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#904560 - 07/06/09 12:49 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: OldandWorn]
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Banned. Shill. To many posts to promote an obvious scam...
Old Hand
Registered: 10/07/03
Posts: 495
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Personal experience:
Ativan did absolutely nothing for me. Didn't even feel it.
The difference between the other three:
Xanax is the quickest-acting and shortest half-life so it comes and goes fast. Valium takes a while to come on, but stays in your system a long time. Klonopin is somwehere in between.
I actually prefer the K-pins, because I get the wafer form, and dissolving those under my tongue helps to alleviate my anxiety just as quickly as Xanax. Valium would be my second favorite, only because of its muscle-relaxant properties that the other benzos don't share...but it does give me a hangover that I don't like. Xanax is great, just doesn't agree with my system as well for some reason. I still enjoy the way it rids me of anxiety and interrupts any kind of panic attack, though.
So the official ranking is:
1) Klonopin (clonazepam)
2) Valium (diazepam)
3) Xanax (alprazolam)
4) Ativan - not even #4, because I prefer oxazepam, flurazepam, and other exotic benzos I receive from my current source. All of those benzos do the same general thing, but feel slightly different.
---J
_________________________
"...but I'm coming home, I'm comin home, to make it all right so dry your eyes...we think the same things at the same time, there are too many of us so you can't count..."
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#904573 - 07/06/09 02:19 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: jskream]
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Veteran
Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 672
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Personal experience:
Ativan did absolutely nothing for me. Didn't even feel it.
The difference between the other three:
Xanax is the quickest-acting and shortest half-life so it comes and goes fast. Valium takes a while to come on, but stays in your system a long time. Klonopin is somwehere in between.
I actually prefer the K-pins, because I get the wafer form, and dissolving those under my tongue helps to alleviate my anxiety just as quickly as Xanax. Valium would be my second favorite, only because of its muscle-relaxant properties that the other benzos don't share...but it does give me a hangover that I don't like. Xanax is great, just doesn't agree with my system as well for some reason. I still enjoy the way it rids me of anxiety and interrupts any kind of panic attack, though.
So the official ranking is:
1) Klonopin (clonazepam)
2) Valium (diazepam)
3) Xanax (alprazolam)
4) Ativan - not even #4, because I prefer oxazepam, flurazepam, and other exotic benzos I receive from my current source. All of those benzos do the same general thing, but feel slightly different.
---J Nice post. I feel very much the same: 1) Valium (diazepam) 2) Klonopin (clonazepam) 3) Xanax (alprazolam) 4) Ativan - not even #4, because I too have almost no effect from this one and prefer to seek out anything but Ativan.
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#908607 - 07/16/09 04:10 PM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: bestdad]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/24/04
Posts: 2240
Loc: |20(|-|3||35|\/|6 1$ 6@`/
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xanax and klonopin together. Valium is just to weak. probably because you are used to taking alprazolam. (which is much stronger in the short term, remember... 2 milligrams of ALP = 40mgs of diazepam) but if you took valium everyday (which i do not recommend), after a week or so, when reaching a good blood plasma level, i think valium would work well for you. i like it as it works as a muscle relaxer as well. when i had a valium prescription, i did not have to take much Soma. now that my doc has me on ALP, i am back to taking Soma when the spasms are bad. in fact when i think about it, i took less valium when i had it prescribed than i currently take xanax. i will agree though, for severe panic attacks, nothing works better than alprazolam. some will argue this point, as i believe studies do show that diazepam has the quickest onset of most benzos, but alprazolam does have a "punch" if you will, that will stop severe anxiety within a few minutes if taken sublingual. ARO 20 minutes if swallowed normally in my experience. i guess most people are different though, so body chem and metabolism can play a lot in the effects of each medication as well. at any rate, benzos should not be taken daily unless it is a must. most people do not realize the repercussions of a decent benzo tolerance until they run out or their doc decides to stop prescribing it. at that point it is too late, unless one is responsible and taking PRN.
Edited by funkybreakz (07/16/09 04:11 PM)
_________________________
When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.
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#913493 - 08/01/09 09:06 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: a7xjoshr]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9707
Loc: NOT 40!
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With regular use, diazepam is metabolised into other benzodiazepine drugs, the levels of which build up over time. Therefore, when you withdraw from it, it is much smoother, and some residual effects can last for days. With occasional use, diazepam has similar effects to alprazolam, but is still safer as it does not 'switch off' as suddenly as alprazolam. As for it being weaker, well that shouldn't be an issue if doctors prescribed the correct doses. Take enough diazepam, and the effects can be as strong as you like. But the problem is that a lot of doctors do not realise that prescribing 2mg doses of alprazolam is like prescribing 40mg diazepam. It is ridiculous. The 2mg 'bars' of alprazolam are a nonsense product. They should be taken off the market. It's hard to decide if alprazolam is the problem, or the doctors prescribing it. It's probably both. The drug would make more sense as an occasional hypnotic. Other than that, it's best avoided. They all cause drowsiness, relief of anxiety, and skeletal muscle relaxation. Patient response varies as it does with any drug, but apart from onset, duration of action and active metabolites (or which alprazolam has none), the benzodiazepines are a much of a muchness.
