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#71708 - 11/01/06 07:27 PM
Re: QUALTEST SUCK!!!! SO DO MALLIES
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 2800
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Quote:
hydro is hydro is hydro...enough said. Anyone who thinks there is a difference...
Wayne-
A cake is a cake is a cake too. But make one cake with flour, one with wheat germ and he other with cornbread. The common ingredients are sugar and egg (that's the hydrocodone in this recipe). Now trust me, the cake with the flour will be much better (for me at least). Hydrocodone is Hydrocodone. But it's the filler than makes the difference. If you use talcum powder as the filler, it will be different than if you use chalk. The chalk will be so overpowering, that then the hydro may not be as effective at all. The talcum powder may be less abrasive and more of the hydro will get into the system.
The FDA ONLY requires the hydro being in the product. Out of the hundreds of fillers the pharm companies use, the FDA could care less. So there is a difference in generics. Read the fillers contained in each product and you will see they are different. Person A may be sensitive to one filler whereas person B may not. So not all generics are created equal.
To be competitive, one pharm company may use a less costly filler than another company. You have to remember that a regular postage stamp weighs about 10 milligrams. Take an additional 10.25 stamps to make the ASAP (for a 10/235). That’s not much weight! The pill would be so small, someone could easily lose it. The rest of the weight is FILLER. FILLER is the culprit and what makes each generic different. There are over 200 approved fillers for pharmaceuticals.
Making generics is a business proposition. To be competitive, the pharm company has to use the cheapest filler available. So if it’s talc, then they use talc. No two generics are the same! Therefore, different reactions from people. If you take Mallies (aka Mallincraps) and you like them, then you have a cast iron stomach. You could probably drink Draino and never know the difference! In German, Millincrap means “I need to take a mean [censored].”
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#71709 - 11/01/06 08:18 PM
Re: QUALTEST SUCK!!!! SO DO MALLIES
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/14/05
Posts: 2766
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Quote:
Quote:
hydro is hydro is hydro...enough said. Anyone who thinks there is a difference...
Wayne-
A cake is a cake is a cake too. But make one cake with flour, one with wheat germ and he other with cornbread. The common ingredients are sugar and egg (that's the hydrocodone in this recipe). Now trust me, the cake with the flour will be much better (for me at least). Hydrocodone is Hydrocodone. But it's the filler than makes the difference. If you use talcum powder as the filler, it will be different than if you use chalk. The chalk will be so overpowering, that then the hydro may not be as effective at all. The talcum powder may be less abrasive and more of the hydro will get into the system.
The FDA ONLY requires the hydro being in the product. Out of the hundreds of fillers the pharm companies use, the FDA could care less. So there is a difference in generics. Read the fillers contained in each product and you will see they are different. Person A may be sensitive to one filler whereas person B may not. So not all generics are created equal.
To be competitive, one pharm company may use a less costly filler than another company. You have to remember that a regular postage stamp weighs about 10 milligrams. Take an additional 10.25 stamps to make the ASAP (for a 10/235). That’s not much weight! The pill would be so small, someone could easily lose it. The rest of the weight is FILLER. FILLER is the culprit and what makes each generic different. There are over 200 approved fillers for pharmaceuticals.
Making generics is a business proposition. To be competitive, the pharm company has to use the cheapest filler available. So if it’s talc, then they use talc. No two generics are the same! Therefore, different reactions from people. If you take Mallies (aka Mallincraps) and you like them, then you have a cast iron stomach. You could probably drink Draino and never know the difference! In German, Millincrap means “I need to take a mean [censored].”
EXCELLENT POST!!!
-77marley
_________________________
01.20.09--Bush's Last Day!!!
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#71711 - 11/02/06 10:13 AM
Re: QUALTEST SUCK!!!! SO DO MALLIES
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/28/04
Posts: 937
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Quote:
Quote:
hydro is hydro is hydro...enough said. Anyone who thinks there is a difference...
Wayne-
A cake is a cake is a cake too. But make one cake with flour, one with wheat germ and he other with cornbread. The common ingredients are sugar and egg (that's the hydrocodone in this recipe). Now trust me, the cake with the flour will be much better (for me at least). Hydrocodone is Hydrocodone. But it's the filler than makes the difference. If you use talcum powder as the filler, it will be different than if you use chalk. The chalk will be so overpowering, that then the hydro may not be as effective at all. The talcum powder may be less abrasive and more of the hydro will get into the system.
