I'm interested to know anyones thoughts on vicodin/hydrocodone as a depression medicine and fixer for lack of motivation/self-esteem??

I've been on anti-depressants since I was a 15(many years ago) and I have been on over 15 different anti-depressants. Some worked a little, but mostly didn't do much of anything and some made it worse.

About a year ago i broke up with a girlfriend and ended a long relationship. I knew i wouldn't be able to handle such a loss so I researched medicines online and came to the conclusion that i could strategically use vicodin to help me get over my ex. Not only did this work amazingly, but it has changed my life to such a level that i feel it should be in a movie. The previous break-up I went through ended up in a suicide attempt and a long-term mental hospital stay. this time, Not only was I fine with the break up, but my mind was never more clear and I was able to see that it was better for me to break up, something i would have never seen without vicodin.

Forward now to the present time, a year later, and I am still take about 20-30mg of vicodin per day, and my life has never been this good. I have since started a business and have quit my full time job and making enough money to buy my dream car(lamborghini). I COMPLETELY attribute my happiness and success to vicodin. I am motivated every day and I have never had this much self-esteem in my life. I am not necessarily advocating vicodin for depression, because it certainly has its' drawbacks: liver-toxic, withdrawl symptoms if i miss a dose, and a few minor others.

All this being said, I wouldn't take my self-treatment back at all and I believe it was a great educated decision. I would like to know everyone's thoughts/criticisms on this!

Mike

It has its setbacks,there are no perfect drugs.I've never been on any anti-depressants so i'm not sure how they compare.The problem is most doctors would never even consider prescribing opiates for depression

Where are you getting 5-6 Vicodin/day?
Is a doctor treating you for depression with hydrocodone?
What was your initial daily dosage of Vicodin?
It also sounds to me like you might need to rethink your inter-personal relationships with the opposite sex.

Techically, opiods are supposed to depress your emotions. This is why people often get emotional when going through withdrawal. It is a depressant. So, other than the buzz that some talk about, it should not be giving you motivation. I have heard of some FAKE Vicodin which was filled with some speed and tylenol, as well as a muscle relaxant. it looked identical to Hydro Watson 10/500. Scary, to say the least. The only thing I can think of is that it does give the user a geeling of well being due to the side effect, which usaally doesn't last long after you build up tolerance.

I know several people who say that when they take it, they are less depressed. This comes mostly from stay at home moms with controlling husbands. I don't think it could really help with actual depression on a long-term basis.

A CNS depressant doesn't necessarily depress emotions. However, opioids are unsuitable for reactive depression; time usually heals this variety whereas endogenous depression is often more troublesome.

Opioids such as buprenorphine are being considered for severe treatment-resistant endogenous depression, but not for reactive depression.

If one considers the possibility of finding a new partner 'on the rebound', and the new partner is better than the old one, it would very likely 'cure' the depression caused by the ending of the previous relationship, even if it goes pear-shaped eventually. Endogenous depression doesn't seem to respond to such fortuitous events; one often sees a victim of depression who seems to have everything he or she could wish for, but it makes no difference to their state of mind.

i buy all my meds online from a long time source. Doctor knows about it but obviously cannot prescribe it for depression. I've been on 20-30mg/day since the day I decided to take it regularly. Usually about 1 7.5mg in the morning/afternoon/nighttime is all I take. I never take it to get 'high' but to maintain a stable happiness/motivation.

Not sure what you mean about rethink inter-personal relationships with the opposite sex

I've heard of this as well. I've taken vicodin for surgical reasons in my past. its definitely real vicodin(or hydrocodone rather).

EDIT: Opoids as a depressant? I would 100% say that is not a true statement. Does it 'depress' chemicals/something in your brain medically speaking? perhaps - Just in the same way alcohol is classified as a depressant but has opposite effects for most people. Just like weed is a 'stimulate' by technical standards, yet I get more Depressed on weed than any other substance i've had... For some, opoids do 'depress' them, and for others like myself, it is the complete opposite of a depressant. It's just like the fact that many people i know get sleepy/drowsy/lazy when they take vicodin but for me it gives me more energy than a redbull, more self esteem than a therapist, and more motivation than Tony Robins - and I say that with complete seriousness

I agree to a certain extent. It would be hard for this as a long-term basis treatment, but I do wonder if there is some possibility here(in a lesser form) for depressive meds that have similar effects of hydrocodone(opiods) as I am thoroughly convinced of its anti-depressive attributes.

This is just the most foolhardy course that I have ever seen a sane human being travel.

that, or its a poor excuse to use hydro and call it "theraputic"....

what is kind of comical is the partner in any relationship that was founded while on this "therapy", would see the mood swings and the self loathing that comes with hydro reduced dosing. she's gonna see, figue she got with a closet addict and run like hell before REALLY giving you something to be depressed about !

I couldn't agree more. However, in this instance of the breakup, reactive depression was immediately cured by hydrocodone, hands down. I've been through many reactive depression states throughout my life with much harsher terms and I know how I react and this helped me get through it with ease.

Also, this post wasn't really to make about about getting over the breakup. I am a lifelong depressed person so I am focusing more on hydrocodone as an anti-depressant possiblity as opposed to just using it to get through a traumatic event.

Thanks for all the comments/input! Keep em coming!

xxx rude post removed xxx

Happiness/motivation? That would be the "getting high" part. You are in denial and simply liking the effects of opioids. This, however, is short lived and will leave you with a larger problem in the end.

Yes! Hydrocodone does act as a stimulant for some and will help with depression. Probably due to the thebaine component. Just be happy that it helps you this way and ignore the board trolls that are jealous!
Have a Great Day!

thanks, I agree with you.

You may not feel the desire to begin new relationships because opioids can become the partner. They reduce libido, which can have an anti-depressant effect in its own right. They are also reliable, never get a headache and don't change their mind at the last minute. But they will lose interest in you eventually, when tolerance develops. It may not have developed in a year or so, but one day you may find they just don't work any more.

opium was used for thousands of years for a plethora of reasons, not the least of which was what we would call depression today...now, does that make it safe? absolutely not. but if you believe that people should be free to treat themselves in any manner they see fit, as long as it doesn't harm anyone else, then Jinx should be allowed to pursue this.

obviously, governments all over the world believe the opposite, which is why boards like this exist.

i agree with the sentiment that vicodin isn't a long term solution, and that ideally one should look beyond drugs, but honestly, its Jinx's life. pain (of ALL kinds) is a subjective experience. our society was no longer free the minute we denied this simple fact.

there was an Onion headline a number of years ago that read "All drugs now legal as long as user has a job". I think that about sums it up: as long as Jinx can responsibly live his life, we shouldn't care one bit how he chooses to do it.

Hi Jinx... Its nice to meet you... Well i would be worried about the damage to your liver when your tolerance builds up to the 5 6 your taking now and turns to 10 20 a day .etc... it could turn into a bad situation for your body,, I know this sounds common but have you tried to talk to a therapist or other dr about your depression? I know men dont tend to like talking(i know my hubby doesnt.,lol).. but that may help you even if only a little... My sister was bipolar and was on many meds untill they found the right combination to help her , maybe there is something else besides the hydro that would help ? I see you have written you dont intend to take anymore then what your taking but sadly our bodies get use to meds and there is a risk of needing higher doses, hence the liver problems,,withdrawls (depression from withdrals),, tricky situation ,,, I hope you can find some real happiness without the meds, as thats important too , i wish you all the best ,,, takecare sincerely Faith

Sorry I didn't read this whole thread so if this was said already I'm sorry.

