anyone know the difference between codeine sulfate, codeine hydrochloride and codeine phosphate. why is oxycodone more potent than hydrocodone or codeine? and docs out there with answers.

There is little difference berween the salts of codeine and doses are equal. Hydrocodone and oxycodone are different chemicals and are more potent than codeine.

how much codeine sulfate would one consume to equal a 10/500 hydro. i always thought hydro and oxy were just more potent forms of codeine. who new

Some opiate conversion calculators say 30mg codeine to 10 mg hydrocodone. I think it is a little worse than that.

Sweet jesus man! Someone with full and proper knowledge could go on for days explaining answers your questions to the fullest extent.

As Neprho said, codeine is codeine in any of its salts (although I don't think they make a hydrochloride, never seen that) and is pretty much equally potent with a few minor differences not worth noting.

Oxycodone and hydrocodone are semi-synthetic opiates as they are not naturally occuring, but they do share a common base with codeine and morphine, just with different chemical extensions attached.

Thus, their potencies pretty much lie in there somewhere. Even though they're somewhat similar structurally, they do possess small differences in their bonds which make them more or less effective than each other, with different side-effects and properties (sedation, euphoria, analgesia potential, etc).

Codeine? At this point, better than nothing.

would 30mg codeine sulfate cause any euphoric effects. if i take a 10/500 hydro i barely even notice i consumed said pill. i know im asking a bunch of questions but i figure theres some people on this forum with experience that may be able to answer my questions. while on this topic is alprazolam more effective in treating anxiety disorder than deizepam. im curious becuase i was just put on 2mg alprazolam and i feel nothing. i have to take three (6mg) to even notice any relaxing, calming effects. that being said, no prior use so its not a tolerance issue. i am considering asking my doctor to either supply with 90 pills a month or switch me to another anti-anxiety medicine. any input greatly appreciated. also anyone ever heard of taking a 25mg dramamine with the alprazolam to increase effect. iv'e researched and couldn't find any drug interactions indicated anyware. if i consume 50mg of dramamine than i can get away with only taking 4mg of alprazolam to get desired effect.

Most opioid-naive people can feel mild euphoria from 60mg codeine. Sensitive people may feel 30mg; there have been people on here who said they can feel 16mg. It also depends on stomach contents, dosage form and patient activity.

Regarding the benzo question, you need to change to a different one.

6mg of alprzolam is a pretty large dose.I would talk to my doc about changing something,as nephro said.

hydrocodone is codeine methylbromide. Its just running through a synthetic chemical reaction to make it turbo charged if you will.

most of the deriviatives of Morphine and Opium are same base and different functional groups that are attached. The different functional groups effect the metabolic route and absorption, bioavailability etc..

Personally synthetic deriviatives can be awesome such as dilauded, which works even on me with my disorder.
There is a website on opiates which has the structures of all of the opiates, just google opiate structures I think.

All a good chemist needs is a ticket to Afghanistan and a few easily obtainable chemicals and Voila...no stinkin' DEA there..just warlords! Ahhh pipe dreams

im going back to see doc tomorrow about the xanax. hopefully he'll put me on something else. i am curious as to why the xanax doesn't effect me. i wonder if even my doc will be able to answer that. is valium any better than xanax. 6mg of xanax and anxiety goes away but i'm not 'high' or even anything close to that. but from what i understand 4mg a day is all thats recomended by the medical folks. so i dont think he will give me 90 pills to last me a month. most likely he will change the med, anyone with experience with anxiety know a good replacement?? and can someone tell me why the HELL doesn't xanax work on me!!

