Partially because I don't want to take codeine w/large amounts of apap which is what you get in the U.S.-- Sources for pure codeine phosphate without the pitfalls; e.g. too large amount minimums from certain vendors going through customs or ultra expensive sources who are always out of stock are all that seem to be left- and those are few and far between. Bottom line.. reliable sources are becoming exceedingly more difficult to find.

Before you congratulate me, I will say thanks and let you know I caved and took my regular dose after writing earlier.

Be well, all.

Bren

You know you can talk to us any time you like, and we'll all be behind you. I think a very gradual reduction would be easier.

Thanks nephro.

I have a feeling in the coming days I'll need all of your support. That's one of the things I love about this community. In the meantime I shall try the gradual reduction and see how it goes - which will require more meds on hand to execute this approach.

I ordered some DLPA to use as a supplement, hoping that might help too.

I havent read through the entire thread but Brenlee, I can say the DLPA does help. I wasnt a big cheerleader for alternative meds but when pain hits, I'll try anything. I took a fairly large dose the 1st 2 weeks & now on 750mg three times daily. There are a lot of threads on the DLPA so I wont hijack this one. PM me if you have any questions about it. There is another poster that was really informative about its dosing.

I agree. DLPA is like a minor miracle. Gives you energy also.

Wow! Thanks for your support guys!

I'm getting on very well with 1000 mgs split approx 6 hours apart. Much gratitude to those who shared their experience w/ DLPA. Whether real or placebo effect, which I highly doubt, it seemed to help right off the bat.

Thanks to a little help from my friends, (Yo, Joe Cocker!) .. I've begun the slow taper from codeine. As many have repeatedly read- a healthy diet and especially exercise has been a monumental key to managing depression for me so far. I'm giving myself time and a little more TLC than usual. I've always taken pride in engaging in healthy activities (such as biking when weather is decent and I used to be a runner). I lost touch with some of my good habits, exercise being high on the list. Now I realize how much I miss those little endorphins.

As corny as it sounds and, due to limited in-home space and lack of desire to do the whole gym scene with any real commitment, I've started with an EZ Gym. (EZ search too). The contraption attaches to a regular height door and this little ditty provides a surprisingly wide variety of resistance/cardio whole-body workouts. There are 3 weight adjustments - right now I'm at level 2. Sure I was skeptical this would be a wimpy little gadget with a wimpy little workout. Quite the contrary. I realize many are in debilitating pain or unable to do much physical activity, though there should be something to compensate. Also, vanity issues ( don't know why I should feel shame to admit this ) since always trying to look my best provides a boost. It's been very helpful to diverting negative thinking and placing more focus on all for which I'm truly grateful. Which leads me to avoidance..

I'll try to be more proactive in helping others... although right now one impediment of reading through your personal stories of dependence and depression reminds me of my own dark slump (although seemingly small compared to many of you).. which only makes me dwell more on my own depression dregs (but also reinforces how lucky I am compared to many) I've always lived and passionately believe the philosophy of 'knowledge is power.' While reading personal stories of struggles is a bit different. There's more of "boy I can relate" element, reminding me of my own uphill battle. ( I guess this is a case where misery doesn't love company at this phase of my urge for freedom from the opiates). Though I hope to be past that point soon and claim the spirit of reaching out and offering support to others. I'll get there. In the meantime I can offer these suggestion, albeit redundant to other posters - (a) research the natural supplements you need and don't overdo those either (b) adopt a good diet (c) if you are physically able.. a decent amount of physical activity - i.e. a good workout - if not daily, 4-5x a week for at least 30 minutes to start and (d) Possibly most powerful and allowing for personal empowerment ( talk about gratifying) - a considerable amount of faith in your own abilities to overcome (e) Ask for help. There's no shame. It shows great strength. People need people.

Thank you all for being here. Because of this forum I owe a lot of gratitude and will reciprocate any way I can. That's a promise.

Continue to wish me luck. I'll hold good thoughts for all of you.. with any and all brands of suffering/personal struggles.

Much gratitude. Bren

Oh bugger above! Hate it when I ramble.

Too wordy, typos galore, lacking clear communication. None-the-less, the sentiment remains.

