well all, I caved. I actually was fealing pretty "off" today as I worked all night and slept ok when I got home but I still felt like I was in hydro WD even though I was done my sub taper I thought, I had the shakes and was having trouble just being me, etc etc.
Well, I come across the street to take a break as my neighbors were having a party and wife and kids were there. I thought my fealing bad was a combo of an all nighter at work (I also worked all day, then had to come back 6 hours later for another 8 hour shift) my body was fealing yucky. So get this, I come home and try and shove some food into me and I get an automated phone call from my local pharm that my order is ready and I have until so and so date to pick it up, about a week ago I called in for a re-fill of my 7.5/500's just to have something as I had been fealing bad, before the call I called my sub doc and left a message that I need to see him again and explained that I probably tapered off the sub to quick as I am ready for a supervised taper with his schedule. So after the pharms call I called and asked what was ready and she said my hydro that I called in last week, well, when I called it in I had no re-fills left so they had to fax the doc and I was told they would not re-fill again unless I came in and talked with the doc (he is on that I am dependent on it) but he did allow the re-fill, any others I have to come in to see him so I thought he didn't approve it last week. Well, in typical addict style I raced over to the pharm, got my hydro and even talked to the pharmacist about the situation as she asked if the sub they were scripting me was related to that. I was honest as could be and said I had tried to come off and got myself into this mess and she was actually very understanding. So I got home and took 1 hydro and within 30 minutes felt great! Yes I caved but my lower back was killing me and I had aches all over and even slight cold symptoms. I was definatly in some type of WD. If it helps me function for a tough week until I can get to the sub doc so be it, but I learned some tough love as if I knew that re-fill was available last week, I would have gotten it and run out by now. Now, I understand the severity of my problem and am planning to go back to the sub doc and confess as he is really understanding. I am going to ask for him to supervise my taper off sub, the correct amount, no lies to save money anymore. I truelly want off these opiates as I have a valium tolerance as well to deal with. I am ashamed AND suprised it came to this as I took my last 2mg of sub the other night and thought I would be a fine Wd process. lesson learned for me. Sorry to dissapoint ya all but I was desperate. Wish me luck and I will update as my situation continues.
Even if I have to take 1mg of sub a day for a month to taper down, then .5 and .2 or whatever it takes, I am doing it, no more fealing like [censored] and having to medicate like this. I have a tough week comming up and will only take a hydro if I really really can't make it through the day. I am going to try the best I can. Sorry for another long post.
Wish me luck. I sure do need it.

KUDOS FOR YOUR HONESTY DUDE! I wish you all the best and keep trying. My hats off to anybody that can deal with chronic pain without the hydro to help them function. I am looking at knee surgery in a month or two and I hope to be able to walk without pain. I am not looking forward to the wd's but I dont want to be on the pain meds all my life. I also have back pain but it doesnt bother me 24/7 like my knee. You are not alone for sure.

Well I think almost everyone here that takes or has taken Hydro will know exactly what your feeling! Can you tell me how long you were on sub? Was it suboxone or subtex? I hear that suboxone wd is awful and that hydro wd is better to deal with. To taper of hydro is much better than sub.
I read that here on a thread. Good luck!!

It is said that "relapse is a part of the disease of addiction"......therefore it is to be expected sooner or later.
When it does happen, the first thing to do is to be honest with your support, whether that is your sponsor, friends, family, doctors, all of the above, and most, most, MOST importantly, be honest with yourself.
I may get [censored] for saying this, but maybe you should go straight to your nearest Narcotics anonymous meeting (some places they have meetings all around the clock). Use their support and follow their advice.
I am positive there will be AT LEAST one person there who will know exactly what you are going through. A counselor or sponsor in the group could possibly even call you a sub-doct they are familiar with who can call in an emergency script of sub to your nearest 24hr pharm.
Im recomending NA because it seems just from your post (and I could just be reading too much in to it), that you are lacking comprehensive, consistent support for the EMOTIONAL ISSUES associated with physical and/or physhological addiction to any substance.
While chatting online can make you feel better, it is no substitute for real, live, human contact: compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding, commonality, inspiration, guidance, and yup, even HUGS!
There is no such thing as a perfect struggle.
My thoughts are with you and I wish you the best!

Do not be ashamed, you are in pain and hydro is a powerful drug. You are obviously needing support and help and posting your experience on here can hopefully get you some feedback. I have been in chronic back pain since an accident I had over a year ago, I often day dream what life would be like without pain. I suggest you be as honest and open as you where with your post to someone (Dr.) or not. Good luck and remember tomorrow is a new day.

