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#874271 - 04/12/09 01:09 PM Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA *****
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
Implementation of the Ryan Haight
Online Pharmacy Consumer Protection
Act of 2008

Please CLICK HERE to read

There is a period of time where people are welcome to comment on the RHA and you should all take some time to let the people in "charge" know how you feel about it
To help you find the area for comments I quote a post by Patient2all:
 Quote:
Of course, deadiversion.usdoj.gov doesn't exactly make it easy to figure out where to post the comments. It's also unusual for the 60 day comment period to begin after the implementation of a law. Suggests this law was rushed out with little forethought....

------

However to zero in on where we can make our actual comments, goto http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=0900006480944156 and click the link at the top that says: "Docket DEA-2009-0004"



If this help guide does not clearly show that they are clearly talking about OCS's and referral services I do not know what does. They call them "criminal facilitators"

Quoted are portions... see attachment for more...

The people that started all this at the RH web had an area for comments too but when the posts where not to their liking they removed it...

 Quote:
A. Reasons for the Legislation
The unlawful use of pharmaceutical
controlled substances has reached
alarming levels in the United States in
recent years, causing a substantial
detrimental effect on the public health
and safety. According to the most
recently published National Survey on
drug Use and Health (2007),5 6.9
million Americans reported using
psychotherapeutic drugs 6 nonmedically
during the prior month.7 With specific
regard to pain relievers, 5.2 million
respondents reported abusing these
drugs,8 which is an 18 percent increase
from 2004.9 This study further indicates
that, in the United States, the abuse of
prescription drugs is second only to that
of marijuana and is higher than the
abuse of cocaine, heroin and
hallucinogens combined.10 Among
persons aged 12 and older who reported
using illicit drugs for the first time in
2007, abuse of pain relievers was the
most common category of first-time
illicit drug use.11
The false sense of security that some
associate with the abuse of these
substances is also alarming. Many
mistakenly believe that if a drug may be
prescribed for medical use, abusing that
drug cannot be as harmful as abusing
more conventional ‘‘street’’ drugs, such
as heroin or cocaine. According to the
2005 Partnership Attitude Tracking
Study 12, 40 percent of teens surveyed
believe that prescription medicines are
‘‘much safer’’ to use than illegal drugs.
Furthermore, the same study concluded
that 31 percent believe there is ‘‘nothing
wrong’’ with using prescription
medicines without a prescription ‘‘once
in awhile.’’ 13
One of the main factors contributing
to the nationwide increase in the
diversion of pharmaceutical controlled
substances has been the rise in the
number of Internet sites that sell or
facilitate the sale of these drugs for other
than legitimate medical purposes. While
in-person ‘‘prescription mills’’
(practitioners’ offices that readily
supply drug seekers with prescriptions
for controlled substances without
establishing a legitimate medical basis
for doing so) have always been, and
remain, a significant source of
diversion, the advent of rogue Web sites
that cater to those who abuse
pharmaceutical controlled substances
has allowed the criminal operators of
these sites to exploit the anonymity of
the Internet to generate illicit sales of
controlled substances (and/or
prescriptions therefor) that far exceed
those of any in-person prescription mill.
This is particularly evident when
examining the data relating to the sales
of hydrocodone, which is the most
widely abused pharmaceutical
controlled substance in the United
States. According to data registered
distributors of controlled substances
provided to DEA 14 in 2006, 34
pharmacies in the United States that
were supplying rogue Internet sites
dispensed a total of more than 98
million dosage units of hydrocodone.
Hence, these pharmacies each
dispensed an average of approximately
2.9 million dosage units of hydrocodone
per pharmacy in a single year. By means
of comparison, the average pharmacy in
the United States dispenses
approximately 88,000 dosage units of
hydrocodone per year.
Congress passed the Ryan Haight Act
precisely because of ‘‘the increasing use
of prescription controlled substances by
adolescents and others for nonmedical
purposes, which has been exacerbated
by drug trafficking on the Internet.’’ 15
The person for whom the Act was
named, Ryan Haight, was ‘‘a California
high school honors student and athlete
who died in 2001 from an overdose of
controlled substances that he had
purchased from a rogue online
pharmacy.’’ 16 According to the Senate
Report accompanying the legislation,
‘‘Ease of access to the Internet,
combined with lack of medical
supervision, has led to tragic
consequences in the online purchase of
prescription controlled substances.’’ 17
The Senate Report then cited a list of
examples of persons in the United
States who had died from overdoses of
controlled substances obtained via the
Internet.18


 Quote:
B. Common Methods Employed by
Operators of Rogue Web Sites That Sell
Pharmaceutical Controlled Substances
The rogue Web sites that the Ryan
Haight Act seeks to eliminate
take on a
variety of appearances and use a variety
of methods. One common factor is that
all these Web sites are marketed toward
drug seekers who are willing to pay a
premium to obtain pharmaceutical
controlled substances without having a
legitimate medical need for them. While
the ‘‘business models’’ that the
operators of these sites employ to evade
detection by law enforcement and/or to
create the facade of compliance with the
law have evolved significantly over
time, there tend to be three categories of
participants in these schemes: the
prescribing practitioner; the pharmacy
that fills the prescriptions; and the
criminal facilitator (a non-DEA
registrant) who runs the operation.19
While it has always been illegal to
dispense a controlled substance without
a legitimate medical purpose, prior to
the Act, a rogue operator could design
a site that would make it clear to drug
seekers that pharmaceutical controlled
substances could be obtained through
the site without a legitimate medical
purpose. For example, a typical rogue
site would display prominently on its
homepage a list of the pharmaceutical
controlled substances that it sold and
prompt customers to click on their
desired drugs. These Web sites could
easily be found by using any of various
Internet search engines and entering
search terms such as ‘‘hydrocodone no
prescription.’’ Unsolicited e-mails or
other forms of online advertising and
marketing often steered potential
customers to these Web sites; the
advertisements announced that
controlled substances could be readily
obtained through the Web site without
an in-person medical evaluation and
sometimes without even a
prescription—thus insuring a drug
seeking customer could obtain the
controlled substance without a
legitimate medical need.
Thus, prior to passage of the Act,
attracting customers was relatively easy
for these rogue Web sites. However, to
deliver the goods that the customers
were seeking (pharmaceutical controlled
substances and/or prescriptions for
such), the operator of the rogue Web site
usually had to enlist the services of two
types of DEA registrants: a practitioner
and pharmacy. Thus, the typical
criminal facilitator had to recruit an
unscrupulous practitioner willing to
prescribe controlled substances without
a legitimate medical evaluation obtained
through a bona fide doctor-patient
relationship. While the overwhelming
majority of practitioners would want no
part of this type of improper
arrangement, criminal facilitators were
able to find some unscrupulous
practitioners willing to participate.
Investigations have revealed that these
facilitators often target practitioners
who carry significant debt, such as those
recently graduated from medical school,
or those who have retired and are
looking for some ‘‘extra income.’’
Regardless of the motivations of the
participating practitioners, the
facilitator would persuade them to enter
into an agreement whereby they would
agree to write prescriptions for
controlled substances without adhering
to the standard professional practices
employed by practitioners when
evaluating the medical condition of
patients and determining the
appropriate treatment in return for
payment from the facilitator based on
the number of prescriptions they would
write. These arrangements operated in
several ways. In some instances, the
facilitator would arrange for a
practitioner to issue prescriptions for
controlled substances based solely on
reviewing online questionnaires the
customers submitted to the Web site.
Other schemes involved facilitators
requiring the customers of the Web site
to fax some documentation that
purported to be the customers’ ‘‘medical
records’’ and then having an
unscrupulous practitioner issue
prescriptions for controlled substances
based on a ‘‘review’’ of these faxed
documents. A third type of scheme
involved the facilitator having
customers of the Web site call a
telephone number staffed by employees
of the site, answer a series of questions
purporting to create a ‘‘medical
history,’’ and then have unscrupulous
practitioners write the prescriptions
based on these answers. Whatever the
methods employed, these rogue Web
site operations were merely a sham, as
every step in the process was designed
to sell customers controlled substances
and/or prescriptions for controlled
substances without regard to actual
medical need.
Some criminal facilitators have been
content to take in the profits associated
with selling the prescriptions for
controlled substances. (Some rogue Web
sites charge customers a separate fee for
arranging the issuance of prescriptions.)
Others have sought to increase their
profits by also having customers fill the
prescriptions through a pharmacy
affiliated with the Web site. To achieve
the latter, the criminal facilitator needed
to enter into an agreement with an
unscrupulous pharmacy that was
willing—for a fee—to fill prescriptions
for controlled substances with
essentially no questions asked and for as
many prescriptions as the Web site
could steer toward the pharmacy.20 In
addition to paying the pharmacy for the
cost of the drugs, the criminal facilitator
would also typically pay the pharmacy
an agreed upon amount that, in some
instances, amounted to millions of
dollars. Given the amount of money to
be made from these arrangements, DEA
has seen pharmacies close their doors
completely to walk-in customers and
convert their entire business to filling
orders generated from rogue Web sites.
In some instances, criminal facilitators
have used multiple brick and mortar
pharmacies to service their list of drug
seeking customers. In other cases, a
single pharmacy has supplied multiple
rogue Web sites.
These rogue Web sites generally
provide the customer with a wide
variety of quick and easy payment
methods, such as cash-on-delivery, lines
of credit, and credit ‘‘gift’’ cards. They
also typically structure the various steps
of the ordering process so as to link and
shift the buyer to different Web sites,
making it difficult for investigators to
connect payments, products, and Web
providers together. Rarely do such rogue
Web sites contain any identifying
information about where the online
pharmacy is located or who owns or
operates the Web site. On the contrary,
these Web sites frequently fluctuate in
name and number minute by minute.
Finally, the typical rogue Web site fails
to provide any information on how a
patient may contact the prescribing
practitioner or the pharmacist to consult
with them about the drug(s) ordered,
including drug interactions and adverse
reactions.
Recognizing that these rogue Web
sites fuel the abuse of prescription
controlled substances and thereby
increase the number of resulting
overdoses and other harmful
consequences, Congress passed the
Ryan Haight Act to prevent the Internet
from being exploited to facilitate such
unlawful drug activity


