Let me just express my sympathy and my experience; Cuddles, get in there with the doc...if the pt cant not speak for themself, they will happily not prescribe...but oxy would be the way to go...honey, my dad had liver cancer and in the VA, they GAVE HIM ORAL LIQUID MORPHINE....WITH A BAD LIVER...AND WHEN HE STILL FREAKED, THEY GAVE HIM 1 MG OF ATIVAN...my ever lasting shame is that I did not fight my uncle...my father my father, I will never forgive myself for how he passed I should have helped him.

Tell that doc you want him on Iv meds and that you want to make sure all meds are administered completely to him...

I am sending you a big hug.

I think i remember you talking about this in another thread awhile back.. IM sorry you and your loved ones had to go thru that.. He has been sick for awhile but the worst came on so quick! I watch him laying there ,breathing heavy , and I wish i could take his place.. He is a wonderful man.. his granchildren are going to be devistated especially the 6 year old because he has been living here since she was born and he did everything with her.. He's a retired coal miner... A very proud man who, if knew is daughter in law was changing him would devistate him.. not in a mean way but embarrassed.. Hospice is coming in the morning. I will definitly talk to her.. his dad passed from the same disease and im worried about my husband falling to the same fate..

Cuddles,

That would really depend on how long he was taking it. I have been on oxycodone for almost 15 years so in my opinion, I would say no. But, if I think really hard back to when I had taken a 5mg oxycodone the very first time, it worked like magic.

I would never have believed in a million years that I would ever be prescribed 180 10mg percocet a month, just for breakthrough pain.

It did take a long time to build up the tolerance though. I was on oxycontin for a short period of time but my tolerance to that just skyrocketed so quickly that I had to switch to something else. It is really strange as both are made from the same stuff.

But for some reason the oxycodone aka percocet, has been my life saver. After 15 years of chronic illness, it still works for me, albeit at a larger dose. All the other schedule II long acting meds never lasted me more than a year or 18 months at best before I maxed out due to tolerance.

Everyone is different of course. But I would think if he was never a pain medication user, the oxycodone would be pretty strong for him. I would think they would be able to monitor it by his blood pressure. My doctor can tell immediately how I am feeling the days I see him by my bp. When my pain kicks in my bp goes way up.

I hope he is as pain free as humnaly possible. No one should ever suffer needlessly.

All the best,

Shayne

no he has never been on any type of pain meds before.. Heck its only been the last 5years or so we could get him to go to the doctors.. lol these old timers... He's alot more calm and is breathing easier than he was last nite.. it appears to be enough at the moment..

That is good for him. It means there is a lot of room for movement if his pain is to increase. If they were to start him on something too strong it would be more difficult to get the pain under control as it worsens.

All the best to you and your family. You have had your share of heartache.

Shayne

Cuddles-my father died from liver cancer. I was able to keep him in his home under hospice care. It's tough nursing someone 24/7 but you will at least know he got the best care he could ever have. My dad went from hydro to liquid morphine to the patch and at the end when he ws unresponsive they put him on a morphine drip with an automatic button that we could push for extra pain control. I honestly feel he was very well controlled pain wise. Towards the end his organs shut down one by one he was in a coma-like state for a couple of weeks. None of his bodily functions worked he just took a breath about 5 times a minute. If you are worried that he is in pain and can't tell you, ask hospice for the iv morphine. It will deliver a constant amount and extra when his caregivers push the button. The ativan helped alot early on because when the liver was shutting down he tended to hallucinate and be restless. Hang in there and feel free to PM if I can answer any more questions for you.

you are NOT alone, and it sounds like your loved-one is blessed to have you as his advocate!! Keep communicating with the hospice, the nurses I know in hospice (and I have done some myself in my younger days) will do everything they can day or nite to help. If he can take pills for now it might be best for him, but as was previously mentioned, he might need some other access for breakthru pain...best wishes ~~MANO

my father in law passed away this afternoon among his wife,children ,daughter in laws,and grandchildren..thanks everyone once again for the kind and compassionate words.. They dont go unnoticed and wont be forgoten.. thanks again..

you have my sympathy and prayers cuddles

DMG - Yes, I'm Anais333 on the VIP board. I guess I'll have to check more carefully regarding sympathetic doctors, though right now I am waiting for a battery of new tests (bone scans, MRIs, X-rays) that will be completed w/n the next 3 or 4 weeks. After that, I have another app't w/doc (pain specialist), and I hope he'll give me something effective. Otherwise, I will search elsewhere. By the way, can you tell me what other sites you're referring to? (PM me if more appropriate).

Many thanks for your feedback.

