Now that HGH is available in the US I am planning to use it. I would like to know if anyone out there has used the Serono Saizen freeze dried HGH. It comes with a dilutent and must be reconstituted prior to injection. The recommended dosabe being .03ml 4X a week. Anyone?

Jane

I assume you are a female, from a friend I knew who took it, 1 I.U. per day seemed to work great. Also, how available in U.S.? I do know of some places that sell it, since a 90 day supply is legal, but not many and not at that great of a price.

OB

I'd like to know too if you don't mind sharing.

What is HGH (Human Growth Hormone?) And why would you need it? I know bodybuilders use these types of things, but why would a woman take it? I'm interested in knowing more...

So am I (though I'm male).

It is supposedly an "anti aging" treatment. And it will do miraculous things like maintain muscle mass, decrease wrinkles and generally keep your body (and mind) looking and feeling younger than its years.

I believe Ed McMahon (from Johhny Carson show) has been using for years. Getting treatments in countries where it has been legal. He looks pretty good for his age.

And something is keeping Keith Richards alive and he snorted his own Dad.

Real HGH treatments are expensive. And probably not covered by insurance unless you had degenerative disease.

I am, however, totally "shooting from the hip" on this one.

HGH is quickly becoming labeled a steroid. It is now illegal in most major sports for it's performance enhancing abilities, and players are facing major suspensions.

Anti-aging is the big selling point, but it's more than that. Fully grown people can start getting taller/bigger when using this. The best way I can describe it: This is the hormone your body produces to help you grow into an adult. Naturally it dwindles with time, hence you stop growing. HGH is it's synthetic equal.

I understand it was orignally only used with the elderly, or people with degenerative issues. It's not becoming popular for it's cosmetic allure. We live in the plastic surgery era, it's no wonder this is becoming more and more popular.

Jintropin from China is a lot cheaper than the Saizen from Switzerland and it's just as good. A 100-IU box of Jintropin goes for anywhere from $350 to $450. That's about $4.00 per IU, compared to the $10 per IU you'd pay for Serono's Saizen at http://www.somatropinonline.com/ . After being on it for a year at 1.6 IU/day, people have told me that i look 10 years younger.

Your best source of info on Jintropin sources and dosing information is the message board at http://lef.org .

So can the bones start growing again? Will there be room in the joints?

I can understand muscle growth but vertical growth would be extremely strange at my age?

Always fancied myself at basketball actually - just a couple of feet too small.

I really don't think you'd grow taller vertically once you reach an adult age (otherwise those Joe Weider Flex Magazine guys would be 8 feet tall) but i have heard of it's anti-aging properties and Yes it is considered in the steroid catagory as far as all pro sports are concerned. You will put on muscle mass without even trying too hard on this and lose fat also. Much would be dose dependant as well. You're not going to look like a freak unless you're doing all kinds of steroids and like 30 thousand dollars a year on the HGH (which many pro bodybuilders do.)

Insomniac

Link to some info:

http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/hypopit/gh.html

There are many things to be considered before taking HGH, one of them being the side effects. If it's so great, why isn't everyone jumping on the bandwagon?

From Mayo Clinic:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/growth-hormone/HA00030

Human growth hormone (HGH): Does it slow aging process?
If you're willing to pay thousands, some doctors promise to reverse the signs of aging with human growth hormone (HGH). Before you sign up, get the facts.
Your body naturally makes growth hormone to help fuel growth during your childhood and to help maintain your tissues and organs throughout your life. Beginning in your 40s, your pituitary gland — the pea-sized structure at the base of your brain where growth hormone is made — slowly reduces the amount of the hormone it produces.

Some people believe the dwindling level of growth hormone is responsible for the frailty that typically comes with getting older. And that's prompted some who are concerned about growing old and losing independence to turn to injections of synthetic human growth hormone (HGH) to stave off the realities of old age. But there's little evidence to suggest human growth hormone is the Fountain of Youth.

Who needs to take human growth hormone?
Synthetic human growth hormone is available only by prescription and is administered through an intramuscular injection. It's currently approved to treat adults with true growth hormone deficiency — not the expected decline in growth hormone due to aging. Growth hormone deficiency can be caused by pituitary tumors and radiation or surgery to the pituitary gland, among other causes.

Human growth hormone is also approved for:

Children with short stature
Children with kidney failure
Children with Prader-Willi syndrome
Children with Turner's syndrome
Muscle wasting associated with AIDS and HIV
Studies of adults with growth hormone deficiencies show that injections of human growth hormone can:

Increase bone density
Increase muscle mass
Decrease body fat
Bolster the heart's ability to contract
Improve mood and motivation
Increase exercise capacity
Because of those results, some people believe that synthetic human growth hormone can help healthy older adults who have naturally low levels of growth hormone regain some of their youth and vitality.

What can human growth hormone do for healthy older adults who don't need it?
Studies of healthy older adults taking human growth hormone are limited. Many involve a small number of people followed for a short period of time. The studies that have been conducted have found that human growth hormone injections can increase muscle mass and reduce the amount of body fat in healthy older adults.

That increase in muscle doesn't translate into increased strength. Though the study participants gained muscle, they weren't any stronger. One study compared older men who took human growth hormone with older men who went through strength training programs. The bottom line: Strength training can increase both your muscle mass and your strength, making it cheaper and more effective than taking human growth hormone.

It isn't clear whether human growth hormone can provide other benefits, such as increased bone density and improved mood, to healthy adults. Most of the research into human growth hormone has focused on people with true growth hormone deficiencies.

Are there any risks to taking human growth hormone if you don't need it?
Taking human growth hormone can cause a number of side effects, including:

Swelling in your arms and legs
Arthritis-like symptoms
Carpal tunnel symptoms
Headaches
Bloating
Muscle pain
Diabetes
Abnormal growth of bones and internal organs
Hardening of the arteries
High blood pressure
Some evidence shows that side effects of human growth hormone treatments may be more likely in older adults than in younger adults. Also, because the studies of healthy adults taking human growth hormone have been short term, it isn't clear whether these side effects could eventually dissipate or become worse. For instance, though human growth hormone produced arthritis-like symptoms, it isn't clear if this would progress into arthritis. More study is needed.

Does human growth hormone come in pill form?
Some Web sites claim to sell a pill form of human growth hormone that produces results similar to the injected form of the drug. Sometimes these are called human growth hormone releasers. There's no proof that these claims are true. In fact, if you were to swallow human growth hormone, it would likely be digested by your stomach acids and not absorbed into your body.

Web sites also sell homeopathic remedies claiming to contain human growth hormone. There's no proof that these work, either.

Talk it over with your doctor
Your doctor can explain more about how human growth hormone works in your body and whether it's something your body needs more of. If you have specific concerns about aging, such as gaining weight, your doctor can suggest ways to improve your health safely. Taking simple steps, such as eating a diet full of fruits and vegetables and exercising daily, can help keep your body in shape and help you feel better about yourself as you get older.

1 mg of HGH = 2.7 I.U. Athletes can take anywhere from 8 to 20 I.U per day. If they take the 191-chain HGH it's indistinguishable from natural human HGH, so it's really the only performamce-enhancing drug that is undetectable.

HGH is not cheap. If you scrimp and don't take enough, it won't have any noticeable effects and will be a waste of time and money.

At 1.6 I.U. (or 0.6 mg) per day, the only thing i noticed for the first three months was an improvement in my digestion.

There were some subtle improvements in skin and hair that began to be noticeable on close inspection of my face and head in the bathroom mirror after three months of daily use.

These changes in skin and hair became noticeable to others after approximately six months of daily use with no breaks. That consumed 180 I.U. or about 110 mg.

In order to see the full effects, plan on having twice that amount.

After about nine months i noticed that some fat had changed into muscle and i was getting more muscular without doing much exercise.