The taper is slow. I've gone down to 100 mgs. daily-- adding 1000 mgs of DLPA in 2 separate doses of 500 mgs. I'm using the perds I have left, then will taper slowly with codes (which I'm low on though expecting a shipment soon.) I'm hoping to be at 60 mgs daily within the next few weeks and decrease from there.

iris- so pleased to hear DLPA is working GREAT for you! Same for you O&W! I found a long thread on DLPA and have it bookmarked for reference. I can only critique one side effect from the supplement - a slightly 'spacey- disconnected' feeling. Oh! And sometimes I become a little jittery, not bad though. I would compare it to taking too much Ginseng. Hence I may go down to 500 mgs.

This is where I am today.

Bren

Hey Bren. This is may sound strange, but sice youare on the perds right now, I would sitck with them by breaking them for your taper versus switching to codesian. The codesians are instant release, and thats a whole different ballgame than you have with the perds that are slowly releasing a little at a time.

Good luck.

I never heard of this stuff before. I am going to look into it.
Thnaks guys.

Bren,
I know you must have many friends here and I hope you consider me among them. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help you.

I have had my little battles with addiction but in most cases I seem to just get over it. My younger years have taught me humility and not to judge someone else in these matters as in my youth there probably isn't anything that I didn't experiment with.

For instance I could never be an alcoholic because my stomach goes cracy after a few days of drinking - probably from my younger years of partying.

I smoked for a couple years and then tried using the gum but it turned out the gum was more addicting than the cigarettes and I chewed them for 3 years before I stopped cold turkey - now that really hurt for about 3 days.

I know dependence can sneak up on anyone and I grew up in an environment full of alcoholics and drug addicts so I know what the price is if I ever was to lose control.

PR- I've used a combination of perds and codes. For tapering, thanks to a suggestion from a savvy member, I'll be using codeisan since it has no binders and can be dissolved in liquid for tapering down to extremely small amounts. I truly appreciate your suggestion, though. And, it doesn't sound strange at all.

Hey Blade- Thanks, my friend. I like to 'think' I manage these things before they get out of hand - thus my desire to not procrastinate. I went through Nicotine gum addiction too... YES, it's TOUGH.

Doing well today.. had a good workout this morning. Back to biz.

Interesting thread....

I totally agree with your ideas about AA. My husband is a alsoholic and he relapsed about 3 monthes ago and I called his sponser and he just acted like I was bopthering him for calling and really didnt seem intereseted in helping in any way at all.

I have been to meetings and they are packed with large groups of people from the mental institutions and halfway houses. They disrupt the meetings and then there are the "Old Timers" that talk about the same things over and over and over and over....you get the picture. Dont get me wrong, I'm sure AA works if you really want it too but I kind of look at it like its a poor mans rehab. SOrry if that offends anyone but I just dont think its principles apply today like they used to. Life has changed and things are different with different sets of problems.

Peace to all...

I didn't realize that addicts had become more complicated these days. Look the same to me. Mostly like to drink and drug, and 12-step programs sort of get in the way. They also tend to go to meetings, do nothing that's suggested, and then say the program doesn't work. No guts, no glory. Hum, sounds like the same old song to me.

Golden, I guess the point I was making in a very early post in this thread is that I knew of a teenage boy who got stopped for driving drunk. I'm pushing 50 years old. I don't know about most 50 year olds, but I'm pretty sure most of us drove drunk on at least a few occasions, didn't wear our seat belts, etc. etc.

Anyway, this boy, who had never been in trouble and got stopped, was forced into AA meetings. He isn't an alcoholic, he's a normal boy that happened to get caught doing what hundreds of thousands of people do everyday. So, yeah, AA didn't help him; it made him mad. Put him to work doing community service, give him a huge fine so he won't do it again. Whatever. But being given a DUI nowadays means nothing compared to being stopped when I was a teenager. We were told to go home and not come out for the rest of the night. That was it! Now it's this horrible horrible thing that we must punish people, leave them with records that make it hard to get a good job, etc. We have grown by leaps and bounds as a country; many many more people, but I bet there were just as many driving drunk, if not more, 24 years ago, than there are today. I know that my 3 older children won't even consider it since they want a career and don't want the stigma. And yet I was stopped with friends on a dozen occasions and we were told to go home and don't come out for the rest of the night!