 Quote:
The Act contains specific examples of
conduct which would violate 21 U.S.C.
841
(h)(1). These examples in the Act,
however, are not an exclusive list of the
types of conduct that constitute
violations of 21 U.S.C. 841(h)(1). With
this proviso made clear, 21 U.S.C.
841(h)(2) lists the following as examples
of violations:
(A) Delivering, distributing, or dispensing
a controlled substance by means of the
Internet by an online pharmacy that is not
validly registered with a modification
authorizing such activity as required by [21
U.S.C. 823(f)] (unless exempt from such
registration);
(B) Writing a prescription for a controlled
substance for the purpose of delivery,
distribution, or dispensation by means of the
Internet in violation of [21 U.S.C. 829(e)];
(C) Serving as an agent, intermediary, or
other entity that causes the Internet to be
used to bring together a buyer and seller to
engage in the dispensing of a controlled
substance in a manner not authorized by [21
U.S.C. 823(f) or 829(e)];
(D) Offering to fill a prescription for a
controlled substance based solely on a
consumer’s completion of an online medical
questionnaire; and
(E) Making a material false, fictitious, or
fraudulent statement or representation in a
notification or declaration under [21 U.S.C.
831(d) or (e)].
As these examples are largely selfilluminating,
and some have already
been addressed in this preamble, only
limited further amplification is
provided here. Paragraph (C), in
particular, reflects that the Act was
intended not only to prohibit DEA
registrants from using the Internet to
facilitate the unlawful dispensing of
controlled substances, but to also
prohibit non-DEA registrants from doing
so. Most notably, paragraph (C) is aimed
squarely at the criminal facilitator
whose ‘‘business plan’’ for operating a
rogue online pharmacy is to recruit an
unscrupulous practitioner to write
prescriptions based on insufficient or
nonexistent medical evaluations and/or
an unscrupulous pharmacist to fill such
prescriptions.
The Act contains certain categories of
conduct that do not result in the
participants falling within the Act’s
definition of an online pharmacy.
Specifically, 21 U.S.C. 841(h)(3) states:
(A) This subsection [21 U.S.C.
841(h)(1)] does not apply to:
(i) The delivery, distribution, or
dispensation of controlled substances by
nonpractitioners to the extent authorized by
their registration under [the CSA];
(ii) The placement on the Internet of
material that merely advocates the use of a
controlled substance or includes pricing
information without attempting to propose or
facilitate an actual transaction involving a
controlled substance; or
(iii) except as provided in subparagraph
(B), any activity that is limited to—
(I) the provision of a telecommunications
service, or of an Internet access service or
Internet information location tool (as those
terms are defined in section 231 of the
Communications Act of 1934) [47 U.S.C.
231]; or
(II) the transmission, storage, retrieval,
hosting, formatting, or translation (or any
combination thereof) of a communication,
without selection or alteration of the content
of the communication, except that deletion of
a particular communication or material made
VerDate Nov<24>2008 18:18 Apr 03, 2009 Jkt 217001 PO 00000 Frm 00010 Fmt 4701 Sfmt 4700 E:\FR\FM\06APR2.SGM 06APR2 pwalker on PROD1PC71 with RULES2
Federal Register / Vol. 74, No. 64 / Monday, April 6, 2009 / Rules and Regulations 15605
33 Under the CSIEA, the importation of controlled
substances into the United States is prohibited
except by persons registered with DEA to do so or
persons exempted from such requirement. 21 U.S.C.
952, 957, 960. In accordance with the CSIEA, DEA
has issued a regulation authorizing a person to
import certain controlled substances for personal
medical use, provided the person has the drugs in
his possession upon entering the United States,
makes the required declaration to the U.S. Customs
and Border Protection, and otherwise complies
fully with the requirements of the regulation. 21
CFR 1301.26; 69 FR 55343 (2004). Under no
circumstances is it permissible under the CSIEA or
the regulations for a person to have controlled
substances shipped into the United States for
personal medical use.
34 United States v. Katz, 445 F.3d 1023, 1031 (8th
Cir. 2006), cert. denied, 127 S.Ct. 421 (2006).
35 United States v. Lawson, 682 F.2d 480, 482 (4th
Cir. 1982) (citations omitted), cert. denied, 459 U.S.
991 (1982).
by another person in a manner consistent
with section 230(c) of the Communications
Act of 1934 [47 U.S.C. 230(c)] shall not
constitute such selection or alteration of the
content of the communication.
(B) The exceptions under subclauses (I)
and (II) of subparagraph (A)(iii) shall not
apply to a person acting in concert with a
person who violates paragraph (1).
Thus, paragraph (A)(i) allows DEAregistered
nonpractitioners (such as
manufacturers and distributors) to
utilize the Internet in carrying out
activities authorized by their DEA
registrations (and otherwise in
conformity with the CSA) without being
subject to liability under 21 U.S.C.
841(h)(1). Paragraph (A)(ii) allows for
Web sites that advocate the use of
controlled substances or contain pricing
information ‘‘without attempting to
propose or facilitate an actual
transaction involving a controlled
substance.’’ Paragraph (A)(iii) exempts
from application of 21 U.S.C. 841(h)(1)
Internet service providers, Web hosting
services, and certain other specified
entities that do not alter content of
Internet transmissions. However, it is
crucial to bear in mind that the
exception of paragraph (A)(iii) does not
apply to ‘‘a person acting in concert
with a person who violates [21 U.S.C.
841(h)(1)].’’ Thus, any person whose
conduct would be sufficient to prove
that he conspired to violate 21 U.S.C.
841(h)(1), or aided and abetted such
violation, is not immune from
prosecution under paragraph (A)(iii).
The second new criminal offense
added by the Act is 21 U.S.C.
843(c)(2)(A). This provision expressly
prohibits using the Internet to advertise
illegal transactions in controlled
substances. Specifically, this provision
states:
It shall be unlawful for any person to
knowingly or intentionally use the Internet,
or cause the Internet to be used, to advertise
the sale of, or to offer to sell, distribute, or
dispense, a controlled substance where such
sale, distribution, or dispensing is not
authorized by [the CSA] or by the Controlled
Substances Import and Export Act.


Attachments
ryanhaightactimplementation.pdf (317 downloads)
Description: Implementation of the RHA




Edited by Administrator (05/09/09 09:12 AM)
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#874303 - 04/12/09 02:17 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
resorts Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 900
Loc: Earth - Usually
Did anyone else read the PDF file? It states effective date 4/13/09 NOT 04/15/09. Interesting.

Top
#874306 - 04/12/09 02:21 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: resorts]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
The RHA seems to say all OCS's are considered online pharmacies even if they say they are referral services. I have not noticed any OCS displaying the info the this law requires on their Webs.
Is there any OCS rep here that can comment on this?

_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#874324 - 04/12/09 02:51 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
tigersmom Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5324
Loc: Reality
 Originally Posted By: Administrator
The RHA seems to say all OCS's are considered online pharmacies even if they say they are referral services. I have not noticed any OCS displaying the info the this law requires on their Webs.
Is there any OCS rep here that can comment on this?



I noticed this too A. Basically, ALL OCS will have to be licensed through the DEA to be considered legit is how I read it...
_________________________
"Smoking, drinking, never thinking of tomorrow, nonchalant..Is that all you really want? No, sophisticated lady..The Duke"

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#874336 - 04/12/09 03:47 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tigersmom]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
Acmedicalgroup ceased operations and changed their Web to say:
 Quote:
IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE RYAN HAIGHT LAW/AMENDMENT TO THE FEDERAL CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES ACT, WE HAVE NOW CEASED OPERATIONS.


They offered services very similar to other OCS that are still in operation or online....
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#874356 - 04/12/09 04:49 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tigersmom]
genethebean1 Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 3315
Loc: The Boonies
 Originally Posted By: tigersmom
 Originally Posted By: Administrator
The RHA seems to say all OCS's are considered online pharmacies even if they say they are referral services. I have not noticed any OCS displaying the info the this law requires on their Webs.
Is there any OCS rep here that can comment on this?



I noticed this too A. Basically, ALL OCS will have to be licensed through the DEA to be considered legit is how I read it...


So, does this mean that using an OCS to facilitate a F2F will be illegal come the 15th since they aren't licensed through the DEA? It seems to me that they will all just become a doctor referral service - and I don't believe that is illegal...
_________________________
The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it - Voltaire

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#874360 - 04/12/09 04:58 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: genethebean1]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
The RHA defines what an online pharmacy is and that is the law.
OCS and F2F mean nothing legally and OCS and F2F mean different things to different people.

Best would be if you provide the Web address of the service you are wondering about.
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#874366 - 04/12/09 05:34 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
Browser6252 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 68
I am wondering how F2F sites like NNCIP will be affected. They have very recently changed their treatment plans. Their site now indicates a F2F with the same doctor is required for each "Re-Prescription", which generally means every 30 days rather than once a year.


Edited by Browser6252 (04/12/09 05:36 PM)

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#874481 - 04/12/09 11:51 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Browser6252]
habib301 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 01/02/07
Posts: 209
Loc: md
A F2F is required once a year with NNCIP. The refills do not require a F2F but I do speak with my Dr. each month by phone(his preference).
_________________________
WHAT LIES AHEAD IS ALREADY HERE..."THE TRAVELER" JOHN TWELVE HAWKS

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#874551 - 04/13/09 09:27 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Browser6252]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
Since their rep is registered here this question would be best answered by them.