It also seemed to make me sleep better, but i don't think it had any benefit with my depression. The reason i started taking it was hope that it would help with my TRD. It seems to have no effect on my mood.

If you can afford a few thousand dollars for some subtle changes in your appearance and your body's function, go for it. But i don't think it's worth taking unless you can afford to buy at least three 100-I.U. boxes of Jintropin, which is about 1/3 the price of Saizen Somatropin.

See http://www.somatropin.net/hgh-brands.htm .

HGH is not an anabolic steroid, though some states mistakenly list it as such in order to make it a controlled substance. Since it does not meet any of the criteria for being a federal controlled substance, it would take an Act of Congress to schedule it, because any attempt by the DEA to schedule it as an anabolic steroid would exceed their legal authority and could be struck down by the courts. Congress, though, is free to do whatever stupid things they want to do when it comes to mandating a scheduling action.

http://www.jintropin-gh.com/Jintropin/Buy-Jintropin.asp

Here is a site where hgh is MUCH less expensive. You will, however have to buy your bacteriostatic dilutent elsewhere because once reconstituted it only lasts for 4 days. 10IU vials, 100IUs for about $5.00 an IU. I use a very low dose for anti-aging so I need it to last a while once it is reconstituted. This is only one source. There are many for Jintropin. 1IU is the max for me per day. I'm not a body builder, however I do lift weights and I'm 46 and don't want to suffer the "natural" aging process. I want to live hale and hearty for as long as possible.

Jane

Jane, I can't PM you. You have exceeded your quota, so perhaps do some emptying?

Oh, I didn't know. Sorry. I'll do it now.

Jane

Whew, that was tough!! I did it. You should be able to fit a PM in there now. Thanks Neph.

Jane

I been using saizen HGH for about 2-3 weeks @ .03cc - .04CC each night. The first thing I niticed was my dreams were so pleasant. My attitude and energy level has improved. They say i trials, it will take months to get full effect. I will continue use for now. Maybe it's my imagination but my face loks more alive in the mirror, a youthfull glow but same wrinkles but maybe skin tone is better. Aloha. let me know your experience please as I am new to this also. Regards; Mike

elheffe,
Wheres the cheapest blue tops?Do those come in the loaded pins or in amps.Thanks.

I don't want to be negative but I would expect that the feedback mechanisms in your body would lower (or even stop !) your natural HGH production till your genetically preset HGH levels are reestablished. I would suspect that that would only be a matter of time. And if you then stop taking the artificial stuff ... Probably not pleasant.

Of course, if your natural HGH production is low because your body (organ damage) has been damaged and because of that is unable to produce 'normal' levels of HGH it may be a different story. A decline in natural HGH production because of normal aging will probably not count as organ damage ...

You should not take hgh at night before bed because it is at night that normal spikes in hgh occur. First thing in the am is best.

After the age of 40 hgh production decreases rapidly and the onset of age related disease begins. Personally I consider aging and becoming frail with atherosclerosis, etc. to be a disease process. Because a treatment is available to offset such decline in health there is no reason not to take advantage of it. Youth is wasted on the young. Just look around at what our society has created of our progeny.

I want my bone density to remain intact, my heart muscle to fully function, my lean body mass to remain, my mind to stay clear, my attitude to be happy and full of wonder just like when I was a young person. HgH is no magic bullet but it's as close to one as we can get so far.I also use natural testosterone and USP progesterone and plan to add T to my anti-aging regimen. You should read up on it at LEF. You'd learn much and maybe become a convert!!

"I believe in growing old gracefully, aging surgically, and better life through chemistry!!" Live on!!

Jane

Weird: someone placed -somehow- a post here that I didn't place, or I something weird happened. I certainly don't remember placing it, and normally I would have posted something different ! Sorry for the confusion.

Of course,I agree. But I want to rise above my genes!! Why be subjected to genetic inheritance? Phewy on that I say. Fight, fight the fading of the light...................LOL

Jane

This is very interesting. I have been researcing this today and have a question I couldn't find the answer. Is this only injectable? Needles scare the [censored] out of me?

Thanks

Yes, it is only injectable. Sub-q. It doesn't hurt if you use BD mini syringes. If someone tells you that you can get the same results from orally used secretogoges (sp?,I don't feel like looking it up) than they are wrong. Yes, massive dose of Aminos, and I mean massive, will cause your pituitary to creatr more hgh but a simple injection from a legitimate laboratory and brand will work much better, faster, and easier.

JMHO,

Jane

Trampy,

Aren't you aware if Jintropin hgh. It is 191hgh. The real deal and can be had for around 2.00 per IU.

Just thought you should know. Saizen is way overpriced but still and excellent source. I just find that I cannot afford it.

Jane

What the heck is T? I use Saizen HGH cause I'm tryin it out, (1 month now, w. 1 month supply left.). I got some L-Deprenyl on the way and lookin for good testosteron proiante source. Here's my question Jane: Did you try Saizen? and if u did is the stuff from china, (that can't be bough w a credit card), as potent?
Thanks for any advice. 57 yr old man here. Aloha.

I feel horrible even saying this but I am a young male with a horrible back and this stuff is very tempting to me. It's about the only thing I haven't tried to help me aside from a few other things that I refuse to do.

Anyway, is there a safe place to buy? If anyone could PM me with any info they have with anything from personal experience to links with info. I am very curious. Most importantly, could this be a tool used to help muscle growth which will support my back better? PT therapist has always said that is important and would help but I'm always ending up in so much pain I can never get that far. I think this extra help could be exactly what I need.

Also, is his stuff even safe? I've read the side affects but wanted to hear real peoples stories of how they felt/reacted to this.

You're help/guidance would be greatly appreciated. THANKS!!!!

I have a bad back too. Does HGH help with misaligned vertebrae and the associated pain?

I found it w. google

I'm am older male w. bad back but from long year of hard labor. HGH is easing some pain. I have no bad discs or any of thaat. Never heard of it alligning vertabrae! I know it's good for muscle ans cartalige regroth and bone density increase via scientivic stdies. Maybe that's why my back seems a little better. BUT........ my torn sinues at the small of my back are probably attached to cartalige (I guessing). I don't want to get and live a slave to painkillers or a low level life experience. Aloha

I have degenerative disc disease, multiple herniated discs and sciatic problems. I was hoping that the HGH could help my discs in at least slowing down the degenerating process along with helping increase muscle mass for a more stable back. My discs being like they are, it's very easy and likely that I will herniate more as time goes on. I'm sick of pain, even with medication and being young, i know it's only going to get worse as I age.

If the problem is in the back muscles it should help because hgh will increase muscle to an extent.I been reading some new studies that have shown where hgh increases the strength of tendons and ligaments and there are several on going studies to see how the hormone might help in those with severe joint damage such as advanced arthritis.You guys pose a great question and i hope you get the answeres but if it were me and i could afford it i would try it.Maybe your doc could give you more info.He?she might ever rx it to ya.

My problem isn't necessarily muscles but I've been told the stronger my back muscles are, the more they will help "hold" my discs in place and will have less chance of herniating again. Having the bonus of slowing the degeneration process is my biggest reason though. That is basically arthritis in the discs which in my case was caused by severe trauma.

I would certainly try it if you have the dough to dish out.The arthritis was one of the biggest research topics hgh was being tested on.You dont have anything to lose other than a few hundred dollars.It might very well help out.Thats what i love about this board is all the interesting new ideas discussed.

Yeah I am going to take some time to do more research but I am very very intersted in trying it. At the moment, I am too ignorant on all the facts so it is too early to try anything. I would like to know where the best places to buy are, what type of interactions it has with medications (if any) and if so, what medications. How long does it take to start working? Should I work out more when taking it if I am physically able to? Right now I am not. How much should I take and what is too much or too little?

like I said, if anyone has any personal experience that will help out then please fill me in.

