Hi Nephro,
Could you please explain the manifestations of these seizures?
I've experienced many w/d's from Xanax..
Grinding of the teeth resulting in fractured teeth,
Twitching eye,restless leg syndrome etc.
What I'm asking is what are these more serious
seizures like?
Is it like a stroke?
Do you pass out or roll on the ground gasping for breath.
Basically what might a w/d seizure from 6 mg per day
xanax for 30 years (figureatively of course) on a cold turkey
appear like? Would the victim be concious?Responsive?
Just wondering.
TIA

I had been taking on average 20mg of Valium a day for almost a year I think. I recently halved my dose to 10mg at night only and did not have any bad reactions or major withdrawl effects. I recommend you half your dose for a few days and see how you feel, its worth a try. if you do feel that you have come down too much then take an extra one occasionally (but not reverting to your previous dose daily) until you get used to the lower dose.

I have been on 10mg for about a month now (only taken in the evening an hour before bed) and plan on soon switching to 5mg (1/2 a pill) and see where that takes me.

Although I have noticed since reducing my Valium intake my alochol intake has increased a bit from 6 units a night to 8-10 units. I originally took Valium to reduce my alcohol consumption from 40 units a day. I was becoming a borderline alcoholic and drinking a litre of whiskey a day (40% alcohol by volume) before the benzo's. It worked very well in getting it down to 6 units a day in the evening only and 10mg Valium once in the morning and then another in the evening.

I never wanted to give up alcohol completely as its a major social part of my life but I am please I am not drinking anywhere near what I used to and do not crave it all day long for social anxiety. I used to go to the pub every lunch time at work and down 2-3 pints of beer (6-9 units) before getting lunch and heading back to the office. After work I would either go out drinking with whoever I could find and sometimes drink until 3 am. Now when I drink I mostly only do it at home to help sleep. I measure out each dose of whiskey so I know exactly how much I take (50ml of whiskey and 50ml of water in a glass filled up with ice which equals 2 units of alcohol and I make the drink last at least 1 hour).

Well I think Wikipedia seems to explain it in more depth than I can, and seems a decent article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seizure#Signs_and_symptoms

I was being rather specific to the poster I was responding to; where alcohol is involved one has to be especially careful. Seizures from cessation (or sudden drop in dosage) of benzos are very rare, but are probably more likely with the short-acting ones such as alprazolam.

Chlordiazepoxide is traditionally used to give alcoholics a 'soft landing' when coming off alcohol.

Hi NeatJeans!
Your comments made on 3/22/09 really "hit the nail on the head", and I think your explanation of the Xanax history
and the scenario that follows was the most precise, and best written response I have ever read on alprazolam!!!
Yes, I well remember when Upjohn's Xanax was the "miracle drug" of the late 1980's. For the year 1988, Xanax was the 3rd most prescribed brand name drug in the USA, only Beecham's "Amoxil" (antibiotic)@ #1, and Burrough's "Lanoxin" @#2 outsold the immensely popular Upjohn's "Xanax". In fact of all new & refill prescriptions of the top 200 brand name meds for the calender year 1988, the following Schedule IV meds fell far behind the blazing sales of "Xanax".....#17 Upjohn's "Halcion", #33 Roche's "Valium", #55 Wyeth's "Ativan", #73 Abbott's "Tranxene", and in #100 position was Sandoz's "Restoril". Source: Pharmaceutical Data Services Inc. Scottsdale, Arizona and "The Pill Book" 4th edition (Bantam Books February 1990).
Having been a daily user of Roche's "Valium" for 10 of 11 consecutive years in the 70's & early 80's I well remember when "Roche Valium" held the #1 position of the most prescribed "new & refill prescriptions" of drugs from the USA Physicians Desk Reference, for a record number of years that has never been surpassed (to my knowledge). I identify well with your storytelling, as I experienced first hand the same atttitude from "newer generation M.D.'s" when in the early to mid 1990's, I would get referred out from a GP's office, (after one script for either Xanax or Valium) to go to a "Psychiatrist" for follow up on either of those Benzo's!!! this happened to me in the Southwest, as well as the Southeastern USA, during the same time frame. My 24 month return to daily benzo use,
during 1994 thru 1996, resulted in the most severe withdrawal I have ever experienced.....going from 6 mg. per day of Xanax to zero took me ten (10 weeks), then a "slip" after eight weeks of abstinence, then another 60 days of Xanax use, chasing the "original buzz" but only to get immediately readdicted again, and another painful controlled gradual reduction of Xanax use until I reached zero use. Both times.....IMHO the worst was the final 2 weeks....going from 1 mg. to .5 mg per day, to "none".
I have lifelong GAD co-morbid with A.D.D., and after another ten (10 yrs) without Xanax or Valium, (only Ambien/Zolpidem for insomnia), I have returned to cautious use of Diazepam (Valium) the past 2 yrs, but never more than 20 mg. per day, and I always allow purposeful breaks, to interrupt my tendency to build tolerance. IMO I am too fearful to giving Xanax "another go"........Valium withdrawal was not easy, I struggled with a 40 to 60 mg. per day habit, along with alcoholism, but the "Xanax" dependency (for me was the worst withdrawal by far). Incidentally, I have been abstinent from alcohol since 1983.