S2S/Anaïs

Cuddles, your FIL was blessed to have you in his corner. I'm sure you helped ease his suffering immensely thru your own struggles & experience w/CP. We should all be so fortunate to have such an understanding & compassionate advocate looking out for us!! I am glad he is not suffering anymore, so sorry for your loss. Peace~~MANO

I know that there are people like you that really have a need and you address that need in a way that works for you. People that let their addiction/dependance get out of control are the ones that will do anything to get their drug. It is not always opiates. A person that is addicted to alcohol will also rob any store if it will get them one more drink. Some people just can't use any drug without getting totally out of control. I have nothing to back this up but I believe that these people are a very small part of the population but get a lot of print devoted to their situation because of some of the stupid things that they do. You are right that for hundreds of years opiates were used to treat depression. You are also right that there is just not much money to be made off of opiates except as a street drug. Opiates are also much safer than the manufactured mood enhancers and the other man made drugs are just as addictive, but that is were the money is at.

This implies that a person with a disease can't be treated if they become dependant on a substance. It begs the question: What is worse, living (or dying) with a disease such as depression or living with a drug dependency. If there is no law being broken, where is the harm?

OXYCODONE >

Has been a complete life saver for me n stuff ... I luvs my percs , when a nuthn else worked they DID !!!!

Wow...this has been a great thread! Several issues have hit so close to home and I thank all of you for sharing. My father also is dying from cancer; renal cell carsanoma with a sarcoma; and has the cancer in his brain, his lungs and his bones. After watching him suffer on Ultracet (I think I spelled that correctly) I called his oncologist and asked for something that would control his pain better. His doctor asked me what I wanted prescribed as he would give me what "I" wanted but he wouldn't suggest anything due to the issue of over-prescribing to the terminally ill. HUH? And we would need to know that his records would state his family requested something specific. So frustrating! Watching my 57 year old father dying is hard enough...watching him hurt so bad he can't even talk is horrendous. Like what would happen? He would become addicted for the rest of his life (expected to be less then 6 months)? And as Cuddles was saying, my Dad too is someone who has never taken more then asprin for his entire life: no addictive behaviors ever. One of the reasons I hopped on this board was to ask questions about pain meds so I could be a little more informed in dealing with his situation. Thanks for all of the great input.

Shelle

I believe almost any doctor will give your father what he needs to control the pain as much as possible. Doctors are not without compassion. It is just in our culture that they have to very careful with pain killers. I have made this statement before that it is not the DEA or the government that doctors fear, it is the lawyers.

MELODY,
I AM NEW TO THIS, BUT WOULD LIKE TO GET SOME INFO. FROM SOMEONE WHO MAY KNOW BEST. A FEW YEARS AGO, BACK IN 2001 I GOT IN TOUCH WITH A DOCTOR ON-LINE THAT WAS PRESCRIBING ME VICODIN/XANAX. STANDARD FEE/CONSULT WITH RE-FILLS. NOW MOST OF THE SITES WANT MEDICAL RECORDS. I HAVE NO HEALTH INSURANCE, AND THE REASON I WAS DOING THE ON-LINE THING WAS BECAUSE I HAVE A 4 YEAR OLD { SHE WAS 10 MONTHS OLD THEN } BUT IT WAS EASIER TO DO ALL OF THIS ON-LINE AND VIA THE PHONE AS OPPOSED TO GOING TO THE DOCTORS OFFICE AND DRAGGING HER WITH ME. ALSO IF I GO TO THE DOCTORS AND HAVE THE EXAMS AND TESTING DONE { WHICH I CAN'T AFFORD TO DO } THEY WOULD JUST GIVE ME A SCRIPT ANYWAYS. I HAVE PAIN IN MY NECK AND LOWER BACK FROM LIVING WITH AN ABUSER. ARE THERE ANY RELIABLE SITES THAT YOU CAN JUST PAY AND HAVE A PHONE CONSULT? OR WHERE ARE ALL THESE WALK-IN CLINICS THAT MOST OF THE SITES REQUIRE THAT YOU GO TO FOR RECORDS? IF YOU CAN HELP ME OUT BY LETTING ME KNOW I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.
THANKS,
KIMBAMOON

Oxycodone, percocets, etc. I agree. Very tough for a lot of folks to control the long term use. I know 2 people that can't stop taking percocets. IMO, easier to quit hydro. Just my opinion. BTW, anyone asking, won't find on-line.

Methadone was created by the Nazi's due to a shortage of Morphine. I take Oxycontin 40mg 3 a day and Oxycone 15mg for breakthrough every six hours. This works well for me.
I am thinking about asking the doc just to put me on 30mg Oxycodone so I can stay awake. He had me on Adderall 20mg XR but I hated it. Since I started on Oxy's, I do not drink at all, which is a blessing. I use to go out and get falling down drunk.

LDN enhances oxycodone's analgesia

Pharmacol Biochem Behav. 2005 Oct;82(2):252-62. Epub 2005 Sep 21.
Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Ultra-low-dose naltrexone reduces the rewarding potency of oxycodone
and relapse vulnerability in rats.

Leri F, Burns LH.

Department of Psychology, University of Guelph (Guelph, ON), Canada
N1G 2W1.