Exactly what desired effects are you looking for from your pain and anxiety meds? 60mg's of Codeine give me mild sedation and pain relief for about 2hrs. No benzo's give me a high feeling. Xanax just makes me feel stupid and mentally challenged. Ativan is very calming but wears off quickly. Valium is useless. Klonopin work very well at relaxing me and lasts for hours and hours. My guess is your Dr. would switch you to Klonopin maybe .5-1mg 3xday unless your looking for something similar to Xanax, in the way it makes you feel, then it's prob. Ativan 1mg 3xday.- IMHO

Changing the alprazolam to diazepam or clonazepam might be a smart move anyway, since Xanax is notoriously difficult to quit. I tried alprazolam once and it did very little for me too, and I have no tolerance. It's just the inexact nature of this science - your doctor probably won't be able to explain it, so don't worry, just try an alternative.

Benzodiazepines are fundamentally different from opiates and cannot be 'compared'.

FYI, opiates are the only true mood elevators as in causing a high. No antidepressant, in this sense, is actually a mood "elevator."

Stits

Yep and much of the public does not appreciate or is not aware of the prior exposure factor to tolerance-inducing drugs.

You'd be suprised--the opiate virgin is fully sensitive to very small doses. Similarly, the benzo virgin can experience a glorious relaxation bordering on (subjective) euphoria from just a 5 mg Valium.

But if abused, once addiction sets in (these are inherently addicting substances) and tolerance becomes an integral factor to relative efficacy ("strength") - then all bets are off.

An addict used to several times the aforementioned normative dose-levels of the aforementioned drugs can ingest a normal dose and not feel it at all.

Stits

Does anyone know of a good online pharmacy to order codeine from? I have had good service and product from Pharmaenergy/Pharmedics with their Azul, Klipal and Codicompren but super pricey. Any suggestions?

I would rather codeine 120mg than hydro 20mg. If anyone knows a source Notify me!

I agree with you moocher. I used to buy codicompren and it was good. Now I result to cold water extraction (through and unbleached coffee filter.) Works great but just a hassle. I was just refered to biotran.com and rxvogue.com but if those are reputable sources i am wondering why they arnt reveiwed on here. Prices are great for pure codein 50mg tabs! I will probably try their sample gig.

if either site works, post a review!!

theres also codeine hemihydrate!!! i find there is a SLIGHT difference between the codeine sulfate(kapake) and c.hemihydate(solpadol),the kapake makes me feel a bit more sleepy,not so much of a hit(this is only slight remember!)
Then the codeine phosphate,that is probably my favourite,because of the hit,but after a while,my voice starts to go,because of the codeine,it makes the throat a bit"slack",so you cough more often,and get a croaky voice!!
All in all codeine is codeine,not much difference at all.if you need it,any of it will work!!! just noticed at my local pharmacy(chemist here in uk),theyve got phlocodeine,thats that,"purple juice" is it?
have never tried hydro or oxy,too expensive,so i cant compare to codeine(unless youve got freebies,ill glady guinea pig for ya!!)

There's a thread on Biotran. Most people report good results. August isnt a good time to try to get on the list since Biotran is under staffed.

The operator of Biotran was likened to the 'Soup Nazi' on Seinfeld. He likes things his way and if you get on his bad side, even a LL, no more soup for you.

I among others noticed that years ago. Wayne is an oddity, limited choices, strict Rules, cash only, but a long running business.

Re Biotran, I have had really good results (6 / 6) with them by sending cash-in-advance, and NOT going through the sample, email, phone call, etc., etc. routine.

From the beginning, I just mailed the cash (with his Order Form) and told them (writing on the Order Form) that I wanted to pay cash-in-advance. And it has worked for me. I have always paid cash-in-advance.

Uhhh, this is of course a different procedure than most follow re Biotran.

I took this approach because: "I wanted to be just the kind of customer he wanted". He trusts many by sending out samples first. I wanted to pay first, and so trusting him, sending my money first (cash in an envelope, LOL, how 20th Century!), but this worked for me.

For me, Biotran rocks! I sent them the dough first, and am 100% received OK.