There was a thread going last week about not drinking on Hydrocodone and many mentioned they have less of a desire to be social. Could less of a desire to be social make you more depressed?
I've thought about this topic since it's been brought up a few times I've been reading the board and for me I don't find it to be a good thing for depression.
I think it helps make me feel better since I don't hurt as much so in that way yes it helps my mood.
It has been used for years as a antidepressent so it must have some value in that area for people and shouldn't be dismissed by the Dr's just because it is Hydrocodone and each case should be looked at closely. My husband basicly can stay on Ritalin for life so why can't a depressed person or a chronic pain person stay on Hydrocone for life? They seem to really look at this drug like it's the devil.
K

It is obvious from your own statements that you have been relying on medication since you were an adolescent. Most addictions begin in adolescence, no matter what substance it is. You are used to taking a pill to conquer your demons. It isn't a demon, it's called LIFE. Sometimes it's good, but when you are a teenager, it can suck big time. One needs to go through adverse experiences to learn to handle them and move on. Many, many, many of us did for centuries without a pill (as a teenager, that is.)

Now you are wanting someone to endorse your use of Vicodin after the breakup of a relationship. What would you do if you had a fiance and she was killed in a car wreck? Justify oxycodone?

I do agree with the above posters and there are some very good threads on this subject. There is one poster in particular who had treatment resistant depression for years and hydro helped, but not entirely. He is now on suboxone, but he is older and had been to many doctors. I think what you are doing is sabotaging yourself. The best thing that you could do would be to taper off and put all the raw energy into exercise. As it is, you have not dealt with the issue--you've only delayed it. Get out there and learn to deal with the pains that come with living. Without them, you will NEVER experience the joys.

I wish you well.

Great thoughts Kserah

Jeez, the dude is taking 20-30 mgs of hydro a day. Is he dependent? Yea, of course. Obviously, HE is not an EXPERT like a few of you seem to think. Let him talk.. Where's my sports car??

OldandWorn...I was thinking the same thing...where's my car at as well?? lol
but to the OP I see your point 100% and I will not bash you or anything but I do understand.I understand as well what the other posters are saying to you as well....they are just looking out for ya! Thats all...alot of people on the board have great knowledge about hydro and other things...Good luck to the OP

hello jinx,

The first year or two I used hydrocodone were the greatest years of my life too. I was happy, extremely motivated, had a good job, and found it easy to deal with the opposite sex. I would eat a few vikes and go outside, enjoy life, camp, hike, etc.

Fast forward four years later. I am on Suboxone Therapy for opiate dependence and i know in the back of my head, that one day, there is a hell of a withdrawal waiting for me.

Vikes will probably give you energy and will make life easier. But as your tolerance grows, it will become necessary to do things you never would have thought of doing to obtain the medication you need to feel "normal."

I am not attacking you bro. I did the same thing you are doing now. And I applaud your honesty. But be careful as what i posted above is the nature of the opiate. There are no exceptions, no way around it.

I get it. There are very few people that can come to a smooth landing off a hydro habit. But still, the car??

I hope you don't take people's feedback too hard, jinx. On this board, if you ask for advice, people will definitely give it!

I asked my shrink one time if they ever prescribed hydro for depression (because I agree- when I was in between anti-depressants, the pain killer seemed to help temporarily). He said no way. I remember him saying specifically, "An anti-depressant won't ever be able to compete with how you feel on vicodin." I think that's the issue here- what works temporarily, versus what works long term.

I contend that it is not the nature of the opiate; it is the nature of the society that restricts them.

and, please, listen to what I am saying here. Addiction and habituation are the nature of the opiate; but the "things you never would have thought of doing to obtain the medication" is the nature of society.

About 16 years ago when I was barely 20, I had a horrible cough/cold so I went to see my Dr. He gave me a scrip for a cough syrup called I think Tussionex. I went home, took more than prescribed, because I felt like hell and hey I was 20, but instant bliss. Since that day, I have been an occasional user of Vicodins and or small dose oxy's for pain management *lupus and RA, but I have always always noticed the instant elevated mood as well. I have never taken more than 3 vicodin on any one day and I don't get a regular prescription for them, they are prescribed for me during a flare up, so that is what brought me here, to obtain my own source for moments of need and managing my OWN body as I see fit. I go weeks without any opiates at all, and I have twice been presribed anti-depressants for short term use for family deaths, etc. that did nothing. A few Vicodins got me through far far better. I guess my point is that no everyone that takes Vicodin for the feel good feeling is headed to addiction and lockdown, or being unable to function without huge doses daily.

I couldn't agree more. thx for the opinion

Thats the thing, I am 100 time MORE social since being on hydrocodone for a year. I'm not sure why, but again as mentioned earlier, I have had my confidence go up substantially while on hydrocodone 'self therapy'. So to answer your question, I have MORE of a desire to be social while on hydrocodone. I'm thinking that is merely a side effect of it because logically speaking if I am not depressed then naturally I would be more social.

I would disagree that i have been relying on meds my whole life. I grew up and was FORCED on meds my whole life. Since I was independant of my early adulthood I have not been on any meds whatsoever. I don't have an addictive personality but I clearly see your point about the addiction. I have heard of suboxone and someone told me they used that to get off of their hydrocodone addiction. I am addicted to hydrocodone both physically and mentally - I clearly admit that. However, I am bringing up the point - so what? What if my addiction is able to be steady and as lifechanging as it has been(in a good way). If you turn on TV or read any articles about addictions they are usually addictions that ruin someones life and/or relationships. This addiction has undoubtedly improved my life(atleast in the short term).

Thanks for the great discussion. It's really given me more of an insight.

wow, great info. I have that same fear as you - the hell of withdrawl waiting for me when I quit. Did you take suboxone to get OFF the vicodin? That's what I have been told is a normal method, but that almost sounds oxymoron to me - lose one addiction and gain another.

No problem, I enjoy honest feedback/criticism and it really does help. I wonder if there will ever be an anti-depressant that is chemically similar to opiates without the addiction. Science needs to catch up!

i dont care what anyone says,hydrocodone is the best anti-depressant medication on the market,ive always had a little touch of the blues,kind of anti-social and tried all kinds of anti-depressants i was shocked to see how every single one of them made you feel like you were somebody different then your true self,or just a fogged up head...hydrocodone allows you to be your true self with a big smile and sharp as a tack!,i couldnt believe how social and out going it allowed me to be,its absolutely shocking that the medical industry doesn't use hydrocodone to treat depression or anti-social anxiety because of so called "off label" use..if you suffer from depression and are sick and tired of these [censored] anti-depression meds that turn you into zombies and hide your true personality try hydrocodone,it has one risk though it will cause you to maintain a regular dose schedule because it is kind of addictive but its the best anti-depressant medication ever created!!..and soooooo sad many people will never get to experience true relief from such a horrible disease because its a narcotic medication...i would be curious to know if anyone here gets prescribed hydrocodone from their doctor specifically for depression,id love to know how many doc truly recognize its benefit and scripts it for depression despite it being "off label" use...anyone?

