I know how you feel swirl, I have been down to 5 valiums and waiting on an order, trying to taper at 1 a day sucked, then bamm, the order came. I was so relieved.

I'm doing good on the Valium, I think. I'm taking 10 mg a day. I did have a super stressful day one day this week and took 15 mg. I don't see that as a set back though. I'm not ready to taper beyond 10 mg yet. And I feel okay with that decision right now.

backpain - I'm glad your order arrived. That's always a relief. Especially when we are low on meds.


Swirl

Hi Scruf,

Exactly. You've got the idea NAILED.

To the degree to which benzodiazepines (bzds) calm you, in general you'll get an exact proportionate response coming off.

As dosages and the length of time differ from person to person, so too can the experience vary.

A year ago I hopped off clonazepam (Klonopin) from a yearlong addiction to up to 8-10 mg every. single. day.

I thought I'd been tapering adequately over a month or so, was in rush to just get off, and made a famously dangerous, horrendous decision to stop when on a 2 mg tablet.

Boy let me you. The stuff is insidious. You just don't realize how much this kind of drug is nulling and numbing EVERY SENSORY EXPERIENCE OF WHICH YOU ARE CAPABLE until you try a stunt like that, ok?

I never seized but spent a solid week not sleeping, sweating profusely at night, had tinnitus, and--getting back to the principle you guessed correctly Scruf--every single thing it ever numbed (like nerves, etc.) was amplified:

It seemed as though I had much clearer vision. It seemed as though I had bionic hearing (I seem to hear and detect EVERYTHNG).

Klonopin (and about equally, Xanax) is a very potent GABAnergic agonist. GABA, short [i]gama amino buytric acid is the major excitatory inhibitor neurotransmitter (NT) in the body.

To be blunt, without GABA, you'd simply seize up and die. lol

And you find out FAST that a) its level controls more than you ever realized; and b) monkeying around with drugs that affect this NT can get you addicted and, because with addicition comes tolerance, can cause you more grief trying to get off that you'd believe.

Just look at this board. "Benzo" this, "benzo" that.

I've said it before: The luckiest person who thinks he has a little anxiety is the one who NEVER goes anywhere never bzds.

Stits

for me, xanax is to dangerous. I had the hell of going through WD a long time ago, I was taking at least 3mg of xanax a day for a few weeks, didn't know about WD (before the net was even around LOL) and I decided to "clean up" and just stop, boy did that stink, I couldn't figuer out why I felt so bad for weeks after stopping when I could have easily tapered at least. In the past years I have taken xanax but mostly because it was the only benzo I had around, I try and stick with valium. I was once at a point where I tapered for weeks and got down to about 7mg per day, then took 15mg one day when I was really nervouse and totally felt its full effect. Unfortunatly, now, I am on about 20-30mg of valium daily. I can survive with 20mg per day, mayb skipping a day, but thats about the best I can do. If you are taking benzo's, try and switch to valium, its much easier to control and get off than xanax. I keep saying I will taper but always find and excuse to take a few after a super stressfull day (which seems to be every day latelly)
so thats my rant, feels good to type it out and share my 3 cents. In my opinion, life is just too stressfull.

Hi Backpain,

OH MY GOD you're WHAT!?

lol Kidding. You are very gracious bordering on brave to share your level. I for one would like to thank you, and have great news: It pales in comparison to what my habit has soared to these days.

I'm not brave as you. I just KNOW that, as soon as I start a confessional, some helpful-minded soul is going to start telling me everything I already know - or worse, direct me to benzo.org. lol

Now... nothing specifically against these benzo-angst groups, mind you. It's just me--I don't cotton well to being coached, advised, warned, informed, or otherwise "helped," as I find that many of these efforts wind up perpetuating or creating new cycles of fear, however unintentional.

Thx again, BP.

Stits
(<-- What's that lil' guy doing? Regardless what he's up to, the smiley says "psycho" so... yep! That's me. )

One word.
Phenobarbital.


If you are trying to get off any benzo's, Pheno is the way to go.

I doesn't get me high, but that's not why I use benzos to begin with. It does, tho, help me sleep and not have seizures.

Comming off Benzos isnt fun and I'm not saying phenobarb makes it fun, but comming off with the aide of Phenobarbital makes life a bit easier and the only thing that REALLY WORKS, besides more Benzos "Of Course".




I have already answered this question many many times, and I only have a few posts.

I have been watching this thread for awhile and finally decided to post a question. I have been taking 2mgs of Xanax every night for at least 12-18 months. I don't always take it at the same time (might be as early as 9:00 or as late as 2:00), and if it is really late at night, I might only take 1mg. I have never noticed any WD symptoms, but then again, I don't think I have ever had WDs from anything. Do you think I am just lucky or that one day this is going to come back to bite me in the butt if I run out or try to stop cold turkey.

