I notice the doctor map hasn't been updated since April.
The dr. finding process seems to be very slow. I have pretty much given up on them getting one in Louisiana. Every clinic I see has a sign on the door that says "We do not treat chronic pain, don't even ask"!
The doctors here have been the DEA scare.
So I have pretty much given up hope of NNCIP ever getting a doctor in La.

I notice that the Florida dr. offers Oriental type treatment (acupuncture?) and no charge for first consult. You can fly from any state. Now why would anyone do that when there are Oriental doctors in just about every city in America. That to me seems very strange. Plus Florida has pain clinics just about everywhere.

So I have given up on NNCIP.

 Originally Posted By: Dennit

another worry - even if a patient does it honorably thru nncip, what's to stop that patient from sending all his friends to the same doctor without the involvement of nncip? a few bugs to be worked out if nncip is going to stay in business and this mode can work in the future.

You must have missed this post by NNCIP, a few posts above yours:

"The doctors will not treat patients who have gone around NNCIP to see them, because, the doctors have expressed how much they enjoy the Network, and would not want to jepordize the relationship that they have built with our team.

We also have preventative measures to keep such things from happening once we have provided the Patient with the Doctor's name." [/quote]

Uh huh...yeah right. Pardon my cynicsm but all doctors are running a BUSINESS. Even my PCP doesn't refer to his operation as a "practice". They are in it to help people for sure, but the money is important to them too. Been around the block and know this to be true. Went on Sub for a time just to see if it actually helped my pain (seemed to for awhile but in the end I have too many severe pain problems for it) and wanted to get off the OCS merry-go-round for awhile. The doctor was cash only, had his hand out as soon as I sat down, charged 350.00 for the 1st 15 min. visit, and 150.00 for the rest, had to see him every 2-3 weeks and even told me if I had any friends who "wanted to try Sub" he would give me 20.00 off the visits. Around here, most sub docs, 99% of the psychiatrists, accupuncturists, 75% of chiropractors, 99% of certified massage therapists don't take insurance and want cash only, upfront. One doctor for my kid actually charged us 150.00 to call to see how his meds were working out!

My guess is these docs are going to look the other way if the patient circumvents the system. Another problem is that when--not if--the DEA finds out that the internet is involved and a "service" is taking money every month on top of the physician's fee, for simply providing the name of a doctor who will prescribe narcotics, bye bye Doctor so and so. If any doctor is not a PM specialist and writes above average controlled substances prescriptions, he/she is going to get on the radar. The national average is about 11% I believe.

Everyone....if you have a real medical condition that requires narcotics, you WILL get them from a pain management doctor generally. If you need them and one doctor refuses, go to another. You are entitled to relief and any PM doc worth his/her salt will write for what you need. Sure, it may take some time to get on board. You may have to go through testing such as MRI's, CT scans, blood work. You may have to sign a contract, agree to random urine screens, bring in med bottles for counting if asked, sign a contract. A PITA for sure but it's worth it in the end. I pay 30.00 for my monthly visit. I am on 4 different controlled medications but pay less than 85.00 per month for them. No shipping. No waiting. No fear of the OCS closing down and losing refills or worse a call from the alphas. Bottom line--No more worries. PLUS you are getting the care you need and deserve. Also, you are not limited to C3s or 90 or 120 counts. Of course this won't work for rec users or people who are addicted. Not saying most people who use an OCS are but unfortunately it does happen.