It looks like what they offer, referrals to doctors offering in-person consultations, is within the law and it does not look like they can be considered an online pharmacy

But the law is so broad in the definition of online pharmacies that interpretation can make online pharmacies out of many sites... even a link to a referral service may make a site qualify as an online pharmacy

Quote from page 5 of the attacked document:

 Quote:
(51) The term ‘‘deliver, distribute, or
dispense by means of the Internet’’ refers,
respectively, to any delivery, distribution, or
dispensing of a controlled substance that is
caused or facilitated by means of the Internet.
This definition is plainly broad in
scope, encompassing any activity
utilizing the Internet that causes or
facilitates the delivery, distribution, or
dispensing of a controlled substance.
This definition is incorporated into the
Act’s definition of an ‘‘online
pharmacy’’:
(52) The term ‘‘online pharmacy’’ * * *
means [with certain exceptions discussed
below] a person, entity, or Internet site,
whether in the United States or abroad, that
knowingly or intentionally delivers,
distributes, or dispenses, or offers or attempts
to deliver, distribute, or dispense, a
controlled substance by means of the
Internet.
The definition of ‘‘online pharmacy’’ is
also broad in scope. First, it includes
not only a ‘‘person’’ 23 but also any other
‘‘entity’’ or ‘‘Internet site’’—‘‘whether in
the United States or abroad’’—that
otherwise meets the definition of an
‘‘online pharmacy.’’ Second, it also
includes not only any such person,
entity or Internet site ‘‘that knowingly or
intentionally delivers, distributes, or
dispenses * * * a controlled substance
by means of the Internet,’’ but also any
such one who ‘‘offers or attempts’’ to do
so.
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#874614 - 04/13/09 12:16 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
SheBee Offline
Member

Registered: 03/16/09
Posts: 134
Loc: Oregon
Clear as MUD it is!

Do you suppose legit pain clinics will be advertising in search of new patients now that tele-medicine is illegal?

Top
#874656 - 04/13/09 01:25 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
kserah Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/05/04
Posts: 3786
Loc: In the moment
 Originally Posted By: Administrator


It looks like what they offer, referrals to doctors offering in-person consultations, is within the law and it does not look like they can be considered an online pharmacy.


I think you are right about that. Referrals on the Internet for a face-to-face meeting would not fall under that criteria.

What they don't want is for the doctor to send the prescription to a pharmacy and have the pharmacy ship out the goods. The doctor will have to write or send the prescription to the patient, then the client can get it filled.

They are trying to cut down on the number of controlled substance being routed by FedEx, USPS, UPS, etc. Essentially, this does make it more difficult for teenagers to get medications delivered to their door via a credit card with mom or dad's name on it. And you know a teenager is not going in for a face to face.
_________________________
Help one another and you will find you are helping yourself.

And if you can, dance; nothing lifts the spirit higher.



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#874765 - 04/13/09 05:01 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: kserah]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
Has anyone noticed any "online pharmacy" or OCS changing their Web to include the info and disclimers required by this law or any OCS's doing business as usual as if the RHA was not about them?
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#874920 - 04/13/09 11:56 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
0001ginger Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/05/08
Posts: 15
I read through what was posted for the Ryan Act and have a question. I didn't see where it said you couldn't receive anything after the 15th? A couple of companies are saying if you get a fill in b4 the 15th they will honor some more fills. Where does it say the receiver would get in trouble for accepting?? Any help please???

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#875047 - 04/14/09 10:26 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: 0001ginger]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
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Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
The Chatcp.com site now says:
"ChatCP is no longer accepting Requests for Consults

Even though the Ryan Haight act has been put on hold, it is the consensus of our legal team and others in the business that the Government will prosecute regardless of the standing of the bill. So, effective immediately, ChatCp will no longer be able to offer consult referrals."


This info made available the 6th by the DOJ and the DEA does not mention the law is on hold:
Ryan Haight Act information offered by the DOJ and DEA


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>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#875064 - 04/14/09 11:18 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: kserah]
dixiechick Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 11/29/02
Posts: 418
Loc: Deep South
Well, a teenager wont get it from a Dr. F2F. They will just go to the local dealer at school and get it from them F2F. That is the sad part. The kids wont be nearly as affected as we CP patients are.

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#875075 - 04/14/09 11:53 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
stevo1 Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2557
Loc: Top of The World!
 Originally Posted By: Administrator
Has anyone noticed any "online pharmacy" or OCS changing their Web to include the info and disclimers required by this law or any OCS's doing business as usual as if the RHA was not about them?


1ST Class Care Has Changed their Home Page!
_________________________
I Need to Stare into my Avatar and Relax!

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#875089 - 04/14/09 12:18 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
maandmister Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 03/07/07
Posts: 211
I found this info on courthousenews.com

"DATES: This interim rule is effective April 13, 2009, except SUBSEC 1300.04, 1301.19, and 1304.40, which are effective April 6, 2009. Section 1300.04(i) (the definition of "practice of telemedicine") has an implementation date of January 15, 2010, unless such date is superseded by future regulatory actions as explained in the SUPPLEMENTARY"

No idea what that really means, but could that be the "on hold" bs that chat is talking about??

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#875549 - 04/15/09 06:40 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: stevo1]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
 Originally Posted By: stevo1
 Originally Posted By: Administrator
Has anyone noticed any "online pharmacy" or OCS changing their Web to include the info and disclimers required by this law or any OCS's doing business as usual as if the RHA was not about them?


1ST Class Care Has Changed their Home Page!


Thanks
Now their front page says:

 Quote:
Our Mission:

Our reason to exist is to arrange that you can consult with a sympathetic and respectful medical practitioner who is resident and licensed in the u.s. and who will thoughtfully consider your complaint and authorize appropriate treatment and medication – all with outstanding personalized customer service. In accordance with the "Ryan Haight Online Pharmace Consumer Protection Act of 2008" our consultation cycle can begin only with an in person face to face medical evaluation by the practitioner who issues a precription to you for a controlled substance. The practioner will decide upon the number and timing of all subsequent "follow up" telephone consultations as may be required by good practice and local law. The initial in person medical evaluation will take place in the state in which the practitioner is licensed. We encourage the practitioners who work with us, and subject to their professional decision, to follow a "no refill-one month follow up" protocol, to include necessary blood work in their exam and to secure a patient agreement when appropriate."

1st Class Care complies with the requirements of Section 311(c) of 21 U.S.G. 802 with respect to the delivery, sale or offer for sale of controlled substances. Please Click Here for information to Section 311(c). With respect to said compliance, 1st Class Care emphasizes that it is not a "pharmacy" in the usual sense and does not posess,sell or ship any medication whatsoever and has submitted all registration information required by Section 311(c) reflects that situation.


That is the first site I notice doing something "visible" about the RHA
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#876034 - 04/15/09 09:01 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
 Quote:
News Release [print-friendly page]
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Garrison Courtney
Number: 202-307-7977
April 13, 2008

New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies Go Into Effect TODAY
Regulations Implement Ryan Haight Act

APR 13 -- (Washington, DC)- New Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) regulations implementing the Ryan Haight Online Pharmacy Consumer Protection Act of 2008 go into effect Monday, April 13. These regulations will help to prevent the illegal diversion of powerful medications that can cause harm to consumers for whom they were not intended, for the profit of those who are not licensed to handle them and who would exploit the uninformed. The Interim Final Rule was published in the Federal Register this week, and the public has 60 days from its publication to submit comments to the DEA.

The Ryan Haight Act, named for an 18-year-old who died after overdosing on a prescription painkiller he obtained on the Internet from a medical doctor he never saw, was enacted on October 15, 2008, through the joint efforts of his mother, Francine Haight, and members of Congress, with the support of the DEA.

“Now that this law has been put into force it will be harder for cyber-criminals to supply controlled substances over the Internet and easier for us to prosecute them,” said DEA Acting Administrator Michele M. Leonhart. “These regulations add important new provisions to prevent the illegal distribution of controlled substances through the Internet. Its implementation will increase Internet safety and help prevent tragedies like Ryan Haight’s death from happening again.”

The statute amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) by adding several new provisions to prevent the illegal distribution of controlled substances by means of the Internet, including:

New definitions, such as “online pharmacy” and “deliver, distribute, or dispense by means of the Internet”;
A requirement of at least one face-to-face patient medical evaluation prior to issuance of a controlled substance prescription;
Registration requirements for online pharmacies;
Internet pharmacy website disclosure information requirements; and
Prescription reporting requirements for online pharmacies.
Consistent with the CSA itself, the Ryan Haight Act relates solely to controlled substances. Controlled substances are those psychoactive drugs and other substances – including narcotics, stimulants, depressants, hallucinogens, and anabolic steroids – that are placed in one of the five schedules of the CSA due to their potential for abuse and likelihood that they may cause psychological or physical dependence when abused. Controlled substances constitute only a small percentage of all pharmaceutical drugs. Approximately 10 percent of all drug prescriptions written in the United States are for controlled substances, with the remaining approximately 90 percent of prescriptions being written for non-controlled substances. The amendments to the CSA made by the Ryan Haight Act, as well as the regulations being issued here, do not apply to non-controlled substances.

Unscrupulous or “rogue” Internet pharmacies exist to profit from the sale of controlled prescription medicines to buyers who have not seen a doctor and don’t have a prescription from a registered physician. The pharmacies lack quality assurance and accountability, and their products pose a danger to buyers. They pretend to be authentic by operating websites that advertise powerful drugs with the “approval” of a “doctor” working for the drug trafficking network. Prescription medications are powerful drugs that, while lifesaving under some circumstances, can be harmful or even lethal under others, and registered physicians and pharmacists exist to advise consumers on the difference. DEA maintains a hotline for reporting suspicious Internet pharmacies. Call 1-877-792-2873 or click on the “Report Suspicious Internet Pharmacies” icon on the home page of http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov.