I am curious though as to why more people do not try or use this method? Is it really to good to be true? Seems like if it works as well as it sounds then I would think more people would be using it.

Things that make you go "hmmmmm" lol

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070521/ap_en_mo/people_stallone

This made me think twice about ordering anything^^
I was telling my wife about it though and she thought that it sounded like it was worth a try, as long as I couldn't get in trouble obviously..lol

CrookedBack,
are you in the us or au?that article was about him in au.theres several types of hgh in the usa and with it not being a controlled med i dont think customs will bother ir if they open your package.

US

Should have prices on Somatrope and the Chinese ginotrope which is the only kinds I would do ( like the 191 amino)

I'll post

Have you read some of the studies that are being conducted on hgh for back pain as well as muscle and joint pain?Type into google hgh treating back pain and take a look at some of the sites.the results are quite amazing on the test esp.with back,joint and muscle pain.They have studies going on with hgh and chronic fatigue syndrome....just amazing!

Has anyone really tried it and I would really appreciate a recommondation as to where to order from? Seriously, the thought of this makes me so intrigued. The possibility of getting myself into a position where I do not have to take pain medication to have a normal day is so...umm...incredible. If it worked..I would like I could fly..although I won't try to lol

Well, I did some research on some bodybuilding forums (not that I want to be an overgrown gorilla) but I figured that would be a good place to start.

Anyway, it appears that this could be one expensive form of treatment and no way can I afford to do it. I could buy some here and there but it sounds like you need to maintain it and that is something that would make my bank account very angry....not to mention my wife. lol

I dont think you would use anywhere near the amounts that bodybuilding requires.Also it wont make you grow into a giant.You are so funny...anyhow i will post a link here to a good place to order at least products i ordered from them were great and very fast shipping.

www.asiella.com
Good products and fast shipping.They are a iop.

anyone familiar with... Hygetropin? or this site ? http://www.hygetropin.net/HGH/Buy-Hygetropin.asp

this is theier add,

Hygetropin comes in 200iu boxes (25 vials of 8 IU each)
Buy 1 Hygetropin hGH 200iu kit at $ 440 per box ($2.2 per IU)

what do you think?

Really cant be until anyone tries the place.i went with a different place but will look at this one the next go.

has anone tryed that place for HGH? the cheap one You mentioned froggy? Im scared to western union anyplace. especially so expencive! if they not legit, no way t recoupt yor money. I'm using saisen by serano now but it's over $10 per IU. I heard of something called blue tops but no one will give me an exact source. Jane I think know but am slow to ask her as I'm scared she'll say she'll say no. I'm takin this for antiaging and strenghthening my lower back mucels. I found it's a great libido enhance if taken in very small dose. (.04 IU)

To all of you on this thread. I'm so sorry but I've been away from the board for a while. Try this site.

GavinKane.com

You will learn much about HG here. You have to sign up, register, and then start reading. I'm a member there and I have learned a great deal. I just PM'd SCP but hit a key and lost the whole darn thing. I hate when that happens!!!

Anyway, HG is a wonderful treatment. It can be had for less than you think. You must be careful of your sources though. PM me if any of you have questions.

Carollea aka Jane

There Steroid and HGH prices are insane! Like someone else aid it;s something you can;t scimp on and it works best when used over a longer peroid of time say 2iu;s for 6 months would be better than 4iu's over a shorter course of time

Research, Learn, Live Better... Being an amateur bodybuilder w/ plenty of cycles and GH use this is all i'm going to share for now, I'm also glad to see this topic thread here on this site it's about time...

Hi , could someone please point me to a site or PM me with some information regarding actually preparing and injecting HGH? Sorry if it should be obvious, but I have been doing some research on it , but no one seems to really discuss the actual process for usage/injection.


Thanks in advance!!!

A Basic Guide to HGH

The intention of this guide is to give you a good basic working knowledge of HGH and how to intelligently use it. While this is not intended to cover every conceivable nuance of HGH use, it should provide you with a solid enough background to create your cycle around. I am not writing this as a scientific exposition or as an overly technical overview. I am writing this from the standpoint of a seven-year veteran of HGH use, and an athlete (yes even paid at times) that has used this as one of the tools in my arsenal. I have injected tens of thousands of IU’s of HGH into myself, and carefully monitored, tested, and experimented on myself. So with that disclaimer being made up front, lets take a look at this hormone called HGH.

Few other hormones have generated more excitement and hype in recent years than HGH. From reports of incredible fat loss to tales of increases in lean muscle to levels that defy genetics, HGH has been touted as one of the panaceas to all bodybuilding woes. Depending on which statistics you trust, reports of as many as 80% of professional athletes have experimented with, have used, or are actively using HGH as a supplement to their training program.


WHAT EXACTLY IS HGH?
Human Growth Hormone (somatotropin - also referred to as rHGH, HGH, or GH) is created by the pituitary gland, the primary form consisting of a 191 amino acid chain. When we are young, HGH is in big part responsible for the proper growth of bones, muscle, and other tissues. Too little of this hormone and we remain dwarfs … too much and we become giants and/or suffer from abnormal growth deformities. As we become adults, HGH is responsible for keeping muscles from wasting away, supports healthy immune system response, regulates aspects of our metabolic function dealing with increased fat metabolism and healthy body composition in later life, and maintains and repairs our skin and other tissues.

Our levels of HGH peak while we are adolescents and then begin to drop off sharply beginning in our 30’s. By our 60’s, our daily HGH secretion can be as little as 10% of what it was during our youth. Many of the markers of aging are affected by this decrease in HGH. Some of the results of this are:

· Increase in fat.
· Decrease in muscle and lean body structures.
· Decreased skin texture resulting in a less youthful appearance.
· Decreased bone density, onset of osteoporosis.
· Decreased brain function, loss of intellect with aging.
· Decreased sex drive.
· Decrease in overall physical and mental well being.
· Increase in sleep disorders, lower quality of sleep.
· Depression and fatigue.

The addition of supplemental HGH beginning in the latter 30’s can reverse or improve these symptoms in the majority of people attempting therapy. This is why you will often hear references with respect to HGH as “the fountain of youth” and other similar terms. It can present a better quality of life for those aging.

HOW IS HGH RELEASED IN YOUR BODY?
HGH is secreted from the pituitary in a pulsatile fashion, generally following a circadian rhythm. A number of stimuli can initiate an HGH secretion, the most powerful being short duration, high intensity exercise and sleep. During the first few hours of sleep (deep sleep stages – about 2 hours after you fall asleep), Somatostatin is turned off and GHRH is turned on, resulting in HGH pulses.

Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) produced by the hypothalamus stimulates HGH secretion. HGH, and IGF-1 create a negative feedback loop, meaning when their levels are high; it blunts release of GHRH, which in turn blunts the release of more HGH.

Somatostatin (SS), secreted by the hypothalamus as well as other tissues inhibits the secretion of HGH Somatostatin in response to GHRH and to other stimulatory factors such as low blood glucose concentration. High levels of IGF-1 also stimulate Somatostatin secretion.

Ghrelin is a peptide hormone secreted from the stomach. Ghrelin binds to receptors on somatotrophs and potently stimulates secretion of growth hormone. Ghrelin, as the stimulator for the growth hormone secretagogue receptor, potently stimulates secretion of growth hormone. The ghrelin signal is integrated with that of growth hormone releasing hormone and somatostatin to control the timing and magnitude of growth hormone secretion.

Once HGH is released, it is very short lived. It is generally metabolized and gone within a half-hour. During this half-hour, it travels to the liver and other tissues and induces them to secrete a polypeptide hormone called Insulin-like Growth Factor One (IGF-1).

HOW DOES HGH DO ITS WORK?
As mentioned above, HGH is short lived, but during its short half-hour or so activity per burst from the pituitary, it exerts itself through direct and indirect effects.