The first step back is honesty. I sent you a PM with a unique online addiction recovery resource, since it isn't the main purpose of this board . . . I wanted you to have an additional resource (it is NOT a required NA or 12 step program or anything!) They're NOT selling you anything - it's just "plain ol' people" struggling like you are rigtt now.

Good luck and all my best to you.


Edited to add: I don't know if your sub doctor is an addiction specialist but they are trained to understand that people sometimes take two steps back for one step forward. DO NOT BE ASHAMED. He's heard it all before!

if you were on 8mg or higher for most of the tim eyou for sure went to fast. For example I was on 3mg for a couple months, never anything higher except for the first week. You need to take it slow, your body will keep adjusting, and you will have some wd type stuff as you decrease(depression etc) but its worth it if you want to gradually reduce it and get off.

thanks guys! I am doing ok and really trying to take as little of the hydro as I can. Funny as I can take 1 7.5/500 and feal ok when before, when I was really up there I needed 3 10/325's do even do anything.
I was taking sub since january and I guess underestimated its power. I am just waiting on a response from the sub doc now.
Does anyone know much about seroqual ? I know its main use is for bipoler disease (which I don't have) but my sub doc gave it to me to try and help sleep, it does help as I have used it the last few days but I am wondering if it is a dangerous drug. It sure does relax me at night before bed but I don't want to wind up running out and then going through yet another WD.
I need to change my screen name to "broken record" as I keep relapsing and or trying to self medicate.
Thanks for the support and yes I got the link from the PM, thank you, I am goin to check it out later!

My sub doc prescribed Seroquel for sleep as well. I found it to be too strong sometimes, carried over to morning, so had to reduce the dose. It doesn't work as well as Ambien or those kinda things but doesn't have the bad stuff of those either. Just take it early evening and keep the dosage low (for me, 25-50mg is all I can handle) or you'll have trouble getting up the next morning.

I have not heard of any issues of Seroquel causing w/d, but I have had reactions to it if taking 100mg or more (I am very petite though), I felt like I was having a heart attack. 100mg is not considered a high dose of this med so I didn't worry TOO much.

I'm afraid abrupt discontinuation of quetiapine (Seroquel) after prolonged use is very likely to precipitate a withdrawal syndrome, but expect it to be a lot more weird than that associated with opioids!

Gradual reduction is, as always, the key.

Actually I have researched seroquel and nowhere has anything or anyone said it is habit forming or you will have withdrawal upon discontinuation. The only risks are at higher doses, it can mess with your body I guess. MY doc gave it to me as well, but I cant take much of it or I feel knocked out the next day. I can take about 1/4 of a 25mg and that does the trick, I sleep like a baby.(only taken it about 4 times). as far as the sub goes, when your body continually receives lower and lower doses of the med it adjusts itself, when you keep taking more and more away slowly that is your way to avoid what happened to you. When you do this you are having mini little withdrawal when you reduce anyway and get down to about.3 or .25 and you shouldnt probably notice anything. There is nothing wrong even if you were on it for years, as long as you ALWAYS take more and more away from your body and dont add more. Then your body expects you to keep taking it away and your receptors will adjust likewise. nonetheless it isnt close to a full blown opiate withdrawal.

It is an atypical antipsychotic, and all these drugs should be reduced gradually to avoid a withdrawal syndrome.

There is a difference in the medical field between habit-forming drugs, which have reinforcement properties, and drugs such as antpsychotics which cause withdrawal symtoms upon discontinuation.

It has, however, been investigated as an aid to opioid withdrawal.

thats interesting, as far as sleep ???(for opiod withdrawal) I understand what you saying, but I dont think that anyone would be taking this as a daily thing. And from what I gather those who take seroquel daily do so throughout the day. I think taking it for sleep is different as far as creating any negative effects.

Yes, the main function of quetiapine is as an antipsychotic, and sufferers of schizophrenia would be taking up to 750mg daily, in divided doses.

Where I live, it is not licensed for anything other than such types of psychoses, and as such insufficient evidence exists for unlicensed uses, eg. insomnia, narcotic withdrawal.