Please, no flaming. Not trying to judge this service as I know nothing about them. Not judging anyone who uses any service. Just some advice as it's getting harder and harder to find a dependable service and IMO within a couple of years at most, when that Ryan Haight bill is passed, people are going to be out of luck. Really...I think most PM docs are compassionate people and really want to relieve suffering. It's not as scary as you think. I was totally honest with my PM doc and told them what I had been prescribed, what worked, what didn't. I even listed meds I was taking from old scripts. They didn't grill me on who prescribed them, how old, etc...If you really need controlled meds, you will get them. It's not as easy as using a service but the good points really do outweigh the bad. I just wish I had trusted my family doctor enough years ago. I made what I thought would be the hardest appt I'd ever had to go through to pour my heart out to him about my pain and what I was really going through. His immdiate response was that I was a good person who didn't deserve this and he pulled out his script pad and wrote for enough norco to get me through until I could see the PM doc he referred me to. He even would call me after hours on his cell phone while driving home to check on me from time to time. It's also nice to be able to hand my pharmacist my prescriptions from the PM doc and be treated with dignity.

Just a thought or two.

you make alot of good points. especially about dr.'s practices being a for profit interprise. but either you have an exceptional pm dr. or your relationship with him has been a long one and you have forgotten all the shots and other options they almost allways want you to try , so that they can prescribe meds and not be seen as only prescribing meds. the pm dr. i had seen in the interim period from dealing with OCS''s and starting with nncip was the most expensive dr. visits i have ever had, my insurance didn't pay a nickel of the cost of the epidural shots, the facet point injections or the tins machine that i indured. the cost made an OCS look cheap in comparison. i finally had to recuse myself from the pain contract with the local pm dr. and started with nncip which is lees expensive ten-fold. now i recieve the meds that work and have real face 2 face relationship with the nncip dr. and he is a caring and attentive dr who doesn't give me the feeling i'm another number in line for his profit generation machine.

things are different for everyone , personally i have been around the block with all the ways of obtaining relief for chronic pain condition and i find nncip's concept to be one that address'es the problem without useless and overly expensive procedures that do little to no good for the patient.

i'm not knocking anyone's message and their individual experiences, but i have found nncip to be what i need and hope that thier concept last a long time. personally i wouldn't even think of going around their sysytem as that in itself would be a sign to the dr. that i wasn't just a chronic pain person but a " seeker" and all dr.'s are on the look out for that behaviour. for people like myself i see no need to subrogate a system that works.

53chevy

Hi Barelythere,



Sadly, I believe that skepticism has developed among may because we've been dealing with OCS owners with one name, just a nickname or the same person using several names.

Few go through all that schooling to become Doctors without the expectation that they will have a comfortable lifestyle. That in itself doesn't mean they have no honor and will risk a reputation that may have taken decades to develop.

While I've dealt with some fine, brave OCS Doctors in the past, the industry has also been known to attract Doctors with little to lose in terms of reputation and ethics. Some Doctors have integrity and those are the Doctors whom NNCIP is contracting with.

For that matter, I've met some real crooks in the strictly brick and mortar world of medicine.

-----

NNCIP, although it has one staff member who worked in the OCS world is *not* an OCS by a long shot. In fact, I've had several conversations with one of the Directors of NNCIP and he had barely a clue what an OCS was. I tried to give the kindest description I could manage as far as describing how the process worked.

As the OP whose question you were addressing who asked "even if a patient does it honorably thru nncip, what's to stop that patient from sending all his friends to the same doctor without the involvement of nncip?"

1) There would be nothing "honorable" about a patient who would send all his friends to the Doctor.

2) The Doctor wants to know that patients have been vetted through NNCIP, is already in possession and has studied the patient's records in detail before each appointment. How would this "honorable" patient and his friends get around that one?

-----



Maybe that happens at pill mills that expect to last for only a year or so, but Doctors with fixed decades old practices generally don't do dishonor signed contracts. The Doctors contracted by NNCIP are not faceless voices calling from cell phones, nor do they have a bevy of P/A's doing what we've called "consults". P/A's can only assist under the tightest of circumstances.



1) The internet has an eventual place in helping to manage medicine care. The problem up until now is that few OCS's had any long term business plans. My Doctor at NNCIP could hardly be called an "Internet Doctor". AFAIK, he doesn't know how to use email, much less any other aspect of internet technology.