The FDA ONLY requires the hydro being in the product. Out of the hundreds of fillers the pharm companies use, the FDA could care less. So there is a difference in generics. Read the fillers contained in each product and you will see they are different. Person A may be sensitive to one filler whereas person B may not. So not all generics are created equal.
To be competitive, one pharm company may use a less costly filler than another company. You have to remember that a regular postage stamp weighs about 10 milligrams. Take an additional 10.25 stamps to make the ASAP (for a 10/235). That’s not much weight! The pill would be so small, someone could easily lose it. The rest of the weight is FILLER. FILLER is the culprit and what makes each generic different. There are over 200 approved fillers for pharmaceuticals.
Making generics is a business proposition. To be competitive, the pharm company has to use the cheapest filler available. So if it’s talc, then they use talc. No two generics are the same! Therefore, different reactions from people. If you take Mallies (aka Mallincraps) and you like them, then you have a cast iron stomach. You could probably drink Draino and never know the difference! In German, Millincrap means “I need to take a mean [censored].”
Yeah good point, but while we are on the topic of variables that can cause changes I think most ppl who have used Narcotics for pain releif can agree that tolerance is a son-of-a-gun. Also, anyone who understands the uptake of the drug in the stomach also knows that metabolism can also have a large effect (i.g. proglumide, Zantac, etc.) To me this explains ppl's different reactions better than an FDA regulated amount of Hydrocodone and the various fillers. Although I DO think that the point about fillers is quite valid regarding adverse reactions, not just losing the effect, but headaches, nausea, etc.
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#71713 - 11/02/06 02:54 PM
Re: QUALTEST SUCK!!!! SO DO MALLIES
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Member
Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 91
Loc: Here and There..W.PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
hydro is hydro is hydro...enough said. Anyone who thinks there is a difference...
Wayne-
A cake is a cake is a cake too. But make one cake with flour, one with wheat germ and he other with cornbread. The common ingredients are sugar and egg (that's the hydrocodone in this recipe). Now trust me, the cake with the flour will be much better (for me at least). Hydrocodone is Hydrocodone. But it's the filler than makes the difference. If you use talcum powder as the filler, it will be different than if you use chalk. The chalk will be so overpowering, that then the hydro may not be as effective at all. The talcum powder may be less abrasive and more of the hydro will get into the system.
The FDA ONLY requires the hydro being in the product. Out of the hundreds of fillers the pharm companies use, the FDA could care less. So there is a difference in generics. Read the fillers contained in each product and you will see they are different. Person A may be sensitive to one filler whereas person B may not. So not all generics are created equal.
To be competitive, one pharm company may use a less costly filler than another company. You have to remember that a regular postage stamp weighs about 10 milligrams. Take an additional 10.25 stamps to make the ASAP (for a 10/235). That’s not much weight! The pill would be so small, someone could easily lose it. The rest of the weight is FILLER. FILLER is the culprit and what makes each generic different. There are over 200 approved fillers for pharmaceuticals.
Making generics is a business proposition. To be competitive, the pharm company has to use the cheapest filler available. So if it’s talc, then they use talc. No two generics are the same! Therefore, different reactions from people. If you take Mallies (aka Mallincraps) and you like them, then you have a cast iron stomach. You could probably drink Draino and never know the difference! In German, Millincrap means “I need to take a mean [censored].”
Yeah good point, but while we are on the topic of variables that can cause changes I think most ppl who have used Narcotics for pain releif can agree that tolerance is a son-of-a-gun. Also, anyone who understands the uptake of the drug in the stomach also knows that metabolism can also have a large effect (i.g. proglumide, Zantac, etc.) To me this explains ppl's different reactions better than an FDA regulated amount of Hydrocodone and the various fillers. Although I DO think that the point about fillers is quite valid regarding adverse reactions, not just losing the effect, but headaches, nausea, etc.
Just by coincidence I switched pharmacies today because Wrong Aid refused to fill me with anything but 10/325 Mallies that were really bothering my stomach. I went to the local Mom & Pop and they took my insurance and when I asked for 10/325 Watsons they said if thats what you like no problem. Pharmacist also said my comment regarding the stomach issue was not that uncommon. He suggested to me something about the ph being different....(whatever) all i know is the Watson product always agreed with me and worked as well if not better....If we all were the same there would be no need for the different brands I would figure. All I know is I am much happier now and to me thats all that matters anyway!!
smuggy
_________________________
Hey!! That looks like my dog!!!