All I can say, is I wish you the best and don't be to hard on yourself...if you really want it, theres not a doubt in my mind you can do it...

thanks, I am going to try and taper the last bit of hydro I have, I took 2 7.5/500's this morning and can probably make it through the day. I feal fine now (go figure with the hydro in me).
Can anyone, give me a taper schedule with the 19 7.5/500's I have left ??
I won't no part of Tramadol, will a taper really work ?? I never had luck with anything and am so week minded that I am tempted to take some hydro even now just to help my mood.
I am taking only 50mg of the seroqual, but I may stop as I have only taken it for 3-4 days now and it may contribute to my morning anxiety (I wake up all nervous and bugged out, the hydro cures that right away)
Thanks for the support!

50mg seems like a ton of it. you shouldnt need that to sleep. try about 10mg

a ton ? Ok, I actually would like to not take any as I think it may contribute to my morning anxiety, it sure does make me loopy about 30 minutes after taking it.
I am finding that this is a test of wills, I am so tempted to take some hydro now for a very light pain but am going to try my best to stick out my taper and hopefully I can stop finally. If I can make it through a day on 15mg of hydro then I should be able to quit and not have physicall WD's, then its mental I know so I will have to deal with that by trying to "tough" it out.

What you are doing takes mountains of courage. My hat's off to you. I wish you all the luck!
Sis

thank you, I am so tempted to take a few hydro's to get that old warm and fluffy fealing, but I just took some advil for a slight back ache so I feal better, at this point, it seams to be a matter of me just being tough minded which is hard for me.
But I know that if I take more hydro, I will run out sooner and I have learned from the past that you can't just say "ah, I will be ok" because I know if I run out before the weekend and am going up in my dose, I will really regret it.
Mind over matter.

Can you go take a walk? Go to a movie? Anything to distract you and get you out of the house? I'm sorry if you have said in an earlier post that you are in too much pain to walk, or go out. I just read the last several.
Sis

unfortunatly, I am at work and basically am chained to my desk for the day so thats why I have the time on my hands as some days like today are slow but I still have to sit here.
I just had lunch and am still hungry, I knew this was going to happen, I am really craving a hydro.

What kind of work do you do? Do you have to deal with the public? You must have some privacy or you wouldn't be able to post on this website. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable posting here if I was at work. If you do have some privacy why don't you go to some website that shows funny videos. You know what they say about laughter being the best med! It's true in a way. It certainly never hurts! Someone sent me an email recently including a video of a little monkey taunting some tiger cubs - teen cubs - but still! He was pulling tails, slapping faces and grabbing ears! It was too cute! Anyway. Try to find something funny to distract you. Hope it works!
Sis

I am not telling you how to live your life, but the whole point of being on the sub is to work on yourself and learn how to deal with cravings. That is why docs turn to it because it is pretty much non euphoric and you can take it once a day and get used to basically not taking pills all day long etc. So maybe u arent ready to kick it for good, maybe you need to be on sub longer to work on yourself. As long as you are taking less and less dont worry about how long you take it. as far as the seroquel goes, I mean its not like it makes you feel good or gives you a buzz, so try taking about 10mg to sleep. The times I took it to sleep I took 25mg the first time and felt like i slept for 50 hrs when i woke up it made me too groggy. So basically the other few times I took it, I ended up taking 1/4 of a 25mg pill and it worked perfect, put me to sleep in about an hour and kept me asleep. The only reason I took it was because I knew I had stuff to do the next day and didnt want my mind racing and not letting me sleep.

my mind is racing all the time so that is definatly part of the sleep problem. You are right about the sub, I thought after being on it for so long (since january) that I really needed to taper off and would be ok, well boy did I learn a real lesson. I figured that I should not be taking it every day anymore or I would be on it forever, I even went to an every other day schedule for a while and since I was able to go 2-3 days without any sometimes, I assumed it would be a piece of cake when I stopped especially at 2-4mg per day for a week. What I crave is the "cure", if you feal bad at anytime, you can easily take a hydro and feal better, at least for me I could. The smallest headache or bodyache, pop a hydro, groggy and fealing like not getting outa bed, take a hydro etc. etc.
Now I am having a heck of a time reaching my sub doc, what kind of doc is closed for 3 days ?
No replies to my many messages or anything, I feal abandoned now. Its definatly my fault but honestly, I am fearing the worst so I am thinking about getting my records as I need updated ones to get a consult now, and getting some hydro

Do not believe everything you read here on these boards, concerning suboxone use. Trust me, there is so much disinformation, I doubt a hard core heroin addict would even consider sub use after reading this board. But, it works. It truly works. Take Backpain, for example. He was on sub since Jan. No probs. Less than a week off of it, back to hydro.