I don't drink now and haven't since I was about 24. I was just stating that maybe, just maybe, the 12 step AA program isn't for everyone? Maybe there are other ways to handle it? And perhaps some of the people in this thread aren't in denial.

i wonder how much the `disease of addiction` has been propogated in order to sell tv shows and seats in rehab. probably a lot!

i dont know, i have a pretty cynical view of the rehab and recovery phenomenon. i think its complete BS actually.

Is this your opinion because you've attempted a rehab/recovery program and it didn't work out well for you?
What do you consider to be a better approach to dealing with substance abuse?
Or do you just have an overall cynical view of addiction in general?

I don't agree with forced AA attendance either, but surely you're not saying we should give drunk drivers a slap on the wrist.

About this time last year a couple in my town got killed by a drunk driver on their way home from Christmas with their grandchildren. He was 21. I don't think they should force him to go to AA. I think they should toss his butt in state prison for about 25 years.

"Go home and sleep it off, and promise not to do it again."
Are you kidding?

Sounds like the current law enforcement approach to discouraging drunk driving is having the intended effect. On your own children, at least.

Just to clarify, AA didn't give him community service and a fine, a judge did.

I'm assuming my post was taken wrong.

I'm not saying AA isn't for certain people - of course it is. I'm saying that if you send someone who is NOT an alcoholic to AA then you are creating a person who will not listen to the speakers, share experiences or anything else.

And yeah, believe it or not, when I was a teenager no one I knew ever had a DUI and WAS told to get off the streets and stay off of them for the rest of the night. Perhaps I lived in Whoville? Who knows? I'm only saying that the atmosphere 25-30 years ago for a DUI, which was points on your license, versus today where it can pretty much ruin your life, is a different world.

And yeah, the reason my children don't drink and drive is because I've beat it into their heads that times are different and a DUI will make a mess out of their lives and possibly others.

And believe me, I have sympathy for people who are killed by drunk drivers. Two of my brother's best men at his wedding were killed by drunk drivers within 3 years of his marriage. One was a Marine who had just gotten out of bootcamp that day and was going out on a date with his girlfriend who he hadn't seen in 3months. Both died.

I'm saying there has to be something in the middle. How can you go from having a DUI only put points on your license, and possibly having you spend the night at the jail until you sobered up and then they let you go, to what it is nowadays?

I have no answers. I was simply stating the facts of what I know from my life as a teenager and the lives the teenagers have now. Of course they are going to have a beer. But now that beer could cost them a whole lot more. Anyone who says their children has never had a drink is either in denial or has perfect children. Now take your perfect child, a straight A student with a 4.2 grade average, accepted into the University of their choice, and give them a DUI. Now what? We have to come up with a better solution.

My solution was to tell my kids that if they got drunk, regardless of age (16,18, whatever) to call me and I'd come get them. No lectures. Because if you tell them they are in deep doo doo when they get home, expect them to NOT call you when they get drunk and try to drive home by themselves.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue. We all have our points of view, we've all lost people to DUI's and many of us have teenagers and children about to become teenagers. I don't want to see a good child's life ruined because they had a few beers.

I wasn't trying to argue, as their is nothing to argue about.
I was just making a point. We pretty much agree on most of that anyway.

The biggest joke is, and so many court appointed people don't realize it, is that those silly cards that they send around to get signed at the meetings, well, it's an anonymous program and very few people really sign their names to it anyway. I've seen Donald Duck on their a few times. The probation officers don't usually know whether or not Sam.S. was in charge of a particular meeting or not.

At least half of the court appointed people come in 15-30 minutes into the meeting just to get their cards signed and we sign them because a) it's not our job to be the AA police and b) it's not worth arguing about. If you don't want to come, don't come.

The only thing that bothers me is when those people come in and ruin the meeting for those who want to be there. It is not our fault the judge sent you and we really don't want the people who don't want to be there either.

Have a great (miserable cold rainy in the NE) day.