Its direct effects are the result of the HGH binding its receptor on target cells. Fat cells (adipocytes) as well as myocytes (muscle cells) have HGH receptors. On fat cells, HGH stimulates them to break down triglyceride and suppresses the fat cells ability to uptake circulating lipids.

Its indirect effects are in the process we described in the section above. When HGH travels to the liver, one of the results of its pass through the liver is the livers secretion of IGF-1. When this IGF-1 is secreted, it stimulates proliferation of chondrocytes (cartilage cells), which result in bone growth. It also plays a part in stimulating both the proliferation and differentiation of myoblasts (the precursor to skeletal muscle fibers). IGF-1 also stimulates amino acid uptake and protein synthesis in muscle and other tissues. Other tissues (muscle, etc.) are acted on by the presence of HGH, also inducing their release of IGF-1.

HGH stimulates protein anabolism in many tissues. This reflects increased protein synthesis, decreased oxidation of proteins, and increased amino acid uptake. As mentioned above, HGH enhances fat utilization by stimulating triglyceride breakdown and oxidation in fat cells (adipocytes).

HGH can affect the function of other hormones. HGH can suppress the abilities of insulin to stimulate the uptake of glucose in tissues and enhance glucose synthesis in the liver, though administering HGH actually stimulates insulin secretion and can create a state of hyperinsulinemia. This combination can lead to decreased insulin sensitivity, which in turn can lead to hyperglycemia. HGH can in the right circumstances also have a slight inhibitory effect on the function of our thyroid hormones (and actually vice versa as well), though this varies greatly from individual to individual. The vast majority of users have no need to worry about this at all. Others wishing to increase their metabolism or enhance certain of HGH’s functions may wish to consider low dose thyroid to their HGH cycle. We’ll offer some strategies later in this guide.

So, we are looking at a hormone that can assist with maintenance and healing of most of the body’s systems, can create new cartilage, bone, and muscle cells, can assist with protein uptake, decrease the oxidation of proteins, and can accelerate the rate at which fat is utilized. This paints the picture of the excitement that follows HGH. How then do we utilize this to our advantage? Let’s take a look at some strategies.

HOW DO I INCREASE MY LEVELS OF HGH?
There are a few strategies for increasing your own endogenous production of HGH. For the most part these aren’t going to give us a significant enough increase that would be necessary to promote all of the benefits mentioned above in their full measure, but for some (those still young) they will prove to be sufficient.

By adding several grams of Arginine and Glutamine to our daily supplement program, we can increase our levels of HGH. If we are very young or we are only in need of a modest jump in production, this may well do the trick. Short duration, high-intensity exercise (think heavy leg day – puking and all), will trigger our bodies to secrete a significant amount of HGH

Another possibility is to inject various related hormones or peptides. There are many available, such as GHRH, GHRP (and all of its analogs), and the like. These peptides are available from research companies and when injected at doses of 100mcgs per day, sub-q it does seem to show promise in increasing levels of HGH. At this stage the game, there isn’t a significant cost advantage to this over rHGH, but if we are trying to promote some of the other forms of HGH in addition to the primary form, or have no hope of securing a prescription for HGH (or other means of access) there may be an advantage to this course of action. Aside from these strategies, what are we left with? To state it simply, we need to inject exogenous rHGH.

INJECTIBLE HGH AND ITS USE
True HGH only comes in the form of a lyophilized powder. Any other form that you see advertised or run across is NOT the real deal. The only way to administer true HGH is by sub-q or intramuscular injection. You will see studies that use IV as their method of administration, but that is certainly NOT recommended (in fact it is just outright crazy), nor necessary in any way for getting all of the benefits HGH has to offer.

HGH is somewhat fragile by nature, and it needs to be protected from light and heat. HGH should be stored between 36 and 46 degrees Fahrenheit at all times both before and after its reconstitution.

There are a couple of American brands of HGH that can survive in normal room temperature for a reasonable amount of time BEFORE reconstitution (Genotropin – 3 months, Saizen – until expiration), but for the most part it is better to err on the side of safe rather than sorry. All brands of HGH should be refrigerated after being reconstituted, and all brands should be protected from light at all times.

RECONSTITUTING AND MEASURING YOUR HGH
So you now have a vial HGH in the form of lyophilized powder. The amount of this powder should be indicated on the vial somewhere. It will either be stated in Units (IU's) or in Milligrams (mg). If it is stated in milligrams, the conversion is most commonly stated as 1mg = ~3IU's (its really more precisely 1mg=2.7IU). We will use this 1mg = 3IU's for our guide since this is the standard most commonly referenced by manufacturers.

What we need to do with this lyophilized powder is add some Bacteriostatic water (BW), Sterile Water, or even liquid vitamin B12 to reconstitute it and make it ready to inject.

What we choose to reconstitute it with should depend on how rapidly we use the GH. Bacteriostatic water is basically sterile water with 0.9% Benzyl Alcohol added, and this Alcohol keeps anything from growing in the water, thus making it safe for injection for the longest amount of time, up to three weeks. If the amount of GH in our vial is enough to last for a few weeks at our desired daily dosage, BW is the wisest choice. For the common use for bodybuilding (2-5 IU's a day) and the more commonly used vial size (10 IU's), it isn't really as critical which of the above listed dilutents are used … the vial will be used up long before bacteria or anything begins to grow in our reconstituted HGH. It is really personal preference outside of the considerations listed above.

RECONSTITUTING
1.) Take an alcohol swab and swab the stopper of both your HGH vial and the vial of the dilutent (BW, sterile water, B12).

2.) Take a 3cc syringe with a 23 or 25 gauge needle (1" or 1.5") and draw up and amount of your preferred dilutent. The amount isn't critical, other than making sure you know exactly how much you have used. The best rule of thumb is choose an amount that will make measuring the final product easy

example- 1ml(cc) per 10 IU vial of HGH would mean each 10 mark on a U100 slin syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH

2ml(cc) added to a 10 IU vial of HGH would mean that the 20 mark on a U100 syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH

3ml(cc) added to a 10 IU vial of HGH would mean that the 30 mark on a U100 syringe would equal 1 IU of HGH

3.) Take this syringe with the dilutent and push it into the vial of lyophilized powder, angling so that the needle touches the side of the vial, and avoiding shooting the dilutent directly on the lyophilized powder. Make it run slowly down the side of the vial (don't let it forcefully rush in).

4.) After all of the dilutent has been added to the HGH vial, gentling swirl (do NOT agitate or violently shake the vial) until the lyophilized powder has dissolved and you are left with a clear liquid. The HGH is now ready for use. Store your now reconstituted HGH in the refrigerator. If you used BW to reconstitute it will be good for three weeks. If you used sterile water, it will be good for about 5 days.

MEASURING
After you have successfully reconstituted your HGH, now you need to know how to measure the desired amount out for injection. You will want to use a U100 insulin syringe to draw out and inject your HGH.

Here is the way to figure out how much to draw out. Since you know the amount of IU's in your HGH vial, and you also know how much water you have diluted it with, we just divide this out as follows:

You will need to know the following to be successful -

1ml = 1cc = 100 IU's

So we take our number of IU's of HGH from the label of the dry lyophilized powder (most commonly 10 IU's for all of us Jintropin users), and we divide that into the amount of dilutent we used.

example- We used 1cc(ml) of water. We have a 10 IU vial of HGH.
From our formula above we know that 1cc = 100 IU's, so we have 100 IU's of water.
We now divide the 100 IU's (the amount of our water) by 10 IU's (the amount of our HGH)

100 IU / 10 IU = 10

This 10 will perfectly correspond with the markings on a U100 insulin syringe. In our example every 10 mark on our syringe will equal 1 IU of HGH. Want to draw out 2 IU's of GH? ....draw out to the 20 mark on the syringe.