Yes, I think the addictive part is truly the issue. With an anti-depressant one does not need to take more of the medication over time to get the effect. That's not the case with hydrocodone :(.

Amen to that! I couldn't have said it better, man

From what I've heard anti-depressants take a longass time to work. So, why wait weeks for relief when you can take something that works right away?

Because that medicine that works "right away" is not meant for long-term use ... and that floaty, euphoric feeling doesn't last forever. Tolerance builds up, and then you find yourself needing more and more medicine to achieve the same results. Eventually, you're taking it just to keep withdrawals at bay. (And probably more depressed than you were to begin with, because now you're also addicted to pain medicine.)

amen.. it also causes sever mood swings along with the depression after a few months.

opiates have no business being taken as a mood enhancer (especially long term)

Hydro would only work for short-term emotional sadness and a temporary lack of motivation (like what the other person mentioned), but not for chronic depression because of it's addiction issue. Hydrocodone is a good med at lifting your mood for a quick fix of depression IMO.

Narcotics allow you to be your true self? And sharp as a tack? That is groundbreaking medical news and needs to be communicated quickly to whoever writes all of those medication inserts warning patients not to drive, operate machinery or engage in dangerous activity while taking opioid medications.
And they are "kind of" addictive? That would be in contrast to "really" addictive or "slightly" addictive?
I think you need to re-think the difference between curing the blues and getting high. I'm pretty confident most people would agree with you that getting high is a sure-fire way to cure the blues.

I agree, and when the quick fix no longer fixes you that well and it becomes a need then the depression will be worse then ever.

I think it could definatly work for some people. I don't think every day would be neccesary though.
Lots of people do this already without doc though.

I'm all for it. Glad it worked for you. Personnaly i'd use once every 2 days and keep torence down.

Well put!! Sure getting "high" on Narcotics will mask Depression and Get you Motivated, but it will not FIX your self-esteem, it will also just mask
That too!! I personnally know it does help with the depression associated with Cronic Pain for about 4-5 months at moderate doses, after that it
Does not even work for the pain at higher doses. Then your worse off!
No Pain relieve, No help with the depression associated!....
Also, The large amounts of APAP you must consume with the Hydrocodone
(have yet to find pure Hydro tabs) is not good for your health!!!

This is why CP sufferers have a harder time finding relief from many doctors. Because we sometime use them to "cure" other things, and start to
Self medicate. I've been guilty.

The same number of doctors who will get struck off for malpractice, probably.

In my own personal opinion i think opiates are a bad idea for depression. I actually think that even antidepressants are not that good. I think that therapy such as CBT or human givens is the way to go with depression. Most pills (opiates or not)just mask an underlying problem that needs to be addressed.

xxx this thread is about Vicodin and not about Kratom xxx

xxx this thread is about Vicodin and not about Kratom xxx

the reason most people disagree with me is because some of you(although you'll never admit it) sneak an extra one here an there when you want to feel a little extra special,i have never needed anything over my 120 count bottle in 6 years,if used responsibly i see no problem,why havent i needed to increase my dosage after all these years,dont allow your system to build up excessive tolerance by popping extra ones here and there and before you head out on those friday and saturday nights or whenever....and the reason i say this is because everyone keeps saying "your just getting high"..after awhile you dont get high anymore its just enough to shake off the blues,id have to pop like 3 or 4 to get high and that would throw everything out of whack my tolerance and dosage limits per month...im just saying it works fantastic for me and i believe it could help others out as well..SSRI's i would think are far more dangerous on your brain and body...

Is there a version of vicodin that doesn't have the tylenol in it? You should take that instead to spare your organs. Would that be oxycodone?

xxx this thread is about Vicodin and not about Kratom xxx

Have you ever tried to figure out why you have these awful "blues" in the first place that you've spent the last 6 years trying to shake off? Maybe if you quit taking Vicodin your blues would go away. Or are you planning to keep taking 4 Vicodin per day for the rest of your life just to shake off the blues?
I think you are in serious denial about what you are really doing.

martind, are you saying that his vicodin (Hydrocodone)is causing his depression? I experienced depression "the blues" sometimes they feel like "the BLACKS" since I can remember from around the age of 12 or so and probably before that but I can't remember back that far. I've been diagnosed with GAD and chronic depression and have tried several AD's mostly SSRI's and all made me feel worse or "spaced out". I "discovered" hydrocodone about five years ago when I was diagnosed with DDD (degenrative disc disease} and found that it took away my depression and anxiety,made me feel "normal", more social,loving,and just makes me feel a hell of alot better about myself. Up until then I abused alcohol and attempted suicide twice. The hydro helped me to quit drinking 3 years ago and boy do I miss those hangovers,blacouts, etc. My point is if someone chooses to "self medicate" their depression/anxiety with hydro or other "legal" opiates, then they should have the right to. Trust me, emotional/mental pain can hurt just as much as physical pain, I know I suffer from both.

Discussing the subject of treatment of depression with opiates should really be diagnosis-based and focused on the underlying cause of the problem.
One of the side effects (read: not the medical purpose) of narcotic drugs is euphoria. Of course euphoria will chase away the "blues." But what is causing this? Is it an imbalance of seratonin uptake, a serious underlying physical condition, treatment resistant depression or just the realities of everyday life? Go back and read the medical history of morphine and laudanum in the days before science understood how these narcotic drugs actually worked.
Also,in many ways ethanol can initially have the same effect on certain kinds of depressive syndromes just like opiates but you will be hard put to find any medical support for prescribing it to cure depression.
Except in very rare incidences, I believe someone taking opiates every day to self-medicate "depression" is not only misusing the drug but also headed for problems that are likely to be much worse than the problem they think they were solving.

Can you be more specific about these "problems" you're referring to? I know in my case without the hydro I wouldn't have been able to keep/maintain my job which I hate by the way but pays well and allows me to support my family. I also believe that life is too short not to be happy as much as possible for the time we have. I believe everyone has a right to happiness as long as their not hurting others to acquire it. In my case this drug that allows me to function physically everyday just happens to relieve my depression and anxiety and since I'm a "beer glass half full" kind of person intead of a negatavist I feel like I'm receiving a "bonus." I had an aunt that was an alcoholic and drank excessively most of her life but ironocally committed suicide after taking Prozac. I also recently had a neice that was killed by a drunk driver,it's funny you hardly ever hear about someone killed by someone on vicodin or even oxycodone. I agree that opiates are not a cure for everyone's depression and different drugs react differently for different people, but just like alcohol can be used as disinfectant and can be ingested to destress hydro and many other drugs can have multiple uses.

If you are honestly not aware of the potential problems of self-medicated, long-term opiate use, I'm even more negative regarding your approach to treating your depressive condition.
I cannot count the number of patients I know personally who have ended up in substance abuse recovery programs because of exactly the lack of understanding you seem to have.
At this point, all I can do is suggest to you another perspective on your logic. You are correct about life being too short, though. In time you will, I believe, find that it is too short to be chained to an opiate to be happy.