"It is important to point out that AA members really believe that alcoholism is a disease with the specific characteristics mentioned here. Much of the reason for this is entirely semantic. By defining alcoholism as a disease and attaching each of the elements of the disease theory to that definition, the theory ends up proving itself, much as the basic assumption about witchcraft proved the existence of witchcraft to almost everyone's satisfaction in the Middle Ages.

Imagine, for instance, that the flu was redefined as an always-fatal disease. If it isn't fatal, it isn't the flu. Now imagine a doctor with a patient who is running a fever, coughing, and headachy. If the patient should die, he can be held up as an example of the inevitable fatality of the flue. But what if the patient lives, as is to be expected? He didn't have the flu. How could he have? The flu, by definition, is always fatal. Using such a circular definition makes it impossible to prove that the flue isn't always fatal. The presence of the same virus and symptoms in those who live and those who die is irrelevant. If it isn't fatal, it isn't the flu.

The definition of alcoholism accepted by AA members and presented by them to the public operates in the same way. It doesn't matter how many alcoholics have moderated their drinking behaviors. Using the disease definition, it can't be proven that alcoholism isn't reversible and progressive. If it is reversed and doesn't progress, it isn't alcoholism."

The Real AA (Behind the myth of 12-step recovery) by Ken Ragge

I don't know whether or not you are aware of this, but there was a Supreme Court ruling that declared AA a religion. An atheist with a DUI took it to the Supreme Court, as he did not agree with the basic premise. From what I've understood, the courts can mandate AA, but if you tell them you are an atheist, there are other provisions that can be made for treatment. If you resent going, you won't get a thing out of it.

While that is usually the case, there are a good number of people who resented coming, hated everything about AA, came late, interrupted the meetings and have stayed a long time. One person I know personally came in under those exact conditions and has been there for 31 years. So, that is not always the case, though I agree it usually is.

One thing is for certain--it can't hurt and there's always SOMETHING you can get OR give to it. It is great groundwork for people helping one another. Of course there has to be structure, but from what I've heard, AA has at least open an alcoholic's mind to the fact that it is no fault of anyone or any circumstance. It is up to them to look into themselves.

My husband is a recovered alcoholic, he has been sober 25+ years. He is now retired and spends almost all of his time helping newcomers. He does not preach, get up on his soapbox, or anything of the kind. He tries to help these guys to deal with their daily problems without resorting to drinking. That's what they have done for so long, they don't know how to interact without a few drinks in them. Many times he does not want to go to meetings, but one of his 'sponsees' calls and wants to see him, so he goes to meet him. They call every day, to the tune of about eleven of them. Believe me, I get so sick of his phone ringing, and so does he. My husband has compassion for these men, and truly wants to help them be better husbands, fathers, members of society. We have been married for 17 years and I have met many AA members like my husband, I have also met many that are dishonest or lecherous, whatever. Like any other society, you are going to get a mix of people, good and bad.

cut down on the number of people he sponsers---you guys deserve a life too---11 is just too many to deal with on a daily basis-----good luck

I agree 11 is too many. Give or take 1 or 2, it is always a large number of guys calling. I tell my husband this, but his sponsor gives him the old 'never turn down an AA request' line. When I get frustrated enough, he does turn off his phone for a while. We do need time alone

How refreshing to hear you say your husband is recovered, not recovering! Alcoholism becomes a disease--it doesn't start out as one, unless someone is allergic to alcohol and manifests it behaviorally. The disease comes into play when the cells in the brain have changed and literally require alcohol in order to function. When a person has quit drinking, the cells respond to the absence of the substance and will right themselves back. And of course, the thinking has changed after that many years sober. It's so wonderful to hear a success story.

You have been an integral part of his recovery and your feelings should be respected as well. It is so easy not to see the forest for the trees, especially when the people (you and your husband) are compassionate and understanding. I bet you even feel a little guilty when you have to say "no". Been there, did that, although not the AA route. I was in social work what seems like forever. That was even my high school graduating class prophecy--"Social worker to Mayberry slums." Small town humor, but you get my point.

It takes some re-learning to realize that when you are good to yourself, you have more to give others. You both sound like you have a lot of common sense. Something tells me you'll work it out. The above poster was right--your relationship needs time, too. Time is the one thing money cannot buy. As you are discovering, the older you get, the quicker it goes by. Own it. It's yours.