Ultra-low-dose opioid antagonists have been shown to enhance opioid
analgesia and alleviate opioid tolerance and dependence. Our present
studies in male Sprague-Dawley rats assessed the abuse potential of
oxycodone+ultra-low-dose naltrexone (NTX) versus oxycodone alone. The
lowest NTX dose (1 pg/kg/infusion), but not slightly higher doses (10
and 100 pg/kg/infusion), enhanced oxycodone (0.1 mg/kg/infusion)
intravenous self-administration, suggesting a reduced rewarding potency
per infusion. During tests of reinstatement performed in extinction
conditions, co-self-administration of any of these three NTX doses
significantly reduced drug-seeking precipitated by priming injections of
oxycodone (0.25 mg/kg, s.c.), a drug-conditioned cue, or foot-shock
stress. During self-administration on a progressive-ratio schedule,
animals self-administering oxycodone (0.1 mg/kg/infusion)+NTX (1
pg/kg/infusion) reached a "break-point" sooner and showed a trend toward
less responding compared to rats self-administering oxycodone alone (0.1
mg/kg/infusion). In the final experiment, the addition of ultra-low-dose
NTX (10 pg/kg, s.c.) enhanced the acute stimulatory effect of oxycodone
(1 mg/kg, s.c.), as well as locomotor sensitization produced by repeated
oxycodone administration (7 x 1 mg/kg, s.c.). In summary, this work
shows that ultra-low-dose NTX co-treatment augments the locomotor
effects of oxycodone as it enhances opioid analgesia, but reduces
oxycodone's rewarding potency and subsequent vulnerability to relapse.

PMID: 16182352 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2005 Sep;181(3):576-81. Epub 2005 Oct 12.
Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Ultra-low-dose naltrexone suppresses rewarding effects of opiates
and aversive effects of opiate withdrawal in rats.

Olmstead MC, Burns LH.

Department of Psychology, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, K7L
3N6, Canada.

RATIONALE: Ultra-low-dose opioid antagonists enhance opiate
analgesia and attenuate tolerance and withdrawal. OBJECTIVES: To
determine whether ultra-low-dose naltrexone (NTX) coadministration
alters the rewarding effects of opiates or the aversive effects of
opiate withdrawal. METHODS: We used the conditioned place preference
(CPP) and conditioned place aversion (CPA) paradigms to assess whether
ultra-low-dose NTX alters the acute rewarding effects of oxycodone or
morphine, or the aversive aspect of withdrawal from either drug. To
assess the dose response for ultra-low-dose NTX, a range of NTX doses
(0.03-30 ng/kg) was tested in the oxycodone CPP experiment. In order to
avoid tolerance or sensitization effects, we used single conditioning
sessions and female rats, as females are more sensitive to the
conditioning effects of these drugs. RESULTS: Ultra-low-dose NTX (5
ng/kg) blocked the CPP to morphine (5 mg/kg) and the CPA to withdrawal
from chronic morphine (5 mg/kg, for 7 days). Coadministration of
ultra-low-dose NTX (30 pg/kg) also blocked the CPA to withdrawal from
chronic oxycodone administration (3 mg/kg, for 7 days). The effects of
NTX on the CPP to oxycodone (3 mg/kg) revealed a biphasic dose response.
The two lowest doses (0.03 and 0.3 ng/kg) blocked the CPP, the middle
dose (3 ng/kg) was ineffective, and oxycodone combined with the highest
dose (30 ng/kg) produced a trend toward a CPP. CONCLUSIONS:
Ultra-low-dose NTX coadministration blocks the acute rewarding effects
of analgesic doses of oxycodone or morphine as well as the anhedonia of
withdrawal from chronic administration.

PMID: 16010543 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Rhino, you left a lot of people out of your hall of fame:

John Belushi--heroin and coke--1981, I think.

Nirvana's Curt Cobain, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Jimmi Hendrix, Inxs lead dude, Robert Palmer, Jim Morrison, and how many others have I forgotten?

No, he had me on Adderall and Oxy at the same time. I hate speed. I looked it up in my PDR book and found that Adderall is just an Amphetamine. Made me sweat, impotant, I could not sleep, double constapation. Now I am on 5mg Focalin, it is great.

Not to get off topic, but as a response-
RE: the comment that the Nazis invented Methadone=

Methadone is a synthetic m-opioid receptor agonist that was developed more than 50 years ago. The circumstances surrounding its development have been, and perhaps still are, associated with an interesting myth. Methadone was said to have been developed in response to an order by Hitler to develop an alternative to morphine, which was in short supply at the end of World War II. The trade name Dolophine was said to have been derived from Hitler’s first name Adolph (Payte, 1991). The truth is that methadone was discovered at I.G. Farbendustrie at Hoechst-am-Main in Germany in the course of work on spasmolytic compounds during World War II. Because it lacked any resemblance to known compounds, its narcotic analgesic properties were not expected. Despite the morphine shortage, methadone was not used as an analgesic until the post-war period. It is believed that Germany’s failure to realize methadone’s value as an analgesic was because initial doses were too high and intolerable opioid side effects resulted (Chen, 1948). Concerning nomenclature, the more likely etymology is that Dolophine was derived from dolor for pain and fin for end (Payte, 1991)
I checked several sources, this appears correct. J

ARE THESE PERCOCETS