Naturally, YMMV. Good luck!

im sorry but I dont follow this specific thread and I have a kinda rookie question, Is codeine an effective enough drug to relieve menstral pain?

it all depends on how bad your pain is and how your body relates to codeine. For me, it would not have touched it. Way back when I was being treated for it I was given Talacen which did work. But now, because I'm on daily hydro 7.5's, I'm sure Talacen wouldn't work.

So, how bad is it? Does it double you over or is it mild?

codeine is the ONLY opioid i have found so far that do not make me unbelievably sick.

all the other popular ones i've had, mostly hydrocodone, oxycodone, and fentnyl (sp?) make me sick as a dog and i just puke my brains out like some freshman boy who's been to his first frat party the entire time. even on very small doses, aka half a 5mg hydro. i mean, i will literally LIVE in the bathroom, puking/dry heaving every 2-5 min until the stuff wears off. (sorry for the gross image). no euphoria whatsoever, not even a hint of any of the pleasant feelings most people describe while on this stuff.

but when i was prescribed 30x Tylenol-3 for my wisdom teeth last year, i tried it and was amazed to realize that codeine does not produce ANY of these negative effects to me whatsoever?!? no nausea, no dizzyness, no spins at all. simply just a calm, relaxed, warm internal feeling (like a good hug that lasts and lasts) and a mild and slightly pleasant tingling sensation through my whole body, especially my arms and legs and fingers and toes. very nice experience, and, most importantly, no pain from my (now missing) wisdom teeth at all!

im not really a big fan of the opiates that much, and do not wish to use them unless i am in a LOT of pain, but does anyone know why this happens to me? am i just being a girl and that other stuff is too strong for me? i doub't it, and i hope i don't get in trouble for saying this, but after my mouth healed i had like 5 of those T3's left over, so i decided a have a couple glasses of wine and eat the rest of the bottle 30mg codeine each times 5 pills equals 150mg all at once. regretted it immediately after thinking i was about to be puking all night like i do on hydro, oxy, etc but what followed was one of the most pleasurable and comforting drug experiences i have ever had. almost makes me want to never take codeine again because as i found out that night i like it, a LOT, maybe too much!

but my question to you all's is: anyone know why i get violently ill on every opioid except codeine, which makes me feel just absolutely wonderful while taking away the pain at the same time? i mean, 150mg of codeine has got to be at least as strong if not much stronger than 2.5mg of hydro, yet the codeine makes me feel good and the hydro makes me feel like i want to die puking my guts out. are there any scientific explanations for this? or am i just weird?

many thanks

-Jen

I have a close friend that is allergic to all synthetic opioids (hydro, oxy, etc), but can take opioids that are a product of natural opium, like morphine and codeine.

yeah i have a friend like that too who can't take synthetic opiates due to allergy. but i don't get the allergic reaction symptoms (my doc even told me this). it just makes me very very sick to my stomach and feel like absolute sh!t. once i even experienced auditory hallucinations for an hour or so on 5mg of oxy, all the while feeling like my hands and feet were being crushed in a vice. its like it exacerbates the pain in my body instead of relieving it. my doc insists its just a tolerance issue, since i'm pretty opiate naive. but its hard for me to believe that a 2.5mg hydro dose could cause 4 or 5 continuous hours on the porcelain, followed by a 24hr hangover, even in an opiate naive individual. especially when i can tolerate 150mg of codeine all at once, with alcohol, no prob whatsoever.

thank you for sharing the story of your friend with me, Anne. maybe i really am allergic but just have atypical symptoms of the allergic reaction.

EDIT: to anyone reading this, please do not EVER take that much codeine all at once unless told to do so by a doctor. that is a MASSIVE overdose and was a very poor decision on my part at the time. and just because i was lucky enough not to end up in the ER having my stomach pumped followed by a involuntary vacation to rehab, doesn't mean you will be.

OK, codeine is my favorite med re SINGLE CAUSES of problems (if I HAD TO only take 1 med to the desert island...), while overseas. Stops diarhreah, helps one sleep, relieves pain...