This is about all there is to it. So to recap, just keep straight:

1.) How much actual HGH you are dealing with (read from the vial)
2.) How much water (dilutent) you are using to add to the actual HGH.
3.) Divide the amount of water in units by the amount of GH in units.
4.) This result will equal the measurement on your U100 Insulin syringe per unit of GH.
5.) multiply the number you get it step 4 by how many units you want to inject. This is the number to draw to on your syringe.

Now that we have a basic understanding of what HGH is, how it does its work, and how to reconstitute and measure it, lets look at some strategies for using this hormone to our best advantage.

STRATEGIES FOR USING HGH
There are many different approaches to taking HGH. The right approach for your particular situation will depend on your goals. For many, HGH is a general supplement to help maintain low bodyfat percentages and reasonable levels of lean body mass. For others who have reached their genetic potential for growth, HGH is a supplement that can assist in continued growth beyond what your parents gave you to work with. For yet others, it is a supplement that is used for general health and healing of injuries. Let’s look at each of these uses with respect to a reasonable HGH program.

For bodybuilders, HGH (and the IGF-1 that is a result of its use) is the only substance that can actually initiate hyperplasia, which in the interest of our use in bodybuilding equates to new muscle cells. While use of anabolic steroids can cause hypertrophy (the enlargement of existing muscle cells), steroids do not offer the ability to recruit and mature more muscle cells. HGH can. HGH also increases protein synthesis, which can be responsible for hypertrophy. HGH also strengthens and heals connective tissues, cartilage, and tendons. These uses are what make it so attractive to athletes in all sports, and in bodybuilding in particular.


To begin with, it should be stated that for the vast majority of HGH users, results are not rapid and earthshaking in nature. If your idea of using HGH is to get ripped in a few weeks, gaining 20 pounds of muscle in a matter of a month or two, or being miraculously healed in a matter of a few injections … you are likely in for a BIG disappointment. HGH does some pretty incredible things, but it HAS to be viewed as a long-term endeavor. A reasonable length HGH cycle would be 20-30 weeks in length. While you will always be able to find the one or two individuals who will make great strides in a short amount of time, the majority of us need to be dedicated to its use for the long haul for it to be a worthy venture.

As mentioned in our introduction to HGH, one of the major roles it plays in growth is by its acting on the liver, muscle cells, and other tissues, which in turn secretes IGF-1. This process is cumulative in nature, and it will take some time for your exogenous HGH use to bring your IGF-1 levels to create an environment conducive to optimal growth. While it is true that HGH begins shuttling nutrients to your muscles, and begins mobilizing fat from the first injection, these behind the scenes benefits will only be VISIBLE several weeks (up to 12) down the road.

DOSING

For anti-aging, general health & healing, fat mobilization
And other purposes such as these –
A dose of 2-3 IU’s per day (~10 – 15 IU’s per week) will be sufficient. A dose of 1.5 - 2.0 IU’s is considered to be a full replacement dose for those in their middle age. Given we will get somewhere in the neighborhood of 70-80% absorption and utilization from our subQ injections, our 2-3 IU’s will for all intents and purposes equate to a full replacement measure of HGH.

For gaining lean muscle and substantially improving body composition –
For this purpose a dose of 5-10 IU’s per day (~25-50 IU’s per week) will be necessary. Most people that still have an alive and kicking pituitary will respond very well at a dose of 5 IU's per day, though advanced bodybuilders and other large strength athletes will find that dose approaching 10 IU’s per day will be in order.
For maximum benefit in this regard, the addition of Testosterone and/or other anabolic should strongly be considered. For advanced use, other supplements like Insulin, and low-dose T3 or T4 would also be considerations.

Regardless of your goal, as a general rule the best way to begin your HGH program is to start with a low dose and ease your body into the higher doses. This will allow you to avoid (or at least minimize) many of the more common (and unpleasant) sides of HGH such as bloating and joint pain & swelling. Most people can tolerate up to approximately 2 IU’s per day with few sides, so that would be a good place to start.

For many using this as a general health supplement, that is as high as you will need to go. For others this will be only the start. Above 2.5 – 3 IU’s, I would definitely suggest that your split your injections into two per day instead of one unless it is just not feasible to do so. In my experiences, I have ran doses as high as 10 IU’s per injection, but at those doses I have suffered greatly with joint pain and bloating to the point of feeling like a Goodyear blimp. Also in my experimentation it seems that at least for me, keeping my individual doses down to 3-3.5 IU’s a piece, I more effectively elevate my IGF-1 levels while minimizing the need for mega-doses of HGH.

Here is what a good ramp up strategy would look like:
Weeks 1-4 = HGH 2 IU’s one injection
Week 5 = HGH 2.5 IU’s one injection
Week 6 = HGH 3.0 IU’s split into two injections of 1.5 IU’s each
Week 7 = HGH 3.5 IU’s split into two injections of 1.75 IU’s each
And so forth until you reach your desired dose.

If at any point in this progression you begin to have unbearable bloating or joint pain, drop the dose by 25% and hold it at this lower dosage for a couple of weeks. If the sides subside, begin your progression back up toward your desired level. If the sides remain, lower your dose again and hold it at the lower level for two weeks before beginning the upward progression. This method will keep your HGH experience a good one and side free for the most part.

For a normal cycle of 5-8 months in length, injecting once or twice a day, 7 days a week should be fine. While there are studies that suggest that the suppression and negative feedback from exogenous HGH is short lived (about 4 hours from time of injection), there are no large-scale studies to indicate safety of everyday injections in long-term use. There are studies by anti-aging groups demonstrating that a day or two off per week is adequate to protect the pituitary and its triggers over long cycles. If your use of HGH becomes more a lifestyle than a single cycle, I would consider running it 5 on/2 off, or 6 on/ 1 off until such time as we have reliable data demonstrating long-term safety sans any degradation of your own output or the triggers initiating that output. I have personally experimented with just about every conceivable injection strategy I could devise. What I can say about the anti-aging doctor’s supposition is that it panned out for me. I have recently come off of a 7-year run of HGH. I personally pull my own blood panels every six weeks routinely. After many months of being off of HGH, I now have the same profile I had before I began its use many years ago … high normal for my age. All levels and markers are perfectly normal.

Another option would be to run your HGH cycle everyday for the first two months to get your IGF-1 levels elevated quickly and to a level to assist you in an anabolic way, then drop back to 5 days a week. If you can tolerate the sides of higher doses, running the same weekly dose divided every other day is fine as well. The list goes on and frankly is an individual proposition. What seems to be of greatest import is that your weekly supplement of HGH is respectable enough to provide the desired benefit.

TIMING
As described above, the body produces HGH is a pulsatile fashion throughout the day with the heaviest pulses occurring approximately 2 hours or so after going to bed and as you fall into a deep sleep. Injectible HGH is completely absorbed and put to use within approximately 3 hours. The strategy with respect to timing depends somewhat on our age and the other elements of our cycle. As you will see below, there is no single best strategy … it depends a lot on your individual situation.

For those that are between their late 20’s and early 50’s, there is still a reasonable chance that your own endogenous production of HGH is at a reasonable level. The best time to take and injection, this being the case, would be early morning …. After your body’s own release of HGH in the night. If you get up to go to the bathroom in the early morning (3 -5am), this is probably the perfect time to take a couple of units of HGH. This will be the least disruptive time to take an injection of HGH. The second best time would be first thing in the morning when you wake up.

If you are splitting your doses, the two times of the day when your cortisol levels are at peak are when you wake up and in the early afternoon. This being the case, another good strategy is to take your HGH injections at these times. Cortisol is very catabolic by nature and a well -timed HGH injection can go a long way toward blunting this effect.

