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#452914 - 02/14/07 01:59 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Board Addict
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 284
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Quote:
The DEA will have a nightmare on their hands if ROPs go away completely after so many years of relative "tolerance".
The generation aging now has gotten very used to "better living through chemistry" throughout their lives. Knowing they don't have to live with chronic pain is not something that will be easily surrendered. We'd all soon learn how a truly "rogue" pharmacy operates.
You raise a very interesting point, I have also mentioned it, calling it a "nice window of relief" that CP patients enjoyed the last few years. The DEA and the amount of time it took to respond and start setting legal precedents was a bad thing because it allowed alot of people, legitimate and illegitimate, to get used to a lifestyle that isnt going to last.
I mean its not their "fault" per se. The US govt has so much red tape it takes alot of time to catch up to new crimes and criminals. Thats all ROP's or any OP's are to the DEA: cyber drug dealers. We can blame technology and the vague laws about the internet partially for how long its taking to finally take a stand one way or the other on this issue. But again, the DEA, through policy statements, has made its stance clear for quite some time. Just red tape and new technology have slowed the progress. If it was a brick and mortar "ROP" that connected people to a pharmacy in florida, but patients physically had to go to it, you can bet it would have been closed a looooooooong time ago. But it takes alot of time to track business and crime going down in all 50 states from computers. Not your typical investigation involving forensics and DNA, haahaha
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#452917 - 02/15/07 03:03 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/16/06
Posts: 1794
Loc: The Sunshine State
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Quote:
I could not agree with Phil more. There is just too much money to be made for them to just close up. Somehow it will all work out. And yes, it may be a different name, whatever, but the people that are making all the money probobly are not thinking "OK, I've made enough, lets close 'er up" Nope. Not gonna happen. There may be some changes made, but I don't think it will disapear.
Well, this is very true. Illegal drugs will always be for sale somewhere because of the amount of money to be made. This does not have anything at all to do with the OCS/ROP business.
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#452919 - 02/16/07 07:17 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Enthusiast
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 218
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And for once, these businesses were actually legit and paying taxes to the states and feds. So, the DEA is shutting down the only actual revenue source of legal(?)/illegal drug sales. No sense trying to actually shut down the Mexican pipeline of Crank, Cocain and Weed that is run by the most violent of all criminals. People who pay ZERO taxes, make the world more dangerous and violent and poison our kids because they are easy targets. Nope, the good ole DEA went after the 30 and up tax payers and the legitimate businesses serving them. Another smashing success in the 30-year, un-winnable "war on drugs". Which should be re-titled as "a war on personal freedom". Because that is what it is. What a waste of our money. And what a waste of government resources.
_________________________
Remembering that Keith Richards is still alive makes me breath a sigh of relief.
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#452921 - 02/20/07 11:53 PM
Post deleted by Administrator
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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#452923 - 02/22/07 03:30 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
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Quote:
Quote:
I could not agree with Phil more. There is just too much money to be made for them to just close up. Somehow it will all work out. And yes, it may be a different name, whatever, but the people that are making all the money probobly are not thinking "OK, I've made enough, lets close 'er up" Nope. Not gonna happen. There may be some changes made, but I don't think it will disapear.
Well, this is very true. Illegal drugs will always be for sale somewhere because of the amount of money to be made. This does not have anything at all to do with the OCS/ROP business.
Good point. I am starting to get very tired of the people that post if there is demand... bla bla bla...
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#452924 - 02/22/07 03:42 PM
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Anonymous
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#452925 - 02/23/07 11:48 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
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We have to stop acting like we're criminals simply because we seek pain relief. The OCS model can work.
The Internet hasn't been exploited yet for hardly any of the benefits it could provide with regard to medical maintenance. It will happen in the years to come. We're pioneers suffering under misconceptions continuously repeated by the media. Also, a few unscrupulous operators help give the industry a very bad public image.
JMO, but it's never been the simple lack of a 'face to face' that's taken an OCS or pharmacy down. Correct me where I'm wrong, but keep in mind you may not know all the circumstances behind some closures.
It can change in time. It's going to take effort on the patient's part as well as the OCS's part.
First, OCS's, please come up with better business names than the "NextDayEasyDrugs.com" variety!
_________________________
I'll be back...
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#452927 - 02/24/07 09:29 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Board Addict
Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 155
Loc: Smiles and Cries
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OK.. 1st my 80+ grandparents buy online meds thru canada (and I never showed them how). They got tired of being ripped off by American Pharmacies (the whole triad/cartel/industry) and found a cheaper product. Wow. Welcome to CAPITALISM.