Like Haight, nearly one in five teenagers (19%) has used a prescription medication to get high, according to the 2008 Partnership Attitude Tracking Survey (PATS) conducted by the Partnership for a drug-Free America. The same survey found that two in five teens believe the fallacy that prescription medicines obtained without a prescription are “much safer” to use than illegal drugs. The 2008 Monitoring the Future survey sponsored by the National Institute on drug Abuse found that 7 of the top 10 drugs abused by high school seniors are prescription or over-the-counter medications. Prescription drugs are now as common as marijuana as the gateway to recreational drug use and abuse by teenagers.

For more information clarifying these new regulations or for information on how to submit written or electronic comments about them within the 60-day comment period, go to http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov. For more information on Ryan Haight, go to http://www.familieschangingamerica.org/board-story-ryan-h.html. For general information about drugs (including prescription drugs), drug abuse and prevention, go to http://www.getsmartaboutdrugs.com.
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#876042 - 04/15/09 09:27 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: dixiechick]
dpalmento Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 59
Yeah and a lot of these kids steal them from their parents or grandparents who are cancer patients or chronic pain patients. Sad, really...

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#876345 - 04/16/09 01:49 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: dpalmento]
genethebean1 Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 3315
Loc: The Boonies
Since I'm traveling right now, I am not able to keep up with the messages, so forgive me if this has already been answered.

Now that the 15th has come and gone, I'm wondering if anyone has gotten a refill (from a previous tele-med consult) since the 15th.

For example, I know that PPC was letting people re-consult and they pretty much promised that people would get their refills even after the 15th but I'm wondering if in fact this is happening.
_________________________
The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it - Voltaire

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#876669 - 04/17/09 04:00 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: genethebean1]
Shraggler Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/03/09
Posts: 14
This is more of the current American way of thinking. Instead of taking responsibility for one's actions, we should all blame someone else and have the government enforce restrictions and penalties for our own stupidity and negligence.

Because someone does something stupid in this country, the rest of us have to suffer for this irresponsible act. Instead of everyone condemning irresponsibility, the doctors (and ultimately the rest of us) are held accountable and responsible for someone deliberately doing something to themselves.

Are we going to ban everything dangerous because there are idiots out there? Everything dies. Are there people out there that are actually ignorant to this fact? It's completely astounding of the audacious stupidity of certain people in this country.

Where is the accountability? Where is common decency?

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#876834 - 04/17/09 01:16 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: genethebean1]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
Under the law, pharmacies can send out refills, provided the script was received before 4/13/09. It is however, up to the pharmacy (like any pharmacy) to honor refills. Ask anyone who has received a direct script- their refills are still valid. The law doesnt make it illegal to send refills, only no more consults after 4/13/09.

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#876952 - 04/17/09 04:48 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tem33]
zack1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 24
I recieved a new direct script dated 4/7, but did not bring it to the pharm yet as my previous script had not yet run out till now.
Is this a legal script?
Thanks for any info.


Edited by zack1 (04/17/09 04:48 PM)

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#877018 - 04/17/09 06:19 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: zack1]
travelman Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Darkest depths of Mordor
cyber-criminals the new dirty word--like terrorist

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#877335 - 04/18/09 03:19 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: zack1]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
yes, it is legal as long as it was written before 4/13

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#877404 - 04/18/09 06:27 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tem33]
zack1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 24
Thank you Tem, I appreciate your help.
I'm a bit reluctant/nervous about bringing it to the pharmacy as I'm thinking they are focused on the new regs, and probably not willing to discuss the dates.
A difficult spot, as I know I have legit need for the meds, but don't want to debate laws with whomever I submit it too, or be told I'm breaking the law.
Are there mail order pharms that might accept/fill the script?
Again, thanks for any advice/help. This is a crazy situation for those of us that suffer from chronic pain (me, multiple pain issues: degenerative disc disease/Crohns disease/anal fistula) and found telemedicine to be a discreet and effective manner to obtain relief which allows us to function and work like everybody else.

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#877432 - 04/18/09 09:07 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: zack1]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
I do not know if a mail order pharmacy will fill a direct script-In My opinion, it's worth a try. They tend to be a little more strict than a regular pharmacy.

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#877461 - 04/18/09 10:16 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: zack1]
patient2all Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
 Quote:
I'm a bit reluctant/nervous about bringing it to the pharmacy as I'm thinking they are focused on the new regs, and probably not willing to discuss the dates.
A difficult spot, as I know I have legit need for the meds, but don't want to debate laws with whomever I submit it too, or be told I'm breaking the law.


Not for a moment do I want to minimize the devastating impact this ill-crafted and ill-named law has had on Chronic Pain patients, but:

I'm very inclined to think that the typical pharmacist and less so the typical poorly trained pharmacist tech has any clue about this "Ryan Haight Law".

There was very little mainstream media mention of its actual implementation. Similarly, pharmacy niche journals hardly contain a mention of it.

Even on the forum where Ryan Haight was a highly respected "guru" when it came to dangerous, scary drug concoctions, there is zero mention of the law. The top two discussions right now are why hasn't Obama fully legalized MJ yet and a "denial discussion" about a report that their "X" might not always be pure....

-------

It's mostly us speaking of the cruel impact that this act has had on our attempts at living a semi-normal life.

Again, that is not meant to minimize the actual scope and ramifications we will feel as a result of this law.

The last thing I'd want to do is lull any of us into a false sense of complacency. We're now easier than ever targets to possibly prosecute, given the vague, jumbled wording of this law.

-------

Still, in my experience, pharmacists tend to be clueless about anything beyond the basics they might have learned back in pharmacy school.

Just this year, 2 disturbing knowledge lapses happened that I recall of the top of my head. There were others too.....

1) A pharmacist who didn't have the hydrocodone formulation the doctor had prescribed in stock rationalized that she could substitute a higher hydrocodone dosage. Why? Because hydrocodone is only a Schedule 4 medication

2) Another recent time when I was prescribed 7.5/500, the pharmacist was suspicious. Why? There is no such thing as hydrocodone 7.5/500. It needed to be verified as to how a physician would be so ignorant in putting down this "fake" dosage. The less than subtle implication was that the Rx itself was a fake ("I can't fill this, there is a problem with the Rx and I can't discuss it with you".)

As the doctor wasn't reachable for a few days, I brought in a printout from pharmer.org to "prove" 7.5/500 existed. Of course, I could have easily "faked" the printout too, but that never occurred to the pharmacist ;\)

For that matter, it was on the shelf, in the PDR and no doubt could have been found on

------

Guess my point is while you must take care and be vigilant, don't assume your typical pharmacist at a chain outlet is "all knowing" and on top of every change in the law that comes down the pike, especially when it's at the national level.

Don't go by me because I live in a less repressive state than some and I'm a bit more daring. However, were it me, I would get that Direct Script while the getting might still be good.

Good luck,

patient2all
_________________________
I'll be back...

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#877578 - 04/19/09 09:19 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: patient2all]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
The propatientcare.com site says:
 Quote:
Due to pending approval of the Ryans Haight Act, the doctors and pharmacies are restructing their operations. We are working with them in the efforts to create and in-person structure which will allow you to continue. Please be patient and we will contact you shortly.


The 1healthrx.com site says:

 Quote:
Welcome

To the Clients of 1healthRx and those who are currently searching for services, although we are no longer offering past services (due to regulation change- http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6353 ), we have found a proper Face to Face Clinic in which to help aid in patient services. F2FDoc.com will be offering face to face services for all 1healthrx clients and to help the transition 1HealthRx c/s will stay on to address questions and concerns all throughout your entire experience with the F2FDoc.com(use code REF006 to receive $30 off your initial consult). Everyone will be emailed accordingly, if you have not received an email concerning this please contact our c/s at 1healthrxbackup@gmail.com. Thank You, -1HealthRx
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#878489 - 04/21/09 09:48 AM New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act
cuddles17981 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 1142
Loc: SoMeWhEreOuThErE
New drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) regulations implementing the Ryan Haight Act went into effect on April 13th. The Interim Final Rule was published in the Federal Register this week, and the public has 60 days from its publication to submit comments to the DEA.

The Ryan Haight Act was named for an 18-year-old who died after overdosing on a prescription painkiller he obtained on the Internet from a medical doctor he never saw. After his death, Haight's story became a rallying point for relatives of others who had died from prescription drug overdoses to encourage the passage of the legislation that bears his name.

Like Haight, nearly one in five teenagers has used a prescription medication to get high, according to the 2008 Partnership Attitude Tracking Survey (PATS) conducted by the Partnership for a drug-Free America. The same survey found that two in five teens believe the fallacy that prescription medicines obtained without a prescription are "much safer" to use than illegal drugs. The 2008 Monitoring the Future survey sponsored by the National Institute on drug Abuse found that 7 of the top 10 drugs abused by high school seniors are prescription or over-the-counter medications. Prescription drugs are now as common as marijuana as the gateway to recreational drug use and abuse by teenagers.

Unscrupulous or "rogue" Internet pharmacies exist to profit from the sale of controlled prescription medicines to buyers who have not seen a doctor and don't have a prescription from a registered physician. The pharmacies lack quality assurance and accountability, and their products pose a danger to buyers. They pretend to be authentic by operating websites that advertise powerful drugs with the "approval" of a "doctor" working for the drug trafficking network. Prescription medications are powerful drugs that, while lifesaving under some circumstances, can be harmful or even lethal under others, and registered physicians and pharmacists exist to advise consumers on the difference. DEA maintains a hotline for reporting suspicious Internet pharmacies.

"Now that this law has been put into force it will be harder for cyber-criminals to supply controlled substances over the Internet and easier for us to prosecute them," said DEA Acting Administrator Michele M. Leonhart. "These regulations add important new provisions to prevent the illegal distribution of controlled substances through the Internet. Its implementation will increase Internet safety and help prevent tragedies like Ryan Haight's death from happening again."

