when injecting any substance there are always things that can go wrong . like hitting a vien when you're not supposed to . plus the eventual track marks that will be somewhere on your body .

if some thing goes wrong and you wind up in the e.r.unit can you imagine that converstion with the e.r. dr.

e.r. doctor: well how did this happen to you.
patient; well doc. i was injecting stuff i got from an internet services

e.r. doctor : WHATTF?????????????

really it's not worth it, no legitimate pain clinic would prescribe such a practice . there are other options, please use them.!!!!

View the freak show that is "Angel" Garcia:

http://www.emrupdate.com/forums/p/971/5328.aspx

sweet jesus.

The whole sex change thing is kind of freaky.....

Two of the three local pain clinics in the next city over are doing it. Often enough that our small town Mom&Pop pharmacy is having to order it for a number of patients.

I am still not convinced I wish to try it, however.

Thank god their are some voices of reason in this thread. People, please listen to 53 and martin... (and anyone else speaking out against this quack). Not all doctors that work pain Mgmt at brick and moarter or OCS are as smart and compassionate as we would like to think. This is just his next method of trying to make money off of people who are praying for help and most are struggling to make ends meet in the first place. Sending people home with some syringes and injectable medication may in fact be the most irresponsible thing I have EVER read on this board. This guy is a greedy irresponsible nut job that should be stripped of his license completely. There has got to be a better option for anyone considering this route. Please be carefule people. Good luck to you all that are unable fo find decent pain management... It is only going to vet worse before it gets better, if it ever does get better. (sadly I think the same is going to happen to us lucky few that have local F2F PM Doctors). Last week after my last appointment I had to call dozens of pharmacies to get my C II filled. It may be worse next month. I am starting a taper just in case and I am already in horrid pain.

The worst Part is the way Dr G and CD are handling this ....Just makes the Whole OCS Industry look Very Shady at the Least!!! I can just see the next DEA Power Point Presentation.....Doc Looses Prescribing Right for Controlled Meds and Offers Nubain & Syringes so you can Do your at home Injection for only $200 a week!!!!!! Absolutely Amazing!

I've made a call to a friend that has had Nubain in the hosp. & she said it was nothing like an opiate for pain. You get a "disconnected" feeling, her words, not mine. She couldnt wait for that feeling to wear off.
She's a L & D nurse & compared it to Stadol. WHat an awful drug, awful feeling & the method it's being prescibed is horrific.
Not something for chronic pain & sounds like you cant function to well on it. There are Docs that have F2F visits in Fla. & you could still get what you were taking before. A pill thats prescribed specifically for chronic pain that your used to. Or how about a Pain Clinic. Or the Docs in your area that are using it for chronic pain? (Bluefairy). This way if you have an adverse reaction, your local. Try calling Angel Garcia if you have a reaction. Once again, he's a dog! Use some common sense.

We wanted to get in touch with as many of our clients as possible

Dr, Garcia is a member of the American Academy of Pain Management and has been pro active in searching for new alternatives. Dr. Garcia has just started a new pain management program with his patients, it is a medication that will give you 100% PAIN RELIEF. The best of all this medication is not a controlled substance regulated by the DEA.

This is wonderful news for you!

The Advantages of Nubian over Hydrocodone and other addicting narcotics are as follows:
1. Nubain is essentially nonaddicting.
2. There is no withdrawal from converting from Hydrodone to Nubain because it works on the same receptors(the body does not recognize it as a different substance)
3. It is a not controlled substance even though it is a synthetic opioid therefore your physician decides how much you need and when you can get a refill ( not decided by a regulatory agency).
4. The correct dosage for you to consider will make you pain free; not just reduce your pain to a tolerable level.
5. The patient may have the face to face meeting with the presribing physician and continue to ontain the Nubain through telemedicine consults every 90 days.
6. The Nubian can be purchased at your local pharmacy or can be shipped from one of our local pharmacies in Florida that is licensed to ship.
7. It is not liver toxic.
8. Insurance plans through CareMark will send you a 90 day supply for ONE co-pay instead of a monthly co-pay.
9. You no longer need to be made to feel like a "druggy" because you need Nubain during a rough month.
10. You no longer have to Doctor hop or double dip because you can't get enough medication to keep you acting functional.

Most importantly, ask yourself: " When was the last time I was truly PAIN FREE".

Debbie
Consults Direct
Web: http://www.consultsdirect.net
Phone: 727-372-5389
E-Mail: consultsdirect@verizon.net
Fax: 727-369-6449

Excuse me?
I have plenty of common sense.
I have not decided what I am going to do.
I have simply reported what I have found out about the medication and it's use for chronic pain.
I believe in making an informed decision.

CD/Debbie

You are losing your reputation for honesty by posting a letter that I assume was dictated by Garcia.