I'm fully aware of the abuse that goes on with painkillers,but abuse happens with everything, doesn't it? If there wasn't we wouldn't have all these drug rehab clinics and alcoholic wards,etc. But what's wrong with being a responsible hardworking taxpaying family man using a legal drug to help kill the chronic pain caused by years of working a physically demanding job to support said family and to help so that he/she can continue working? I'm talking about taking the drug only when the pain and the stress from said pain gets so bad sometimes you would rather be dead. Just like anything else there will always be those who abuse or overindulge like this Ryan kid that's going to make things harder and more expensive to get the medication that helps us to continue to be contributing and responsible citizens. By the way aren't most of these nuts that go off on killing sprees at Mcdonalds and schools been found to either be on or coming off antidepressants? I haven't heard of one coming off hydrocodone. Another thing, I just had a full physical and doc says I'm actually in better shape than I was 5 years ago, go figure.

I disagree that abuse happens with everything, first of all. Far from it.
In addition, the discussion that was going on previously involved the efficacy of taking opiates long-term as a medical treatment for depression.
It is a completely different conversation when it centers on using painkillers to treat chronic pain. I'm not sure where that change of subject occurred but it doesn't look like it applies to "Vicodin for depression and motivation/self-esteem."
If you are being treated by a physician for your painful back condition, then good for you.

wow my story is almost identical to rocker61....and those that keep saying stuff about finding this "underlying" problem that causes the blues,its just something your probably never understand,and lucky you dont have to experience chemical imbalances in the brain,even when everything around you couldnt be better your brain throws your moods into a complete tailspin,very frustrating its something a shrink could never fix because there is no "underlying issue" and it sucks having to risk liver damage using hydrocodone but with DDD(degenerative disk disease) like rocker has im killing two birds with one stone using this particular medication,im more happy,social pain free and outgoing just really living and enjoying life now,its alot better then living in a foggy daze with crazy brain zaps and the same addictive nature using SSRI to treat depression...

and novakitty oxycodone probably contains tylenol or ibuprofen i think,my best bet was the 15/80 custom compounds like i use to get from medsnationwide those were the best,but thanks to the DEA its no more,shame the little guy cant live a pain/blues free existence without a hellish heap of hoops to jump through...and no Kratom didnt seem to work for me(nice for taking an edge off a withdrawl though)

For those that want to delve into this topic further, here is a link to the same issue/topic started by a grand pooh bah 3 years ago:

http://www.drugbuyers.com/freeboard/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/375113#Post375113.

Sorry can't get the link to work, but just copy it into your browser, or under this same forum for depression, scroll down a few topics (7 or 8) to see "Opiates for Severe Depression" started by Trampy.

This thread contains a lot of information discussed since it was started in '06.


Yayy, got the link to work!!

I have read on the board over the years of people taking Hydrocodone for depression and some even had it prescribed by their doctor for that specific purpose. I guess everyone is different. For those that have pain, Hydrocodone takes the pain to a tollerable level and for those who do not have pain, it gives them a high, or euphoric feeling.

But to each his or her own --- we should not be here to judge each other but be supportive of others on the board.

BTW, this is not meant towards any particular person, just my two cents on depression and Hydrocodone.

We obviusly have a difference of opinion on the wisdom of using hydrocodone to treat your problem with the "blues."
However, there should be no difference of opinion on two of your points:
-SSRI medications are not addictive by definition
-Oxycodonoe does not contain Tylenol or ibuprofen

Your pretty much right on the money Princess. I have severe pain and take hydro and it doesnt do anything for me, but dull my pain. But other people who are not in pain, it gives them a high that gives them more energy so to speak.
Taz

hey jinxdalinx

sorry for the late reply, i haven't been in this part of the board in a few weeks.

Naturally the vicodin habit i had was getting too expensive to handle. So I stepped up to Morphine Sulfate (ms-contin). After that it was oxycontin. It got a little worse from there and then I went to the clinic.

I don't know if sub would be good for a vicodin habit only. In my opinion, it would be easier to kick vicodin, say 5-8 pills a day, than subooxone. But that's just my experience with the drug.


Bill

Hello I am new here, I just would like to offer my experience with anti deppressents and hydrocodone. I would have to agree that hydrocodone helps with depression far more than any other antidpressant I have used. Over the past 10 years I have been on Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, and Lamictal, and seroqul. Not a single one of them had helped my depression and anxiety. As a matter of fact some of those medicenes made it worse and took all my energy away from me, as well as took my appitite away. However 3 years ago I had multiple surgureys on my knee and have been on hydrocodone for 3 years now. They help with my pain, as well as my depression and anxiety. I no longer feel like laying on the couch all day or not leaving the house. I can say my tolerance has gone up slightly over the years and I do get some wd's if I run out. But for me personally I would rather deal with that for a few day's.(I know many of you would disagree with that). Rather than have a lifetime of depression and anxiety.

Sorry, martind, must diagreee.

The horrible withdrawals are from Ativan, not Vicodin.
If you've never suffered from depression or anxiety you have NO idea what hopelessness feels like!
Everyone's tolerance for medication and how they metabolize it differs. No one can be positive he'll have to keep increasing it.
True, what Jinx says is opposite of what regular people want to hear but I'd rather he's happy NOW and not still searching and scrounging for something to make him feel life is worth living.
Why didn't you offer him ideas of what else might help him, instead of threats of 'beating the odds, running out of money and suffering withdrawals?'
Curious why you hang out here if you're so ANTI-DRUGS!

~

yeah because someone in so much pain that they can barely move has no idea what hopelessness feels like...

it will be said again. opiates have no business being prescribed as a mood enhancer or anti depressant. after a few months to a year, that pep in your step turns into severe mood swings, lethargy, and depression. take it from someone who knows... (and many others will tell you the same thing)

Maybe I don't understand exactly what the original topic of this post was meant to be. I explained earlier that I "discovered" that hydrocodone helped my depression/anxiety only after being prescribed it for chronic pain due to degenerative/compressed discs in my lower back. Obviously hydro's not a fixall drug for everyone's depression and/or anxiety. I was just explaining that in my case if I had known this a lot earler in my life chances are great I would have chosen hydro instead of a whole hell of a lot of alcohol and antidepressants that did nothing but spaced me out and at times made me feel worse. I respect martinds opinion and others who feel that opiates should be used for physical pain only but for me I thank God I finally found relief from both the physical pain I've had for the last 5 years and the mental pain I've had my whole life. It's also a bonus to finally understand what all those other people we're smiling about all those years. If you're not hurting others or yourself, DO IT!

Are pretty much all the Kratom you see sites selling online made for human consumption? How do you know which ones are and which ones aren't. I've seen alot of sites selling Kratom but they all say it's not made for consumption.

yeah, narcotics are incredible...i used to jog 6 miles every day...got in a car wreck and got hooked on pain killers...pretty much same buzz...but a lot less work with pain killers and more side effects.

opiates will make you feel wonderful at first but I think what we're trying to tell you is, that once your body and mind gets addicted, it is no longer fun and it no longer makes you happy. In fact it makes you more depressed than you were before you took the drugs. You not only build up a tolerance but you go through withdrawals if you run out and that will bring you down so low that you will wish you never touched the stuff. As long as you are careful and only taking it for pain (which is one of the only reasons it is prescribed) then you should be fine. But if you are taking opiates to be "happy" it will most likely ruin your life.

dont alot of people feel the same about alcohol ,for a few years everything is fine until it is control of you and your emotions ,,,mike

in response to ruby journey. i don't totally agree with that.

i am suffering from perimenopause and i do take an opiate several times a month to feel happy. i am under the care of a biopharmacutical ob/gyn and a pyschiatrist to aleviate the most of symptoms of peri-menopause but there are those days. as well, i have had extensive dental work done. i've had my entire upper right quadrant of my jaw graphted and was taking opiates (strong) for nearly a year and never felt withdrawal when i stopped. that may be because i've always had bad teeth and since i was 18 (now 46) have been taking opiates for all that time. the jaw graft was the longest. so i think what i'm trying to say is sometimes people don't always get hooked. i mean opiates have all the side effects that ruby said and i did feel depressed towards the end of that year that i had to take them, so i was so happy when i didn't have to anymore and just aspirin worked. drugs are good when they aren't abused. and opiates do make you happy if they are not abused.

sorry to disagree a little, nothing personal, just wanted to tell my story.