The statute amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) by adding several new provisions to prevent the illegal distribution of controlled substances by means of the Internet. The Rules would require at least one face-to-face medical evaluation before a patient could receive a prescription for a controlled substance over the Internet.

The new Rules also place tougher restrictions on online pharmacies. The Rules create new definitions of what classifies as an online pharmacy and what it means to deliver, distribute or dispense meds by means of the Internet.

Rather than try to block all online pharmaceutical sales, the Rules called for by the Ryan Haight Act put online pharmaceutical sales on an equal regulatory footing with sales made through a brick-and-mortar facility. The Rules require an endorsement of an existing registration to allow existing pharmacies to sell controlled substances online. This means law enforcement will be able to carefully scrutinize all applications for such registration and be able to easily separate legitimate and illegitimate Internet operations. The Rules also set prescription reporting requirements for online pharmacies.

Consistent with the CSA itself, the Ryan Haight Act relates solely to controlled substances. Controlled substances are those psychoactive drugs and other substances - including narcotics, stimulants, depressants, hallucinogens, and anabolic steroids -- that are placed in one of the five schedules of the CSA due to their potential for abuse and likelihood that they may cause psychological or physical dependence when abused. Controlled substances constitute only a small percentage of all pharmaceutical drugs. Approximately 10 percent of all drug prescriptions written in the United States are for controlled substances, with the remaining approximately 90 percent of prescriptions being written for non-controlled substances. The amendments to the CSA made by the Ryan Haight Act, as well as the regulations being issued here, do not apply to non-controlled substances.
_________________________
"Everyone has a photographic memory
....some just don't have any film."


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#878491 - 04/21/09 09:51 AM New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies
cuddles17981 Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 1142
Loc: SoMeWhEreOuThErE
APR 13 -- (Washington, DC)- New drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) regulations implementing the Ryan Haight Online Pharmacy Consumer Protection Act of 2008 go into effect Monday, April 13. These regulations will help to prevent the illegal diversion of powerful controlled substances by means of the Internet. Such medications can cause harm to consumers for whom they were not intended. The Interim Final Rule was published in the Federal Register this week, and the public has 60 days from its publication date to submit comments to the DEA.

The Ryan Haight Act, named for an 18-year-old who died after overdosing on a prescription painkiller he obtained on the Internet from a medical doctor he never saw, was enacted on October 15, 2008 through the joint efforts of his mother, Francine Haight, and members of Congress, with the support of the DEA.

“Now that this law has been put into force it will be harder for cyber-criminals to ply controlled substances over the Internet and easier for us to prosecute them,” said DEA Acting Administrator Michele M. Leonhart. “These regulations add important new provisions to prevent the illegal distribution of controlled substances through the Internet. Its implementation will increase Internet safety and help prevent tragedies like Ryan Haight’s death from happening again.”

The statute amends the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) by adding several new provisions to prevent the illegal distribution of controlled substances by means of the Internet, including:

New definitions, such as “online pharmacy” and “deliver, distribute, or dispense by means of the Internet”;
A requirement of at least one face-to-face patient medical evaluation prior to issuance of a controlled substance prescription;
Registration requirements for online pharmacies;
Internet pharmacy website disclosure information requirements; and
Prescription reporting requirements for online pharmacies.
Consistent with the CSA itself, the Ryan Haight Act relates solely to controlled substances, specifically, those psychoactive drugs and other substances–including narcotics, stimulants, depressants, hallucinogens, and anabolic steroids–that are placed in one of the five schedules of the CSA due to their potential for abuse and likelihood that they may cause psychological or physical dependence when abused. Controlled substances constitute approximately 10 percent of all drug prescriptions written in the United States. The amendments to the CSA made by the Ryan Haight Act, as well as the regulations being issued here, do not apply to non-controlled substances.

Consumers are advised that some websites operating on the Internet are legal, and others are not. Many of the legitimate Internet pharmacies have voluntarily sought certification as “Verified Internet Pharmacy Practice Sites” from the National Association of Boards of Pharmacy. However, unscrupulous or “rogue” Internet pharmacies exist only to profit from the sale of controlled prescription medicines to buyers who do not have a legitimate medical need for the medications. These rogue sites lack quality assurance and accountability, and their products pose a distinct danger to buyers. They pretend to be authentic by operating legitimate-looking websites that advertise powerful drugs with the approval of a doctor, but such doctors are employees of the drug trafficking organization. Because prescription medications are powerful drugs that have legitimate uses but can also be harmful or even lethal, DEA maintains a hotline for reporting suspicious Internet pharmacies. Call 1-877-792-2873 or click on the “Report Suspicious Internet Pharmacies” icon on the home page of http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov.

Like Ryan Haight, nearly one in five teenagers has used a prescription medication to get high, according to the 2006 Partnership Attitude Tracking Study (PATS) conducted by the Partnership for a drug-Free America. The same survey found that two in five teens believe the fallacy that prescription medicines obtained without a prescription are “much safer” to use than illegal drugs. The 2007 Monitoring the Future survey sponsored by the National Institute on drug Abuse found that 7 of the top 11 drugs abused by high school seniors are either prescription or over-the-counter medications. Unfortunately, prescription drugs are now the drug of choice for a large percentage of new initiates among teenagers, even surpassing marijuana.

For more information clarifying these new regulations, or for information on how to submit written or electronic comments about them within the 60-day comment period, go to http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov. For more information on Ryan Haight, go to http://www.familieschangingamerica.org/board-story-ryan-h.html. For general information about drugs (including prescription drugs), drug abuse, and prevention, go to http://www.getsmartaboutdrugs.com.
_________________________
"Everyone has a photographic memory
....some just don't have any film."


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#878554 - 04/21/09 12:32 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: cuddles17981]
patient2all Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
This is such a victory?

Then how come this draconian amendment to the CSA, crafted after a reckless young adult took his ultimate trip seems to be of no importance to his peers?

The message board where Ryan Haight was known as a " a guru, a master at mixing the drugs he bought online, a deft chronicler of his own trips " has had zero concern about this new law and its impact on their "experimentation"?

There is not even a mention or a discussion of the law among these surviving or next generation "ravers".

Right now that forum's members are vigoursly disputing a report that claims the "X" they are buying is less than "99 & 44/100% pure."

Vying for second place on Ryan Haight's favorite forum is a discussion wondering why it's taking so long for Obama to legalize MJ.

These are your children and/or stupid young adults. Precisely those the law was designed to "protect".

--------

On this forum we mostly see adults, very often older adults wondering how they'll maintain some continuity of needed medical treatment for Chronic Pain in an opiophobic national climate. Sadly, the fear of this taint even extends to the medical community whose very oath calls upon their membership to alleviate suffering.
--------

Sadly, given the current political climate, the crowd at Ryan Haight's favorite and still unmolested forum have a greater shot of seeing their "weed" legalized before many members here see relief from unrelenting pain through legitimate and totally legal medication.

MJ is simply considered "hip" and acceptable in so many circles nowadays. Even many of these young folks' parents retain fond memories of their bongs.

Now, pain medication of any sort is tainted with the ugly "hillbilly heroin" brush by the media and any politician looking for an "easy issue" to back.

Heaven forbid the "hillbilly heroin" should move from the trailer parks to comfortable upper middle class bedroom suburbs.

--------

Go back some decades and the same fears heavily criminalized MJ lest "reefer madness" make its way from city slums to comfortable, upper middle class communities.

The "evil weed" would destroy the social fabric of tidy neighborhoods with harrowing results. Why, the same fears were generally accepted for "race music" and hip-thrusting dancing at one time too.

--------

Now, the MJ "menace" is a harder sell given that even our most recent Presidents were forced to acknowledge partaking liberally. In fact, they even had to conced that they went one step beyond to the more pernicious "white powders" as we've learned.

So we needed a new "demon drug" and medications, some in use for decades, suddenly became "drugs".

What is especially angering about this press release is that there is zero mention of patients who suffer daily, from the moment they awaken until they try to catch some elusive sleep at night. Admittedly, they would have been an "inconvenient truth" to acknowledge.

It's not as easy as "going to see the Doctor" as so many have found out. Even the services that wish to offer the now requisite face-to-face consultations are hard pressed to find Physicians willing to take up the task of treating Chronic Pain patients.

It's astounding that the bureaucrat who crafted this into the CSA, "Dr. Leonhart", who holds only a B.S. in Criminal Justice, can exert such power over the practice of medicine and its subsequent impact on the lives of patients.

Sadly,

patient2all
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#878579 - 04/21/09 01:14 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: patient2all]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
I agree with patient2all. Also, this kid (teenager - Ryan Haight that ODed is now immortalized with this new act for his stupidity ). This reckless drug abuser knew what he was doing was wrong - and where was the parental supervision? - I do feel sorrow for their loss because it was tragic. I also feel they needed to change the way ROPs worked in the past. I remember in 2000, paying $65.00 with prescribeus.com, they asked for your condition and sent you email with the doctor's number to call at a certain time - never asked for any records. Yes, this was reckless on the ROP's part. And then there was all of the SARAN sites with only a questionnaire which was even easier for anyone without a verified medical need to obtain controlled substances (which in my opinion was the nail in the coffin for all of the legit ROPs - it was icing on the cake for the DEA to push legislation). Hopefully the DEA and the powers-to-be wont screw us over on the F2F consults. I hope we can all find adequate relief. Take care guys.