Any given NNCIP Doctor does not and will not have an overload of patients prescribing narcotics. NNCIP patients represent a proportion of likely at or below that national average.

As far a "bye bye Doctor so and so", that seems to be much more prevalent for Pain Management Doctors from my reading here and on the DEA "Cases Against Doctors" pages.

------

If anything, NNCIP is trying to get back to the way medicine used to be practiced. Sole practitioners who treated a variety of patients from toddlers who need 4 stitches in their heads, the elderly and their chronic conditions and some patients with genuine pain issues. Going back 20-30 years or so that's about the way medicine worked. Doctors honored their oath to treat, could explain their decisions since NNCIP patients have a proven issue that is causing a life of misery as evinced by a long history detailed in CAT Scans, X-Rays, EMGs, surgical consults, blood tests and very apparent just by appearance.

I pay the Doctor no money and there is no guarantee that I am going to receive a prescription for a Scheduled pain medication. That's the same chance I've taken with 1/2 dozen other Doctors that I've seen who attempted to ignore pain issues or referred me to what was essentially useless pain management.

I went to a major teaching hospital's Pain Management Center since I've often read it's helpful to talk to a patient in the waiting room to see how they are treated. He was being given Neurotonin which wasn't helping his pain at all. When he came out, he says to me "I don't understand these Doctors. When I told him the Neurotonin was useless, he doubled the dose and gave me an anti-seizure medicine. I've never had a seizure in my life. I don't get it". I didn't have the heart to tell him..... The PM Doctor also gave him an appointment with a psychiatrist to "learn how to live with the pain".

------

With NNCIP, I also must attend physical therapy and deal with other aspects of my health for the Doctor to continue treating me. The Doctor is a real nag, BTW In fact, the Doctor called my PCP while I was there, not to "check me out", but to question one medication that I'm taking for Muscular Dystrophy that may not be needed anymore. In fact, I asked my PCP that same question during my last PCP consult and he yelled, "You'll be on that for life" as he concluded his 45 second consult.

Before visiting NNCIP, be sure to wear clean undergarments

While I received 4 prescriptions during my last visit, only 2 were related to pain issues. I have other medical problems which the Doctor was equally concerned with.

If anything, NNCIP's goal (and they are fast achieving it) is to deal with the overall health of the patient.

I believe NNCIP will be a well known name in the not-so-distant future and not on the DEA web site.

They are literally the first ones trying to do this right, creating a National Network for our vast aging population (and some unfortunate young folks) that NNCIP's founders and grandchildren will someday run.

------
The biggest misconceptions that people are under, IMO:

NNCIP is *not* an OCS.

Their Doctors are not "Internet Doctors". I'm welcome to visit my Doctor anytime that I wish. When refill time came, I had a l-o-n-g conversation with the Doctor where he asked a lot of questions probed with "Are you sure you're doing it?", etc. The NNCIP website is a minimal, near useless component of their operation once you are already seeing a Doctor.

Depending on your condition and the discretion of the Doctor, you may be visiting the Doctor more than once a year. NNCIP is *not* trying to barely pass through the face-to-face requirement we keep hearing about.

DrugBuyers members do not make up a majority of their patients. I don't believe there is one reference to this site on nncip.com -- NNCIP gets many patients through other venues.

NNCIP Doctors are not exclusively Pain Management Doctors, though the Doctors that I've checked on mostly had a primary, though usually secondary specialty in some pain management/pain medicine discipline. However, it's quite clear that does not constitute their typical patient.

You don't walk in and cry and moan about pain and walk out with your Rx. Instead the Doctors spend well over an hour examining every part of me (almost, anyway). More important, the Doctor listens to your entire history, something I'm thoroughly unaccustomed to!

------

Due to distance issues, I have seen two NNCIP Doctors so far. Needless to say I was not charged for the second, closer visit.