OK, many of you have problems with this med, but it works for me. Of course each of us vary. But, the one med that "cures the most" (of the relativey easy to get meds) of problems is codeine, at least for me.

If codeine works for you, AND IF your Doc. is truculent about prescribing it, then consider sites like biotran.co.uk.

I am with you Plat! Codeine seems to be a universal drug for me. I have been ordering perds from biotran but I have a question. As we all know Perduritas are 50 mg pure codeine. Codesian, also offered from biotran, is 30 mg pure codeine. Why is the price of codesian slightly higher even though it has lower codeine content? Is codesian higher quality?

The only difference I'm aware of is that the perds are time released and the codes are immediate release.

Technically, I think the codes are closer to 28mg than 30mg.

Ok.....let me get my brain around what iam reading a 150 mg of codeine equals one 2.5 hydro? Do they make 2.5 hydro? Or this is just a easy way of comparing? Pls dont laugh iam just asking.....not as smart as you guys....

30 mgs of Codeine is supposedly equal to 5 mgs Hydro. Hence the name VIcodin. VI the Roman numeral for six. Meaning, six times more potent milligram to milligram of Hydro to Codeine.

They do make a 2.5 tab of Hydo, usually prescribed to children..

See the narcotic convertor at: http://www.medcalc.com/narcotics.html

I thought it was 28.5 ????????


ok this one is pretty much the same as the admins

http://www.globalrph.com/narcotic.cgi

Codeine phosphate hemihydrate is just a description of the 'water part' of codeine phosphate.

Kapake should contain codeine phosphate - the British version, that is. It has to, in order to qualify as co-codamol.

Pholcodine linctus is yellow, not purple, though brands such as Pavacol-D and Pholcomed may be different. It has virtually no narcotic effect, though it works as a cough suppressant to some extent.

Conversion charts give varying results. However, pharmacokinetics provides this answer based on keytones:

Hydrocodone is the hydrogenated keytone of codeine:

Changing codeine into hydrocodone increases its activity and therefore makes hydrocodone about six times stronger than codeine on a weight basis, all other things being equal. Changed also is lipid solubility, contributing to hydrocodone having a more rapid onset of action and alterations to the overall Absorption, Distribution, Metabolism & Elimination profile as well as the side effect profile (generally less nausea and itching) versus that of codeine. The semi-synthetic opiates, of which its codeine analogue hydrocodone are amongst the best-known and oldest, include a huge number of drugs of varying strengths and with differences amongst themselves both subtle and stark, allowing for many different options for treatment.

SB, yours give Codeine to Hydro as 4.5mgs. Closer to the hydrogenated keytone of 5.0. Thus the analogy of VIcodin 5.0 mg is 6 times the strength of Codeine milligram to milligram. Admin's chart is way off at 1.2-2.4

NBG, the chart I posted has been around for a long time and allows a cross referance also. I don't know which is closer, as I have only had hydro one time after a broken wrist, and surgery. I had actually started the first few days on percosets, then the hydro, by that time I could'nt tell any effect. It must have worked as I had no mo pain.

Maybe if you never go to anything stronger than codeine, that would help, but then again I never had any broken bones in my back, or elsewhere..

( but I have had a pain in the neck )

Yor chart is the closest SB.

I've read that SSRI's (Prozac, Lexapro, etc.) effectively block the conversion of codeine to morphine in the body, is this the same for SNRI's (Effexor, Pristiq)? I'm currently on the latter and considering switching to codeine for pain relief since it is much cheaper than other narcotics.

Has anyone else heard this? I'm on an SSRI and thinking of switching to codeine (at least part time) as well.

The medical literature that I've read specifically indicates that SSRI's Paxil, Prozac and Luvox can significantly reduce or eliminate the painkilling properties of codeine by inhibiting its conversion to morphine in the liver.
I have not seen many specifics on the newer SNRI's but the little I have seen indicates a similar reduction in the analgesic effect of codeine.