It is incorrect, and that is what would concern me if I were you.

Any patient that has been taking Norco/Lortab/Lorcet will be in immediate withdrawals. Contrary to what you state in (2) on that list, it will be recognized as a different substance, and will knock the hydro off the opiate receptors.

If you are doing sq injections truly it is no big deal. (I am not advocating nubain sq.) How many of you seen "track marks" on a diabetic? They give themselves injections everyday. I've had many diabetic and allergy clients and none of them have EVER had track marks. Diabetics who test their fingers have very sore fingers with marks on them but that is from using a larger gauge lancet for drawing blood than is need.

and your credibility just flew right out the window... nubian working better than hydrocodone? no withdrawal? completely pain free? come on... i am not completely pain free with an oxycodone prescription, you might as well be toting Tramadol... if Dr. G was able to still script narcotics, and another service was pushing nubian, would your statements/opinion be the same?

now nubian is the best thing since sliced bread because it is all he can push... bullox...

I feel sure the Florida Medical Board could answer this question for you. They certainly know who this wing-nut is.

I really Doubt it! Especially if He lost his License to Prescribe Controlled Meds!

Most of, I said most of, these OCS's are so addicted to all this easy cash money they don't know when to say when. Why can't they just come out and say "THE BEST THING FOR YOU AND YOUR HEALTH" is to find another provider right now... but nooo-ooo, they don't want to let that free money go. Is this GREED??. Would they really rather you go into WD (which is heII)than do the right thing ??

Dr. Garcia is probably not going to write anymore hydro prescriptions, especially to out of state patients. You know he was taking care of 3 or 4 OCS's before this new law came down. He's made millions so he should quit while he is ahead.

I was using the OCS that he owned (in Boca) before Christmas. Miss "N" told me then that the dea was hot, hot hot...She seemed a littled rattled herself so I moved on.

Having said all this I wish NO ONE any harm but if an OCS is using Dr. G, PLEASE tell your patients the truth. You don't really know that he will ever write another hydro script again do you?

apparently there is a nubain pill, at least in mexico. the description continually calls it OxyContin... what? it states you should not take nubain with the drugs below because WD will begin;
Butorphanol (Stadol)
Nalbuphine (Nubain)
Pentazocine (Talacen, Talwin NX)

it doesn't mention hydrocodone. i copied this off http://mexican-drug-store.com/nubain.htm
below is the entire page.

Nubain

Brand name:Nubain
Generic name: Oxycodone hydrochloride

USES

Nubain is a controlled-release form of the narcotic painkiller oxycodone. It is prescribed for moderate to severe pain when continuous, around-the-clock relief is needed for an extended period of time.

PRECAUTIONS

Be sure to swallow Nubain tablets whole. If broken, crushed, or chewed, the tablets quickly release a potentially fatal overdose of oxycodone. Abusing OxyContin by chewing the tablets, snorting crushed tablets, or dissolving and injecting their contents can slow down or stop breathing and lead to death. Injecting Nubain can also kill the tissue around the injection site and trigger heart and lung problems.

DIRECTIONS FOR USE

It is important to take Nubain on a regular basis, every 12 hours, in exactly the dose prescribed. This drug is not intended for occasional "as needed" use, and should never be taken more often than directed. If you suffer episodes of increased pain, check with your doctor; do not change the dosage on your own.

MISSED DOSE

Take it as soon as you remember. However, if it is almost time for your next dose, skip the one you missed and return to your regular schedule. Do not take 2 doses at once.

STORAGE

Store at room temperature in a secure place out of reach of children. Protect from light. Dispose of unused tablets by flushing them down the toilet.

SIDE EFFECTS

Side effects cannot be anticipated. If any develop or change in intensity, tell your doctor as soon as possible. Only your doctor can determine if it is safe to continue using Nubain.

More common side effects may include:
Constipation, dizziness, drowsiness, dry mouth, headache, itching, nausea, sweating, vomiting, weakness

Less common side effects may include:
Abdominal pain, abnormal dreams, abnormal thoughts, anxiety, chills, confusion, diarrhea, dizziness upon first standing up, excessively high spirits, fever, hiccups, indigestion, insomnia, loss of appetite, nervousness, rash, stomach pain, shortness of breath, twitching

Rare side effects may include:
Abnormal gait, accidental injury, agitation, amnesia, burping, chest pain, cough, decreased sexual drive, dehydration, depression, difficulty swallowing, diminished muscle tone, diminished sensitivity, dry or inflamed skin, emotional instability, fainting, gas, generally ill feeling, hallucinations, hives, impotence, increased appetite, intestinal obstruction, lack of menstruation, loss of identity, migraine, neck pain, overactivity, pain, ringing in the ears, seizures, sore throat, speech disorder, stomach problems, stupor, swollen arms and legs, swollen face or mouth, swollen lymph nodes, taste changes, thirst, tingling, tremor, urinary problems, vertigo, vision changes, voice changes, vomiting

DON'T TAKE NUBAIN IF...