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#71717 - 11/02/06 10:18 PM
Re: QUALTEST SUCK!!!! SO DO MALLIES
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Board Addict
Registered: 12/01/03
Posts: 284
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Quote:
Qualitest does indeed suck. It did nothing for me. Where are you, my dear Watson??
Anyone stuck with Qualitest or mallies, just let me know. I will take them off your hands. Also I bet when you have no Watsons you are gobbling up those other brands by the handful, though probably still complaining about it. I just do not get it? 
IF they do not work then why do you keep getting more of them for three months, then six months, then logner.
Just stop taking them, I bet you will feel better. Since they are doing nothing for you then that should be very very easy. 
Watson has been under Federal Pressure to self regulate there marketing of vicodin else possibly feel the wrath of the George with the BIG "DUBYA" just like Sadaam. They have been cooperative and have reported several pharmacies ordering large quantities of this product but still continue to manufacture and sell. Time will tell if they really tighten up and sale to only totally legit pharmacies though for now the local street dealers still sale allot of watsons so they have not totally cut out the supply chain. 
If you hate your qualitest, vintage, mallies, and need to dispose of them then let me know as I can do that for you. I will even compensate you for them and not post a complaint about the quality of these companies product. If you do not like them then stop buying them!
It must be another new moon as it seems there are these kinds of posts when there is such.
TAKE CARE EVERYONE!
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#71721 - 04/10/07 07:48 PM
Re: WATSON HYDRO VS. BRAND
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Stranger
Registered: 03/02/04
Posts: 2
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Quote:
mallies definately have something in them that makes them a worse makeup. i get sick when i take them too. i think it is the quality of the medications used. i think there are different grades of hydro and acetomenophin just like there are different grades of meat. Mallies for sure use the lowest grade too. they are the cheapest and nastiest. i go with the watson's or ucb's all the way. i will go out of my way to find places that have watsons and ucbs to keep from getting mallies.
I know these posts are old but I was doing a google search concerning brands of hydrocodone and it linked up to here.
To anyone out there that says hydrocodone is hydrocodone regardless of brand, and there's no difference, they are full of BS.
The is a big different between ALL brands of drugs. I've had the watson 10/325, qualitest, and millies. TO ME, the millies seemed weak compared to the watson, and the qualitest are interesting, I'm not sure what to make of them. Certain effects make me feel like they stronger and other effects make them seem weaker. Not sure yet.
They bother my stomach for starters, it takes almost 2-3 times as long for them to take effect, and they are extremely HARD, they are scored but I have a heck of a time trying to break them in half. Compared to the watsons that break in half without effort. Qualitest also seem to be more sedating, and make me more sleepy. I know its not all in my head. Does that mean they are stronger ?
So it appears that the qualitest take more time to digest and be absorbed. I'm going to try crushing one sometime and see if that allows it work faster like the watsons.
The watsons start relieving pain in 20 to 35 min. , the qualitest closer to an hour.
Now I suppose some people are more sensitive to the effects and are more observant that others, which might explain why some people don't notice any difference at all.
Also I'm not a chemist or pharmacist, however I did some research for about a year now to try to understand WHY there is such a difference between brands of the same medicine. This is what I found out.
There are several different ways to create/manufacture/derive hydrocodone. One way is to derive it from thebaine which occurs naturally in the opium poppy.
Keep in mind thebaine is a stimulant with narcotic properties. Another way is to derive it from codeine, or from morphine, or from dihydrocodeine. Also keep in mind that these drugs tend to be more sedative.
So are different drug companies manufacturing hydrocodone different, chemically, I don't know.
I also read how some generics actually have LESS of the active drug in them. It can vary of to 10% to 15%.
That's why some of the brand name drugs seem to work better, and some generics of the same drug appear better than others.
All said and done, the watson win the day with me. They are my favorite, relieve pain with minimal side effects and very little drowsiness.
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#71725 - 05/26/07 09:28 AM
Re: QUAILTEST SUCK!!!!!!!!
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Stranger
Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 1
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I have been taking hydro 10/325 for several years, mostly Watsons. Work great.
Got a script from Duane's Discount RX out of Florida, and they were supposed to be 10/325 Watsons, and they looked just like them, yellow, oblong, cut on one side for splitting. However, on the other side, there was a large "V" on it.