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#878596 - 04/21/09 01:40 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: tem33]
tigersmom Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5324
Loc: Reality
sigh...I know that LE reads this forum, so please understand "prying eyes" that our voice is every bit as important as Francine Haight's. The average age of a DBer is mid-40's we are tax payers, and most have families to support. We are only seeking relief. I am sorry that some teenagers have died from using legal (and illegal) drugs, but kids have died from alcohol abuse, playing sports, and even, in a few cases, from drinking too much water. Such tragedies happen, and I know this from personal experience. But To throw the baby out with the bath-water is NO solution, and the issue of chronic, untreated pain will only get worse as the boomers retire, so be prepared.

I can only hope that one day America will wake up and see what a mistake the DEA is making, and how the billions of dollars spent on "The War on Drugs" has done nothing but demonize pain patients, and gutted the 4th Amendment.
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#878638 - 04/21/09 03:12 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: tigersmom]
groupie Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 150
It's a feel good law, and will really do nothing except make 50 year old pain patients common criminals. Will put them in jail with Meth users. That sounds right. God bless America.

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#878644 - 04/21/09 03:29 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: groupie]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
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Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
 Originally Posted By: groupie
It's a feel good law, and will really do nothing except make 50 year old pain patients common criminals. Will put them in jail with Meth users. That sounds right. God bless America.


Looks to me like every site in our US list changed in the past few weeks... I would say the RHA is working pretty well on fear alone... wait till some news on enforcement are made public to see some more dramatic changes...
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#878646 - 04/21/09 03:31 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: groupie]
groupie Offline
Member

Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 150
I have read that in some states, people are using MJ to combat pain that is under treated by Dr.'s. California is selling it in stores. State law makes it legal, I guess that state law can outweigh Federal law in some situations.
Saw a documentary called Marijuana Inc., very interesting.

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#878664 - 04/21/09 04:18 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: tem33]
funkybreakz Offline
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Registered: 01/24/04
Posts: 2240
Loc: |20(|-|3||35|\/|6 1$ 6@`/
 Originally Posted By: tem33
Hopefully the DEA and the powers-to-be wont screw us over on the F2F consults. I hope we can all find adequate relief. Take care guys.


they already are. any compassionate docs will and are being investigated. my PM doc has been audited 3 times in the last 2 years by the powers that be... pretty soon we (CPr's) will have nothing to alleviate pain but OTC medication that does nothing for real pain. (but damage your organs)

they will be going after the docs that are seeing out of state patients next.

only on our deathbeds will we get adequate relief if it is left up to big bro.

things will only get worse. i have never used an OCS or online place and thought i was safe because i have a local PM doc that takes care of me. well, now i go into see him every month and am afraid he wont be there on my next appt. this is a witch hunt... and they are definitely out to burn people at the stake.


Edited by funkybreakz (04/21/09 04:27 PM)
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#878671 - 04/21/09 04:31 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: funkybreakz]
stevo1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2557
Loc: Top of The World!
 Originally Posted By: funkybreakz
 Originally Posted By: tem33
Hopefully the DEA and the powers-to-be wont screw us over on the F2F consults. I hope we can all find adequate relief. Take care guys.


they already are. any compassionate docs will and are being investigated. my PM doc has been audited 3 times in the last 2 years by the powers that be... pretty soon we (CPr's) will have nothing to alleviate pain but OTC medication that does nothing for real pain. (but damage your organs)

they will be going after the docs that are seeing out of state patients next.

only on our deathbeds will we get adequate relief if it is left up to big bro.


Sad But True!!!.....And the Media will Twist their Story's to Make the Legitimate Doc's and CP Patients Look like Common Criminals!!
Very Sad Stev0!
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#878703 - 04/21/09 05:54 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: stevo1]
genethebean1 Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 3315
Loc: The Boonies
That's why we've got to "take it to the streets". We need to put a face on CP! We need for society as a whole to understand who we are and what we have to go through just to find a bit of relief.

They need to see that we are regular people just like everyone else except we just happen to have the misfortune of having a medical condition that causes chronic pain that can't be alleviated with OTC meds or RX meds like celebrex, etc.

It almost seems like the powers-that-be want us to have to rely on the meds that will damage our organs - then we won't live as long and won't be a burden on the health care system.
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#878722 - 04/21/09 06:26 PM Re: New Rules Implement Ryan Haight Act [Re: genethebean1]
Khilee Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 1422
Loc: TN
 Originally Posted By: genethebean1
It almost seems like the powers-that-be want us to have to rely on the meds that will damage our organs - then we won't live as long and won't be a burden on the health care system.


You could be right about that genethebean. It sure does seem that way.
K

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#880244 - 04/24/09 07:41 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: patient2all]
zack1 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 24
Thank you very much patient2all/tem33 for your advice; I went ahead and had my direct script filled, and while I was very nervous, it went smoothly. But what I really want to thank you for is the much needed reminder that what I was doing was not wrong. I need medication for my medical issues, and I am not a criminal for needing these meds. My primary docs (GI, internist), while extremely capable and helpful, do not see the pain relief as a primary issue, and I'm a bit shy to press the issue, which is my fault. So I utilized telemedicine for this area of symptom relief. It seems that I will have to work on my reluctance to discuss this issue with my doctors, as now a valuable source of treatment is gone.
But thank you so much for your help, advice and encouragement; without it, I would not have gone forward to fill my prescription, and these nice spring days would have been much different. Very uncomfortable, and probably useless in the area of functioning well and getting things done.
I hope I can return the favor someday.

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#880263 - 04/24/09 08:34 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: zack1]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
Zack, thank you for the kind post. Thank you as well Patient2All.I am so happy that that you are able to have relief. It is really sad in this country when the DEA goes after the weakness and NEEDLESS targets. We, chronic pain patients pay our taxes, go to work , don't break the law, and all we ask for in return? Adequate relief---even if that the legal means to receive that relief is outrageous. OF course, the DEA would rather target pain patients and doctors because we don't wear bullet proof vests while doing drive by shootings and robbing liqour stores. You can cross 4 states with 10 pounds of cocaine in your truck and you dont even get a traffic ticket ---But god forbid you have a Rx bottle with your name on and 6 pills are missing out of 90ct bottle after 8 days!

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#881759 - 04/29/09 06:26 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tem33]
prototype Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 71
Loc: East Coast, US
Does anyone know what the federal sentencing guideline is now if someone is convicted of ordering/receiving a small amount of sched IV (e.g. say 60 xan or val) from an IOP? Does anyone know know anyone who has actually been prosecuted (I know people get LL's sometime) for small orders (less than 100 or so) - ? My state law seemed very clear (possesion of sched IV (no intent to distribute) was a less serious misdemenor than a DWI. Trying to read through the HRA and rest of the Federal Laws seems to require law degree , and I'm not even sure if that would help. It sounds like if I order 60 valium from an IOP and get prosecuted by the Feds it's a felony (as serious as a major fraud) and someone could spend some serious time in jail. But if Local LE catches you with them, little or nothing will happen.

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#881789 - 04/29/09 09:00 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: prototype]
tammy390 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 202
Loc: Florida
Maybe someone can answer this for me. If you have a direct script either from an ROP or a script from a local Dr., How would anyone know if you saw the Dr. F2F or not???

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#881803 - 04/29/09 10:31 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tammy390]
stevo1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2557
Loc: Top of The World!
 Originally Posted By: tammy390
Maybe someone can answer this for me. If you have a direct script either from an ROP or a script from a local Dr., How would anyone know if you saw the Dr. F2F or not???


Well when I had my F2F I had to sign in at the Office... so my signature is on their sign in Pad....That's Pretty Good Proof!...Other then that if the Pharmacist calls the Doc and Asks I guess they have to take their word for it!
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#881903 - 04/29/09 02:29 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: stevo1]
Littlefoot Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 306
Loc: The Great Valley
Ok, So I have a question. If you order something such as, Tramadol, Soma, etc..., how do the delivery people know if it is scheduled or not? Yes, I know they know it comes from a pharmacy, but so do my natural supplements, which my doctor told me to order off the internet, because they are cheaper than GNC. So, I`m just wondering, if you were to receive something other than hydro, etc, how do they know if it is a controlled substance? And by the way, yes I do have to sing for by B vitamins.
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#881907 - 04/29/09 02:48 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Littlefoot]
stevo1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2557
Loc: Top of The World!
 Originally Posted By: Littlefoot
Ok, So I have a question. If you order something such as, tramadol, soma, etc..., how do the delivery people know if it is scheduled or not? Yes, I know they know it comes from a pharmacy, but so do my natural supplements, which my doctor told me to order off the internet, because they are cheaper than GNC. So, I`m just wondering, if you were to receive something other than hydro, etc, how do they know if it is a controlled substance? And by the way, yes I do have to sing for by B vitamins.