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#916280 - 08/09/09 02:35 PM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: gillettecavalca]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9707
Loc: NOT 40!
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That site is a waste of space. It's the people who slag it off who are a waste of space, and time. I hope to god that it gets shut down one day. It won't be. If people were just sensible with their meds. But many aren't. And neither are the prescriptions from many a doctor. I've been on Clonazepam for 6 years. Take it as needed with propranolol. Can go weeks without it no withdrawal, nada, noubt. Bully for you. But there are others in the world besides you. It is the ONLY drug that gave me my QUALITY OF LIFE back. Back from what? When did your problem start? Why did it start? Perhaps if you find the cause, you might find the solution. What about non- drug methods? What other drugs did you try? I would recommend to anyone with social phobia to try it. A poor recommendation, and one of the reasons benzo.org.uk exists. Try recommending CBT or non- drug methods first. Then try non-addictive drugs. THEN consider benzodiazepines. A good doctor will climb this ladder, rather than jumping straight to the top. Benzophobes are a waste of space. They say stuff like 'benzos can make you go blind, .......IF YOU INJECT THEM IN YOUR EYES' I've never seen a "benzophobe" on this site. And please show me the stuff these people say; I would be genuinely interested. You tell me.
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#916294 - 08/09/09 03:17 PM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: gillettecavalca]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 1861
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There is a BIG difference between dependency and addiction. Is a diabetic addicted to insulin because they need it everyday to function? Short answer, NO.
Have you ever heard of a diabetic trying to refill his prescription a week early? Have you ever heard a diabetic complain that someone "stole" his insulin or it fell in the toilet or his dog ate it? Have you ever seen anyone on these discussion boards trying to buy insulin on the Internet because their doctor isn't compassionate and won't prescribe "the dose they think they need?" Have you ever heard of people exchanging estimates about what the current street prices are for insulin? Do diabetics suffer from tolerance problems when they take insulin for a long time and have to keep increasing their dosage to get the same "effect?" That tired old comparison of insulin to psychoactive substances is a dog that won't hunt. Of course a diabetic is not addicted to insulin.
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#916506 - 08/10/09 10:02 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: gillettecavalca]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9707
Loc: NOT 40!
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I stand by everything I have said. Then it's time for you to sit down, and talk bollocks somewhere else. PHENELZINE [Less suitable for prescribing]
Indications: depressive illness
Source: British National Formulary 57, March 2009. The most respected source of medical information in the world, bar none. Even old editions are prized by developing countries, who accept donations of such publications. The Joint Formulary Committee 2008–2009 consists of: Chairman Derek G. Waller BSc, MB, BS, DM, FRCP (from January 2009) Martin J. Kendall OBE, MD, FRCP, FFPM (until December 2008) Deputy Chairman Alison Blenkinsopp PhD, BPharm, FRPharmS Committee Members Jeffrey K. Aronson MA, MB ChB, DPhil, FRCP, FBPharmacolS, FFPM Anthony J. Avery BMedSci, MB ChB, DM, FRCGP Tawfique K. Daneshmend MB ChB, MD, FRCP Beth Hird BPharm, MSc, MRPharmS, SP, IP W. Moira Kinnear BSc, MSc, MRPharmS Gul Root BSc (Pharm), MRPharmS, DMS Rafe Suvarna MBBS, BSc, FFPM, DAvMed, DipIMC Carwen Wynne Howells BPharm, FRPharmS Executive Secretary Heidi Homar BA Please do contact them and tell them that their information in laughable, but I fear that you may be the only one laughing. Or crying when you realise that you're trying to argue with people who have infinitely more medical knowledge and general intelligence than yourself.
Edited by nephro (08/10/09 10:08 AM)
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#916576 - 08/10/09 01:54 PM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: gillettecavalca]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9707
Loc: NOT 40!
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"Phenelzine is most definitely not the gold standard for anything."
Nope, ....that is what SSRI's are suppose to be for.
Seriously, where do you get your information, .....because it is laughable.
Nardil has long been the Gold Standard for Social Phobia. Just look over at SAS or Psychobabble. Due to it's gaba properties.
Benzo's mixed with stimulants and beta blockers, OR an MAOI's (Both Nardil and Phenelzine, Probably even more so Phenelzine due to it's stimulant properties) work wonders for social anxiety.