While insurance coverage is likely to be in NNCIP's future, I'm paying less in a year than I did for my wife to try a new GYN Doctor. This GYN refused all insurance and insisted on doing his own CAT Scan in his office even though her previous GYN had performed one just 3 weeks earlier. The GYN Doctor says he prefers to do his own.... Needless to say, our insurance company said no way to that one since there was no compelling need for the second CAT Scan!

----

If anything, NNCIP is taking us toward the future as well as back to the past. I say the future because they are offering Doctors willing to treat some Chronic Pain patients the aegis of operating under a National Organization, albeit, a for-profit one.

Everyone I've spoken with or corresponded with at NNCIP is articulate and educated with medical administrative backgrounds, unlike the single name folks who pop up with OCS's (which admittedly I've benefited from in the past) who can't write a 3 sentence email with proper grammar and spelling.

Again, NNCIP is taking us back to the past when a Doctor made decisions about treatment, unconstrained by Group Practice Rules ("We have a policy of never prescribing more than 20", etc.).

I'm also being taken far more seriously by the other Doctors that I need to see for other ailments. No awkward explanations of how I get my pain medication. "What do you do? Buy 'splits of Vikes' on the street?” I was asked once.

Even though my NNCIP Doctor only reached my (self-professed non-prescribing) PCP's answering machine when he called, I was proud that he learned that a Doctor had the guts not to ignore my obvious pain issues.

It costs nothing to sign up with NNCIP even if they are not in your state yet. That way you'll get an email as soon as your state goes "green". Easier than checking for a tracking # 100 times a day!

JMHO,

patient2all

P2all,
I love reading your posts. You write very well. I wish that NNCIP had a Dr. in my area in TX, but at this time they do not. Dallas is nearly a 7 hour drive for me. I hope that in the future though that they will begin finding Drs in the smaller areas as well as the huge cities. I appreciate that you have showed us just exactly what to expect if any of us DO decide to go with NNCIP. I know that I am convinced this will be the wave of the future. At least I hope it is.

Littlered -
I thought the one in Dallas closed? No?

I have no idea. I havent been to the site to check in a while. As far as I know it is still running. Are you in the Dallas area?

yes they have a dr. in the general area of dallas. he seems very professional and also understanding of people with chronic pain issues. i highly recommend nncip service as it has worked great for me personally

I couldn’t agree with 53 chevy more. I actually see my doctor in her own practice as part of my treatment plan; she has been very helpful to me. I don't just get charged the $99.00 dollars every month and get #120 pills of Hydrocodone. She suggested another medication that has been much better for me so I don't even fall into that category.
These doctors are doing much more then just prescribing meds every month. I feel that I am taken care of as a whole person. Like others have reported, it is also very comforting to have a "real" PM doctor and not just someone who talks to you via the phone every three months.

I can't speak for others and everyone’s experiences are different, but for me it works, I highly recommend this service if there is a doctor in your area.

Speaking of calling, 53Chevy, my Doctor calls each month about a week before he sends out a refill Rx. He is a very real Doctor in every way and is interested, very interested in every health issue I have.

In fact there is someone who better restart Physical Therapy real quick or get read the riot act! The Doctor is not gruff or mean about it, but truly concerned.

The Doctor thinks I can have a better quality of life. And I believe him.

------

OTOH, my PCP said "At your age and in your condition, you have to expect to be in pain!" The irony is that my PCP is just willing to ignore medical conditions. It's not like I'm overweight or have a poor diet or anything I can help, just got dealt a bad deck of cards.

Except of course the cigarette smoking, something I don't think my PCP ever asked about in his 2 minute consults.

------

The NNCIP Doctor has me on the Nicotrol Inhaler.

-----

Oh, and thanks Littlered363. I keep thinking my level of literacy is going downhill as I age....

patient2all

I am interested in the doctor for the Georgia area. Any recent feedback from those that have used the doctor in the Atlanta area.

Has anyone had any experience with the Elizabeth, NJ doctor? I have an appt. on Monday and was wondering if anyone has tried them yet. Let me know your experience. Thanks.