Where is the focus of the American Public, and media, lastly the government?
WHATS HOT!
People in pain trying to live productive lives using any methods they can MUST BE PUNISHED!
Throw in some extreme scenarios of say ...a kid dying in BFE Arkansas from buying online meds.
The media stock is rising... Lable us Junkies so it's easier to sell.
Lets have some angry moms and a senator from Utah... BAM! The WAR on DRUGS is back with a new spin!
WHATS NOT!
Money funded to terriorist orgs (info from the local paper - 7elven,ephedrine,meth <-- scary) via drug trafficking internationally!
The Middle East (or all other outside US involvement ...input your own opinion here).
Crime in the US directly related to poverty (and yes I will say it 'crack sales in the ghettos and dead African-American babies').
AGAIN, Meth <-- wtf?, etc. etc. etc. (if you don't say Baaaahhhhh when you speak you know where i'm going).
History in sindication: Roofies are the 'DATE RAPE drug', wait I mean GHB are the new D.R.D, ummm no X that Rave thing is the new D.R.D., or is it Crank, Meth, Uppers, Bennies, Reds (sorry movie flashback)? I am NOT saying DATE RAPE IS A JOKING MATTER. I am saying that Media sells FEAR... FEAR makes money, money makes policy, politicians perpetuate the cycle. Enter the new threat, the new funding, the more money allocated to fight it.
...Wake your people up! wake up your church, your co-workers, your carpool, your bridge game, JUST WAKE UP!!!!!
Talk and talk and talk more ...b/c this is what?
Say it with me...
dumb
Forrest 'Stupid Is What Stupid Does' Gump - d u m b.
I just HOPE you feel outraged as I...
That's it ...what else is it? Tell me PLEASE.
If it makes my crooked spine straight, my 2 discs to not buldge, the bone spur stop pinching my spine, and the tendonopathy go away... I will listen. I will pray. I will kiss a snake. I will eat my peas -- the whole plate.
Just let me do my job that I love as a Critical Care Nurse... and if there are other nurses out there -- you know what 14hrs and 18 beds full with 6 staffed and 1 monitor tech on graveyard shift is like. You feel me. The lifting the compressions the crash cart.
I LOVE MY JOB ...but my body is wearing out. How am I supposed to REACT when I am being prohibited from doing what I love (and I found that loving your job is rare)?
I am talking about living with pain management -- THERE IS NO PAIN FREE.
You wish one could experience a day in your shoes before casting judgement. Wow.. rant got away from me... cathartic though. 
_________________________
RIP Sadie
--Check my age, not my number.
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#452928 - 02/28/07 08:29 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Threadhead
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 919
Loc: Lost in my own mind
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Quote:
We have to stop acting like we're criminals simply because we seek pain relief. The OCS model can work.
The Internet hasn't been exploited yet for hardly any of the benefits it could provide with regard to medical maintenance. It will happen in the years to come. We're pioneers suffering under misconceptions continuously repeated by the media. Also, a few unscrupulous operators help give the industry a very bad public image.
JMO, but it's never been the simple lack of a 'face to face' that's taken an OCS or pharmacy down. Correct me where I'm wrong, but keep in mind you may not know all the circumstances behind some closures.
You are so correct patient!!! The excuse the government gives for shutting down these sites are because of "THE CHILDREN" - give me a break, this is just some lame excuse!! 
Edited by tem33 (02/28/07 08:30 AM)
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#452931 - 03/01/07 06:14 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3498
Loc: NY/NJ
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Quote:
Hi! I just cast a vote for the poll and was advised that a vote had already been made from my IP. If so, I didn't do it. Never happened. ??????? I don't understand what's going on. Thanks for any info you can give me regarding the above
Hi HissyFit,
My semi-educated guess is that you use a cable modem. With a cable modem, you are sharing the same IP Address with others who are on what is effect shared bandwidth.
It's different for those who use DSL or dialup connections. The DSL folks have a dedicated IP address that belongs only to them.
That is theory 1
The second possibility is that your voting status (not the vote itself) is stored in a cookie on your machine. Perhaps an aborted first attempt resulted in that cookie being set.
--
These safeguards are in place in order to minimize the possibility of people "rigging" such polls by voting repeatedly. Someone technically knowledgable can still probably get around that using tools that "spoof" IP addresses, inadvisable as that may be.
------
There is a way to generate a renewed IP Address on a cable connection by running a utility called WINIPCFG (I think) depending on your O/S. However I would advise against taking that radical step and perhaps being able to get into NO site afterward if things go wrong. You could also clear cookies from your browser. That too I usually find to be a bad idea, many pointers to where you were last on a site and greetings some sites give like 'Welcome back, Hissyfit' will disappear.
