Hello - because I seem to be one of those pathetic cases that nothing works for my insomnia (ambien, restoril, seroquel, benedryl, valerian, you name it), my Neuro/Sleep doc has suggested I try the "Xyrem Success Program" (sodium oxybate, aka gamma-hydroxybutyrate), usually used for Narcoleptics but also for intractible insomnia like mine. I have read the info and this stuff sounds REAL serious - actually it's so damn controlled I almost would rather be prescribed Laudanum - laudanum has less WARNINGS on it. Looking for WISDOM from some folks like Nephro or Chemsynth, not "DUDE YOU GOT GHB???" please.

Thanks so very much - this stuff sounds scary but only if you do stupid things with it - wanted some opinions. Thanks again!

Fae

GHB is an amazing substance which used to be sold in health food stores, but succumbed to DEA Scheduling following widespread abuse. There's a great book on GHB (if you can find it) called, "GHB: The Natural Mood Enhancer - The Truth About GHB". Check out this site:

http://www.life-enhancement.com/article_template.asp?ID=76

Thank you for the article - I didn't know it could be used as an antidepressant, most of the literature says it can cause suicidal thoughts! Don't need that!

Because of all the abuse warnings in the product literature, I also checked out the Erowid vaults on GHB really just to see what dosages people were taking who had bad effects from it - and it really showed me what NOT to do - i.e. alcohol with it - I don't drink anyway so no problem there. (Erowid's a great place to learn how to avoid being stupid - heck people on there have smoked Dragon's Blood incense thinking it was some kind of "Red Rock Opium" - but I digress...)

I have learned my lesson from bad experience with dangerous meds when I had a seizure from Tramadol so I am looking for warnings of people who may have had or heard of adverse effects from therapeutic dosages of this stuff.

I don't think you have any more to worry about than with most other drugs that are new to you. However, the BNF states that benzodiazepines and opioids should be AVOIDED (red warning). Tricyclics and antipsychotics may interact, but they are not absolutely contra-indicated with sodium oxybate.

The warnings about benzodiazepines and opioids are particularly important as the drug can cause anxiety, joint pain and abdominal pain.

Here is the full list of side-effects, but remember they include every possibility these days:



I am assuming you will be starting off on a low dose and titrating upwards; this usually minimises side-effects.

Thanks Nephro. I should be clear then because I will be taking this INSTEAD of benzos, and I'm no longer taking any opiates, plus I avoid tricyclics like the plague since that in combo with the Tramadol gave me the seizure...

It appears that the side effects only occur if you don't go to bed immediately after taking it - I hope to keep the dose as low as possible to avoid side effects - the info sites also state "serious withdrawal" but the more I read the less stock I put in that one. The "bedwetting" is the one that particularly worries me. Who the heck wants that? I've never been prone to it though. What do you think?

I took GHB for years, and the worst adverse effect I ever had was nodding out at work (and I shouldn't have taken it at work!). At theraputic doses (and that is the key), there were NO adverse effects.

You probably wouldn't have seized on Tramadol if TCAs weren't involved.

It sounds like sodium oxybate may have some effect on certain smooth muscles, but if you aren't sleeping well anyway I'm sure you'll be alerted to any desire to pass urine. I still think nothing to worry about, as long as you start on low doses and wait a while before gradually increasing if needed.

Thanks again Nephro. Yes you're certainly right about the Tramadol/tri combo. The doc who gave me the Ultram KNEW I was on Doxepin so that was her bad, IMHO.

The dosage will definitely be titrated up from I believe 2.5 ml up to 9 if necessary (split dosages). I'm hoping not to have to go above 6 because it seems that's when the side effects start to kick in. Oh well if this doesn't work there's always, um, chloral hydrate maybe?

A frying pan over the head would be a good one but that might cause quite a hangover. Seriously tho, thanks for the encouragement. I was afraid I was going to hear "DON'T DO IT" about this stuff.

Correction, make that grams not ml.

Do you know the price of Xyrem in the US? In the UK a 180mL bottle of 500mg/mL solution costs Ģ360 ($720)!

If you get up to 9g daily (the maximum dose), that bottle would only last 10 days.

Thanks Neph. I did some research on that too, looks like around $250US per bottle. I have pretty good insurance and over here in the US the company that distributes the stuff (you cannot get from local pharmacy, it's centrally distributed by overnight courier) works with my insurance company themselves to get it approved. I can only hope for the best.

Besides, since I stopped most of my online Rx buying, I can afford it now. =)

Amazing, I have literally never seen ANY med that was this tightly controlled, even the strongest Opiates. But even though this is only a Sched 3, if they catch you selling it etc., they punish it as a Sched 1.

It's the only substance that is assigned Sched I and Sched III simultaneously.

Yeah I got that impression from that article you sent me. I think it was that article - I've read so much on this now. But luckily the more I read the less afraid I get. The growth hormone factor would be a nice side effect. Maybe I should start pumping iron again while I'm taking it. =)

Wow, I've been reading up on this drug. Awfully expensive for a drug that is so cheap to make.

