I've been interested in the so called 'smart drugs' since Ginkgo Biloba was the latest and greatest thing.. (now just a mainstay of the world).

I created this topic in hopes that people would contribute and we could get to the bottom of what 'smart drugs' are the most , undeniably, beneficial. There are SO many of them out there, that it is very difficult to try them all and determine such as a singular person. So with the experience of many .. maybe a listing of *must haves* could be derived.

So post your experience with any and all 'smart drugs' you have used and do use. Also list/speak about what drugs you consider 'effective' that without a doubt work to some degree.

I have personally tried half a dozen or so,.. and the only one out of those I 'tried' that had a noticeable effect on my cognitive ability was pure Ginkgo biloba.

I and others.. would be very interested in hearing what others are equally or more effective to improve our own cognitive abilities.

Thanks!

An aside, isn't GHB considered a Nootropic?


I'm a little bit (read a lot) wary of ingesting anything that isn't FDA regulated as many of the Smart drug supplements are. That said, I did take a DHEA supplement briefly after my Nana, who suffered from Alzheimer's & Dementia, passed away.




I don't remember if I found it beneficial.

GHB is indeed a nootropic, IMO, but unfortunately it's been demonized and subsequently scheduled by the DEA. As far as the FDA, they are highly unreliable, and should never be considered a good source of information.

One of my favorite nootropics is Acetyl l-Carnitine, or ALC. There are hundreds of independent studies that you can google. Some of the many benefits include providing energy to brain cells and heart cells. ALC is being studied with Alzheimer patients, where results have been promising. Subjectively, it produces a noticable clarity of mind, and may boost energy levels for some people...

the FDA isn't a source of reliable information???

chemsynth

Nope!!

Neofate, you said you've tried a half dozen but only one
worth describing with a 'noticeable effect'. How about
briefly mentioning the others? Might save us some
unnecessary and unpleasant duplications. I am just now
looking into such as 'deprenyl' and 'hydergine' as well
as 'piracetam'. Tried any of these?

My Friend, if you are seriously looking into these and you are an intelligent seeker (in this case meaning using reference and facts as you go) the cognitive mind enhancement/anti-aging and nutrient field is fascinating and ever expanding. I once bombarded myself with the"normal" rec. drugs, then became DEPENDENT ON the chemical world for my pain and still am, HOWEVER said new-age (I dislike the term) smart drugs and nutrients/vitamins haveshown an incredible effect on myself in just a few short weeks. Again, I believe one should keep educated on all fronts but what I have found in just a few simple "beginners" (Paracetam) with suggested and proven other ingredients- all so far amino acids or other smarts and nutrients I thought was pure BS until now. Sorry if I sound like a "Moonie"as I find that sort of thing revolting. I just think us on this site need to travel CAREFULLY all roads. Sorry for the speech, all.

Yes, comp1, I regard myself as a serious and intelligent seeker by your standards as well as mine. That is why I am asking questions on responsible forums like this one. I tried my share of mind expanders (so-called) back in the
sixties and seventies but am behind the curve so far as todays nootropics. I appreciate your positive evaluation of this frontier. Hoping others will deign to reply as well.

i take piracetam and always have for over 15 years now. It does not feel like a drug which is why I like it. I feel good and normal, and my memory and capacity to learn, are excellent. I do not take anything like valium, benzos, ambien (brain is too precious to ruin it with the likes of ambien).I have taken the new diet drug, acomplia, but did not like it. I do not weigh enough to justify taking that drug.

I never order anything that is listed on the Justice Canada website, as a scheduled drug, either controlled or not. I like to go to bed and sleep without worrying about having done something stupid.

I also take magnesium and calcium to me these are miracle supplements. Especially magnesium but you do have do be careful about the amounts, toxicity can produce diarrhea and excessive sedation. I keep the amounts a little less than what is indicated on the bottle i.e., every second day. Everything in moderation.

"I do not take anything like valium, benzos, ambien (brain is too precious to ruin it with the likes of ambien)."

Excuse me? Where is evidence that Ambien is destructive to the brain? Do a Wiki on Ambien, and you'll see it helps the brain recover faster in head injury cases.

I need Ambien to sleep.

Piracetum basically made my brain race about randomly, with no actual CLARITY to perform and concentrate on a specific task. I still have some left over from two years ago.