However, while I did get an 'A' in my networking class when I attended college, I won't pretend to be anything close to an expert on Networking topics, so DON'T DO EITHER OF THE ABOVE BASED ON MY SAY SO.
---
I'd suggest you follow one of these 4 "safer" choices:
1) Wait for someone smarter than me to respond and give a more definitive answer
2) Email administrator@drugbuyers.com for advice, though there may be a more specific email on the board devoted to technical issues
3) Go to another computer
4) Wait some unknown amount of time and your IP Address will at some point change due to events I won't pretend to understand.
------
I appreciate your interest in answering my poll. I've been capturing the results periodically to see if any "trend" develops as the days since the onset of this crisis began. So far the amount of votes hasn't grown enough to make a definitive assertion (I did spend 10 years working in market research  )
-------
My own personal opinion is that we WILL survive this and get back to a sense of normalcy over time though some changes will/should develop in how the OCS model conducts itself.
In the meantime, sign the petitions and join the organizations devoted to our plight that members Ruggie, Marley and others went to the trouble of compiling and including in their signature lines.
Also write your Senator and Congressperson about these identical bills that are currently pending that would put a severe dent in Telemedicine:
Go to thomas.loc.gov
Look on the middle of the page for "Serch Bill Text"
Check the Radio Button for "Bill Number"
Search for either of these bills:
SB 242
HR 380
Acquaint yourself with what they are planning. You're hurting, you can argue many of those points that are important to use better than a lawyer.
SB 242 - The Senate Bill
HR 380 - House of Reprentative Bill
----
Find your respective Reps:
Look for your state Senators
Find your congressperson who votes in the House
You CAN write a meaningful and poignant letter describing our needs and undertreatment. They'll be surprised that the OCS didn't simply cater to "drug addicts" and "street sellers", but people with desperate pain and anxiety conditions with nowhere else to turn.
Our numbers are greater than many realize and are not confined simply to the membership of DB. I believe we can make a change and again, I feel Telemedicine has a definite future.
There is also a whole activism forum further down on the home page of DB where you'll find lots of resources more valuable than my informal poll that I set up on a whim.
BTW, I'm much better at talking than doing 
Your interest, as is everyones, is appreciated and I do hope you get to cast a vote even in this modest effort.
I'm glad you gave me the segue to bring up those pending bills one again because that is the sort of thing that can really make a difference if enough of us express our opinions. You can take it as far as you like, write all the sponsors, write anyone influential in the political arena who may have some sway and perhaps your appeal may strike a sympathetic chord. Call your local DEA office and express your opinion - DON'T DO THE LAST ONE!!!!!! - their minds are already made up!
Thanks,
_________________________
I'll be back...
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#452932 - 03/01/07 12:04 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Board Addict
Registered: 11/17/03
Posts: 356
Loc: NJ Shore
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Excellent posts, Patient2All!!!  I've already posted some of my opinions of why I think OPs are being shutdown, so I do not want to repeat myself. However, I WOULD like to point something out, if I may. The whole, "Dr. from one state, Patient from another" trip... The DEA CANNOT force this type of law. Here are a couple of reasons why: If my Father has to see an Oncologist in Philly, and he lives in NJ, are you telling me that whatever meds his dr. prescribes cannot be filled at my Dad's hometown pharmacy? Another scenario...what about people who live in NJ, but work in NYC? I know when I used to work in Manhattan and didn't get home until 9:00 PM on weeknights, I switched my medical/dental care to Drs. in NYC whom I would make appts. with on my lunch hour. I don't know the facts about any of the OPs closing, but reading about many bottles of Oxycontin being recovered alone made me go, "Hmmmm." Sch II drugs cannot be faxed or phoned in. Also, I remember reading another thread about An OP or 2 having PA's prescribing Sch III's- which in NJ, at least, they are NOT licensed to do. Peace,  Julz
_________________________
Love never fails. 1Cor 13:8
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#452933 - 03/01/07 12:23 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Banned. Flame wars...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 526
Loc: USA
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Julz,
The issue has never been that a doctor in state A could not serve resident of state B. The issue was that for a doctor to treat a patient while that patient is in another state, the doctor must be licensed in that state also. It makes no mention nor does it prohibit any patient from traveling to any doctor. If it did, the Sloan-Ketterings, Mayo Clinics, and M.D. Andersons of the world could not operate. The DEA can't enforce state-based legilsation. On the other hand, it can contend that if a doctor is not expressly licensed to practice in a particular state, he is therefore not licensed to dispense controlled substances which are shipped to patients there. That's the heart of their contention. In practical terms, it's largely unworkable as it fails to account for the millions who have more than one residence in different states and transfer their prescriptions at some point. The D.E.A. certainly doesn't advocate people "stocking up" on controlled substances just so they can have them in their doctor's "home state", yet the aren't eager to tackle the issue of how to provide for legitimately refillable prescriptions for the Michigan snowbirds who need their refills during January in Arizona.