Wow Ludes that's remarkable.
I recall those 500mg gel maroon placydl's
back in the 70's. I remember another abbott or squib
product that were yellow & black called "yellow jackets"
but forgot what they were nembutol or something?
I agree with you about the Xanax withdrawal.
It is so tough! I take 2mg a day and if I stop
my jaw gets so tight and I grind my teeth at night
that I have fractured 3 teeth. Got 7.5/350 Vicodin(Watson)
which was helpful for the pain but the buzz was
so euphoric. It would be scary to get hooked on those.
Anyway like you I'm trying to find a valium source
for W/D's. I withdrew from Valium a few times back in the 70's
and it wasn't too bad. Maybe Clonazepam which
seems less expensive per milligram might work.
BTW I was benzo free from 1978 to 1986 before
alprazolam was invented. Wish they had stuck wuth Valium.
Always appreciate your input and knowledge.
Thank you.

Thank you Nephro!
Your info is most informative.
You should be dubbed "Sir Nephro"
in my opinion.(once you pay that poll tax..LOL)
Just kidding.
Thanks so much for your objective,non-judgemental
info. Really helps and I always read it.
Thank you Sir!

You may be seated now.

In terms of Benzodiazepines, there are two qualities which make them dangerous:

-chemical/psychological dependence
-acute discontinuation syndrome / withdrawl

Benzos are addictive, if someone has the right (or wrong) wiring in thier head, they may prefer a particular benzo's effects and that may maybe it 'more addictive' for them. Also, some benzos such as chlorazepate (sp) have been linked with suicidal ideation, for example. This stuff cant be quantified, so I'll leave that at that.

Half life is the biggest factor when it comes to both dependence and withdrawl. Personally I'd say the most dangrous benzo is triazolam (halcion in the US, not on market now as far as i know). Basically, the half life of this pill is 2-4 hours and it achieves its peak plasma level quickly. In and out, fast. I have never really heard of this being prescribed in a TID/BID type of way, so the next shortest half life benzo that is common is Xanax.

Because of the short half life, you have to take frequent doses to maintain a stable blood/plasma level. So, unless you are an occasional prn/as needed user, theres going to be a quick dependency issue physiologically and psychologically.

Abrupt discontinuation of Xanax and any other benzo -can- result in seizures (not will, and not LIKELY to, but it is a significant risk). Xanax is out of your system fast so if lets say - you take 4 mg a day - and you lose your script, within 48 hours you're suffering significant withdrawal symptoms. A half life of 8 hours puts pretty much all of it out of your body very quickly.

Klonopin and Valium have longer half lives meaning that in the same situation, you have longer time to figure out the situation. In addition because the plasma/blood level drops more slowly with sudden discontinuation, ideally someone would notice if they were suffering from a serious and acute reaction.

I take 2mg of klonopin a day currently. There was a time i was on 5+mg of klonpin a day (before I knew about its addictive nature). While out of town in Boston, MA, my car was stolen and I spent 4 days wondering why I felt like i might die any moment until i finally called my doc.