I'll look into "Acetyl l-Carnitine"; I don't think I've tried that one. Where can I get it???

i consider I'm very lucky not to have to take benzos or ambien. I just shudder about ambien, it's just plain dangerous, surely there are other drugs which can help. A friend of mine who is retired and took a job at the airport tells me every week someone at the airport gets in trouble with ambien, getting off the plane confused, irrational, and in one instance, the pilot had to be replaced because he was to confused to fly the plane, and apparently couldn't stop crying, everyone had noticed his character had totally changed, from anger to tears all the time. I respect people's choices but when it comes to public safety and to the safety of my family, well there are some of us who wish this drug would be taken off the market.

What you have is not insomnia, it is the fear of not sleeping, and conquering your fear would make you feel a lot better than taking a sleeping pill. But as long as you don't put others in danger, whatever works for you is ok, I imagine you are responsible enough to have a sitter around when you take that stuff.

Sorry to see the side street this thread has become.
Disagreement about ambien is far afield of discussing
useful nootropics. My daytime hypersomnia has me using
'provigil'and trying hydergine and probably piracetam
as mentioned previously by leonne75. There are so many
new nootropics out there that have the possibility of
improving mental functioning. Hate to see the topic
fade out so quickly.

I've tried a number of smart drugs over many a year including modafil, piracetam, hgh, DMAE, vincopetine, and L-carnitine to name a few. Frankly, my favorite is vincopetine. It is an herb you can get at any health food store and gives minor burst of energy and though clarity you can take with a multi vitamin and get good results. DMAE taken with Vincopetine can improve the results and it can be bought over the counter as well......I would love to continue on HGH but it's so pricey.

Modafinil is wonderful. Its a stimulant that doesnt give you that stim'd out feeling, just allows a nice clean focus. As far as its nootropic properties go, im not well versed in its background. I do know it has been considered to be beneficial to brain function as well. In my opinion, it needs to be OTC, as its abuse profile is extremely low, as are its side effects. Modafinil is a great way to go!

Barring that, I've found that a dose of phenibut (500mg-1g) combined with 24-2700mg of piracetam is a kick in the pants. May give you a more subdued feeling of intoxication/lightheadedness though.

Modafinil + piracetam = amaaaazing. Actually piracetam + anything is pretty damn good! lol

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this questions. I started taking modafinil (modalert, actually) to combat fatigue. I then got some piracetam and starting taking both, 200 mg of modalert in the am, and two 800 mg of piracetamn thru out the day. I have been getting pretty bad stomach aches. I've always been sensitive to certain medications like antibiotics and pain meds like aleve, aspirin, etc. I see that nausea is a side effect, but this isn't nausea, it feels like it is eating at my stomach lining and I have to worry about ulcers, etc.

Has anyone had that side effect, and any suggestions to avoid it? I'm thinking of dropping the modalert and just sticking with the piracetam but the modalert really helps get me out of bed in the morning. So, anyway, any suggestions would be appreciated.....!

i read a study where math professors actually decreased their test scores when they took modafil...but for people with lower intellegence its supposed to help with difficult tasks...not sure why that would matter...seems to help me concentrate clearer so my intellengence must be lower that a college professor...go figure. take the piracetam off and on but it tastes like garbage.

and phenibut and modalert dont mix well for me...i was sick for days...may have o.d. on the phen, like a quarter of a tablespoon seemed good...but im afraid i was mistaken.

Can you provide a source for the study about lowered test scores on modafinil? Never taken it but thinking about it.

This is a really good thread. I've been kind of interested in nootropics for a while but never really done all that much research.

My only real experience is with Ritalin which I ordered online a while and ago and which was incredibly effective for me. I found I could concentrate for hours when normally I'd be getting distracted by anything.

I've been planning to order Modafinil for a while and probably will do when I find somewhere good and have some money. I've also kind of wanted to get hold of Piracetam for a while, but just have no idea how to get hold of it...


I had no idea that things like Ginkgo Biloba and magnesium supplements could actually be really effective! There's also loads of drugs on here that I'd never heard of. Never heard of DHEA, l-Carnitine, DMAE or Vinpocetine.

So yeah, good thread! Any more info/experiences about nootropics would be great!

I read something similiar in the smart drugs and nutrients I and II books, though it wasn't specifically related to modalert. The studies they cite report test scores are lowered when an individual is taking too much of a specific drug and an adjustment or lowering of the meds will give better results. This could relate to Modalert as well.