I have heard that codeine (without apap of course) is really a superior painkiller to most of our over the counter meds like ibu and apap because it does not have any long term damaging side effects. Both acetaminophen and ibuprofen can seriously damage ones liver and or pancrease. Is it true that codeine, when taken alone, does no damage at all? I cannot seem to find the info to substantiate this one way or the other on the web. anyone?

It depends on what your definition of "damage" is.
Codeine is an opiate and thus has all of the unwanted side effects that can occur with this class of medication:
breathing disorders
urinary incontinence
impacted bowel
seizures and convulsions
harm to unborn babies
blurred vision
hearing loss

It can also exacerbate an existing liver or kidney condition and various forms of mental illness.
I do not subscribe to the theory that unadulterated narcotics like codeine, morphine and oxycodone can be taken ad infinitum without any undue "damage" to the human body. The medical equation should be to consistently have the painkilling properties outweigh the negative effects on the body.

yup,as always you are correct about the pholcodine,sorry to go off topic,but yea,it has no effect as far as a codeine substitute.

I have a question. I know it's not advisable to take Tramadol with hydro, but what about taking it with codeine?

A good rule of thumb is to be careful of any combo of medication that could multiply dangerous side effects.
For instance, opioids can slow breathing in normal dosage ranges. Adding an "opioid-like" med like Tramadol to codeine can slow breathing even more especially if taken prior to sleeping.
It is a good idea to research the side effects of medications prior to combining them to be aware of any potential problems. Asking a pharmacist is always advised as well.

tried them both together with no problems at all,but if in doubt,dont do it.

Is it true that pure codeine without the apap, such as in Perds, causes no long term damage to the human body provided the user stays below the 200 - 250mg per day range?

You must consider constipation, and the other damage constipation can cause.

Along with headaches, itching, limited libido and the ever popular "respiratory depression."
At the doses described, these are only potentially damaging effects while taking the drug. Funny how those doses seem to be only temporary, however, in most cases.
Once the drug is discontinued the constipation and other negative effects should dissipate.
If your question is "will I totally screw up my body by taking codeine this way?" the answer is probably not.
Assuming you are not mixing with alcohol and other drugs.

The worst thing I find with codeiene and opiates is not being able to finish the job when love making.A bit of a turn off for my wife.Other than that no complaints.

Codeine is thought to be more constipating than Hydro. Maybe some of you medical geniuses can tell us why. It is great for calming the digestive track, esp. diarrhea. However, when taken at the above quantity, it is a quick ticket to having impacted stool. This can require a trip to the ER and having all kinds of fun or scary procedures, such as manual removal or surgery. So, no, I would not say there is no long term effects from this usage, unless you don't mind living without your colon. One person had to havfe a section removed. If you are using codeine with any degree of regularity (no pun intended) as your doc about a stool softener such as Colace.

This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss codeine and not the companies offering it.

Thanks for your support

This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss codeine and not the companies offering it.

Thanks for your support

xxx off topic deleted xxx

xxx off topic deleted xxx

This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss codeine and not the companies offering it.

Thanks for your support

The REAL codeine causes me to have esophageal spasms. They are VERY intense and EXTREMELY painful - so painful that the first time I had them, I was quickly rushed by ambulance to the nearest ER because the pain and symptoms are the same as a heart attack. I would recommend that anyone taking codeine for the first time in any form use caution, especially if you have any type of GERD or reflux issues.

Is it possible that I would somehow be immune to the effects of DHC? I have always found codeine to be a big help to me but I recently tried some DHC because I had heard it is more pure and has less side effects i.e. constipation. The problem was it seemed to do absolutely nothing to me. I took a 40mg and about two hours later two more 40s. These were not time release they were genuine DF118. They had like zero effect. Expirey date is 1/11 so I know that isnt it. Could it be cuz I usually take codeine on an empty but took these with food?