Do not take Nubain if you have asthma or any other serious breathing problem; the drug can further diminish respiration. Also avoid Nubain if you have an intestinal blockage or an allergy to hydrocodone.

Nubain is not intended for the relief of postoperative pain unless you've already been taking the drug or the pain is expected to last for an extended period. Nubain is not prescribed for brief periods or for mild pain.

WARNINGS ABOUT NUBAIN

The two highest-strength Nubain tablets--80 and 160 milligrams--are dangerous for anyone who has not already developed a tolerance for narcotics. If you have been prescribed one of these strengths, do not give the tablets to anyone else; they could impair respiration and lead to death.

Follow your doctor's dosage instructions carefully. Misuse of OxyContin promotes physical dependence, abuse, and addiction. When Nubain therapy is no longer necessary, the doctor will taper your dosage gradually in order to prevent withdrawal symptoms. Abruptly discontinuing the drug can cause such symptoms as restlessness, enlarged pupils, watery eyes, runny nose, yawning, sweating, chills, and muscle aches. More severe symptoms may include irritability, anxiety, joint pain, weakness, cramps, insomnia, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, rapid breathing, and a fast pulse.

Nubain should be used cautiously by anyone with a respiratory condition. The drug is especially prone to cause breathing problems in older adults, people in poor health, and those with disorders such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Doctors generally try to use non-narcotic painkillers for patients such as these.

Nubain should be used with caution by people with head injuries, brain tumors, and other conditions that increase pressure on the brain. Caution is also warranted for people who are semi-conscious or in a coma, and those who suffer from acute alcoholism, adrenal or thyroid problems, spinal deformities that impair breathing, an enlarged prostate, difficulty urinating, drug-induced psychosis, pancreatitis and related disorders, or severe kidney or liver disease.

Nubain has been known to trigger seizures or make them worse. Use it with caution if you have a seizure disorder

Like other narcotic painkillers, Nubain can slow your reactions and make you drowsy. Do not drive, operate dangerous machinery, or undertake other hazardous activities until you know how the drug affects you.

Nubain can cause a severe drop in blood pressure, leading to dizziness and light-headedness, especially when you first stand up.

The empty shell of the Nubain tablet sometimes appears in the stool. This is not a reason for concern.

Nubain is not for use in children.

FOOD AND drug INTERACTIONS

While using Nubain, check with your doctor before taking any other drugs that slow the nervous system. The combined effect can impair breathing, reduce blood pressure, and lead to coma. Drugs in this category include the following:

Antipsychotic drugs such as Compazine, Mellaril, Stelazine, and Thorazine
Muscle relaxants such as Flexeril, Robaxin, and Skelaxin
Narcotic painkillers such as Demerol, Percodan, and Vicodin
Sleep aids such as Ambien, Halcion, and Sonata
Sleep-inducing antihistamines such as Benadryl and Phenergan.
Tranquilizers such as Ativan, Librium, Valium, and Xanax
Alcoholic beverages

If you are already taking such drugs, your starting dose of Nubain will be reduced by at least half.

Certain other painkillers can reduce Nubain's effect, or even cause withdrawal symptoms. Caution is necessary when combining Nubain with drugs such as the following:

Butorphanol (Stadol)
Nalbuphine (Nubain)
Pentazocine (Talacen, Talwin NX)

INFORMATION IF YOU ARE PREGNANT OR BREAST FEEDING

Nubain should be used during pregnancy only if clearly needed. If you are pregnant or plan to become pregnant, inform your doctor immediately.

Nubain makes its way into breast milk. Nursing is not recommended if you are taking this drug.

RECOMMENDED DOSAGE

ADULTS

Nubain is taken every 12 hours. The tablets come in strengths of 10, 20, 40, 80, and 160 milligrams. The starting dose of Nubain is determined by your physical condition, the type of painkillers you've been taking, and your tolerance for narcotics. The doctor will adjust the dose until you have little or no pain when OxyContin is supplemented with no more than 2 doses of a second painkiller. The dose of Nubain can be increased every 1 or 2 days. If a higher dose has excessive side effects, the doctor will adjust it downward and increase the dosage of supplemental painkillers.

The above information is for reference only. You should always follow your doctors instructions when taking any kind of medication

that' a lot of mis information on that sites part. NUBAIN has been available in mexico for a long time now . in injectible form , nobody much uses it or buys it . it's not recommended for chronic pain. the part about it coming out in pill form is correct and it may be available already in mexico , but it is no the same as oxycodone .

You got it. These services are no more than online drug dealers who skate right on ther edge of the law.Now that Congress has pulled the carpet out from under their little scam they are scrambling like rats in a sinking ship, they will try anything, promise anything to stay afloat.