For any one's reading pleasure:

Xyrem

Thanks for the article NotBillGates! Interesting name. Anyway I hope the heck this doesn't cost so much. Hopefully I can get some aid on it. I do agree with the dual scheduling after reading alot on Erowid vaults about the ridiculous cooked-up, goddess-knows-the-concentration stuff they're selling as GHB on the streets. I'll stick to the pharmaceutical version used as directed, thanks!

EXCELLENT - I just got a call from the central pharmacy about my Rx and my insurance approved it for me with a copay of $45.00 - quite affordable.

That's great news FaerieWitch. Please keep us updated as how it helps you with your sleep.

-=NBG=-

Looks like it's going to take about a week or more for this whole paper process before they can even send the bottle to me - I expect to have it by the end of month. Do you want to hear the step by step process as I go through it? I'll be clean, depending upon what they look at. I think really they wanna make sure you're not susceptible to diversion which I'm too old for that kinda [censored] anymore.

FaerieWitch, I would be interested in hearing the steps. From what I gathered from my reading is that only Jazz Pharmaceuticals (the only maker of the drug) actually dispenses it. I'm surpised with all the hoopla, that it's only a Schedule III drug.

NBG, I was told that the pharmacy (which is Jazz Pharmaceuticals, you are right) will be calling me this week. This is a funny med because it's a Schedule 3 when it's "Xyrem" but if you misuse it or sell it as "GHB" then you will be punished with Schedule 1 penalties.

I know I would be interested in hearing your experience. Insomnia absolutely sucks, and it sounds like you have a BAD case. Best of luck to you FW!

Oh...I forgot to add..you aren't the only one who has to deal with that "paperwork process". My pain mgmt doc made me contact an ex-FBI agent who now does background checks, and get mine checked for diversion purposes. That was $200 wasted. I haven't even had a speeding ticket!

They made YOU pay for the background check? That blows Aardvark wind! (a cute way of saying "that sucks")

Definitly. Keep us up to date

UPDATE: The pharmacy called me today, they just reiterated what I'd already read in the program packet and said make sure you don't mix it with alcohol - I'm not a drinker so no worries there. They will ship it tomorrow and it will arrive by FedEx on Friday. I will have to sign for it. Sounds familiar...

Yep. They made me pay for it. The retired agent then sent my pain doc a certficate saying this "An extensive background investigation has been conducted concerning Mr. Smith. The investigation revealed nothing negative concerning Mr. Smith, nor did it reveal anything that may concern a physician who would prescribe any type of medicine for Mr. Smith."

Anywho...Keep us posted on how the Xyrem works. I bet you are due for a good nights sleep!

OK I received the package this morning - it had 2 bottles of medicine (2 x 10oz.) plus little mixing cups and and a syringe to draw the liquid, I'm to take 2.25 g diluted in 2 oz. water and then (I'm not really sure on the reasoning for this, but) set an alarm for 2.5 - 4 hours later then take the 2nd 2.25 g dose. I'm kinda hoping that I won't need the 2nd dose, but the pharmacy guy seemed to think it important (I only half-understood his reasoning, even tho I'm no dummy). We'll see. After reading all the horror stories I'm NOT going to play around with the dosages on my own. I'll update again after I've tried it tonite.

Oh and the $45 copay was INCLUDING the overnight shipping, so I'm quite happy with that!

Allow me to share my experience after using GHB for about 3 years... GHB induced a very deep, restful (stage 4) sleep, but metabolized off after about 2-3 hours - at which time I would wake up (usually full of energy). I always needed the second dose to get back to sleep. As a matter of fact, I began to miss getting a full night's uninterrupted sleep!

I think you'll quickly discover that you don't need an alarm clock for the second does. Instead, you will invariably wake up after a couple of hours. Please let us know how it works out for you. I predict you're going to be completely amazed at how well you sleep, and how good you're going to feel!

Thanks Presto, I haven't known what it is to have a full night's uninterrupted sleep in years so that thought in and of itself doesn't bother me. I was kinda figuring I'd probably wake up on my own as soon as it metabolized because my mind just doesn't wanna sleep on its own it seems. I do hope I get the energized thing the next day like people say, that would be a great benefit!

Well, day one, no go. It made me seriously dizzy after about 20 minutes but when I laid down I did not fall asleep, and even 3 hours later when I took the 2nd dose I did not sleep. So I'll give it the rest of the weekend at this dose then call the doc Monday if it doesn't start working and see what we do next, since this was just the starting dose of 2.25g (x2).

With how dizzy it made me I'm surprised it did not work, because that's usually the kickstart that makes me able to sleep (for one or two or hours) from Ambien or Soma.

In case anyone's still interested, day 2 I did get some sleep (about 2-3 hours per dose, woke up on my own, no alarm needed, Presto77 you were right) - but that can also likely be attributed to the fact that I'd had NO sleep the previous night.

Am definitely getting a, let's say, "hyper-peristaltic" reaction to this. Not sure if that's due to the sodium content sucking all the water out of my system into the digestive tract... (I can feel a dehydrating effect from this, so drinking extra water during the day).