. Must be overwhelming. Alot to learn in a short time.

I personally believe that most legislators have the country and their constituents at heart. Altho it often seems that they move reluctantly, getting consensus can be hard to achieve. I am not excusing - but just being realistic.

Back to the topic - it seems unlikely (to me anyway) that they would outright ban these meds. It would be, like, you can build the house, but you can't use a hammer.

It would not hurt to have Tylenol be tightly restricted. Don't think that will happen either.

Maybe in another lifetime, eh?

Hey Groupie, you're not dumb! You say that you might be dumb because you don't know about every unhealthy and illegal practice possible?

Old And Worn simply knows the Rules here -- we can't (and shouldn't) describe illegal activities, that's all.

We leave that to the tabloid media.

Didn't mean to butt in but it's too late. I did already

patient2all

I just thought I would point out that while you addressed this post to me, you were replying to Fireaway. No big deal, just wanted to clear up any confusion.

I thought the same thing, Firefairy. For a minute I wondered what I had posted! LOL

It may be true that officials get elected by claiming to work for us and what we want gov't's job to be but what is said before election and what is done after election are two separate things. What I meant is that we have to stop accepting this situation as "just the way it is." We spend so much time on Presidental elections yet the majority of the public has no idea who they are voting into Congress. Some do not even know their names, what their platforms are, what their voting records are, etc. They vote for a name they have heard the most or they vote a straight ticket.

This is a huge problem for us given that Congress has so much power. We need to spend just as much time if not more, in knowing who we are voting for in Congress. The election in 2010 is a good time to start.

Isn't that the truth. I get so upset when I see the way the media talks about pain meds. They obviously just buy into the rhetoric and don't bothe to do any research (maybe talk to some CP patients??).

There is a new series on HBO - Nurse Jackie. The character is "addicted" to pain meds. One of the recent episodes had a woman who came to the ER because she was having severe stomach pains. Jackie knew the symptoms and, sure enough, the patient was going through WD's from Vicodan. The patient said she was RX'd them when she had some dental work and "liked" the way they made her feel, and they are SO EASY TO BUY ONLINE, yada-yada-yada. That really ticked me off.

Okay, just so it's clear: You have to be a kid with a credit card or a fictional TV character to get pain medication "so easy" from the internet.

Sadly, none of us here fit that profile....

patient2all

Yes, that is what the media obviously believes. I keep meaning to write the producers of Nurse Jackie but I imagine they probably have gotten a lot of feedback already. I noticed that last week's episode featured very little about her taking the meds (although it seems a bit unbelievable that her lover, the hospital pharmacist, can just hand out blister packs and bottles of hydro and oxy to her all the time without the drugs being missed.

Is this a joke?
APAP is a poison.I wouldn't take it if my life depended on it.

It would be very useful, as it has reliable bioavailability, and is superior to oral morphine in this respect. Oral opioids for acute pain are difficult to get to work quickly.

APAP, ibuprofen, diclofenac or whatever can be taken as a separate pill.

Useful meaning it does not kill pain very well. Ask compound users. The low apap meds from the ROPs had a lot of people complaining due to high cost and low pain killing capabilities. I never take more than 350mg apap a day if I take any at all.

Meant 325mg apap. Maybe the occasional 500mg but rare. Advil and/or Mobic for nsaids.

I agree.
I do think APAP/Paracetamol is ok in low doses for helping fevers.
I use to take it by the handful when I was younger.It never worked for pain,but everyone told me it worked so I kept taking it.When I stopped taking it I actually didn't feel any different.
The only time I found APAP/Paracetamol to be helpful was when I had hot/cold sweats etc.

Great tagline quote, Joker. I smile every time I see it.

I keep meaning to write about a lot of things too but....

However in the meantime, when you see internet articles about this show, the actors or characters, look for links to subscribe to RSS Feeds or News Feeds on that name, especially via Google News Alerts.

That way you'll hear about any online mentions in your email. Oftentimes at the article site there will be "Comment" sections where you can express a view.

Don't expect to be popular though. We've never been perceived more negatively. Even my mother who doesn't hear of much was discussing my excruciating post procedure pain. She said, "Don't let them give you that Vicodin, I saw where it can kill you!". She mentioned how she was prompted by recent news to throw away 2 bottles of Percocet that had been prescribed for her and my step-father for past maladies. Feared they might explode in the medicine cabinet, I suppose....