Ruby, I agree that abuse is wrong. The word "abuse" means to "misuse" or use wrongly. But when you say that all who take opiates to help relieve depression/anxiety issues are abusing or misusing them that's where I disagree. For one there are many examples of "multiple use" drugs/chemicals such as marijuana (helps nausea, headaches,glaucoma,anxiety,etc.),even the "hemp" is used to make material for clothing,lotions,etc. Aspirin can releive pain and also help blood circulation. Even alcohol is a "multi-use" chemical. There are many more, but you get my point? To me the bottom line is that if a person with anxiety/depression chooses to use opiates instead of AD's,therapy,alcohol,etc., I believe they have that right. Now I believe that opiate use over a long period can and almost always will build up a tolerance but there are few drugs out there that don't. Trust me, I know. In my case I take mine to get out of bed in the am, 1 or 2 to get through work day, I have a mostly physical job and with my back the pain is extreme without them. I usually need 1 after work but depends on the workload that day. I don't drink anymore,BTW one of the great benefits, I lost my desire for alcohol which is ok beacause I drank a lot for 20 years and that's enough, so I drink some hebal tea or take melatonin and once in a while a xanax or a valium. I've been taking hydro, nothing else seems to work, tried shots,ms contin,oxy,methadone,and fenatyl patch, for 2 years now and never "ran out" of my script. In other words, I'm not "abusing" them, I'm "using" them to maintain my life and support my family. I can't help those that choose to "misuse" hydro. But like I tried to tell martind earlier, anything can and probably already has been abused. You're next argument will probably be what if there were suddenly no more opiates? I don't know, being a positive "hydro bottle half full" person, I've enjoyed the joy I've felt the last 2 years, I just wish I would have discovered them 30 joyless years ago. I respect everyone's opinion, including my own! I wish everyone success in staying pain free and happy!!

Drinking heavily for 20 years, and taking LSD and mushrooms, may have contributed to depression and anxiety somewhat.

I respect everybody's opinion when they are respectful, especially when they disagree. So thanks for that folks.

If hydro was meant to be an anti-depressant either it would be prescribed or used in some other drug specifically for treating depression. But it is not. Yes I know it makes you happy (same effect for me too) but it is addictive and you need to take more and more to maintain that happiness.

Now take a drug like marijuana which is not physically addictive and has wonderful medicinal properties, is legal to prescribe in certain situations. There are barely any bad side affects really. Same with aspirin.

What antidepressants do is they affect a certain neurotransmitter called serotonin to exert a longer lasting effect by blocking its re-uptake. Studies have currently showed that if depressed people who need these drugs don't take them, they could potentially have brain damage (I don't know much about this last statement but a psychiatrist mentioned this to me a week ago). What hydro does is it makes you feel good very quickly but it is the tolerance that makes you take more and more to get the same effect. And then you are addicted which causes severe depression once you run out. And of course the more you take the more you are likely to OD. This is not the case with traditional anti-depressants. And for those of you who can take it for years and not get addicted, you are a very small minority (or you've never run out:D).

I think it would be wonderful if a drug incorporated opiates in its composition. Perhaps they are working on this now but in the meantime, opiates should not be used to combat depression. It sounds like the pro hydro folks in this thread are also taking it for pain and it sounds like happiness is a wonderful side effect. But for folks who just use it to be happy and you don't have a lifetime supply, you are facing a downward spiral of addiction and depression.

Just my thoughts. I mean no disrespect to anyone. Happy to have this forum to share my views.

RJ

Thanks nep, I needed that. Your humor is almost as dry as mine. I apologize for my attempt at humor for the post you're referring to. I did actually try acid and mushrooms once seperately a long time ago but unfornutately don't recall the experiences at all. Must be all that drinking,kills the brain cells ya know. I started drinking at an early age to escape/mask my depression and anxiety. I'm sure a lot of you know what I'm saying. Back then, I felt stressed and embarrased about my "condition". I just wish I hadn't wasted all those years trying to cover it up with alcohol/drugs instead of admitting to myself and others that depreesion is an illness/disease like any other except I grew up in a family that felt things like that are abnormal and weak and should kept to yourself, or I always heard "get over it, there's not a f&%kin' thing wrong with you!" I wish they had had forums like this back in my chiildhood, hell I was 18 when I saw my first computer. It might have saved me from a lot of self destruction if I'd been able to talk to people with the same afflictions as me. Anyway I'm ramblin on, but I do appreciate this site and all that I've learned from it and everyone's POV. How boring it would be if we all agreed on everything,huh?

Thanks RJ for your comments. Just to let you know I am unfornutately not one of the small minority and I know how quickly the tolerance for hydro and other opoids build up first hand. When I first started taking them they were just plain old 5/500 3xday but after 6 months or so moved up to 3 10mgs/day. I then realized the importance of taking them only when the pain was at it's worse. I also take ocassional "breaks" from them and use Tramadol/advil instead. Don't you think this is where most most people get into trouble with opiates especially? The more you take the better you feel mentality? Someday's are harder than others to stick to this, but then other's are easier so it evens out I guess. As for AD's I haven't had the best experience with them personally. I don't know where you're getting your info on no withdrawl after quit taking them but I have a brother that attempted suicide after years of being on prozac and paxil and getting off them and an ex girlfriend who decided it was better to die after trying several AD's. It sounds like you might have had a bad expeience with hydro or just a good experience with an SSRI. If I'm wrong I'm sorry, it wouldn't be the first time,haha. Well I got to get some sleep but take care and hope good things happen for all.

Oh I never said that there weren't horrible withdrawals associated with AD's. I am fully aware of the withdrawals. The comparison I was trying to make was that you don't have to keep taking more and more to get the same affect like you do with opiates. That's all.

I used to be against AD's until I found one that worked. I tried Prozac, Lexapro, and Celebrex and I never felt differently. Now I take Zoloft and it has changed my life for the better. It has made me more social and has reduced my anxiety. Everyone's brain chemistry is different so Zoloft may not work for you but I wouldn't give up on AD's. Keep trying, and wait at least 6 weeks and start with a strong enough dose. If after 6-8 weeks it doesn't work or you have terrible side affects try something new and seek therapy.

Zoloft has given me no side affects and it has improved my relationships with family and friends. People who don't know I am on it have noticed a difference and have commented about my mood and appearance.
Good Night and Good Luck Rocker.

If this has already been posted, please excuse me for posting it again.