A couple years later I had switched to Xanax, taking 3mg a day. People 'like xanax' -- its common to hear. I did, until I took it for awhile. Because it left the blood so quickly I knew it was time for my next dose every 7 hours and 45 minutes. If you wake up because your blood level gets to low, the only way to go back to sleep is to take the next dose (seriously)

The primary reason I take Klonopin is the long half life (I never gave valium a fair shot I'll admit). I also find that I get a tolerance to ativan quickly (could just be my perception, its been a long time). If i take 1 mg one day, i might have to take 2.5 the next to feel normal since i regularly take 2mg, but there is no urgency.

And that about does it. Benzos are terrific for what they do, and are tragically addictive. I really would like to get off them at some point but even after chemical withdrawl, long term use changes brain chemistry somewhat and it can take a year to feel normal again. There is a lady named Ashton that has written quite a bit about it. If you google her youll find her site.

So yes, Xanax is probably the most dangerous becuase its the shortest half life benzo youll take regularly if you are a genralized anxiety type patient.

Chris

I agree with the other poster who asked if anyone brought up alcohol/booze. I think alcohol is the most widespread, addictive, and "dangerous" anxiety medication people self treat themselves with. It probably has the quickest onset for relaxation and the best euphoric side effect; but also, the shortest half life, and worst withdrawals from chronic usage. IMO, a lot of people may unsuspectingly take benzo's to counter-act the hang-over anxiety, depression, and shakes they have during the day when not drinking.

It certainly takes a tole on society; however, I'm not for a return to prohibition.

It also chews your body to bits and pieces (in large/chronic amounts).

I don't think we even need to go into what alcohol and driving leads to...

Totally agree. Booze is VERY addictive b/c it's so seductive. It would be used in place of benzos except for the dead giveaway smell. And besides--it's "legal'--therefore, it's all right.

Notice that congressmen won't legalize pot (although they know their children have done it, at least in college--and more), but they'll suck up that booze at every gathering there is.

I wonder how many generations it will take before we quit putting up with the hypocrisy.....

Strawberry,

I'm going to steal this quote from you and use it claim made it up on my own!

It can be applied to so many things in life (not only benzo's or substances - but to so many routine things we do).

Hi nephro

One time I took Halcion to sleep, and I ended up having these seizure-like jaw clenches and muscle spasms that were very noticiable exactly 12 hours after I took it. I almost wrecked my car. I later found out that this is a rare side effect and that halcion is prescribed with another drug to prevent this. These spasms were bad, I could not talk, and I had to walk out of class and everything, people were staring at me.

I discontinued the med after 2 days and the seizure like effects never returned. Have you heard of this?

Bill

No I haven't! This is really surprising since, being a benzodiazepine, it would be thought to relieve a clenched jaw. I could believe a tight jaw as a withdrawal symptom (which seems quite a common benzo withdrawal symptom), but not after taking it just the once.

In fact, I've just looked at the manufacturer's Patient Information Leaflet, and they don't list anything like this.

I could imagine ANOTHER med being prescribed which causes jaw spasm, and the triazolam used to relieve it.

Very strange. If you have any more info, I would be very interested.

Lots of fun

"I don't think we even need to go into what alcohol and driving leads to..."



Well, If you live in Mayberry, Andy will take you home and let you sleep it off and Aunt Bee will fix you coffee and buckwheat pancakes next morning while Gomer fixes the dent in you car from running into that old elm tree.

Real world: you will do time

I believe that it would be women in their 50's or 60'S, It was typically prescribed to young women in the 70's. We just smoked pot in the 80's. (haha)

I think my whole problem with this question is that it really wants people to scream alprazloam (xanax) or another short acting benzo.

Well, it's not that simple. If you have a genetic predisposition to being addicted to downers or other substances (and I don't think this is true of every drug - especially something like methamphetamine which will make you insane), then you are going to have to hit bottom or realize you really want to quit. Otherwise, it's a wasted effort on all fronts.

Forcing someone to quit anything - accomplishes nothing....