If you are in your late 50’s or beyond, or if for some reason you have a condition that has rendered your pituitary incapable of a normal release of HGH, a great time to take HGH is right before bed. This allows you to closely mimic the natural pattern that would occur if your pituitary were functioning properly. For the rest of us, taking your HGH right before bed is going to end up creating a negative feedback loop, robbing you of your body’s own nightly pulse of HGH. While the jury is still out (conflicting studies) as to the absolute nature of the negative feedback time, it is clear that the closer we push our injection to the time our body is ready to give us its biggest pulses of HGH, we are going to end up derailing our own triggers and secretion.

Yet another strategy should be considered if you are using insulin with your HGH. Insulin should be used immediately post workout. HGH and insulin do some great things together – they shuttle nutrients in a very complimentary way with each other, and the combination of HGH and Insulin create the best environment for IGF-1 production from the liver. If you are using insulin immediately post workout, taking a few IU’s of HGH pre-workout will allow HGH to offer all of its fat mobilizing effects while getting your HGH and Insulin to the liver at about the right time for huge IGF-1 releases.

SIDE EFFECTS – HOW TO MANAGE THEM
While HGH for the most part is well tolerated, there are some minor, mostly nuisance side effects that can occur. The biggest and most common side effect is bloating and joint pain. The chances of getting these can be minimized or even eliminated by utilizing the ramp up method discussed above in this guide.

If you are younger than your late 20’s, it would be very wise to enter an HGH cycle under the guidance of an MD, who can monitor and confirm whether your growth plates have fused. While abnormal bone growth with HGH use is not common, if used at the wrong point in your body’s development, it could cause disproportionate growth.

If you have a history of cancer or other tumors (at any age), it would be wise to get a complete checkup and be monitored by an MD to make sure that there are no active tumors before your HGH cycle. While HGH (and IGF-1) won’t cause cancer or tumors, they can create an environment that can allow already existing, active tumors to grow at an accelerated rate. We intentionally keep growth factor levels to a minimum in cancer patients. While tumors can create their own growth factors, we really don’t want to throw gas on the fire and allow them to grow any faster than they otherwise could.

Beyond these considerations, there really isn't anything specific that you would HAVE to take with HGH. There are supplements that you could take for specific conditions that are possible with HGH use. The way people react to HGH is a pretty individual thing. Some people get very little suppression of any kind; others don't see any gains from adding HGH because of significant enough suppression of one kind or another. Here's a general rundown of a few of the bigger ones.

For the slight thyroid support that may be desired:
conservative - take nothing
moderate - t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin, selenium, zinc, chromium, copper
aggressive - T3 at a dose of 12.5 - 25 mcgs or T4 at 100mcgs per day.

For the insulin resistance that is possible:
conservative - 300mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid and 200 - 300mcgs of Chromium Piccinolate
moderate - 15mg of Actos - a prescription med to increase insulin sensitivity, Glucophage (Metformin) to dispose of excess glucose and increase uptake in muscles.
aggressive - add a few IU's of insulin to your HGH cycle

For healthy test levels to best utilize HGH:
conservative - do nothing
moderate - use Tongkat or Tribulus
aggressive - add 200-300 milligrams (or more) of testosterone weekly to your HGH cycle

For protection against prostate growth:
conservative - do nothing
moderate - use Saw Palmetto (approx 2000mg)
aggressive - use Proscar or equivalent

For those that have a problem with breast tissue growth while on HGH:
For those that suffer from this, there is a difference of opinion as to the cause. In the presence of adequate estrogen, HGH can prompt growth of breast tissue. Also of consideration is that growth hormone, prolactin, and placental lactogen are a subfamily of a large 2-class cytokine superfamily of proteins. The amino acid sequences of hGH and hPL are similar (85% homology). In humans, each of these three proteins can bind hPRL receptors and promote a variety of physiological actions, including breast growth, lactation, and the like.
The current consensus seems to be that the best approach for those with this problem is twofold - Take 200mg of B6 (or Bromo if B6 is not sufficient) and also use 20-40mg of Tamoxifen (Nolva) to control this. If all else fails, a couple of months of Letro and Bromo will most certainly (and aggressively) deal with the problem. This is a pretty rare condition, but I have talked with more than a few bros that have reported this sort of problem.

Once again, I wouldn't say that all (or any) of these are necessary for everyone. I would use these supplements as necessary to correct whatever conditions arise with your own HGH use. As stated above, reaction to HGH (and just about anything else we use) is very individual.

Hopefully this guide has given you a better understanding of HGH and what it can do for you. HGH, especially when used in conjunction with an AAS cycle, will produce some high-quality, lean mass gains. It can also be used in conjunction with IGF-1 and insulin, which will be the topic of a comparative guide, that I will finish writing and get posted one of these days.

Happy growing!

TTT

WOW! lOVE ETHAT ARTICLE! iT SUMMED UP MOST OF WHAT i'VE FOND SO FAR AND VERY CONSISE. I hope I'm not underusing @ 1.2IU Nightly for antaging. My earlir researh show .8 IU daily would relpace me to 26 yr old average level (for 185# male, now 58 yrs old). Anyone else think I need to step it up to at least 2IU a day? this stufffs expensive but I don't wanna waste my money by under dosing. Though I was dosing a little extrs till I read this one.
Thanx

If you PM me I can tell you how to inject i have used it for 2 years and have extensive experience with it.

sorry not so experianced. my back is suffering from arthritis and short of pills and shots i am told not much docs can do. i have a son who is graduating college this year and he has some HGH experiance. i have ordered some from Russia but it is hokey pokey put cash in magazine etc. as i have not posted enough to PM if someone out there could help me with a reasonable reliable lead to procure this i would be greatful

thanks
mike

Old post I know -- but still.

Yes, everything grows. HGH is the stimulatory chemical for 'general' growth across the entire body. It operates in a similar way (in some respects) as cancer. Though it isn't unstoppable cell division.

What it will do:

Make you feel stronger, and be stronger.
Reduce wrinkles to some degree by increasing our skins essential chemicals..
Possibly add a half-inch to an inch to your overall height.
Give you ENERGY.
Relieve depression, anxiety and other mental problems.
Motivate you.
All this leads you to feel younger.. which results in:

One acting younger, in which they are MORE active and their body responds to the activity -- The older wiser of us will eat better, and so forth. It is all synergistic in battling age.

But I like to think of it more of a product to help you FEEL better, and indirectly look better. It can do so much for people with mental health issues, or general health issues (poor immune systems) and so forth.

What it won't do:

Turn a 5'7 man (or woman) into a 6'5 basketball acceptable height. This is going to give you less than an inch of height at best.. rare occasions and (too much use) could give more.

Cure incurable disease.

Make a 60yr old woman look 30 overnight (or ever).

and so on.

It isn't the fountain of youth,.. but it is a very, VERY good product. It must be treated with respect. If used in measured/monitored and sterile manners it can be very beneficial. Even to men and women who are not 'old' -- aka: not over 40yrs old. It can be of use to men and women who are over the age of 23 or so. Sometimes younger depending on condition and levels.

When our HGH levels are considered 'normal' it doesn't mean we can't benefit from MORE of it.

To be honest, in all of my study I earnestly believe we do not know what the 'proper' amount of this mystery hormone is. We know about what levels are reached in growth spurts and throughout life as a curve. Though we haven't experimented and studied enough the positive and (negative) effects to make proper use of it to general public health.

It is NOT a steroid. Body builders use it, yes. Why? Because anything that promotes muscle regeneration and hypertrophy (basically a more efficient body) is what body builders are after. HGH does this.

Body builders tend to use excessive doses of HGH, to get dramatic results in muscle mass. The draw back here is this causes organs to enlarge as well. The body thinks it is in puberty again, and the heart can and does enlarge, the intestines,.. kidneys/liver etc. This is permanent. The skull itself can and will enlarge. Yes, your head can get bigger -- But again, on low, therapeutic doses this will not occur.