Anyway, have any of you read this:

http://opioids.com/ pages 1-3

Although I don't completely understand all the terminology, I can cmprehend most of what this person has written. It is a very interesting look at opioids and mood (especially the first page).

it gives me energy too...thought i was the only one !!!!!

also I have been taking 2-3 10mgs per day for the last 4+ years, with no need to increase.....but also need the 2-3 per day...not a bad trade off for having a much better quaility of life...

I inevnted ( I thought) the "hydro anti-depressant."

That was about one year ago... Let me explain how it came about, what has happened since and where I am today.

Nobody really understands me. Not my wife, not my Dad. They are the ones closest to me. I think if they understood the true me, they would be shocked. I have described these things to them, but it's kind of like an apple, you can explain all day what it taste like to someone who has never had one, but they will NOT understand until they tase for themselves. Even then, people are different, if you could "download" what "their" thoughts of the apple taste were into YOUR head... the experience would be different than the "your apple taste file" in your brain.

Now, when I was 13 I think my nervous system exploded. Panic undescribeable, so I will no try. A whole host of "branch psychosis" followed because of this. I expected to die every day. When I did not die each day I was very surprised. Walked in a state of hyperventilation.. total mental diruption.(I will not try to explain further as it would do no good)

I was not crazy... No, I did not "see things" "hear things"
or any of the such. After about a year I became very good at hideing it. after another year I was became a professional at hidding it. The next year I received my PHD in hidding it.

Then I discovered alcohol in my teens. Bingo! worked well for many years. Cured symptoms better than any thing I have done. But even from the very first "drink reliefe" There was a major price to pay.. hangovers! So for a long time my reliefe was a "deal with the devil." Get free for today... But he wanted x3 the suffering for payment. In the end I had to cut it out with the alcohol.

5-years went by.. I did not take so much as an asprin. I got worse. I had learned by all kind of phobia techniques to avoid all out panic. I did not leave town. I would lay across my bed when dizzy. And I avoided the entire world.

My chest began to hurt to the point that I needed to see a doctor. It was that bad.. because doctors were another thing that I avoided. Bless his sole! I was in my mid 20's and he checked me for 2-weeks. Blood, pee, dookie, skin, hair, x-rays.. calling college pals than were now specialists. He could find nothing wrong with me. I hid the fact of what i am telling you now... So I mustered up the courage to tell him a small portion of what i am telling you. He put me on xanax and it helped... it was a 70% cure.
He said I would most likely be on benzo's all my life. He died several years ago and he is right. I take valium today. In a dose that would knock most people out.. But It never had that effect on me. people do not even know I take medication. My wife is an r.n. and when we were dating she could not tell any of this. And was kinda shocked when I told her the story. Even to this day she does not fully understand. Mostly I keep it to myself.

Ohh... Hydro, I had a tooth pulled about 1.5 years ago. I discovered it. Cure!!! Thats all I can say.. I thanked God for the discovery.

These days... I'm not a dope head. I Take 20mg total of hydro per-day (this month has been more like 30.. but circumstance that I am not going to get into have been very extreme, not with my personal problems but with events in my life, most preachers would be cursing if they were me!). Some days it works some days it does not. I am thinking I am going to stop taking it pretty soon. But I guess the reason is because; every now and then it works. Not as well as in the begining.. But something is better than nothing. And I can not, in my personal use of the drug, cite one case of one thing negative in the way of a side effect.

So.. On I go in life... What choice do I have? I have to do the best I can. I'm positive others have done better and so be it. I am me.. And I am doing the best I can. If you want to judge me... I would suggest you put on my jeans and wear them first.

Based on my study I would smoke pot. But I tried it and it was the worst.. I had to get drunk to stop the panic caused by the pot. Go figure! Just goes to show you, what works for one does not work for all.

In the end, based on 20 yrs of study.. 10 good years with the internet.. I have not come to any real conclusions. I only know I am going to have to play the cards I have been dealt. As bad as things have been in my life, I still know people who would cut off their hand to trade places with me.

Hope I have helped more than I have hurt.

I self-medicate like you Mike. I try to take a "break" of a few days between self-medicating -to keep my tolerance lower. I suffer from back pain due to working at a desk for a ridiculous amount of time every week. A doc won't give me a script so I resort to paying street prices unfortunately. If you have the resources and discipline to keep your demand for hydro low, more power to you. Like you, I find hydro can help w/ my attention span and keep me motivated when I become apathetic towards work or other outlets in life. Use discipline, and always be safe and I don't think you will have any problems. Just my opinion.

These days... I'm not a dope head. I Take 20mg total of hydro per-day (this month has been more like 30.. but circumstance that I am not going to get into have been very extreme, not with my personal problems but with events in my life, most preachers would be cursing if they were me!). Some days it works some days it does not. I am thinking I am going to stop taking it pretty soon. But I guess the reason is because; every now and then it works. Not as well as in the begining.. But something is better than nothing. And I can not, in my personal use of the drug, cite one case of one thing negative in the way of a side effect.




Thats the problem with hydro, it is strictly a short term fix. The longer you take it, the more you need. If you are lucky enough to be able to take a break from it for a month or two and then start back on it, that would probably allow you to stay at a low doseage, but you did say you already have jumped up another 10mg, so whats next? another 10mg? Not that I am judging, especially since I have no idea what you are going through. For me, while on hydro, when life got tough, I easily justified taking more and more until I graduated to oxycodone which was twice as bad as the hydro. I have met many people on this board that have been there done that. If you haven't experienced any negative side effects from the hydro yet, wait till you tell your body that it can't have anymore.

Well... Can't agree with your there. For you see I will not let my body get in the shape where it "wants it" and there is no supply. Why? Simple, I keep enuff on hand that if my resources look as though they be jeopary... I wont go cold turkey. Get it?

As for what I have been going through... It's been tough..

BUT you should read before you type. I have went over 1-year with 20mg per day being a MAX, many days were less than that.. Seems to me you might be one of those "ASuMEer's." This recent increase is in correction. Circumstances warranted it. I am talkin abut last week.. already back to reg dose.

Thanks for the support.
Keep comming back, It don't work.. so work it or not, it is up to you anyway.

Sorry for the snappyness... really. I'm sure you meant well. But no Dude, next is not 40mg... then Oxy... NO.

Just a fact.

They make hundreds of doctors per town. If you look, you WILL find.

zzz23 YOU have the same thing I have been going through since 1991 then I had about a seven year break and in 2000 had to go to Valium and now hydrocodone also. My doctor tries to understand BUT unless I break something like a bone he will not cut loose with any hydrocodone and only gives me 20mg a day of Valium and you know that is not nearly enough. I am an alcoholic but quit in 1990 and have not had a drop since then. I have to rely on IOP's for most of my meds but shipping time can be frustrating. I have one IOP that I can give you the name of that runs about .70 cents (USD) per 10mg Valium (INCLUDING SHIPPING,200mg=around $150) and most times arrives in 8 to 14 days if have them ship with tracking and you have to sign for (USPS) shipping about $40. They do not carry hydrocodone. DO YOU HAVE someone for that?

In a way I'm lucky.. I'm a convincing guy. My scripts are always right. One doc. never any b.s. with the pharmacy.
From a medical point of view,, the hydro need would stand up in court.

can't really let go of info other than that. Also, I'm the kind of guy that can get things done. many times I accomplish things others would never stand a chance at pulling off.
I guess the good maker knew I would have this problem and gave me certain skills.