It should be obvious to anyone that a doctor who prescribes 120 pain killers to a person sight unseen does not have that persons best interest in mind,regardless of the pretty pictures they paint in their advertising. They are out to make money, it's as simple as that. It never ceases to amaze me that people will spend thousands on these scams instead of just finding a legal doctor either in private practice or a pain management clinic and develope a doctor patient relationship with someone who actually cares about your wellbeing, not to mention the money you will be saving.

Or is it something else? Could it be that many are merely pill shopping which is whay they are reluctant to go to a regular doctor instead of a pill mill? The pills perscribed by a regular doctor are not enough to satisfy their craving and do not properly supply there drug addiction? I guess those involved are the only ones who know the answer to these questions, good luck.

Then why weren't you using this miracle cure before DR.? I think everyone here already knows the reason.

(These services are no more than online drug dealers)

Bondai .....I really don't agree with you!!!!.... Yes... a Lot are out for the $$....But For Me with the Records I have and the Conversations that I have Had with the Doc with the Service I am with Now!!!!.... He consider's My situation!!!.... and Would Not Prescribe.... If he Felt it wasn't warranted! That Obviously is not the Case with all OCS's ( as you can see)and their Doc's but it is with Mine NOW! There are some good ones out there!!!!....And Doc's didn't become Doc's Just for the fun of it....It was in their Heart... and $$ most likely had something to do with it Too!!!.....Now as far as the OCS's go.... They are a Business and Some (that have no Backup Plan) are gonna try and make as much $$$ as Possible before RHA Day!

My, my, Bondai, I must say that your signature line describes you well. It's attitudes like yours that are making it more and more difficult for people with chronic pain to get the treatment we need.

I imagine there are some who get these drugs for reasons other than pain, but a this point in time, I don't see how anyone who does not have a legitimate need can be obtaining them from an OCS. The requirements are very tight.

You are one of the "fortunate ones" who have been able to find a caring PM doctor who you "... don't have to jump through any of those hoops. No drug tests or pill counts.She keeps an eye on you but there are no silly games. If the meds she gave me aren't working she writes for something that will, nice lady and she really cares about her patients. (your words)

Most of us aren't so fortunate and have had to resort to OCS's because we either could not find a doctor who would treat us adequately; we cannot afford a pain management clinic or don't have access to a pain management clinic. I would have to drive several hours, one way, to get a PM clinic.

Those of us who use legitimate OCS's/ROP's aren't paying "thousands of dollars on scams". I have never ordered controlled meds from a NROP and hope I never will. I say that because once RH goes into affect, I don't know what I will be willing to do to get adequate pain relief.

My pain is physical and it is very real and very debilitating at times. I wish you could sit in my room at night and see how many times I am forced to get out of bed because of the pain I am in - even with taking medication. I wish you could follow me around over the course of a day and see how many times I have to stop what I am doing to lay down on my heating pad or ice packs just to try to get the pain under control.

I have not taken a passive approach nor have I taken the "easy way out" when it comes to treating my pain. I have had many injections, years of physical therapy and other body treatments but these treatments provide only mild, temporary relief and do not take my pain away completely.

My only comment, and I have made so very few in all these years DB has supported my moniker....
The posts found in this thread definitely separate the pill poppers from those in so much pain, a needle is the furthest issue in supporting a life style maintained through medicine.

This article was obviously originally written about OxyContin and someone changed it to make it appear like it was about Nubain (for whatever reason..) There are several parts of the article where the OxyContin portion was not edited, plus the dosages it mentions are OxyContin dosages. I bolded the portions I am referring to..

Why does it never cease to amaze you when you claim to be rational?

If you were rational, you would realize that 'just' finding a local doctor, etc., must not be that easy to do in every particular situation or people would do that exact thing, I'm sure, don't you think, logically and rationally speaking?

OOUCH!!!


...but true...

You go girl Gina! This person has never had to find a doctor near them that could treat chronic pain.

God, if only I could "find a legal doctor either in private practice or a pain management clinic and develop a doctor patient relationship with someone who actually cares about my wellbeing" then I will know I have found the end of the rainbow!

Jeeze Gene....You just Described My Life!!

Thank you, I was reluctant to say but I am glad someone did.

Unfortunately, I think I probably described the life of many people here.

It really ticks me off when people come on here with this "holier than thou" attitude because they have been fortunate enough to find a doctor who will give them "just about anything they want".

There are so many different reasons why people use OCSs. If you don't have insurance, you don't have the money to visit several doctors looking for one who will treat you well. There is a Pain Clinic 5 minutes from my house. They won't take me at all since I don't have insurance. When I did have insurance, they gave me plenty of meds, but they had me in there every two weeks doing procedures.