As for side effects, it is suggested that you lower the dose of smart drugs if you are combining them as you are already increasing the intake with adding drugs (smart drug books again). There is no hard science in how to figure this out. It's all trial and error on an individual basis and you have to find what works for you.

I cannot take 200mg of Modalert as I get headaches and am too wired. I take 50 to 100 mg and feel fine especially when added with multivitamin or other smart drugs.

I'm not real sure about Modalert but I have a BORDER COLLIE who knows over 100 tricks. I Didn't Really know about
the breed but looked it up and they are said to be the smartest breed.
I like to say that all dogs are smart but the Border Collies relate to people easier. I just know that I've never spent over 5 mins. teaching her a trick, she just picks them up, I gave her a doggies IQ test and she scored very high. Like I said I like to think that some breeds communicate w/people easier, she can add and spell,but all dogs are potentually very smart when they need to be.
I do believe we don't give animals [especially dogs enough credit].

What?

its under the wiki use under off-label use.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Other_uses....it appears the source given is actually another message board...so take it for what its worth.

Ambien essentially cuts off your short term memory and messes with your frontal lobes. It probably makes people with head injuries because it relaxes the brain and in a way "resets" it. Don't tell me that you've been taking ambien for a long time and not have had bouts of amnesia where you don't remember making a phone call, sending an e-mail or eating.....

ugh! Tell me about it! After a couple months of taking Ambien (when needed) I would find open candy wrappers by my bedside without ANY recollection whatsoever of eating! I would have yucky food tastes in my mouth. I told my doc that I needed to change and he put me on Lunesta. Again, only when I feel like I cannot sleep and the difference is amazing!
My husband would tell me that I would get up and do all these strange things like clean out the closet (again in the morning I wouldn't remember.) I would say and act in way that was a totally different person. I hated the drug. I mean, if Ambien is your total solution just prepare to gain a lot of weight. Taking ambien can be a recipe for disaster. People have gotten in their car and driven while on ambien and then wake up some unfami1liar place wondering how they got there. Now THAT is scary

I agree that some people do not take well to the drug. However, I have taken ambien many times and have never eaten in my sleep, nor have I gained any weight or done other strange things. Did you fight the effects and try to stay up, or did you go straight to bed?

Others might have different experiences, and for some it's the only drug that works well.

Keep taking it; it's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when" with ambien. I am not saying it doesn't help alot of people but I wouldn't advise being of it for too long. Withdrawals are dangerous and the rebound insomnia is a nightmare......

Hehe, they say don't take Ambien for more than two weeks. So what are you supposed to take after the two weeks is up?

Anyhow, I've been taking it since 2003. 2005 I discovered that taking it while awake made me more clear-minded. I could / can sit for hours tackling a complex problem on the computer. Such as 3D programming or emulating a violin with basic synth modules.

It also improved my musical abilities (as I compose from time to time).

I'd hardly say there's brain damage with me. AND I REMEMBER EVERYTHING NOW. Memory is better than before I took it actually.

Admittedly, I require higher doses now than in the past. But MOST DRUGS operate this way.

Now, my brain chemistry is probably different, as in my younger years I was considered: Autistic, OCD, and ADD. This drug seems to eradicate all of the cloudiness / worry / etc. associated with those conditions.

Ambien is DEFINITELY a smart drug for some people, and should be OTC with a warning label IMO.

My sister in law has been taking Ambien for years. It is rx'd by her doc. I thought it was only supposed to be used for 10 days or so. I have had it and it does absolutely nothing for me when I have had sleep problems. When my body will not fall asleep, nothing has worked. I've not slept for up to 8 days at a time. At least not a good sleep, but more that twilight sleep where one wakes up every hour or so and where you realize that you are not really asleep but you are just so exhausted. That's beside the point.

I have heard that HGH has to be taken intervenously to be effective. Any other source is pure hogwash and is not absorbed enough to have any effect.

What was the bit about the Border Collie about???

Bringing this thread back into nootropics land.

I took Piracetam 2x1200mg + Lecithin 1200mg every day, for about 6 months, if not more. One Piracetam and the Lecithin early in the morning after eating, and the other Piracetam when I started studying that day.

For some time, I would take the pills along with a "bodybuilding multivitamin", the Animal Pak.

I have to report good effects for this combination, as it helped me better control my feelings when getting over certain bad experiences or simple criticism, but it's very easy to notice when the effects would end, as I would get quite irritable.