Case in example: Barry bonds at age 30. Barry Bonds at age 40something. Look at pictures..

Steroids used in moderation can be beneficial to us as well, but that is another subject matter. It is the MISUSE of these chemicals that has given them the 'illegal' or bad status they have.

Sort of like misuse of any beneficial substance.. Opiates, alcohol, sedatives, and on and on.

So do you recommend it? And could the half inch or so in overall height cause joint problems?

there are 100 different types of dwarfism and most would die if they took it. it not only grows stature in some -- it grows your organs. if you have a crooked back (as my son does) and he took it he would die because it would make his vertabrae even more twisted and his organs would fail.

this is the most disturbing thing i have ever read on this board and you are playing with fire. and you have no clue so inject it to your hearts content orrrrrrrrrrr til it bursts.

UGH UGH UGH!

and nephro, please don't listen to anyone who recommends it as most of this stuff isn't the real deal.

and you do not want the real deal as this is one thing i wish i didn't know about!

I am in shock reading this. I can understand a person needing some pain medication or something for stress but to inject something like this and to do it without a Dr involved is insane.

You only have one body. As a mother reading this well it scares me beyond belief.
I hope there are not any impressional young adults reading this.

i am wondering where on earth you found this information -- as you are usually so informed.

i just want to add that it will grow any deformity one has into a bigger deformity and nephro would probably need his foot amputated after these injections.

i am not looking for an argument at all -- i am just trying to stop anyone from doing this unless an endocrinologist and orthopedist and geneticist all agree that one is a candidate for injections.

all hgh pills are totally bogus and it is your mind that is making you feel better. one has to consider long term consequences not short term growth -- and yes you have to not have reached your ultimate height. that is why it is given in puberty.

Thank you, girls. I'm glad you saw this before I did. It's one thing to discuss prescription drugs, etc., but when it comes to thinly disguising the use of steroids w/o being under the supervision of a doctor, I draw the line.

Why aren't the side effects of steroids discussed? They are horrible!!! If you want to totally screw up your body, your immune system, your blood sugar--take steroids, anabolic or corticosteroids. Nephro, I don't think that you know what you are talking about. You may get lots of information off of the Internet or medical books and cut and paste, but you have no business telling people what you recommend as far as drugs go.

A REAL doctor would assess the WHOLE person before giving them a drug(s). How old are they, height, weight, married, divorced, children, living situation, employment, state of mind, BP, temp, history of prior diseases in self and family. I have NEVER seen you ask anyone any of these things and you should NOT, either on the board or by PM. You are not a doctor and pretending to be one doesn't make it so.

It frightens me to think that there are some very naive and trusting (and young) posters who think you are 'wise' and read your words like the Bible. If you were really wise, you'd cut and paste the chemical makeup of a med and refer the poster to either his own doctor (if he has one) or if w/o insurance, connect them with a link like the one below (it's free):

http://www.askadoctornow.com/?gclid=CM_H4eqNoZMCFSQTIgod02Thqw

As for checking for drug interactions, here is a link that ANYONE can and should use:

http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/Interaction/ChooseDrugs/1,4109,,00.html

I would suggest that in this age of information, anyone that does not take the time and effort to look up their own information, either at a library or on the Internet is a fool. Taking someone else's word for something, particularly a someone who is not a professional, regarding chemical substance is dangerous--very, very dangerous.

My sons (as young boys) used to get upset with me when I would tell them to look something up for themselves. As successful young men of 28 and 30, they now thank me and give me credit for making them do their own work, physically and intellectually. It made them leaders and dammed good ones.

Some posters on this board will always be lazy and want a quick answer. But I believe most posters want a good, informative answer. That includes doing ones own research.

What are you talking about?

When have I recommended HGH? N E V E R. It was not me. I never have, and I never would. I simply ASKED Neofate if he would recommend it, wanting to know why. All I can see are problems with the drug, hence my QUESTION.

If I state fact, I quote a source. If it's an opinion, I clearly say so. If I don't know something, I also say so.
Grown adults can tell the difference.

Don't worry, I wasn't. I was asking questions in order to promote further discussion. I was hoping Neofate would say that he wouldn't recommend it, due at least to joint problems. Thanks for reading what I actually said.

the next thing Neofate will promote for gaining height is limb lengthening. that can give you almost a foot of height. of course you'll be in so much pain for so many years while they lengthen your limbs that by the time you can enjoy being tall -- you might be in a wheelchair as there are no long term studies. of course it is only used by very experienced specialists and only for dwarfism candidates as there are criteria even for them.

in certain cases of course it is used to even limbs if one is shorter than the other as that presses the spine. that is just one surgery that i personally had to go through with my kid and because he was older it was harder for him to endure. older meaning 15. took him over a year to recover -- and had to wear THE MOST HORRIBLE GIGANTIC APPARATIS, huge round metal disk with spokes digging into his flesh attached to huge steel brace that had to be cleaned daily.

he recovered much quicker than i did.

I really hope your sons appreciate what an intellegent,strong and spiritually aware person you are kserah.I for one really enjoy your input on the board,as I'm sure others do too.
I think HGH technically falls into a different catagory than steroids,but I agree it requires alot of research,or proper guidance to use safely.

I can't speak for HGH but there are other natural techniques that will create new bone growth and even vertical height increase,at any age.The biggest issue is it takes ALOT of dedication,discipline and above all changing of consciousness.
Its something that needs to be explained in person.It would be near impossible to explain the technique on an internet forum.There are 1000's maybe even 10's of thousands that have achieved these results.It is even possible(although very difficult) to learn to grow new teeth,at any age.


This seems unsual for you Nephro.I think it may be a little bit harsh.Whether kserah was wrong or right,maybe a more compassionate approach is better for all concerned.
I know I'm still new to the board,and I respect most of your views,but I think you may wish you were a little more diplomatic in a day or two.

ditto regarding kserah. i too find her input invaluable.

and if you read this k, HGH really is not a steroid, it sometimes gets mistaken because of sports medicine. the recent hoopla regarding andy pettit (yankee pitcher) did not help the actual facts concerning human growth hormone.

i do know of a teenager was born with dwarfism and he was a candidate for hgh and he did receive the injections and he did gain in height. however, what also grew on his body was tons of dark hair to the point where he felt he traded one bad thing for another. so, when it comes to this stuff -- everything has some price. when i say he grew hair -- i ain't kiddin'!

That is a low blow saying such awful things about Kserah just because she is trying to protect others. I don't know anyone that dislikes her and she has always posted responsibly and is very helpful.

I hope this discussion ends soon before anyone gets the idea to start on this dangerous regimen.

You're right; it is unusual for me. But this isn't the first time kserah has attacked me for no reason, and anyone who tells me I don't know what I'm talking about will get the same back. The last time she tried it was here:

http://www.epharmacywatch.com/freeboard/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/637989/#Post637989

and she looked a fool then as well.

Joker, you freely give advice about various nutritional supplements, including drugs such as L-tryptophan, without obtaining the patient's clinical particulars. I think you're doing a great job and should continue, but if kserah were to be consistent in her slating of people, she should give you the same abuse she gives me.

Why should I have any compassion for someone who publicly abuses me, and nobody else, repeatedly?

Why should she abuse me in this thread when I did absolutely nothing wrong?

If people want me to stop sharing my medical knowledge then I'll leave this board, no problem. But it has to be a majority decision, not just based on the views of one person.

Again, what did I do wrong to get the original abuse from her?

If she wanted to protect people, why not just say "Don't take HGH etc etc", instead of dragging me into it, when I had nothing do with it?

What about the awful things she said about me? Was that not a 'low blow'?

kidding right?

totally confused by all this info. i take liquid hgh. advised by a specialist to help w/irritability, focus & memory in menopause symptoms. hollistic ent; Recombinant (3-4 drops 3 x daily under tongue)also with progesterone cream and flax, thus replacing scripted Provera & Estradiol. Hmmm

I think what we're saying is that under the advice of a specialist is one thing, but going into this stuff blindly, thinking it's a fountain of youth, is not recommended, even though they are NOT anabolic steroids.

no comment. i stand by everything i have said.

agreed. never heard of injecting.

