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#63362 - 09/26/04 08:23 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Member
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 117
Loc: Where it all Begins
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Please leave those Best if kept off the board '60s album covers off all of your responses! Tramadol is chemically unrelated to opioids, and anything else for that matter, so the answer to your question is no, it would not show up. It is an agonist at the mu opioid receptor. Actually, when you take Tramadol you are taking two forms of the drug, which are mirror images of each other - they have the same bonds and same chemical structure, but they stick out differently into space. One of these forms, or enantiomers, binds the mu opioid receptor, giving it some painkilling properties. It is metabolized by the body - the primary metabolite actually binds the receptor 600-6000 times better than Tramadol itself (the actual increase in affinity depends on the assay!). This enantiomer also blocks the uptake of some neurotransmitters. The other enantiomer doesn't bind opiate receptors, but also blocks the uptake of neurotransmitters. This may or may not have painkilling properties on its own. It likely does. Taking the therapeutic dose of Tramadol, from 50-100mg, yields little euphoria. Taking a little more can enhance the potential for euphoria, but taking too much will block neurotransmitter uptake to such an extent that it will make you feel very bad. It's not in danger of being scheduled. I realize this is off-topic, but if you're interested in Tramadol, you might want to know these things.
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#63367 - 10/05/04 04:52 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Threadhead
Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 879
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Quote:
Please leave those Best if kept off the board '60s album covers off all of your responses!
Tramadol is chemically unrelated to opioids, and anything else for that matter, so the answer to your question is no, it would not show up.
It is an agonist at the mu opioid receptor. Actually, when you take Tramadol you are taking two forms of the drug, which are mirror images of each other - they have the same bonds and same chemical structure, but they stick out differently into space. One of these forms, or enantiomers, binds the mu opioid receptor, giving it some painkilling properties. It is metabolized by the body - the primary metabolite actually binds the receptor 600-6000 times better than Tramadol itself (the actual increase in affinity depends on the assay!).
This enantiomer also blocks the uptake of some neurotransmitters. The other enantiomer doesn't bind opiate receptors, but also blocks the uptake of neurotransmitters. This may or may not have painkilling properties on its own. It likely does.
Taking the therapeutic dose of Tramadol, from 50-100mg, yields little euphoria. Taking a little more can enhance the potential for euphoria, but taking too much will block neurotransmitter uptake to such an extent that it will make you feel very bad. It's not in danger of being scheduled.
I realize this is off-topic, but if you're interested in Tramadol, you might want to know these things.
well theres two answers then isnt there. chemically, no because its unrelated to the morphine-like structure that hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, heroin, hydromorphone, codeine and others share. but you could say that about methadone too. methadone is also totally chemically unrelated, yet it is a potent mu agonist. Tramadol to is a mu agonist, or more accurately, its metabolite is really more of a mu opioid agonist. in fact, Tramadol's metabolite has 200 times more affinity for opioid receptors than Tramadol its self, so once its metabolized, it very much can become an opioid for many people. on Tramadol i even get an itchy nose and all the symtoms of an opioid. however, it feels more "delayed and time released", there is no rush with taking Tramadol pills. instead the onset is more gradual and so is the rest of the effects. i like it that way though, lasts longer. Tramadol feels better and kills more pain than other opoiods, at least for me it does. Other opioids only kill pain better than Tramadol for like the 20 minutes they peak, then they instantly become worse than Tramadol. so basically for me, 90% of the time, Tramadol works better than the other opioids, and the other opioids only work better during that little 10 or 20 minute peak.
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#63370 - 10/06/04 05:50 AM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Member
Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Quote:
Please leave those Best if kept off the board '60s album covers off all of your responses!
Tramadol is chemically unrelated to opioids, and anything else for that matter, so the answer to your question is no, it would not show up.
It is an agonist at the mu opioid receptor. Actually, when you take Tramadol you are taking two forms of the drug, which are mirror images of each other - they have the same bonds and same chemical structure, but they stick out differently into space. One of these forms, or enantiomers, binds the mu opioid receptor, giving it some painkilling properties. It is metabolized by the body - the primary metabolite actually binds the receptor 600-6000 times better than Tramadol itself (the actual increase in affinity depends on the assay!).
This enantiomer also blocks the uptake of some neurotransmitters. The other enantiomer doesn't bind opiate receptors, but also blocks the uptake of neurotransmitters. This may or may not have painkilling properties on its own. It likely does.
Taking the therapeutic dose of Tramadol, from 50-100mg, yields little euphoria. Taking a little more can enhance the potential for euphoria, but taking too much will block neurotransmitter uptake to such an extent that it will make you feel very bad. It's not in danger of being scheduled.