Hey Nephro,

re: the jaw clenches and spasms

It was so odd, I do take a benzo, 2mg of clonopin, and Prozac. But the only change in my meds those 2 days was the halcion.

I remember I was installing a furnace and I had to talk to the customer and my jaw and lips got rigid and I had to excuse myself from the room and leave the jobsite. And I was drooling. At school, my face was violently stwitching and making funny faces that I could not control.

I was driving home that day and my legs froze on the floor of my car and my head was frozen to the left and I almost wrecked my vehicle.

I stupidly took it again the next night and I had to leave school and bite a pillow for hours because my jaw was going so crazy.

Now I know the muscle spasms associated with severe benzo withdrawal, they hurt and make you sore for days afterward and I have experienced mild seizures from unplanned c/t emergency benzo WD. I had to go to the ememgency room.

The reason I am telling you the above paragraph was because that is EXACTLY the kind of spasms the halcion gave me. I had my daily 2mg of clonopin so I know i wasn't having a w/d syndrome.

but i know it was the halcion because many years later I have never had another episode like i did the two days i took halcion for sleep.

That is so wierd.

Thanks for your input.

bill

Valium came out in the 60's and was bigger in the UK than here. But a good number of people had heavy V habits here. Oddly, Xanax was supposed to be a safer alternative.

Xanax is the most addictive of the Benzos; however, it is hard to really overdose on Benzos because they have a much higher tolerance level in the body than barbituates do. You would have to take massive amounts of Benzos in order to OD on them unless you are taking other CNS depressants with Benzos or drinking while on them other than they are pretty safe.

Well that explains why it took my doctors until 1993 to prescribe Xanax, it wasn't around when my problems with anxiety (now diagnosed as General Anxiety Disorder) first came about. Nice to know. As much as the drug has helped me I'm so glad they (didn't) advise me that it was the "miracle" drug of the late 80s. Sort of like Ritalin was the miracle drug of the 90s and it took several arguments and many fights with teachers and doctors to make sure my child was not prescribed it (Ritalin).

Xanax is a love/hate relationship. I hate it because I "have" to take it and I love it because it has worked wonders but I wish I were "normal" like everyone else and could function without it.

Wish I also knew why people took it for no reason. It only takes away my anxiety. If I had no anxiety my Dr. wouldn't prescribe it and I wouldn't take it. I wonder how it effects people with little to no anxiety? For me it makes me able to function in society.

The miracle drug huh. What a joke. More like the drug that makes you less anxious. It's also the drug that inhibits your ability to cope with anxious settings therefore you never learn how to deal with anxiety. It's also a pill that's highly addictive and one that you don't ever want to stop taking if you've ever been through withdrawals. I guess everything comes with a price.

Wish they would have warned me of the price so I could have decided for myself if I ever wanted to start taking it.

And when you have a fear of what it would be like to withdraw from Xanax what do you do? You take a Xanax to cure your anxiety. Neat little drug huh?

My answer to this question would be Xanax. If you don't have an anxiety disorder and if your doctor doesn't prescribe it do yourself a favor and stay away from it.

Barbiturates -much easier to overdose on these than benzos

Agreed.

Well in my opinion Xanax is the benzo that hits you hard! I have taken every benzo known to man and nothing works like the yellow bars that you get from walgreens. Those were the best. I used to get prescribed 180 X 2mg and the bottle said take as needed! And that was a 2 week supply. I used to take one bar a day or sometimes 4 bars depending on how I felt and I used to get like 5 refills!

Well anyways, Benzodiazapines are exremely addictive if you have an anxiety problem they sure help but its best to take them when needed and not overabuse them. Its easy to do but if you control yourself than the med will help alot.

take as needed---and heres 180 bars---LOL i cant even control 60 bars a month---so i run out early and never addicted

Speaking of anxiety meds, I was prescribed 1mg clonazapan before bed. It really does help me sleep better. Will I have a problem stopping it if necessary? I really would rather sleep naturally but now that I've been taking it have grown accustomed to the drowsyness effect, it's just easier.

It's very likely if you have been taking them regularly for a few days or weeks. You may wish to cut the dose down gradually to avoid rebound insomnia.

Thank you Nephro, I was hoping you would respond!