Wow this thread has gotten a little out of hand. HGH (not talking about steroids) is used to help people live better lives.

With all therapy and medication one should always talk to a reputable doctor. We give advice here and that is it. Gather the advice and use it
to your advantage as an educational lesson. That is all it should be used for. No one should take what is said on this forum as 100% truth and then use it in place of a doctor visit.

Reading this thread I think this is a very valid question and one I'm interested in as well. It appears nephro (irrespective of the other attacks lobbied at him after his post) is asking a sincere question. Later in the thread it's clear he is not suggesting that anyone take HGH, but rather was asking for clarification from another poster.

Not being entirely familiar with personalities on this forum, it still seems clear to me that much of what followed this quote comprised of discussions of things that were not on topic and in many cases were essentially personal attacks based on previous personality differences. If you have a problem with a person over all, it seems much more reasonable to PM that member directly.

Instead what we have here seems to be a mudslinging contest that has little if anything to do with HGH. Maybe a few folks can rethink their attack attitudes and bring us back to the actual topic at hand. Right now all that's being done is to drive it off track due to personal differences between posters that have little or nothing to do with the discussion.

Grow up?

sleeper

Thanks Sleepertime. I have received a few PMs, which all asked me to continue as I have been posting for the last couple of years, so that's what I intend to do. Many thanks to those members.

Anyone can PM me any time, and I will always listen and respond, again as I have always done.

I saved someone's life once by pointing out a grave mistake a patient's doctor had made. It does happen, sadly, and always will.

I have also never attacked anyone on here and never will. But I won't just sit back and let people attack me for no reason. Politeness costs nothing and earns a great deal.

I have a friend who took HGH because he was really really short (everyone made fun of him) and his dad did not want him to go through what he went through during his life. So the family went to a doctor and made the educated decision to use the therapy. The family was given these pen like devices that the kid (13 years old) would press up to his skin and punch the button. It worked really well for him. Two - three years later he grew 3-4 inches (on top of his estimated normal puberty growth) or more and was very happy with the results. He was no giant, but he was not made fun of anymore at school. So for some this stuff (HGH) is a great way to help with issues.


I also know a girl who tried HGH and the outcome was totally different. She found it (HGH) to have too many side effects and not worth the trouble so she stopped it. I also think that height (being short) is not such a big deal for women. That may be why she decided to stop the therapy.

Nepho you do your thing and do not let others who are having a $hitty day bring you down. You are one of the top resources on this forum and losing you would make me and others very sad.

i am realizing it does not seem to matter what one tries to point out on this subject -- no matter how much knowledge one has.

nephro had a question and i tried to answer it and also impart the dangers of HGH. i disagree strongly with others and have different informed opinions so i thought i should be allowed to post without being accused.

that seems not to be the case -- but, i am not taken seriously as like neofate or nephro with my knowledge -- which is really a shame.

i thought this board was to impart information about medication. it is if you are one of the few 'Stars" here. and that is not saying anything negative regarding any who are looked up to for their wisdom -- but sometimes it is just not correct. hey, i'm not correct more times thannot.

i feel strongly about this med and happen to know more than most about it -- so i posted. i did not attack -- just disagreed vehemntly as imo and the opinions of the ama and the jama and the asssociation for people with short stature they are mistaken. lastly, real HGH should only injected to add growth and the price $20,000 a pop. but, hey -- i am no "star" but i am an expert on dwarfism.

the end.

You weren't being accused Recruiterlo; it was me!

I value your input very much and take what you say very seriously, not to mention agreeing with it.

I take you seriously recruiter. I also think your purdy too. I like it when you get angry it makes me get all excited. LOL


So it makes one hairy huh. I look like an 11-year-old boy. Maybe I should take some HGH to finally grow a big boy beard.

Go easy sweets

Hello recruiterlo,

Rest assured that my post was not directed towards you at all. Instead it was directed at a number of posts not made by you that I felt were derailing the discussion from HGH and turning discussion to one of personalities. I don't think that any of the well spoken posters here are against people speaking their minds about the dangers of drugs or substances being discussed - in fact I think that is an exceptionally valuable contribution that I think most of us completely welcome.

Sorry to give you the wrong impression, but my post was in no way directed at you what so ever. I do hope you continue to contribute as you have been.

All my best,

sleeper

You're kidding right? Just ask your friends Nico, FS, Caroline, etc. There are TONS of people on this website that dislike this woman. She's always looking for someone to attack, belittle, and call a "drug-seeker". Most people are too afraid to disagree with her, and don't want to be on the receiving end of her wrath.
If you look back at Nephro's post, HE DOES NOT reccommend in any way, shape,form, HGH. He's questioning Neonate about it. So not only does Kerwitch attack someone personally, she attacks the wrong poster. Nothing new here. She is somehow "threatened" by other educated, knowledgable posters. She can look it up in one of her "medical books". Something like overcompensating for an extremely low esteem.
Nephro is an asset to this board, and although I believe he can speak for himself, I for one, would like to ask that he not let himself be chased off by this bitter, miserable woman, and want him to know that he has my support.

PS Kserah. HGH IS NOT A STEROID...

I also respect nephro and recruits opinions very much! Also wonder how the first poster is doing now and would like to hear the answer to nephros original question.

Find me one post where I call anyone a drug seeker. As a matter of fact, I have been the first person to say that emotional or mental pain is no different than physical.

I'm not threatened by truly educated people. I enjoy learning from them. And, I have been through nursing school and actually worked on patients, so while that does not make me by any means a highly educated medical professional, I know enough to see very naive people accept Nephro's diagnosis of what they should take and that is scary. Had Mr. Nephro replied to my PM, I would not have taken to the board. At least I have the guts to say it to someone's face and not behind their back or under another username.

No, HGH is not a steroid, but hormones are all involved in the pituitary loop effect. Had I not just gone through the last 9 months on Prednisone and personally experienced what steroids and hormones DO to the body instead of just reading about it, I wouldn't have said anything. HGH does increase the risk of diabetes, and may produce more muscle, but it doesn't last. As soon as someone stops taking it, the body returns to its natural state.

Many of these drugs should only be used under the direction of a physician, hence the link to the free teledoc. As for the TONS of people that dislike me, oh well. I wasn't running for Prom Queen this year, anyway. I have yet to find any poster that did not speak up for themselves if they didn't like what I said. At least on this board.

Have you found those posts about me calling anyone a drug seeker yet? I don't give a rat's behind what anyone takes, but I don't want to see someone get really screwed up b/c they trusted an Internet poster that recites out of medical dictionaries. I think you will see that I often recommend seeking professional help, if at all possible. I found this board b/c I didn't have insurance. There are many in the same boat. If not wanting to see people get hurt b/c of misinformation, then yes, I am just full of wrath. Don't vote for me.

Well, neph, you never responded to my PM when I asked you "why" and I was very nice. But you never PM'd me back. I was rather hurt, as I fully remember posting last year that you were as resourceful as my school books--and I wasn't putting you down. I imagine that pent up hurt burst out on you today, albeit in the wrong way. Had you responded to my PM, we could have resolved the issue and let it go.

And, in all fairness, you attack in a different way--you must always correct what YOU presume is right and MUSY get the last word in, regardless of whether you are or not. That's why I rarely post in any of the same threads you do.

You do have a vast amount of knowledge, nephro. It would be really nice to take the subjects that you DO know the most about (particularly the conditions that affect you) and produce research with sources. I KNOW that I don't know everything--FAR from it. But I have yet to see you say there is anything you don't know, and I find that scary.