After a week of taking these, I concluded they had NO hydro, or very little, and were completely ineffective. I called Duane's, and they said they were not Watsons, but QualCare, or Qualtest. They would not replace them, would not refund, and said they did not carry any other hydro brand, from Norco to Watson's. I had to throw away the entire bottle, and buy from a different source.
PLEASE, my friends. Make sure you don't ever get hydro with a "V" notched in the pill. It is garbage, and you will lose your money. Specify the brand that works for you. In my case, the Watsons do just fine.
Good Hunting.
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#71727 - 05/26/07 09:37 AM
Re: QUAILTEST SUCK!!!!!!!!
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/29/05
Posts: 924
Loc: On the move
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MY .02 I don't doubt you, but just think about this a little bit.....
I have had Mallies, QualiTest, Watsons, etc. in the 10/325 strength.
Yes, I can tell the difference in the fillers in the Mallies (they upset my stomach) but other than that, the ACTIVE ingredient, hydrocodone, has to be present in pretty close to the same quantities as brand. Others more well versed than me will know the exact percentage it can differ from brand, it is not a lot.
Could you possibly be having sort of a psychological effect?
For example, when people read here on the boards that "Mallies are [censored]" it tends to (in my humble opinion) cause them to believe they will NOT get pain relief, and the "placebo" effect is SO powerful; it's been well documented. So they don't get as much relief.
Prior to using ROPS, when my doctor was prescribing locally, Walgreens always used the cheapest generic (now it is Mallincroft/sp?) and I wouldn't have known, prior to this board, to expect anything wrong or different.
BUT - Since I've BEEN on the board, Mallies now upset my stomach. Figure that out!
I think in the current climate of no suppliers/limited suppliers, we'll find more and more than "beggars can't be choosers".
Again, don't want to make light of your situation, but have not had the same bad experience with QualiTest - perhaps you got a close-to-expiration lot?????
_________________________
I thought I was wrong once, but I was wrong....
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#71731 - 05/26/07 04:43 PM
Re: QUAILTEST SUCK!!!!!!!!
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Enthusiast
Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 177
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Quote:
If all the brands were the same size/color, and had the same markings, I wouldn't know the difference. They each work equally in my case.
hey, i agree that anything regardless brand has worked in the sense of working on my pain. i have seen a difference tho' in some things regarding how they work, meaning different brands sometimes irritate my stomach, or some will make me feel a little different, more sleepy, or might seem to start working more quickly or less, but i have never had anything that didn't work on my pain b/c of the different brand. Just some worked differently in other ways.
What laura said above, that's an interesting thought to me b/c i got qualitest 7.5 a few months ago and wasn't sure since i usually get 10mgshydro, but they worked very well, just as well as the 10mgs and i actually thought better. Maybe her explanation is the reason why b/c i found it curious that 7.5 worked better on my pain then 10????
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#71736 - 05/26/07 11:03 PM
Re: QUALTEST SUCK!!!! SO DO MALLIES
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/16/05
Posts: 1142
Loc: Suitcase
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Hi Night Owl Marley, I'm so happy when I see you up, and communitative. Back on topic. I thought for 2 years now, that folks that had issues with Qualitest were buggars. Whiners. Not very brighters. But when Medicom sent me those evil mother-fucckers and I took the first one and was so sick that it took me hours to even swallow a Darvocet. I couldn't eat, I was in pain, and I had just paid for the consult and the price of the med. Over $200 for something I couldn't even take. I was furious. I have never asked specifically for Watson, cause I had never received anything else. Short story longer, I noticed after the first day I was having mild w/d symptoms. The only thing that would make them go away was a Darvocet. If I took the Vintage, I not only got nauseated, but the gi stuff wouldn't go away, the sniffles and the chills would not cease. That would have nothing to do with the "fillers". And with the wrong patient name on the script to boot. I never had any problem with Duanes, ever. Was with them through several different OPs. I didn't ever call them, because the OPs always stated to not call the pharmacy, and to always call them. Which makes perfect sense. That's it. That's it what I'm not sure. I just wanted to do a shout out to Marley and Hoppa, and Ruggie, if she's able to view. Those three dber's are tops. 
_________________________
I don't answer the phone.
I get the feeling whenever I do,
that there will be someone on the other end.
~Fred Couples
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