I don't think they do know what is in the box or bag/ envelope
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#881928 - 04/29/09 03:33 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: stevo1]
Littlefoot Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 306
Loc: The Great Valley
So, basically, unless LE contacts the delivery company/person, they won`t actually know the details of what is inside the package, right?
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#881930 - 04/29/09 03:39 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Littlefoot]
stevo1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2557
Loc: Top of The World!
Unless you are getting a delivery every day from a Pharmacy ...I really don't think The Delivery service Cares!
The Problem is if you are getting Controlled meds from a Pharmacy and did not have a F2F ...When the Pharm or the Doc gets Popped(and they will ...Sooner or Later) your Info will be in the Hands of the DEA....And the RHA has put specific Punishments/ Jail time and Fines on the Doc... The Pharm...The Receiver...And anyone else that helped you get your Meds! Like an Online Referral Service!!
Or Possibly even a Discussion Board! \:o


Edited by stevo1 (04/29/09 03:44 PM)
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#881944 - 04/29/09 04:09 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: stevo1]
Littlefoot Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 306
Loc: The Great Valley
Ok, last question. Most people on here have been using OCS for quite sometime. How far back are they going to go? Yep, this could get ugly, for a lot of people. Good Luck to all!
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#881948 - 04/29/09 04:16 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Littlefoot]
stevo1 Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 2557
Loc: Top of The World!
The way I see it is that RHA Pertains to anything after the 13th of April...Prior to that I would think you would be OK ....But then again the DEA seems to do whatever they want...So No one knows for sure!
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#881975 - 04/29/09 05:08 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: stevo1]
Littlefoot Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 306
Loc: The Great Valley
Very true, they do do pretty much what they want. Maybe I`m just over looking it(there`s alot to read thru) But I`m not finding anything about the receiver. I`ve seen a couple of people ask on this thread about the receiver of a package, but I`m not seeing it, but I could be overlooking it.Oh well, guess we`ll all be in the same boat soon, in pain and wondering if there`s going to be a knock on the door.
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#882311 - 04/30/09 02:50 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: stevo1]
honeybunny21 Offline
Member

Registered: 04/16/08
Posts: 182
 Originally Posted By: stevo1
Unless you are getting a delivery every day from a Pharmacy ...I really don't think The Delivery service Cares!
The Problem is if you are getting Controlled meds from a Pharmacy and did not have a F2F ...When the Pharm or the Doc gets Popped(and they will ...Sooner or Later) your Info will be in the Hands of the DEA....And the RHA has put specific Punishments/ Jail time and Fines on the Doc... The Pharm...The Receiver...And anyone else that helped you get your Meds! Like an Online Referral Service!!
Or Possibly even a Discussion Board! \:o


Thanks for this information. Since DB.com used to be a forum about how to use telemedicine to find a doctor for pain management (among other conditions), I think a lot of us are interested in the specific penalties built into the RHA for receivers. I cannot find that information in the Act, and I have read it. Can you please link to the specific receiver penalties you are referencing?

THANKS!!!!!

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#882315 - 04/30/09 03:05 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: honeybunny21]
Littlefoot Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 306
Loc: The Great Valley
I`ve read it too, and all I saw was the pharmacy, the method of delivery, and the person running the website. So, I`m curious too.
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#882442 - 04/30/09 08:18 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Littlefoot]
prototype Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/23/03
Posts: 71
Loc: East Coast, US
I read through RHA quickly and didn't notice anything specific to receivers. Probably like any new "murky" federal legislation we are going to have to wait until the federal govt prosecutes some cases, probably pushing the limits of what could be interpreted from the RHA, and then courts, then appeals courts...establish rulings/interpretations on what the laws really mean. If I'm not mistaken, legislative bodies at the state and federal level have passed laws in the past that were eventually declared unconstitutional by the courts. Although I doubt this will be the case with RHA.

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#882448 - 04/30/09 08:38 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: prototype]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
The RHA is an amendment to the CSA to deal with online pharmacies... so the whole act deals with online pharmacies...
The penalties for buyers remain the same as before... the act just makes it clear that ordering any controlled substance without seeing the doctor in person is a crime...

From the info at: RHA
This is an explanation and not the actual text. It is about IOP's

 Quote:
Consumers should also be wary of
rogue Web sites falsely claiming that
they are allowed to sell controlled
substances without complying with the
Ryan Haight Act because they are
located outside the United States. Any
such claim is flatly wrong. In fact, as
explained earlier in this preamble, it has
always been unlawful under the
Controlled Substances Import and
Export Act (CSIEA) (even prior to the
Ryan Haight Act) to ship controlled
substances into the United States for
personal medical use. Any person who
ships controlled substances from abroad
into the United States illegally, along
with the person in the United States
who places the order for such a
shipment and thereby causes the
controlled substances to be illegally
shipped into the United States, violates
the CSIEA and is subject to criminal
prosecution
.49


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#882561 - 05/01/09 06:34 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
Littlefoot Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 306
Loc: The Great Valley
But that says "abroad" I`m still wondering about within the US. Anybody know?
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#884956 - 05/08/09 02:40 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
CA_Sunshine Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/20/08
Posts: 8
The RHA says that any person who operates a Web site that fits within the definition of an ‘‘online pharmacy’’ must first obtain a specific DEA registration to operate the website.

Wouldn't that make all of the companies on this website illegal? Because they are all online pharmacies as defined by the RHA and have not obtained the requisite DEA registration.

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#885102 - 05/08/09 08:51 PM Re: New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies [Re: cuddles17981]
patient2all Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
 Quote:
for information on how to submit written or electronic comments about them within the 60-day comment period, go to http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov.


Thank you, Cuddles.

Of course, deadiversion.usdoj.gov doesn't exactly make it easy to figure out where to post the comments. It's also unusual for the 60 day comment period to begin after the implementation of a law. Suggests this law was rushed out with little forethought....

------

However to zero in on where we can make our actual comments, goto http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=0900006480944156 and click the link at the top that says: "Docket DEA-2009-0004"

I'm not that stupid, but it took me some time to figure this out. Now I will work on what I hope to be a powerful comment. We should all do the same!

Come on, we have a big voice! It may not count in the end, but we've got to try. The promise of telemedicine mustn't die because of the ancient foolhardiness of a "raver" from a well-to-do family. That bunch will not feel any effects from this law -- they've always got their connections. It's the poor, underserved and truly ill folks who I see suffering...

My only suggestion would be to not malign the memory of the young adult who this law was inappropriately named after. Let's stick to describing the devastating effects this law has had on our own individual quality of life.

It is not true that anyone suffering Chronic Pain or anxiety disorders will find treatment in their local area. I've met far more charlatans in local Pain Management facilities than I ever found in those few quality OCS's that I used over the years.

One reason "distance prescribing" found such a market among suffering Chronic Pain patients is because of the very real shortage of local Doctors willing to even talk to anyone who complain of Chronic Pain.

Rightfully or wrongly, far too many Doctors shun us for real or imagined liability concerns. Instead, a few brave Doctors, few and far between had the guts to show compassion to the millions of us suffering out there in quiet desperation.

Contrary to popular belief, the best OCS Doctors hardly made a fortune in their work. Yes, there were 45 second conslts by "physician's assistants", but there were also OCS Doctors who spent 45+ minutes consulting at some of the services. I know for a fact that those Doctors were not buying multiple yachts with their relatively meager consult fees.

The two OCS Doctors that I dealt with over the years stated respectively, "I truly feel for those suffering in pain" and "I'm pretty good at discerning abusers even over the phone. i believe I'm right 99% of the time. If I let one abuser get over on me, I've still helped 99 people who were truly in need. That's a chance I'm willing to take."

The latter Doctor I quoted has now decided to devoting all his time to treating the most neglected "street people" instead of continuing with F2F. How dare he! ;\) Before he used to only spend evenings trying to bring the most downtrodden homeless people into the health care system. The first Doctor I cited is a 9/11 First Responder among possessing other esteemed credentials.

Both Doctors had impeccable credentials and weren't trying to pay of gambling debts or anything like that. They truly believed in the promise of Telemedicine.

Still, the bad ones ruined it for all -- as many have noted, the "baby was thrown out with the bathwater".

It would be good for Admin to make the comment link more prominent on our site. Like many members here, I don't always get time to work my way through all the posts -- especially those that are further down in the forum list.

-------

Telemedicine had promise and outside of this venue, we scarcely heard a word about it. Regulation was the answer. However, that was too unpopular a viewpoint for politicians to "risk" stating.

patient2all
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#885104 - 05/08/09 08:54 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: CA_Sunshine]
53chevy Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 10/04/07
Posts: 302
well then wouldn't that also make this discussion board as responsible as any " facilitator " and then by that logic this website in and of it self after april 13,2009 is illegal .

pray tell is there ant such thing as common sense any where in the world today , or has that been made illegal also,. !!!!!!!!!!!!

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#885107 - 05/08/09 09:04 PM Re: New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies [Re: patient2all]
danegal Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 01/05/09
Posts: 87
Loc: rural farm
Thank you for making an intelligent, coherent and completely truthful statement. I could not have said or written it better myself. If you ever run for office, I will be more than happy and willing to suffort, better yet stuff envelopes for you!!!! Thank you!

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#885211 - 05/09/09 08:45 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: CA_Sunshine]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
 Originally Posted By: CA_Sunshine
The RHA says that any person who operates a Web site that fits within the definition of an ‘‘online pharmacy’’ must first obtain a specific DEA registration to operate the website.

Wouldn't that make all of the companies on this website illegal? Because they are all online pharmacies as defined by the RHA and have not obtained the requisite DEA registration.


Please lets not put every site ever discussed on our site on the same bucket. Not all, not all, some seem to comply, some are not in USA, and some do not even offer controlled substances...

But you are right. Many of the most popular may have been re defined as online pharmacies by the RHA and the particuilars can be discussed in the threads decicated to specific vendor.
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#885227 - 05/09/09 09:56 AM Re: New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies [Re: patient2all]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
 Originally Posted By: patient2all
 Quote:
for information on how to submit written or electronic comments about them within the 60-day comment period, go to http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov.


Thank you, Cuddles.

Of course, deadiversion.usdoj.gov doesn't exactly make it easy to figure out where to post the comments. It's also unusual for the 60 day comment period to begin after the implementation of a law. Suggests this law was rushed out with little forethought....

------

However to zero in on where we can make our actual comments, goto http://www.regulations.gov/fdmspublic/component/main?main=DocumentDetail&o=0900006480944156 and click the link at the top that says: "Docket DEA-2009-0004"

I'm not that stupid, but it took me some time to figure this out. Now I will work on what I hope to be a powerful comment. We should all do the same!



I must be really stupid because I can not figure out how to post a comment or how the read the few comments posted
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#885270 - 05/09/09 12:55 PM Re: New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies [Re: Administrator]
patient2all Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
 Quote:
I must be really stupid because I can not figure out how to post a comment or how the read the few comments posted


No, we're not stupid. The programmers who work for the government sets up stupid sites. It's not like they have to answer to anybody about the quality of their work. Free blogs function better than this!