Hoping someone can offer some words of advice...I'm trying to kick the hydros. However, don't know how to approach a sub doc. Do you just find a sub doc and tell them you want to stop? Is there a proper way to handle it?

I've taken large daily doses of hydro for a few years now...I'm talking enough to call it a pretty big problem.

I'm scared to stop, but know I can't live this way anymore.

What's the best way to do this? Do I tell the sub doc that I've been buying online? Any advice will be appreciated.

rich, in my experiance with my sub doc who was pretty liberal, I was totally honest with him about how I bought hydro online and developed a bad habit. I did try to call a bunch of sub docs and found that a lot want to have you stay for like a 1/2 a day for a "course" or them telling you how bad this habit is (which we already know), but other sub docs like mine were great so you may want to call a few and feal them out. There is a suboxene doctor locater where you put your zip code in and it lists all the sub docs in your area, not sure what the site is but you can google suboxene and it should pop up right away.
Good luck and don't worry, if you find the right doc he will be understanding and you should be able to spill your guts to him.

from what I can gather from talking to my doc and seeing most of the people there, a lot of most are people that are in legal trouble or something like that that go to this type of doc. I always see people in there with notepads and other stuff and they have to mark everything they do down. Cause I once asked my doc if he gets super bored because I saw him every 2 weeks and he would check me out real quick and ask how I was doing and ask if I want to reduce the dose etc, and that was it. He told me that I was a rare exception to the people he see's and that most are extremely complicated and cant keep up with staying clean or reducing their dosage etc. So when someone comes in and truely is willing to do what it takes for themselves I think docs appreciate that.

I don't think the average criminal/drug addict can afford a sub doc. It appears to me like more of white collar treatment--plus coourts don't senyence people to suboxone maintenance. Though maybe they are trying to avoid legal trouble, by staying clean for parol, getting a reccommend from the doc etc.

What I mean is that most of his cases are complicated in nature. I.E. someone that was caught stealing to afford their habit or someone that got pulled over with drugs or someone who has ruined the relationship with wife or family so much that they got checked in. There are of course people that go in there on their own behalf but not the rule. And if you did ever check out positive for drugs you wont be allowed back in. As far as getting off it, the lower you are on initailly has a big effect I would assume, the lower amount initially the better. There aere thousands and thousands of people on the medication that dont even think twice about getting off it. If you want to get off it you can do it the right way. And I have done both hydro and sub, and getting off the sub withdrawal wise was way way eisier than hydro.

I'm hoping for some help. I do not know how to start a new topic, and this topic is fairly close. I am fed up. I am tired of being in pain, but I am more tired being on pain killers (opiates). I TRULY believe that ultimately I will be able to deal with my pain better with something along the lines like Ultram ER, which does NOT give you a buzz, just helps control the pain. I realize it does not get rid of the pain completely, but it helps.

Anyway, I just want OFF of all the opiates. Here's the problem. I CANNOT MISS WORK for the WD's and I know I'm going to get hit. I need to minimize those. I have Kratom powder ( I have not tried it yet as I still have my hydros) but have heard both good and bad about it. I have also heard contradictory reports of Ultram helping with the WD's. I DO NOT want any other prescription meds to help me off (sub, methadone, valium, etc.)

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, any help as to what I can do to minimize the WD's. I soooo want off of this stuff. I am so tired of being dependent on a drug. I am tired of the pain winning. I WANT TO WIN, not the pain.

I don't think you should be ashamed, you're being truthfull and confronting things head on.

All my best!

Kratom will definatly help. Can you schedule to stop when you don't have to goto work for a few days ? Maybe stop on a friday, tough it out and then you have the whole weekend! This way, monday will be the 4th day if you stop on a friday and you will pretty much be done with the worts part.
Have stuff like imodium ready and some cough medicane. If you have access to benzo's that would help too.
Its hard for me to say what else because I have suboxene which pretty much kills all hydro WD.
Good luck either way, I have been down your road and its tough but can be done.

If someone took a 4 mg dose of sub, how long will it take to get out of system and to start taking their pain meds.I tried sub, a 4 mg dose for two days but it hasnt helped the pain.Do I have to wait 36 hrs before I can begin my pain meds again.I wanted to give it a try, but it hasnt helped with pain control.Thanks for any advice.

no, you can start immediately, you just will not get the full benefits of the pain killer you are prescribed. just do not take too much because you are not feeling it as normal due to the sub occupying your receptors. by day three or 4 you should be getting close to the full benefits of your painkiller again.