I know buprenorphine and full agonists is a no-no. But does anybody know if it's ok to combine buprenorphine with nalbuphine?

I would think it is ok,I have been in thoose thoughts also so i checked in wikpedia and from what i got there i think they should work good together.

And i think in such small quantities as there are in temgesic it isnt that power full as an antagonist. There where some pills that hold the same ing as nalbuphine, and heroin addicts used them along with some antihistamine and it was supposed to be a good substitute for them.

google and search for blues or T:s.. There are some med shop that have them without naloxone.I think it might have been elite.... But why go with temgesic when there are subutex for the 5.:th of the price?

I just got a shipment of temgesic, and it looked like the real deal, but when I took them (2 tabs under tongue) they dissolve like instantly. They also didn't taste like the other real ones that I know were genuine. The others I once had took about 5 minutes.

It seems like they take away a bit of WD's, but I still have the runs, etc. And never did when I tapered off Norco before.

You guys think these are fake, given the info I told you?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

I would guess it should be ok, that would be a most interesting combo.

so basically they sell fake meds and do not order the temgesic from them, it either doesnt get to you or it is fake??

who sold fakes?

if a person is taking 8-10 hyrdos (10-325) per day, how many temgesic would it take to get through wd's and also get off the temgesic.? I am so confused from all the difference in doseage comments and I could use some solid info. I want to get off everything safely and of course I dont want to suffer anymore than I have too. Thanks for the help.

I reckon just 2 or 3 tablets per day would see you right regarding withdrawal symptoms. As for getting off them, it's going to be a tapering process similar to a benzodiazepine situation. Bear in mind that the Temgesic 0.2mg are very tiny.

Thanks nephro, I hope to be sucessful with 30 temgesic's. I am also tapering off the hydro as much as I can stand, hope to be down to 60-80 mg/day before I start the temgesic. Tapering off hydro is slow torture in my opinion. But I think it will be worth the effort in the long run.

I was taking 20-30 hydro's per day some days in my peak. I finally got on sub last year, I was taking a lot of sub for a few weeks, like 16-24mg, but managed on 16mg for a while, then 8mg and am now at about 4mg per day for maintence. Its so cheap that I hesitate to taper off of it but I plan to very soon. 8mg of sub is a lot ! That would probably have been enough for me to get through the WD's with. you can also break them in 1/2 and take 4mg in the morning and 4mg in the evening.
For me, sub was a lifesaver to get me off hydro. I still crave that feeling of feeling nice, hydro always made me feel great in the morning. But then addiction comes so gotta stay away from it.

I dont know how people can stay on low doseages of hydro for long term due to the tolerance build up and the natural urges that tell you must take more today than you did per day 6 months age to get the same amount of pain relief. Thus addiction sets in. I am going to ask my pc for another shot of cortizone in my knee next month, at least that gives some relief. By the way, does anybody know exactly how many temgesic it takes to equal one sub? Or are they the same strentgth? Obviously I am not getting the tems from my pc.

I went on sub to get rid of a 6-hydro-a-day dependence. I started on 16mg a day, but quickly realized that 10mg a day would keep me out of withdrawal. when I try to go down to 8, I can feel that old horrible withdrawal feeling creeping in.

my point - how could .2 mg do anything? that would be like me taking 50-60 of these a day! they must be a different formula or something if they have any effect at all.

has anyone ever successfully used this tiny dose and succeeded in keeping withdrawals at bay. after 3 years on this board, I have never seen a success story with .2mg temgesic, so I am really curious.

as far as the .2 being fake, how could you even tell at such a tiny dose. that would be just a crumb 1/40th of my 8mg pill.

i had a friend who as maintained on 3mg methadone per day. some people just need that little nudge on the receptor--or something else less pharmacologic.

chemsynth

For those with no tolerance, 0.2mg is usually very effective. It is indicated for severe pain.

I have found that the temgesic works as well as the sub. I would take between 2 or 3 at a time of the .2mg. maybe twice a day for 3 or 4 days and then start to wean down. The pills are really small and orange. They also were not as hard on my stomach as the sub. I believe it is a different formula but it does work.

That's really good news. I've never seen an orange Temgesic pill though. The formula is different in that there is no naloxone on Temgesic.

Were they round tablets?

Yes . They were very small and round. I got them twice. Once from habeeb back a few years ago and them some from India. You dissolve them under your tongue. Right there is no naloxone in them. They work very well.

so you were able to overcome withdrawal on about 1mg a day of the temgesic, or were you not an opiate user and using temgesic for pain?

I was using them for withdrawal from opiates. It took about a week to 10 days.
Yes give or take a pill or 2 depending on how you feel.

When i did the sub i also was started on 16mg, It was to strong and made me sick so i broke them in half. I am not an expert on this but It seems that 1mg, of temgesic is like 6 to 8mg. of sub. Hope that helps.

so there has to be a difference between usa made subutex and the overseas temgesic. interesting.

Yes, and i made a mistake. The subutex you put under your tongue but the temgesic you swallow. Its absorbed in the stomach.

No there is no difference; this effect is due to the fact the more buprenorphine you take, the more it starts blocking. So 1mg may have the same effect in preventing the reappearance of withdrawal than 8mg, but the difference is that on 1mg or less you could still possibly abuse other opioids. So doctors want you on massive doses to keep up that blocking effect. Money may also be a factor, but I would be disgusted to find out that was the case.

The Temgesic and Sub are made by the same company. There's no way they can formulate the drug differently.

The other possibility is that oral naloxone is having more of an effect than we all thought.

Isn't there a difference between the subutex and pure Buprenorphine? I thought that subutex had naloxone in it but pure buprenophine did not. The reason i ask is that the back quite a few years ago there were only 2 places in NYC that used Buprenophine. The doctor i went to did it intravenous and decided not to use naloxone. Then there was the sub program that was started years later and i thought it figures when they finally get around to make it more available for people they discontinue the intravenous bup. and give people something that will make them really ill if they use. So the doctors don't have to be so involved. Not as much follow up? Am i completely wrong on this?

I had it wrong. Its Suboxone that has them mixed together. I have such a bad memory!

I take subutex, which has no naloxone in it.

buprenorphine itself has both agonistic and antagonistic properties.

nephro - your post makes perfect sense. the more sub you take, the more of the antagonist you are getting also.

since it is used to avert other opiate use, it stands to reason that they would start people on a high enough dose to ensure that other drugs could not break thru, when possibly 1 or 2 mg would actually be enough to stop withdrawal. so the low doses of temgesic could work to stop withdrawal, but not necessarily stop a person from taking and feeling the effect of other opiates.

I sure do learn alot from you about this stuff I'm taking!

every once in a while I'm tempted to take a hydro to see if I could feel relief of back pain (or anything) from it, but can't bring myself to do it. it would be horrible to end up taking both, when defeating the hydro addiction was the whole idea with this sub program.

I've used rx strength motrin and naprosyn for my back, but plain ole aspirin seems to do me the best.

Was the IV buprenorphine for pain relief or to treat withdrawal?

It was used to treat withdrawal. This was back when they offered the rapid detox, where they keep you a sleep through the whole thing. I don"t know if thats an option anymore.

It is still available, but is very expensive and can be dangerous with a variety of cardiovascular complications which is why it is done on an in-patient basis.

They still offer rapid detox as far as I know, but I never knew they would use IV buprenorphine. In fact the one below actually offer their rapid detox to get people off buprenorphine! They use a general anaesthetic and then medically induce withdrawal using an antagonist to accelerate the process.

Then again buprenorphine can precipitate withdrawal in opioid dependent patients, so that may have been the basis for the clinic you went to.