Best of luck.

Dude, one more thing... Hydro killed my desire for alcohol.
KILLED.

One more plus for hydro.

rpg ****

I don't even know you, yet you are on my mind. If you understood my first post then I know your suffering.

I'm sorry I can't say to much on a forum like this. And could not risk telling you things, sorry. (poppy tea)

But, what if I could no longer get hydro? Well, First I would do what I have done my whole life... I would make the best of it. There is a strange thing about what has happened to me in my life. As weak as i am in so many ways, it has made me strong in many others.

Again man, good luck. If I were a doctor i would mail you a script.

I've posted enough on this thread, but at the risk of boring everyone one more time, I think I'll do one more. I think we can all agree that depression and anxiety are diseases that affect people differently.Some experience it mildly and for a long duration,some extremely for a shorter duration,some it's debilitating,some can lead normal/productive lives with it,some can't get out of bed without medication,for some it disturbs sleep,some have committed suicide because of it. My point is as with any other disease, I believe each individual has the right to choose how much "better" they wish to feel and which method they choose should also be up to them. For example, I believe my Mom has had depression and anxiety her whole life but has chosen to live with it the best she can. She's always been anti-drug and a strong believer in "natural" medicine. She also found "joy" at an ealy age in Jesus Christ/christianity and has relied on diet and vitamins to help with her condition. My wife on the other hand, after "discovering" hydro (7.5 norco) prescribed for a neck injury she received after a car accident, dived head first in the opiate pool. She liked the AD properties and the "boost" she gets from them and before she knew it she was taking almost 10/day to satisfy her needs. Knowing what a generous person I am she started asking for my 10mg norcos when she ran out and to this day she has not learned to control her intake. We've been married several years and I know her well enough that she has no self control when it comes to drugs/alcohol. She is a true addict and has many issues from her past that she stiil needs to deal with in order to understand her need to escape from and/or cover up her feelings. She now has started taking xanax because to counteract the amount of hydro she takes and still drinks in combo with it which disturbs me a lot. I wish she'd give up drinking at all, but my preaching tends to fall on deaf ears most of the time. I know the importance of not becoming dependant on drugs/alcohol and force myself to take breaks a week at a time every couple months or so as to not addict myself to hydro. I lost my desire to drimk several years ago to which I credit the hydro because I usually drank to be less depressed, and the hydro seems to take care of that most of the time. I guess I'm kind of in the middle of my mom and my wife when it comes to the way I've chosen to "help" my self. For those of you depreesion/anxiety experts out there as I've stated in previous posts I have tried several other drugs,therapies to help my condition with no success.
Again I think the bottom line is if you're not hurting others or making your condition worse I believe in everyones' right to happiness. As I've stated before if I didn't have chronic pain from degenerative disc disease I would still most likely be seeking out hydrocodone to help with my depression and anxiety. Physical pain is horrible but for those few of you lucky enough to have not experienced chronic depression believe me it can be just as painful. I wish you all happiness and a pain free life.

I don't think Ive ever gone through opiate "withdrawls". At what level must one consume or embibe in opiate consumption to have withdrawl(s) occur? I may take between 3-5, hydro 10/325 in a day, but then take a few days off. Im sure withdrawl thresholds vary from person to person, but is there a general rule of thumb, days of consumption, amounts consumed, etc., to keep in mind when taking an opiate based med? The worst I've felt is maybe a little crabby, or moody, if Ive gone 3-4 days in a row when taking hydros, then stopping. Thanks for your time!

go 2 weeks straight when taking 4 -5 per day, and "a little crabby" will be the least of your problems. Go for a month or 2 at that dose and you will understand suicide. Real opiate withdrawels cause strokes, heart attacks and behavior that you did not know you were capable of. once they start, you will lie, steal and do just about anything to stop it. its like dying in pain, both physical and emotional. depression enters the withdrawel process pretty early on.

see it like this....for EVERY pain free moment or minute of a "high" there will be a day of pure he11 to live thru if you consume long enough to accuire the physical dependence. it does not take that much for it to "get away" from you. Self control is the first thing that you sacrifice. self esteem is next. you end up getting that from the pill. no pills, and depression hits you in the face in a matter of hours.

You have no idea what kind of monster you are flirting with.

if you've taken a few days off without WDs after months of continual use at 30-50mg per day, you're pretty much good to go. WDs kick in within 24 hrs.

i have been at 6 X 10/325 per day for 2 1/2 years. i am tapering off 5mg every 7 days and am now down to 3 X 10/325 per day. the first 30mg was much easier than the last 30mg will be. i have a herniated bulging disc and need them but it's just not worth all the BS with the new law. these A-holes who passed the law have no idea what it's like to live your life in pain. all because some idiot kid OD on something he ordered off the internet. now millions of us have to suffer forever more.

Will you please explain "new law" I'm in the dark about it.

Thanks.

I believe that your wife's experience is the norm for people who think they can self-medicate their depression away with narcotics. For some, it takes much longer to reach her stage but you'll get there eventually.
But then, you will continue to think you are unique until that time.

Ive been dealing with opiates and w/ds for 12 years now that seriously, I barely even get w/d's anymore. I find this to be very odd. Used to be, Id come off of norcos after a few months and have the $hits, cramps, chills, big pupils, etc. Now, (and I definitely dont take nearly as much as I used to) the most i will get in the form of w/d is sneezing. Thats all. I think my body just got used to w/ds so theyre not a huge deal anymore. I wonder if thats a good thing, lol.

Martind, I'm assuming this was directed at my last post,and again I respect your observation but don't totally agree with it. I posted it not just to reveal info about my personal situation, but more importantly to offer an example of how people that suffer from depression and anxiety deal with their affliction. Like I stated there are various "degrees" or types of this disease just like there are "stages" of cancer. Chronic pain sufferers like myself have discovered that the opiates we take to relieve the physical pain often help alleviate depression/anxiety as well. I'm not talking about the depression that is directly caused by the physical pain itself, but ppl like myself who already suffered from it many years before finding opiates.

I also don't feel I'm "unique". I think I stated enough previously that I'm not one of those that has never experienced horrible withdrawls from quitting hydro,etc., after taking them for a long period of time. I experienced the withdrawls the first time I ran out early due to my generosity with my wife and this was after a year or so of daily intake of 30-40mg's of norco. For those who have never experienced withdrawals I hope you never will for as stated and decribed in detail many times on this site, the withdrawls are "very unpleasant" not to mention feeling the awful pain from the physical condition that never went away but was just relieved by opiates. Since that episode I learned the importance of monitoring my intake and taking occasional "breaks" from it.I know for some or even most with chronic pain this is very hard to do but for me it's necessary so as not to become totally dependant on it.It also means saying NO to my wife and if you knew me like she does, you'd know how hard it is for me to say "no", especially to someone I love.

Anyway, to summarize one more time, I believe that we who suffer with chronic pain,whether physical snd/or mental,should have the right to alleviate it by using drugs,alcohol,excercise,religion,sex,gambling,watching tv/movies,music,etc.,or any combination of these. As long as we're not hurting others in the process and willing to suffer any consequences of our actions. This is my belief and I'm stickin to it.