.....and before you start going on about the dietary restrictions with foods high in tyramine like you mention EVERYTIME I talk about an MAOI. The dietary restrictions have been renewed and are far more relaxed these days. Nardil IS phenelzine. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Right, so Psychobabble is more accurate than the BNF. Do doctors and hospitals use Psychobabble or the BNF? Oh, and the dietary restrictions and interactions are listed here, from the Nardil Patient Information Leaflet: Nardil and Other Medicines Nardil can react with some other medicines including those bought without a prescription. Always tell your doctor, dentist and pharmacist that you are taking Nardil. Nardil may interact with: • Cough and cold cures, hay fever medications, asthma inhalant medications, anti-appetite medicines, weight-reducing preparations and ‘pep’ pills. • Strong pain killers (pethidine and morphine). This could be a serious reaction. • Tryptophan, amphetamines and medicines of the type known as sympathomimetic amines (adrenaline (epinephrine), fenfluramine, ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, dopamine and levodopa). Cough medicine containing dextromethorphan. Some of these may be in cold cures and other medicines bought without a prescription. • Medicines used to treat high blood pressure (particularly guanethidine), diabetes and antimuscarinics used to treat motion sickness, relieve muscle cramps in the gut or bladder or Parkinson’s disease, medicines which make you sleepy (including barbiturates and alcohol) and local anaesthetics including cocaine. The effect of these medicines may be increased by Nardil. • Amfebutamone (used to help you give up smoking) and 5HT1 agonists (used to treat migraine). These medicines should not be taken at the same time as, or within 14 days of, Nardil. • Medicines used to treat epilepsy, altretamine (used to treat ovarian cancer), doxapram (used to stimulate breathing in emergency situations), tetrabenazine (used to treat Huntington’s chorea), oxypertine and clozapine (used to treat schizophrenia and other similar illnesses). Check with your doctor or pharmacist before taking Nardil, if you are taking any of these medicines. • Antidepressants of the type known as tricyclic antidepressants. These antidepressants and Nardil are not usually given within 14 days of each other. However, sometimes they may be used together if great care is taken and your doctor feels it is appropriate. • Other antidepressants. Nardil should not be taken for 14 days either before or after taking another Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor (MAOI), buspirone or dibenzazepine derivative drugs e.g. tricyclic antidepressant agents, perphenazine or carbamazepine. If you have been taking clomipramine or imipramine, 3 weeks should be left before starting Nardil. Nardil should not be used at the same time as Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors (SSRI) or Serotonin Noradrenaline Re-uptake Inhibitors (SNRI) e.g. venlafaxine - your doctor or pharmacist can tell you if you are taking these types of drugs. If you are taking SSRIs, then a sufficient amount of time needs to be left to allow the drug and its by-products to leave the body before you can start taking Nardil. Also, do not start taking an SSRI or SNRI until 14 days after finishing taking Nardil. Nardil and Food Nardil interacts with a substance called tyramine which is found in some foods. If you eat a food containing tyramine while you are taking Nardil, or within 14 days of taking Nardil, you may have a very severe rise in blood pressure. This will happen soon after eating the food and you may get a violent headache, pounding heart, stiff neck, flushing, sweating or you may be sick. The severity of the reaction depends on the amount of tyramine you eat and may be mild or may be dangerous, even fatal. If you feel such a reaction happening, tell your doctor at once. Do not eat: Cheese (cooked or plain), liver, yoghurt, yeast extracts (e.g. Marmite), Oxo, Bovril, Brewer’s yeast, flavoured textured vegetable protein, broad bean pods, protein which has been allowed to age, degrade or ferment (e.g. hung game, pickled herrings or dry sausage such as salami or pepperoni), fermented soya bean extract, excessive amounts of chocolate. Do not drink: Alcohol, non-alcoholic beer, lager or wine. You may drink a reasonable amount of tea or coffee but not to excess. So, as you say, very relaxed indeed. Go ahead - eat, drink and be merry. I think that you are confusing the relaxing of interacting substances with the introduction of reversible MAOIs such as moclobemide.
Edited by nephro (08/10/09 02:20 PM)
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#916852 - 08/11/09 09:07 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: scubadudejz]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9707
Loc: NOT 40!
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Benzo.org.uk is a bias website, they have a christian fish/cross on the bottom. Thats cool with me, but you have to realize where that puts their's view of controlled substances.