If I am going to get a face to face consultation I don't want to have to keep having online consultations as follow ups. Doctors that you see in person are not going to charge you every time you get a script.

Man screw the DEA...seriouslly

I called NNCIP today, filled out & faxed all that they require and was treated promptly & professionally! (A BIG HUG AND THANKS TO YOU, MY FRIEND PAT2ALL!!)

Although there is only 1 Doctor so far in NJ, his office is only 1 1/2 hrs away from my home. I have my first face-to-face appt with him this Friday, as that is my day off from work. Will keep you all posted on how goes.

Peace,

Julz

Can anyone tell me if the NNCIP doctor in New york is a pain management specialist who can do nerve blocks?

Dear posters,

Has anyone seen an MD from this group in New York? I just returned from my GP who has been treating my CP from 4 bad discs and a bum knee for years.

Unfortunately, I am getting out of shape and need to hit the bike and treadmill, but the Hydro he prescribes doesn't cut it for that excessive exercise. I am soon to be a borderline diabetic and hypertensive if I don't drop 20-30 pounds.

So I went to GP and asked for 20mg time release oxy's #60 which I had taken years before when seeing a neuro and GP said "I don't prescribe that, see a PM doctor". He gave me a name and, of course, they were closed at 3PM on a Thursday. Previously I have seen 3 PM doctors and they have all stunk. Epidurals, useless PT, etc.

So, I am wondering if it is worth a trip to the NY NNCIP doctor to see if I can get the 20mg oxy's I want or if I would be wasting my time if NNCIP docs only give scripts for hydro and other Sch III's

Thanks in advance for any insight.

I am in PA and emailed the Nncip site, and they got back to me right away...Because of my location, she said I could see the doctor in Elizabeth, NJ...I know someone had asked about that doctor in Sept., but there was no reply...Just wondering if anyone has seen that doctor recently and how it went..

Thanks!

I just got back from my F2F with the Dr. in Elizabeth, NJ.
VERY DISAPPOINTING! First off, I did not even see the Dr. I was scheduled with. The office itself is dirty and smells like a vet's office. Although the Dr. I did end up seeing did give me an Rx, he basically told me that he cannot help me, and to go BACK to my OBGYN to get a hysterectomy!!!! All this after explaining my YEARS of "Reproductive System NIGHTMARES" and stressing the fact that I DO NOT WANT MY REPRODUCTIVE ORGANS SURGICALLY REMOVED, TYVM!!! Perhaps I should've asked him how HE would feel if HIS Dr. told him to go have his B*LLS chopped off!
Sorry, folks, but after 3 hours of traveling and getting the bum rush, I am a BIT ticked off!!!

Peace,
Julz

I am SORRY Julz. That stinks. When you say he did give you an rx, was it just one month or did u at least get some refills until you can make other arrangements?

Sorry again, not what you want to have happen after all the leg work!

Best of Luck!

I am sorry as well Julz! Although I am not a participant of NNCIP, from the reviews I have read so far on some of these doctors, who are "hired" so to speak, to deal with patients coming there for pain issues, it seems like some of them treat you as though you are some Joe off the street, looking for pain meds. For many, this is the last resort, and if the doctor agrees to be in this kind of network, there should be more of a willingness and understanding towards prescribing.

Thank You for your responses and concern. To answer the 1st question, the Dr. gave me #60 Vicoprofen with -0- refills. His words to me were, "We treat patients here who have no other alternatives. I am referring you back to your OBGYN for a hysterectomy."

I DID call NNCIP when I got home & spoke to Kalee. I told her everything that went on, and she apologized profusely. She told me that there are MANY people with chronic pain who choose NOT to have surgery-whether it be spinal surgery, leg, arm, etc. I explained to her that I am in the same boat-the ONLY difference is that my pain is in my abdomen-caused by Endometriosis and Cervical Stenosis. Is it not our rights, as patients, to decide whether we want parts of our bodies surgically removed?!! She agreed wholeheartedly and said she would forward my complaint to her supervisor. Will see what happens.