Now, I'm interested in getting a bigger combination of nootropics after studying some of them for a chemistry project. I want to take the same dose of Lecithin and Piracetam (don't think I would change to something more potent, like the Oxiracetam and Aniracetam) and add Deprenyl, 2.5mg, and Hydergine, if I'm lucky enough and DrugBuyers.com helps me find an IOP that ships them. I would also add Picamilon to this combo, but I have to start thinking about the monthly cost and I can't afford too much.

Now, has anyone combined any of the aforementioned pills? If so, what specific dosages and administration? (What I'm referring to here is not how you take them, but WHEN. Early in the morning, 30 minutes before work?)

Should I post in the Who offers it? How Much? & Various Lists forum for info on my combo?

EDiT: Centrophenoxine looks like a nice substitute for Lecithin, as it better metabolizes into choline.

ok here are my experiences. i know that some things are not healthy for sure... but in the past six month i need to work from 10-12 hours a day and once im home im writing on my thesis for another 6-8 hours. just take it as an experience report, and not a reason to argue on healthyness and stuff ;-)

i`ve been into ephedrine for quite some years by now. the bad thing is that its bad for the heart and you need to continuously increase the dose to keep the effect comming. maximum time period for usage is 6 weeks for me. after that the side-effects become really hard (sleeping disorder, you mood changes real quick and i become quite tetchy) off min. 2-4 weeks to get started with small doses again. start on day 1 with 25mg once to twice a day. after app 4 weeks im up to 150mg and thats when its reported to get dangerous.
quite a common stack is ephedrine, coffeine, aspirine for work-outs. for some time i took 50mg ephedrine with 200mg coffeine which longers the effect of the ephedrine. but i dont like this nervousness and stuff from coffeine...

next thing i tried was modafinil (brand vigil in germany, producer cephalon) and that [censored]] really made it for me from day one. super focus at work and still able to concentrate/focus in the evenings. however i dont feel the effects of tiredness that much but the effect is also exhaustible. dosage: 2x100mg/day. the generic modalert is not as good as the original, but still worth considering with the reasonable low-price.

adrafinil is supposed to have a similar effect as modafinil. but it needs to metabolize... some times i dont feel anything. but when i take 150mg adrafinil with 25mg at once, it kicks in within 20-30min.
Dosage 2x150mg/day with 25mg ephedrine each.

Speed Serum Energy Shot, Producer: Peak. i can provide a link of a german website. PM me
It containts green tea, guarana, coffeine, taurine, a lot of different aminos (l-carnetine as well) and some vitamins. it delivers an energy shot and helps against tiredness, focus back again and stuff. that stuff is really good! 20eur for 300mg which lasts for app. 30-35 energy drinks.

Finally the mix of ephedrine, speed serum, adrafinil or modafinil is the ultimate booster for 20hours workdays with only short breaks of 15-30mins for food and a bit rest.

not to mention amphetamines around here. just not the right thing to stay focused, able to sleep and eat.

i took vigil over 10days for testing purposes. once i set it off i felt what i did to my body and brain, needed two days rest, a lot of sleep and food to get back on track. when you take modafinil or the mix of the mentioned substances, force yourself to have breaks! you need still if you dont feel like.

i won't recommend taking the mix over a longer period. im on it for app. 3month now and will set it off next week once im done with my thesis.
modafinil and the speed serum are worth trying! it really increased my performance every day.

Well that is certainly an impressive recitation about your "mix" especially the part about combining modafinil, ephedrine and the speed serum over a several month period.
If you aren't familiar with the erowid.org web site, you should really take a look there.
You'll probably fit right in with their trip report contributors.

Hi acid-

Good luck with your 'smart concoction'.

It is indeed difficult to maintain full-time employment and pursue a graduate degree; therefore, I would recommend that you be sure to submit whatever thesis you are writing to a proofreader or copy editor before your defense.

Best regards!

I tried Piracetam while im the military, as it stated that it was supposed to help your concentration (I was a USAF Counter-Sniper) What I found pleasantly surprised me.

For me it didn't do a thing for my concentration *BUT* I found that it drastically improved my night vision. For me that was reason enough to take it.

I have since stopped using it, but there is one place in the US (maybe more) that I knew of where it was available OTC. I forget the name of the site - I have to fire up my laptop to get the name of the place.

It was rather inexpensive also - much cheaper than the sites thal sell the European Nootropil brand.