Last month I did cut the dose down to 1mg a night and I noticed that I didn't sleep very well (but that is what I am taking the xanax for to begin with) but that was it. I got tired of not having a good nights sleep, so I went back up to 2mg a night.

One way to cut back on the Xanax at bed time is take 1mg of Xanax and 50mg of Benadryl at the same time. That works for me. Hope that helps.

do you ever go a night with NO alprazolam?

then you will notice WD. maybe even a jump down to .5 or .25 would do it. but taking that 1 milligram minimum per night is probably keeping you out of WD if you average 2/night.

I really haven't went one night with less .5 mgs. How long would it take before WDs would set in? I had a friend who was addicted to hydrocodone and she would go into WDs within hours of not taking a dose.

I know somebody not taking hydro regularly (now) and when he does - goes right into withdrawal with 10mg. Headache for 2 days.

have a question for anyone in the know regarding xanax and benzos. i remember being prescribed xanax as it was touted at the time (early 80's?) as wonder drug for anxiety, and they gave me tons. just think my anxiety was too big for the xanax and don't ever remember withdrawals from them. do remember them from valium. anyway, if one wants not to have benzos on hand for whatever reason.... but does need to have something for that occasional panic attack -- what would be best? i'm thinking librium only because i would not be tempted to take it unless i was at "the jumping out of my skin point" -- from the anxiety man when he stops in to pay the unwelcome visit....

any suggestions would be appreciated....

Are you wanting to prevent the panic attacks or abort them when they do happen?

abort.

Diazepam is probably the most rapid-acting of the benzodiazepines. But whatever you take by mouth, it's going to be around half an hour for onset of effect.

Welcome DubMD,

That's no secret to me--if you go back to my very first months in 2005-2006, I tried to educate people about the greatness of phenobarb as a tool, since it is very potent and WILL prevent any possibility of the Great Grand Ma. lol (Gran mal.)

And yet I need to thank you. -->

"Coming off benzos isnt fun and I'm not saying phenobarb makes it fun, but coming off with the aide of phenobarbital makes life a bit easier and the only thing that REALLY WORKS, besides more benzos Of Course."

You really make an awesome point. if you know what you're doing, you can augment a detox WITH phenobarb and this can:

1) Help you to sleep
2) Smooth the rough edges

These are awefully terrible and tangled webs we weave for ourselves though, because hell then you have to get off the phenobarb.

There is one secret I know of that can make getting off everything almost painless and unnoticeable. T I M E.

You give the brain a year and steady lowering of dose, you can get off and never notice a twinge, for the brain both increases the NT and up-regulates GABAnergic facilitation (and modulates other related processes).

The problem for the addict though is, well, he's a fricking addict.

There's a five-letter word which Rules the addict when he begins thinking of getting clean - FEAR.

In fact this five letter word begins to rule the addict's life long before he/she even reaches this point of realization; this epiphany ("Wow. I really can't go on like this." [And may be for a myriad of reasons, but cost begins to take front-row seat.])

Well I'll go and I know what you're dying to say. Kind of like an irresistable itch, idn't it? But you're wrong, becuase

FEAR has five letters! Don't agrue with me.

lol
Stits

B/c of their mechanism of action, bzds are *universally* addicting. There is no luck or immunity from this.

Nitemoon, this is up to you. You can stay put indefinitely (I suppose), but a year every night is... Well first off, Xanax is a terrible sleeping aid beyond 5-7 days because that's about it takes to become habituated. It is unforgiving know and no quarter.

You're just going to have to go with a substitute (for a gentler taper)--preferably phenobarbital + very slow cutting back on the Xannies. Oh, you're dosing @ PM only, right? Just a thought, but very important if you do add on the phenbobarb, KEEP it at nighttime. Like I've said elsewhere, these drugs because of the proclivity for tolerance are just insidious (sneaky).

Keep it very simple and know about the phenobarb dose you should take. You can learn this anonymously just by asking over the 'Net.

Idk, i hope this helps you.

Stitsicals

Yes, and the effects seem to last longer than the xanax do, too.

I have tried other sleep aids and have had bad side effects from them. I will never touch Ambien again!! I haven't increased the dose of xanax I have been taking. And you are correct, I do only take it at night and am careful to not take any other medications around that time, not even allergy meds. I have stayed at an even 2mgs for at least 12 months. I really have no real urge to get off of xanax because at present I am not having any problems with it. I also have sleep paralysis and my doctor already had me on Klonopin, but it didn't work as well as the xanax. I just wanted to be informed as to what would happen if I did happen to run out or decide to do something else.