It is not biased because if you read the whole site (which is rather large I do admit), it is not produced by Professor Ashton. A few people contribute to the site, but Prof Ashton clearly states that she is in favour of judicious use of benzodiazepines. Whet she is not in favour of, is frivolous use of benzodiazepines, and there is a lot of that going on in the UK, as is stated in the BNF. She is not out to ban benzos. Not one bit. Her withdrawal schedules clearly state that it is the PATIENT who has to make the decision to withdraw. If they are not ready, they are not ready. No problem. I do see how the site can come across the wrong way by looking at the odd page, but one has to look closer to see that it is quite neutral. One has to remember, many patients themselves were placed on long-term benzodiazepines without knowing why, or what they were. These patients have realised that they have become addicted and want to do something about it. Many go to their doctor, who has little idea of how to withdraw, and the patient experiences uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms. Others wish to educate themselves and try to withdraw on their own. Please have another read, and don't worry about what symbols are placed on the site. Anyone could have done this, even the web designer. It means nothing.
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#916856 - 08/11/09 09:18 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: gillettecavalca]
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9707
Loc: NOT 40!
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I meant Parnate for it's stimulant properties .....and I don't just use Psychobabble for my information.
.....and you are now on ignore because you're doing my box in.
Chill the fawk out. A typical response by someone who is too yellow, scared, and not man enough to have his mistakes corrected. Put your hands over your ears and block out the truth. Confuse different drugs and go merrily on your way. Talk loudly at the same time, why don't you? The only difference putting be on 'ignore' will make is that you will look stupid not being able to follow the thread due to 'missing' posts. Either that, or you cannot answer my question, which has now been asked five (5) times. What and when did you develop social phobia? Clonazepam gave you your quality of life BACK. Back from what? Or do you just use clonazepam recreationally? What I do object strongly to is your advice to others that the dietary restrictions for MAOIs have been relaxed. This is nonsense, and please, if anyone is reading, do not take notice of this potentially fatal advice. You want to hurt yourself, then fine, but DO NOT try to hurt others. Phenelzine is not a gold standard for anything. It would make more sense, and would be one hell of a lot safer, if the rest of the board put you on ignore.
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#916979 - 08/11/09 02:31 PM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: nephro]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 1083
Loc: My own theoretically ideal wor...
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I meant Parnate for it's stimulant properties .....and I don't just use Psychobabble for my information.
.....and you are now on ignore because you're doing my box in.
Chill the fawk out. A typical response by someone who is too yellow, scared, and not man enough to have his mistakes corrected. Put your hands over your ears and block out the truth. Confuse different drugs and go merrily on your way. Talk loudly at the same time, why don't you? The only difference putting be on 'ignore' will make is that you will look stupid not being able to follow the thread due to 'missing' posts. Either that, or you cannot answer my question, which has now been asked five (5) times. What and when did you develop social phobia? Clonazepam gave you your quality of life BACK. Back from what? Or do you just use clonazepam recreationally? What I do object strongly to is your advice to others that the dietary restrictions for MAOIs have been relaxed. This is nonsense, and please, if anyone is reading, do not take notice of this potentially fatal advice. You want to hurt yourself, then fine, but DO NOT try to hurt others. Phenelzine is not a gold standard for anything. It would make more sense, and would be one hell of a lot safer, if the rest of the board put you on ignore. Why can't Gillette just admit that he is wrong and learn something for himself?? I mean, he could possibly hurt himself with his own advice!!! That's scary!!
_________________________
If you ever become a mother, can I have one of the puppies?
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#921961 - 08/26/09 06:59 AM
Re: Favorite benzo
[Re: NiceGuy]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/18/09
Posts: 298
Loc: BIBLE BELT
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Awareness by Anthony De Mello, I have it written on a prescription pad. I am to go outside and feel the wind in my hair (what's left of my hair after I pull it out!). Did I mention that the appointment took 2 and a half hours and I had the first appointment of the day? I just want a regular doctor, I'm afraid if I got cancer or something, this guy would lay his hands on me and make it go away. Yes, theew is a lot to the spiritual awareness thing, but I've got to think about if this guy is going to be a good doctor if I should get seriously ill, or will he send me to an ashram somewhere...
Sorry, I think I hijacked the thread--I was really wondering what people thought of Klonopin. I took xanax xr prn and will do the same with this med. I know the prescribing label says you are supposed to take it every day, like the xanax, but I just needed it to "take me off the edge" when I thought I would strangle my kid or immediately drive my mother to a nursing home--do not pass go--do not collect $200. It worked really well for me like that. Don't know about Klonopin yet. Friday should put it to the test as I have to spend the morning at the pain clinic with my mother and then physical therapy. Those events usually push me over the edge separately, not to mention back to back.
_________________________
Be kind to bacteria, it's the only culture some people know.
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(THIS IS JUST MY OPINION - EVERYONE'S BODY IS DIFFERENT- *GENERAL DISCLAIMER* ) BUT THEY ARE ALL VERY ADDICTIVE, SO, I DO-NOT TAKE ANY BENZO EVERYDAY. 
I IS A BENZO THAT SHOULD BE USED WITH CARE. (NOT FOR EVERYONE) 
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