As far as Schedule II medications like Oxycontin being confiscated during siezures, if this is part of a retail pharmacy, carrying Schedule II medications as part of their regular inventory is standard practice, as is the removal of all controlled substances from the premisis when the D.E.A. initiates an Order to Show Cause. Though the media may have seen the word "Oxycontin" and decided to parrot it onward to the masses who also repeat it on and on, an irrelevant triviality begins to become urban legend and "common law fact", which is very, very unfortunate.
You can bet Cronkite would have made sure he understood the difference before speaking a word of it on air.
The sum-total bottom-line catch-all which the DEA feels will solve for the vast majority of diversion cases is the simple face-to-face examination before treatment. They cannot, in practical terms, act in anticipation of every single case of diversion which occurs. They can, however, and are right to try, to mitigate the most egregious cases which began with the NROPs some years ago. The pendulum will continue to swing back and forth as states decide the extent to which they want to extend full faith and credit to foreign (out of state) doctors when it comes to the practice of telemedicine with the D.E.A. creating the momentum which carries it one way, and patitent and pain management advocates pushing opposite. Sensationalistic reporting, flagrant abuse, vindictive prosecutions, and other mitigating factors influence the extent to which either side pushes at any given point in time until some sort of specific legislation or statute provides with specificity that takes the issue beyond one of various parties interpreting regulations as policy.
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#452936 - 03/01/07 12:51 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Banned. Flame wars...
Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 526
Loc: USA
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Quote:
Thanks for the info. I think it just might be wise to do the face-to-face, you know, CYA!
You're most certainly welcome. It's kind of hard to debate against a face-to-face consultation's likelihood of providing a higher standard of care compared to "remote control". Or, perhaps more correctly, "remote controlleds"
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#452942 - 03/17/07 12:19 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Banned: taking part in, and starting, too many flame wars
Registered: 11/06/05
Posts: 721
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Quote:
What kind of nutz are you?
Just recently we banned you as WileyCoyotee for wanting to bomb the DEA and asking people if they wanted to exchange pills...
Now this!
Ah, I wondered why ole Wiley got bounced. Bomb the DEA, now the DEA should arrest everyone. Hmm.....can we say bipolar? 
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#452943 - 03/17/07 12:24 PM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
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Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6370
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
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Quote:
Tough call right now as to what our future is. Totally understandable. Should have forced a single choice.....
First poll I ever set up here and I worked in Market Research for 10 years!
Thanks for the input so far!
(just a little * bump *)
I have been creating polls for years and have never managed to get one right :-)
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#812886 - 12/10/08 12:57 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
[Re: Chris1958]
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Stranger
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 13
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OP,NROP,IOP, etc... They are just a newer face on the same old business. There have been ways to get pharms since long before this interweb thingy, my buddy's dad ran a "pill mill" for years. Must have been done by phone and mail in those days. Don't know the details but he was at one point a legit dr who retired very young, with a huge house and fine cars and all...left it all to my friend who snorted his inheritance away during the 80's and ended up in jail in NY last I heard. Point is...If online methods dry up, others will replace them. At one point pharmacies got my phone number somehow (CC?) and called 8-10 times/day offering anything. The operators said that they would ship anything I asked for. Never did it though as I suspect scams...and don' have a taste for the really heavy stuff. The early post suggesting that basic supply and demand was not relevant for this medium isn't being realistic. This site owes its existence to globalism. In the overall global drug market our demand drives the import and manufacture of these products that we are all here trying to get a piece of. ANd if the doc won't prescribe we'll try to get it by internet, email, telephone, or hand to hand if necessary. LE may be able to make it unaffordable for you and I but money will always flow around the law somehow. Detection methods will improve, inspections will get better but our global supply system makes enforcement almost impossible. Quality may suffer and it'll become like the illegal drug markets but pills will flow out of lax countries and into rich consumer mouths no matter what. And when the west loses power we will be the ones trying to sell into whatever country has the money then. Sorry about the rant... not trying to flame out over it or anything, but I have alot of years of business school and work experience telling me that buyers will always get what they want somehow. Isn't that why you and I are on this site?