In answer to Daniel's response, YES-I felt like I was treated like a common criminal-looking for drugs on the street. If I chose to do that, I wouldn't have to bother getting my medical records together and travel hours from my home, now would I? In fact, when the nurse today took my BP, she asked me what I was there for. When I told her my medical condition, she sort of "Harrumphed" me and mumbled, "You're here 'cause you have CRAMPS?" I don't wish my CRAMPS or my rotten Reproductive System on ANYONE!

If I wanted to have a hysterectomy, I would get it over with. Am I wrong to not want this surgery???

Oh, and one more thing I would like to mention. When I spoke with Kalee at NNCIP, I asked her WHO peruses the medical records when they are faxed to NNCIP. She told me that they, (NNCIP,) basically forward them to the Dr's. office. The Dr.'s office is THEN supposed to review them and APPROVE the F2F Consultation visit. I asked her why then, if this Dr. had no intention of treating me properly, was my time and $ wasted? She agreed that, if the Dr. had no intention on seeing me after today, he should have denied my initial visit/appointment in the 1st place.
I sure hope that they are not doing this to many others. Seems to me that, if this is the case, they are getting $300 for writing a $20 script. Nice.

Peace,
Julz

I have only gone back a couple pages, so forgive me if this has been answered. Has anyone had any recent experiences w/ the AZ doctor? It looks as if I am in the range to where I can utilize this service.

Aw, Julz, that's terrible. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I finally ended up having a hysterectomy because I couldn't handly MY "cramps" any longer. I know what you're going through.

Julz, please forgive me if I am stepping out of bounds.

This is my opinion only and I am certainly not a medical expert.

IF you have had the children you want AND you suffer with endometriosis (as I did), then the surgery is not such a bad thing. Now-a-days it is much less invasive then it once was. I have a foot long "bikini" scar. AND if ovaries remain, there is no hormonal issues. You simply will not have a period and you will no longer suffer.

Think about it. Surgery is nothing to trifle with, but neither is taking narcotic meds for extended periods. IF I could rid myself of all the pain and suffering by doing a surgical procedure, I'd do it in a NY minute. You can. Think about it.

And, again, please forgive me if I have overstepped your boundaries. And, BTW, (LOL) I have never, ever missed the durn thing.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! And my 2009 be kind to you.

Julz I too didn't want the surgery and suffered with endo for 15 years just to get past my childbearing years, you know just in case my clock started ticking.
I finally gave in and had the surgery. It wasn't easy but in retrospect it was the best thing I ever did for myself. I look back and think of all the life I missed out of because I didn't believe in the surgery.
For female issues of this nature go to http://www.hystersisters.com. That site answered a lot of questions for me including alternatives to surgery. I got a lot of support there as well from the members.
Hope this isn't hijacking the thread I am following feedback on NNCIP as an alternative to my OCS going through some hard times and F2F will be the way to go.
I am closest to the NJ doctor and am sorry to hear of your bad experience. I wonder if there is a NY doctor. I appreciate your feedback on your doctor visit.

Take care and happy New Year to everyone.

Has anyone been to the Dr in Birmingham AL yet? If so how did everything go? Thanks for any info.

Hello,

I'm in Northern Texas. I was thinking about using this service. I have a chronic eye condition that is very painful and causes periodic blindness. Most doctors don't seem to understand. I normally bring in documentation explaining what it is etc. I sometimes have to go to the ER. There's nothing and ophthalmologist can do for me. My primary care doctor doesn't really believe in pain management and pushes steroids. I am fully disabled because of this.

Just wanted some feedback on if I should try the doctors here in Texas and what to expect.

Thanks so much for all your help!

I only have one question: Does this place service neighboring state patients? Specifically, will the Arizona doctor prescribe to out of staters?