First there are only 2 comments. One person was understandbly confused and posted the same thing twice. The first entry was just a re-stating of the law itself.
-------------------------------

Reminds me of passport renewal "Online". I sent the docs in and the State Dept website says allow 5-7 days to see your status. Never saw anything. They warn you not to call them until it's less than 2 weeks before you need the passport if you don't see "online progress". Finally when I called they told me that the "Online Status" hasn't worked for ages and you'll never see anything there. It's called "government work".

--------

Thanks for the kind words, Danegal! Now make sure I actually do something besides talk

--------

See below for an "explanation about comments"


Attachments
docket.jpg

Description: With any luck you got here, click next to "Docket: "

comments.jpg

Description: Second you are looking at a list of comments. Click the link like: DEA-2009-0004-0002 and then scroll around the following page and you should be able to read the comment. I've noticed that if you move around the site too much, it often takes a second


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#885271 - 05/09/09 12:57 PM Re: New Rules Governing Internet Pharmacies [Re: patient2all]
patient2all Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
The File Upload didn't tell me I ran out of my 255 characters, so here is what the second picture should have had as a caption:

Second you are looking at a list of comments. Click the link like: DEA-2009-0004-0002 and then scroll around the following page and you should be able to read the comment.

I've noticed that if you move around the site too much, it often takes a second or third click to follow any link. Sometimes it stops functioning entirely.

As far as adding a comment, that part isn't clear. There is a little icon to the far right of each comment. However I don't know if that creates a new comment or if you will be commenting on an existing comment. Someone go first ;\)



----------------------------

I think it's meant to be confusing....

patient2all
_________________________
I'll be back...

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#885846 - 05/11/09 05:25 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
CA_Sunshine Offline
Stranger

Registered: 10/20/08
Posts: 8
sorry admin, i stand corrected. i was only speaking about the OSC's on the US List. The way I read the RHA and interim regs is that a US OSC needs to be registered AND have the disclosures on their website(s). The telemedicine Rules and regs do not apply to to US OCS's.

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#893243 - 06/06/09 10:44 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: CA_Sunshine]
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
From the www.rxpri.com site:
Quote:



RXPri is no longer offering consultations services, and we are permanently closing business.

RXPri Management


From the www.southwestmedicalgroup.com site
Quote:
Web Site Currently Unavailable

April 28th, 2009

Due to recent changes in Federal Law and the enactment of the Ryan Haight Online Consumer Protection Act of 2008-2009 Southwest Medical Group's Web site is no longer an active Internet Web Site. If you are an existing member of our network you may contact us at 1-866-347-7492.

Thank you,

Southwest Medical Group, LLC.
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#893959 - 06/08/09 11:29 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: Administrator]
patient2all Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
I'm ashamed of myself. smack

Somehow I got it in my head that the comment period for Docket DEA-2009-0004 ran until 6/13/09 or 6/15/09.

It was 6/5/09

I missed it.

I owed it to my wife to finish working on an expansive website that would bring in money -- something I haven't been too good at lately.

So I rationalized to myself that as soon as I had that site up and running, a concise, but powerful comment would be posted. I also wanted to update a site that would direct people to the regulations.gov site so more of us could be heard.

Skrewed up.

Feel like the public perception will continue to hold that us "drug customers" went scurrying underground and had no real point to make.

Would it have made a difference?

We'll never know.

We know we're the Chronic Pain Community but how many others do?

------

Right now the media is speaking to people in the "BDSM Community" about David Carridine's death and how it could have been avoided through "safe practice".

I won't judge the BDSM folks, but really! They chose that life and get to live it freely and unencumbered. We didn't ask for any of what befell us.

So BDSM is a bonafide "community" and reporting of their lifestyle now must follow the politically correct journalistic manner of style and we're still just "druggies" in too many eyes.

Anybody got some "Hillbilly Heroin"? frown

------------------

I'm worst at what I do best.

Sorry!

patient2all
_________________________
I'll be back...

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#919240 - 08/18/09 05:27 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: patient2all]
sf_280Hwy Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Cali
i read the Wall Street Journal every day and i only remember hearing about this proposed legislation in the fall of 2008, nothing since except for what i just read in this thread tonight. the law being on the books is one thing, and i have to say i knew it would happen sooner or later - somebody orders stuff online and dies accidentally. the family has no where to go but use their anger and disgust to try and make it harder for this to happen again. all well and good. but if some kid is smart enough, they will find a way to get what they want, somehow. it remains to be seen how much effort is devoted to enforcement of the law. does this mean any controlled substance, that being schedule 2, schedule 3, schedule 4 and schedule 5 is off limits? i know that Schedule 1 drugs are things like Ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, LSD, and maybe marijuana in some states that don't have medical pot statutes (street drugs have no medical value, even for research purposes). i was hoping to purchase Cymbalta for my depression but now i don't know...i am pretty sure it's a schedule 4 antidepressant. i know diversion is a problem, but i would never condone it. i just feel terrible for folks with chronic pain, migraines, and the like who have used up all their options and can only afford canadian or other int'l pharmacies.
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"transition transmission...oh my TVC-15, oh oh, TVC-15"...david bowie, station to station LP

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#921973 - 08/26/09 07:54 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: sf_280Hwy]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
[quote=sf_280Hwy]i read the Wall Street Journal every day and i only remember hearing about this proposed legislation in the fall of 2008, nothing since except for what i just read in this thread tonight. the law being on the books is one thing, and i have to say i knew it would happen sooner or later - somebody orders stuff online and dies accidentally. the family has no where to go but use their anger and disgust to try and make it harder for this to happen again. all well and good. but if some kid is smart enough, they will find a way to get what they want, somehow. it remains to be seen how much effort is devoted to enforcement of the law. does this mean any controlled substance, that being schedule 2, schedule 3, schedule 4 and schedule 5 is off limits? i know that Schedule 1 drugs are things like Ecstasy, heroin, cocaine, LSD, and maybe marijuana in some states that don't have medical pot statutes (street drugs have no medical value, even for research purposes). i was hoping to purchase Cymbalta for my depression but now i don't know...i am pretty sure it's a schedule 4 antidepressant. i know diversion is a problem, but i would never condone it. i just feel terrible for folks with chronic pain, migraines, and the like who have used up all their options and can only afford canadian or other int'l pharmacies. [/quote


Actually, cocaine is not a schedule I, it is a schedule to II. Pharmaceutical cocaine is a green liquid that is used for tracheotomy patients to control the bleeding around the trach site as it is a potent vasoconstrictor. It is used primary in neonatal units in the hospital. Also, Cymbalta is not scheduled.

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#921987 - 08/26/09 08:44 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tem33]
OldandWorn Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 8650
Loc: LoFi Pool Hall, 12th & Vine
welldone Thanks for showing up.
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Stop the cause of rainbows! Save our planet.


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#923169 - 08/29/09 04:57 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: OldandWorn]
sf_280Hwy Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Cali
hey oldandworn and tem33

i think we need to start writing letters to the president,
bring it to his attention. i would like to know his stance
on this legislation, especially with all the crazy stuff
going on in the town hall meetings dealing with the health care debate.

i for one don't want to play russian roulette with the international online pharmacies. but i know that a lot of seniors and disabled folks order certain drugs on line cuz they are a lot cheaper abroad, say things like lipitor,
cialis, cymbalta and other such drugs.

i don't want to wait to hear about everyday innocent people being tossed in prison for us to get motivated enough to start bitchin' about it. know what i mean?


Edited by sf_280Hwy (08/29/09 04:59 AM)
Edit Reason: my brain is on fire

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#924710 - 09/02/09 08:56 AM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: sf_280Hwy]
WatchTower2010 Offline
Banned. Soliciting med sales. Using our PM's to solicit med sales
Journeyman

Registered: 10/30/08
Posts: 64
Loc: Mountains
Cymbalta will make you go broke!!! Most all insurances wont even cover Cymbalta..
_________________________
"Dreams Are Lies, It's The Dreaming Thats Real"

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#927199 - 09/08/09 04:50 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: WatchTower2010]
tem33 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
try 30ct 2mg lunesta ----$200.00 freaggin dollars. And the gov wonders why we buy online!

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#929669 - 09/14/09 04:55 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: tem33]
sf_280Hwy Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/24/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Cali
i tried lunesta once and it didn't work. it just left a nasty taste in my mouth the next day. i wonder if rozeram works, although it's probably price prohibitive. don't think i have seen anybody selling it but then again i haven't been looking for that in particular!
_________________________
"transition transmission...oh my TVC-15, oh oh, TVC-15"...david bowie, station to station LP

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#929687 - 09/14/09 05:17 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: sf_280Hwy]
sonik Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 269
Isn't Rozarem just a very high dose of Melatonin? Or some derivitive if Melatonin.
_________________________
NOW is the only thing that is real...

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#929695 - 09/14/09 05:30 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: sonik]
martind Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 1863
It is Rozerem and no, it is not just a high dose of melatonin.
It does, however, bind to melatonin receptors in the brain unlike typical sleeping medications that have an affinity for GABA receptors.
Supposedly, this avoids the complications of tolerance, addiction and rebound insomnia.

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#929697 - 09/14/09 05:33 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: sonik]
nephro Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 9709
Loc: NOT 40!
It activates melatonin receptors, but isn't melatonin itself, in a sense like how benzodiazepines activate GABA receptors, but are not actually GABA.

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#934634 - 09/24/09 07:31 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: nephro]
sonik Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 269
Does anyone have any feed back on if it works well or not? Rozerem..?
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NOW is the only thing that is real...

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#934915 - 09/25/09 12:59 PM Re: Implementation and explanation of the Ryan Haight Act as per the DOJ and DEA [Re: sonik]
martind Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 1863
In my experience, it works very well for some patients.
You would need to have it prescribed to you and give it a trial in order to see if it works well for your condition.
Other people's opinions might be interesting but not really indicative of your chances for positive results.

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