Also, where would I get phenobarbtal from? I am guessing this is probably not something I would just ask the doctor for. I think the vet gave it to my cat one time. Other than that, I have no clue where to get it. But, it might be a good thing to have on hand, so if any one has a good source for it could you let me know??

I wouldn't touch phenobarbital if I were you. Even though it's not as wicked as most other barbiturates, you won't have a clue what dose to take. Read the Ashton Manual and convert from alprazolam that way - it's far safer, regardless of whether some other people don't like the woman.

I used to have problems sleeping. Pills were great and a quick fix, but always left me wanting more. But then, I was in my 20's, 30's and 40's and always busy. What I REALLY needed to do was change my lifestyle and slow down. Looking back, nothing would have changed by learning to live in the moment and quit thinking about money, and down the road, blah, blah. In the end what worked the best was just riding the night through with no sleep. I'd sleep the night after that and the next one.

I went through xanax w/d about 5 years ago and I was awake for 5 days or so. That was peanuts compared to getting off of Prednisone this past March. I had been on them for 9 months and weaned down to a small dose, then quite. It was hell. I learned that it takes the body about 2 months for the adrenal glands to start producing the correct amount of steroids again and things to function as they should.

All in all, I've found that the chemicals in our body are FAR more potent and powerful than any ever prescribed. We just all happened to be born in the era of pharmaceutical technology. An age of guinea pigs, but we made it.....

Valium *is* the most rapid acting of the bzds because of its high and immediate lipophilicity, or fat solubility and its unique ease with which it penetrates the BBB.

We have found that, despite Xanax being 10-20 times as potent, many addicts have a strong affinity for Valium because, all other (absoption) factors being equal, Valium has the fastest perceived onset of "making you feel better."

This is down to kinetics and little more; longterm, in clinical setttings the preference does not play out (Xanax is clearly most potent); however, Valium's ability to immediately enhance GABAnergic activity (along with other neuromodulatory effects) makes it a continued favorite for many addicts over Xanax to this day.

A note about my terminology - you see that I have no problems with the word "addict." I'm an addict, you're an addict. lol "I'm ok, you're ok," to steal the title of the book by the same name from the 60s.

If you're on this forum, you are likely an addict. Being cool with that is key to breaking through The Nile ( ).

Carrying the social stigma it does, it is easy to see how people would be "huff!" offended. But in the area of drug dependence: Son if you been on a substance and can't get off, there has been established a clear biochemical need for that substance, generally known as addiction. In medicine you'll often find, we have no time nor concern with social perception and prefer to call a spade a spade.

Thanks

Stits

If we were to consider other convenient routes of administration (excluding IV injection), buccal midazolam (Epistatus) is now regarded as the most rapid-acting of this class of drugs, and is used in the UK to abort seizures. I suppose it would be very effective for panic attacks as well, but is certainly not licensed for such use in the UK.

why would muscle relaxers be a problem for body building?

Resistance training of any kind relies upon muscle contraction. Muscle relaxants will fight this, trying to stop the muscle from flexing and keeping it extended. A side-effect of all skeletal muscle relaxants is weakness, as a direct result of this.

Skeletal muscle relaxants are also not selective, and will relax all skeletal muscle, not just an injured one. In this respect they can be counter-productive even when walking, as relaxed abdominal and back muscles can lead to poor posture and lack of support by the antagonistic muscle of the one in question.

That explains alot. Thanks as always my celtic friend...

what exactly prednisone prescribed for? I know it is a steriod. Let say you were only to take two 20mg doses, what type of effect would that have?

The reason I am asking, is that I have been especially achey lately and a friend suggested getting an rx for prednisone, she said it might help is that true? Does you or anyone know?

much obliged.

sweep

Pred has an anti imflamatory effect. Your aches will go away, but you will need to take it for a few days for it to work, its not a pain killer. It needs to be taken in a cycle ( for example: 7days, 14 days, 21 days, ect. ). This is definately something you want to get from your PCP and have supervised. There are alot of side effects from this medication. Its also not something your suppossed to take and stop on your own. It has to be tappered.

Neo or Nephro can probably give you lots more info then me. The above is what I remeber my doc telling me whn I took it.

Good Luck,

Sonik

thanks a bunch sonik that help alot. I think I will just deal with the achiness for now and then if it does not relieve itself go from there.

hi there, wonder if anyone has any advice. I gave up the booze 6 years ago and since then haven't taken any mood altering substances. I've starting getting panic attacks recently so my doc prescribed me some xanax. Trouble is with my addictive nature i've found that i rather like them! I've been taking between 4 and 8mg every evening for the last week and i guess what i'm asking is, can i just stop taking them or should I taper them off? (too embarrased to talk to my doc about this)
Any help would be greatly appreciated

Kind regards x