Rocker, I agree, and sometimes people who don't suffer with very painful chronic pain don't always understand (not pointing at you Martin- love ya man!).

I fight this fight within my very family. It's pretty ironic to hear a 20 year old say 'Why don't you just stop taking them and learn to live with the pain?". That's after 15 years of tests, 5 specialists, pain management clinics, shots, epidurals, nerve burning procedures, and many rounds of physical therapy.

People without chronic pain will never understand and we can never make them understand what we go through. And of course we feel better and aren't as depressed when we take medicine! The pain subsides and you feel better- seems pretty cut and dry to me. But nooooo....I have to deal with people telling me to go 2,000 miles away to find other specialists that cost $100,000 to see if they can fix me. Well perhaps those people would like to pay those costs? And since 5 specialists have said I can't be fixed, what's the point? So that 6 specialists say they can't fix me?

Withdrawal sucks too. I've had to go through that. I hope to never have to do that again. There wasn't enough Kratom and Ultram on this earth to help me when the doctors had me on massive amounts of a very heavy duty medicine.

Vicodin couldn't even touch my pain unfortunately, so ROPs couldn't help much even if they stayed around.

I'm with you that as long as I'm not hurting anyone else and I'm simply trying to survive each and every day, whatever I do to help achieve that should be my business. I don't drink, but I tell you, there are times that I wish I did! Don't gamble either (I'd rather spend the money on clothes, purses, shopping, etc. lol) but I'm all for everything else on the list!

One question I have for those reading this thread. Do you have a lot of anxiety? I've found that over the last 6-8 years that my anxiety has steadily risen to the point that I really don't like to leave the house. Does anxiety come with chronic pain, does it come with the use of opiate medicine to help with the pain, or am I just weird and unique? I'm getting older and have grandkids and I've had to give speeches before without too much stage fright. Now I start to feel freaked out after an hour at the mall and all the crowds and pushing and long lines. Is it just me?

Start here: http://www.govtech.com/gt/419355

Me 2 but our "rights" are up for interpretation. In the not too distant future, we may have someone deciding how long we live..

You know.. this is off topic? But I was just thinking.. Trust me it's what I do!

Hyrdo must be very hard to synthesize. That guy "rhoduim" has done it and wrote a review, I can't cite (don't remember).

BUT... With the anount of cash that one could make... Surley, lets say that the average person with a phd in organic chem could not make it?

example, two makers malli and qualitest... I KNOW which is better. Night and day difference. Why?

I remember my Cuz works at Mcdonalds in the 80's, he brought home a bag of chicken nuggets from the Actual freezer... We fried them... Not even close to the same
taste... And they came right out of the freezer at mcdonalds!

Then (correct if wrong) I think it was Hitlers crew that first made hydro. hooked oxygen atom to codenie molecule.
EARLY 1900's.... So can it be that hard?

I can't spell, and my mind thinks all the time about ANY and EVERY thing... can't help it.

Any thoughts?

Lynx, To answer your question yes I do have anxiety,but I've had it most of my life,long before I was first prescribed hydrocodone. I've been diagnosed with GAD (general anxiety disorder),SAD (social anxiety disorder),and dysphoria or mild depression. Since I can remember I've always hated being in or around large crowds and speaking publicly or even privately most of the time. I especially hate malls, and if not for hydrocodone and having a job to go to most days I'd probably stay at home all the time. What's sad is that a lot of people go their entire lives without first being diagnosed with these conditions and secondly taking medication to alleviate it. At the risk of sounding corny, I truly believe our world would be a lot nicer and safer place to live in if more people that suffer from depression/anxiety would do more to help themselves and quit inflicting their own frustration and unhappiness on the rest of us. I'm wishing I had discovered hydro 40 years ago and hadn't put my parents,family,friends,coworkers,through living hell all those years due to my misery and unhappiness.

At the risk of making a bad analogy, I really think the "addiction" arguement against taking opiates like hydrocodone,oxycodone,etc., is kind of like saying those who eat chocolate every day because it makes them happier are evil addicts and destroying their lives. Sure it may cause some to gain weight, have higher blood sugar,or complexion problems, but all in all, a fairly harmless indulgance. IMHO, the same goes for hydrocodone,except for the cost,(it's a little more expensive) and possibly liver damage after a long time of use, although I still haven't seen any hard evidence of this. This is my belief and I'm stickin to it.

Everyone is different - yes, some will go to any length to get the medication they want/need but others just make do. There has been a few times where I was unprepared and ending up in full-blown withdrawal. Was I uncomfortable? Very much so but I did not resort to lying or stealing nor did I contemplate suicide. I just toughed it out like most others do when in the same situation.

I agree with you. And in many ways I am in the same condition as you. Whatever the heck is wrong with me, in many ways, destroied my life long before I took a pill or had a drink. I was only a child.

But when it comes to conditions such as ours you will find little sympathy or understanding.

Now, if you ate so much that they had to cut your house apart to get yer fat azz to the hospital... You would have a free "medical team" and get paid by the discovery chanel.
You would have a team of "sympathizers."

You find hydro and it is more help than anything. AND if anyone felt as we did they would take a bulldozier to the drugstore to get it.... I know....

BUT the simple truth is, "they" dont give a f***. It's not their fault, because they cannot understand. They can SEE the "obeast." But they can't SEE how we feel.

Chocolate is at any store. Hydro requires a little more effort. DIG DOWN DEEP! I DO WHAT I HAVE TOO.. I wish you all the best and hope you can do the same.

Rocker although I disagree with you that hydro should be used to treat depression, I do believe that it is your right to seek whatever it is that makes you happy and able to live a normal life. I don't think you need to even justify yourself. May I ask what you plan to do in April? Are you going to be able to get this from a local doctor? I sure hope so.

RJ

RJ, like many others I don't really have a plan as of yet. And like many of the people that use this site the main reason I have to go the OCS route is due to finding a sympathetic doctor in my area who will prescribe me the amount and strength of hydro that I need to function "normally".

I have tried a pain management clinic but all they wanted to do were injections, which didn't thrill me since I have a fear of needles, and prescribe methadone,ms contin,and fentanyl, all of which I tried with no success. Hopefully, my OCS will have a F2F plan in effect by then with a doctor in my state. Other than that I'm hoping my last 2 refills are good with them, and pray that another teenager doesn't decide to OD on drugs purchased over the internet with his parents' credit card!

What I mean was NOT able to find a...

That's why I don't take them every day. I do have chronic back pain, due to long periods of time spent sitting at my desk & computer, as well as a lingering lower disc injury, but I purposely take "days off" as to keep my tolerance low & prevent withdrawls. I use massage therapy & excercise as preventitive measures as well. There's also this practice known as "discipline" which Im fortunate enough to utilize -due to the fact my pain isn't so bad I "need" meds every day. I appreciate your feedback. I will use discipline & precaution when taking meds and hopefully never suffer from the sceneario(s) you described. I don't believe in the term commonly referred to as "addiction", but instead think of the addiction as a commonly misused, physiological metaphor for "bad habit". Thanks, and be well!

ahhhhhh....I sat in my hot tub with my 9 year old and her friend last night....Just old ebough to act properly and be good company. Besides, the hot tub wasnt too bad on all my aches and pains either (the ones the kids caused)