As I literally see "Stars" that I know won't go away, I've just about given up hope on ever contributing to society again.

patient2all

I couldn't find where you wrote about "nurse Jackie" but I am telling you....That really is a good show. It has a LOT of viewers and has great ratings! Unfortunately, it is true with a lot of nurses and/or medical professionals! I know--as being one of them.. Many are in programs to help keep their license or some keep on practicing with no regard to taking scripts like Hydro, Oxy, whatever..and don't get caught. The problems are accessiblility, being extremely tired, or experiencing a great deal of pain and/or stress. If you only KNEW how common this was, you could appreciate it. Even if the drug abuse bothers you, pay attention to the story line and the plot..She lives one life in the hospital and then goes home to another life. And it shows you what her "lives" are like.

I know that addiction is a big problem in the medical profession. I do like the show - It just bothered me how pain meds were portrayed in a some of the episodes, especially the one about vicodan being "so easy to get online".

My husband and I were talking last night about the mystery of why she keeps hidden from most of her co-workers the fact that she is married and has children. Hopefully, it will be explained soon. Maybe if she didn't live a lie, her stress level would go down and she wouldn't need the meds as much.

Okay, I have read all four pages of this and I am more confused than ever.

Having read all that I can of what the media has put out there and what has been discussed on this thread, one question has still not been answered.

Please excuse my ignorance, but if they ban vicodin-does that mean every hydro compound (no matter what the name) will be banned?

I'm talking lortab, norco, and others that I cannot remember the names of now. I once took a hydro combo that started with the letter x.

Anyway, is vicodin the major brand name and everything else is just a subsidiary?

I guess I should just ask my doc when I see him next week, but I have kind of starting panicking.

I use hydro as a breakthrough med and have for years. I, too, have a clean liver.

Thanks for any help with my questions. Once again, I apologize if I am asking anything that I should alread know the answer to but don't.

I think it is really unclear at this point what actions will actually take place.

If you read the opinions of various medical personnel on both sides of the debate around the internet, they seem to have no major consensus among themselves.

Some think that that combo's with low amounts of APAP, like Norco, will become the standard, along with Vicoprofin. Some feel that it will lead to more chronic pain patients actually getting the ER meds they should be on in the first place, while others think that insurance companies/Medicaid will balk at this, as that would mean more frequent appointments for the purpose of writing prescriptions.

It is interesting that all the discussion is about banning the opiate pain relievers but nothing about the hundreds of other products that contain APAP. They are abused just as much and contribute to liver failure and death too. I think the Advisory Panel is using this as an excuse to try to ban the opoiates.

On the other hand, the drug companies will just develop/distribute another opiate with something other than APAP. They have too much to lose ($) since over 100 million scripts are written every year for the opiates with APAP.

I agree Zippy2323 - WAY too many do-gooders. Why don't they ban alcohol (again)?!! - that's killed many livers!
Heck: BAN EVERYTHING !!! - This way no one will ever die.

I am sick of being restricted more and more.

Yeah, green, I wondered the same thing. Why hide her being married with children? Strange... The only reason I can think of, is because she is hooking up with the pharmacist (for obvious reasons) and doesn't want him to know. She is misleading him and making him think that he is the only one and really likes him--that's what I think.

JB, the doc will have to write it as Hydro 10mg and then you will be safe that way. So if they change it without the apap, you are covered. BUT the question is, will they change this to a sch II instead of III is what I am thinking of and how will this affect the OCS industry--as they don't write for those. I am off them but thinking about the hell others will have to go through. That is rough and I am sorry..

Another good point!

Wrong..they are banning the other combos like cough meds and Tylenol 500mg, etc...not just Vicodin and Percocet and those similiar...It may be for the best. Look at it this way..You will get your opiate script without all that unecessary apap and can take some Motrin with it.. It will work out.

Yeah, I have thought the same too. Alcohol has caused Cirrhosis(sp)? and ascites--excessive fluid in the abdomen. Excuse my spelling if I have mispelled. I am used to spell check and have relied on it!

Thanks all for helping me out. I have had liquid hydro in a cough syrup before. Best hydro I ever had.

Maybe they will start prescribing it in a liquid form? I don't think that the cough meds had any apap in it.

Yea. Good chance of that. Dream on.

They (the FDA) has not banned anything. They ---the FDA Advisory Panel only made recommendations. Just as they did with proxyphene (darvocet and darvon). But this week the FDA (not the Advisory Panel) voted NOT to ban Darvocet and Darvon. Now to be fair, this vote was about proxyphene, not APAP. Most European countries have already stopped making proxyphene. Again, the US will stand alone.

i think they already do have a form of liquid lortab that is 7.5mg/5mL and i dont believe it has APAP in it.... correct me if im wrong though