I realize this is off-topic, but if you're interested in Tramadol, you might want to know these things.
well theres two answers then isnt there. chemically, no because its unrelated to the morphine-like structure that hydrocodone, oxycodone, morphine, heroin, hydromorphone, codeine and others share. but you could say that about methadone too. methadone is also totally chemically unrelated, yet it is a potent mu agonist. Tramadol to is a mu agonist, or more accurately, its metabolite is really more of a mu opioid agonist. in fact, Tramadol's metabolite has 200 times more affinity for opioid receptors than Tramadol its self, so once its metabolized, it very much can become an opioid for many people. on Tramadol i even get an itchy nose and all the symtoms of an opioid. however, it feels more "delayed and time released", there is no rush with taking Tramadol pills. instead the onset is more gradual and so is the rest of the effects. i like it that way though, lasts longer. Tramadol feels better and kills more pain than other opoiods, at least for me it does. Other opioids only kill pain better than Tramadol for like the 20 minutes they peak, then they instantly become worse than Tramadol. so basically for me, 90% of the time, Tramadol works better than the other opioids, and the other opioids only work better during that little 10 or 20 minute peak.
Thanks for putting Stardog's post into perspective, Tone - Stardog can get a little obtuse sometimes. But you should also tell them what you have mentioned in other posts, how some people freak out on it, especially if they're taking MAOIs. It helps or is neutral for just about everyone, but I think you have some valuable info about the minority who don't take to it.
Noah
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#63374 - 10/07/04 05:29 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Banned: posting e-mail sources
Registered: 04/25/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Louisiana
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Quote:
are you sure that study applies to Tramadol specifically? because other studies say opioids in general work better in women, so it could just be that.
Its for sure very slow and gradual and with a long plateau. 2.5 hours to peak plasma? that sounds about right, although once someone takes it every day, they feel it kick in faster.
I'm almost positive that the study regarding Tramadol that I mentioned, was just regarding Tramadol and not other opioids. It seems to me women absorb most pharms more efficient then men, from what I've read.
I will try to find the site and post the link. The only problem I have had with Tramadol is I seemed to build it quick tolerance, more so than with true opiods (hydro,etc)and other pharms. I know tolerance develops with any substance, just seemed like within 2-3 weeks, I had to double my dose ( which I started at 50mg, then went up to 100mg) to achieve the same affect. I'll try to find that link and post. Take care!
Yertman
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#63382 - 10/12/04 04:37 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Veteran
Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 492
Loc: southwest US
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Quote:
well, i find that Tramadol does have some tolerance that builds up, cuz it got weaker. i also find it to be much better than hydrocodone. and Tramadol may actually be a worse drug for long term use and its withdrawal is worse
tone,
What do you mean by "may actually be a worse drug for long term use"? I just got put on Tramadol, 4x/day and may be on it long term. What are the downsides?
Thanks,
D.
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#63385 - 10/13/04 08:26 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Threadhead
Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 879
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This is someting im still trying to figure out. so far i can say slow taper, and it seems when you get down to one pill the next step is 3/4ths of a pill for a while, then 2/4ths, then 1/4th before bed. maybe hydrocodone replacement wouldnt be a bad idea, even though this seems oppisite and hydro is considered more addictive than Tramadol, but if thats done, one should taper down first then take a LITTLE hydro, not just switch to a load of hydro. Kratom will cut withdrawal at least in half if not more, but it may loss effectiveness after a few days and would have to be used in spurts between Tramadol steps. too bad ibogaine is illegal in the US and a few other contries and obscure in the rest of the world, because from what i read, its more effective than what we are lead to believe, but still of course doesnt work for 100% of people.
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#63387 - 10/17/04 08:39 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Fly Girl
Registered: 12/03/02
Posts: 1230
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
anyone no where to find Adolonta 150mg retard.
I got some from Biotran a while back, don't know if he still carries it.
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#63390 - 10/17/04 09:08 PM
Re: Tramadol (Ultram)
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Threadhead
Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 879
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Quote:
I'm curious, if Tramadol's theraputic effect is similar to Codeine in potency, and it is acknowledged that it has potential for dependence and withdrawl, why is it not a Scheduled controlled substance?
Well, dependance and withdrawal doesnt seem to be an issue in if it should be controlled, look at paxil and others.
Tramadol was reviewed by some board, i forgot which, whoever reviews these sorts of things, and they decided not to make it controlled. When one takes Tramadol the onset is drawn out over like 2 hours, so you go from no opioid activity, to its full potential in 2 hours or so. with hydrocodone and oxycodone, once the onset begins, you go up to its full effects in like 15 minutes, so theres more of the "rush" factor. like 7 or 8 times more if you go by how long the onset is. In the prescribing info monograph of Tramadol it notes:
Quote:
Part of Tramadol's activity and some extension of the duration of µ-opioid activity. Delayed µ-opioid activity is believed to reduce a drug's abuse liability.
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