Edited by Delawaredrew (12/10/08 01:02 AM)
Edit Reason: clarity
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#813433 - 12/11/08 03:59 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
[Re: Delawaredrew]
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Threadhead
Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 804
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Drew, I have a feeling that it's going to become a combination of hand to hand and phone conversations. We've never been able to curtail the inflow with any success and drug dealers are always one step ahead. And even if they fall behind, they find a new way and off to the races they go again. As an example: In my area, I could go downtown (which I don't because unfortunately I don't seem to have the ability to manuever one-way streets) and get percocets, xanax, valium, etc. any day of the week. Any day. Make a call, get what you need. I know someone, who knows someone, who is the girlfriend of that person (are you following? lol - it get convulated) and that person has connections to people in another large city close by. Can't find it in this area? Get it in the other area. People, especially the older generation, daily sell their pills to make their rent, pay bills, put food on the table, etc. It's impossible to stop something that random. When the people are different, the places are different, the meetings are different, the LE would have to tail every single person getting a prescription for a medicine that is a Schedule IV and above. I think they'd have to hire more people. My daughter is on Adderall XR 10mg so I guess they'd have to tail her around too. You are right that there will always be a way around the laws. You can't ban the thousands of internet sites that sell medicine, you can't ban email sources that no one knows about except the few people allowed into that source. (and no, I don't know any email sources so don't PM me, it was an example)
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#848142 - 02/22/09 09:39 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
[Re: nikitaylor]
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Newbie
Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 26
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it looks to me like there's a loophole in the new law. No controlled substance that is a prescription drug as determined under the Federal Food, drug, and Cosmetic Act may be delivered, distributed, or dispensed by means of the Internet without a valid prescription. what is a valid prescription?
‘(A) The term ‘valid prescription’ means a prescription that is issued for a legitimate medical purpose in the usual course of professional practice by--
‘(i) a practitioner who has conducted at least 1 in-person medical evaluation of the patient; or
‘(ii) a covering practitioner.
what is a covering practitioner?
‘(C) The term ‘covering practitioner’ means, with respect to a patient, a practitioner who conducts a medical evaluation (other than an in-person medical evaluation) at the request of a practitioner who--
‘(i) has conducted at least 1 in-person medical evaluation of the patient or an evaluation of the patient through the practice of telemedicine, within the previous 24 months; and
‘(ii) is temporarily unavailable to conduct the evaluation of the patient.
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#848424 - 02/23/09 06:08 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
[Re: martind]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 629
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I went back to the bill to find the wording but it's archived now so it doesn't show the full session on it without researching it more. If no one is disputing the bill it just gets passed. This is after it goes through committee's and all. I bet the wording for this type of passage is somewhere on Drugbuyers.com in the RHA act form but I just don't have time to research it right now. This was a feel good bill for the government. If you check the bill you will see there is no roll call/ or vote for it. It was just passed. K No matter what we look at and see no Dr. is going to do a consult after April 15th without seeing the patient first. The OCS should have lobbied a little with the millions they made to help with this bill when it was in the house. What happened was no one showed up and the bill was passed without even a vote. K Now that is amazing. How did they manage to pass a bill without voting on it?
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#848489 - 02/23/09 09:10 AM
Re: Is it really the end? A Poll
[Re: tango5]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 629
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This is how it's stated in all actions relating to RHA: Time line http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR06353:@@@X Passed Senate without amendment by Unanimous Consent. (consideration: CR S10184-10185) Sentors speaking about bill: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r110:1:./temp/~r1109zwzGK:e47746: On 9/23 motion to suspend the Rules and pass the bill, as amended Agreed to by voice vote. On 9/25 it was read twice to the senate. Bill passes house 9/30/08 by unanimous consent. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:HR06353:@@@X This bill was basicly hotlined. Hot lined explained: The Senate “Hotlines” Bills Without Debate or Votes A “hotline” is an informal term for a request to members of the Senate to agree to allow a bill or resolution to be approved by the Senate without debate or amendment. A measure that is “hotlined” is recorded in the Congressional Record as a being agreed to by unanimous consent (UC). (Some hotlines can include amendments but limit debate and discussion and do not require individual votes on the amendment or the underlying bill). This link is interesting since it says some staff members can hold on to a bill the senator does not know about and just gets passed as unanimous consent. I wonder how many senators didn't know about this bill or other bills that effect american lives. http://coburn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=HoldItems.Home K
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