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#186775 - 06/15/05 12:55 PM Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
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GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6308
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
This is the answer given by the DEA (drug Ebforcement Agency) and the USDOJ...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/illegal_internet.html

 Quote:
Is It Illegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Internet?

For a prescription to be valid under federal and state law, there must be a bona fide doctor patient relationship, which is defined by most state laws to require a physical examination. “Completing a questionnaire that is then reviewed by a doctor hired by the internet pharmacy could not be considered the basis for a doctor/patient relationship.” Vol. 66 Federal Register 82, PP 21181-21184 (April 27, 2001)

Moreover, if the prescription drug is a controlled substance and the drug is being imported into the U.S. from a foreign country and being shipped to anyone other than a DEA-registered importer, such transaction is a felony in violation of Sections 957 and 960 of Title 21, United States Code.



http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/957.htm
 Quote:
CITE-

21 USC Sec. 957 01/22/02

-EXPCITE-

TITLE 21 - FOOD AND DRUGS
CHAPTER 13 - drug ABUSE PREVENTION AND CONTROL
SUBCHAPTER II - IMPORT AND EXPORT

-HEAD-

Sec. 957. Persons required to register

-STATUTE-

(a) Coverage
No person may -

(1) import into the customs territory of the United States from any place outside thereof (but within the United States), or import into the United States from any place outside thereof, any controlled substance or list I chemical, or

(2) export from the United States any controlled substance or list I chemical, unless there is in effect with respect to such person a registration issued by the Attorney General under section 958 of this title, or unless such person is exempt from registration under subsection (b) of this section.

(b) Exemptions

(1) The following persons shall not be required to register under the provisions of this section and may lawfully possess a controlled substance or list I chemical:

(A) An agent or an employee of any importer or exporter registered under section 958 of this title if such agent or employee is acting in the usual course of his business or employment.

(B) A common or contract carrier or warehouseman, or an employee thereof, whose possession of any controlled substance or list I chemical is in the usual course of his business or employment.

(C) An ultimate user who possesses such substance for a purpose specified in section 802(25) (FOOTNOTE 1) of this title and in conformity with an exemption granted under section 956(a) of this title.

(FOOTNOTE 1) See References in Text note below.

(2) The Attorney General may, by regulation, waive the requirement for registration of certain importers and exporters if he finds it consistent with the public health and safety; and may authorize any such importer or exporter to possess controlled substances or list I chemicals for purposes of importation and exportation.

-SOURCE-

(Pub. L. 91-513, title III, Sec. 1007, Oct. 27, 1970, 84 Stat.1288; Pub. L. 98-473, title II, Sec. 523, Oct. 12, 1984, 98 Stat. 2076; Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 3(e), Dec. 17, 1993, 107 Stat. 2337.)

-REFTEXT-

REFERENCES IN TEXT

Section 802(25) of this title, referred to in subsec. (b)(1)(C), was redesignated section 802(26) of this title by Pub. L. 98-473, title II, Sec. 507(a), Oct. 12, 1984, 98 Stat. 2071, and was further redesignated section 802(27) of this title by Pub. L. 99-570, title I, Sec. 1003(b)(2), Oct. 27, 1986, 100 Stat. 3207-6.

-MISC2-

AMENDMENTS

1993 - Subsec. (a)(1). Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 3(e)(1)(A), inserted ''or list I chemical'' after ''controlled substance''.

Subsec. (a)(2). Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 3(e)(1)(B), substituted ''or list I chemical,'' for ''in schedule I, II, III, IV, or V,''.

Subsec. (b)(1). Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 3(e)(2)(A), inserted ''or list I chemical'' after ''controlled substance'' in introductory provisions and subpar. (B).

Subsec. (b)(2). Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 3(e)(2)(B), inserted ''or list I chemicals'' after ''controlled substances''.

1984 - Subsec. (a)(2). Pub. L. 98-473 inserted reference to schedule V.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1993 AMENDMENT

Amendment by Pub. L. 103-200 effective on date that is 120 days after Dec. 17, 1993, see section 11 of Pub. L. 103-200, set out as a note under section 802 of this title.

PROVISIONAL REGISTRATION

Section 1104 of Pub. L. 91-513, as amended by Pub. L. 99-514, Sec. 2, Oct. 22, 1986, 100 Stat. 2095, provided that:

''(a)(1) Any person -

''(A) who is engaged in importing or exporting any controlled substance on the day before the effective date of section 1007 (May 1, 1971),

''(B) who notifies the Attorney General that he is so engaged, and

''(C) who is registered on such day under section 510 of the Federal Food, drug, and Cosmetic Act (section 360 of this title) or under section 4722 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (formerly I.R.C. 1954, section 4722 of title 26), shall, with respect to each establishment for which such registration is in effect under any such section, be deemed to have a provisional registration under section 1008 (section 958 of this title) for the import or export (as the case may be) of controlled substances.

''(2) During the period his provisional registration is in effect under this section, the registration number assigned such person under such section 510 or under such section 4722 (as the case may be) shall be his registration number for purposes of part A of this title (this subchapter).

''(b) The provisions of section 304 (section 824 of this title), relating to suspension and revocation of registration, shall apply to a provisional registration under this section.

''(c) Unless sooner suspended or revoked under subsection (b), a provisional registration of a person under subsection (a)(1) of this section shall be in effect until -

''(1) the date on which such person has registered with the Attorney General under section 1008 (section 958 of this title) or has had his registration denied under such section, or

''(2) such date as may be prescribed by the Attorney General for registration of importers or exporters, as the case may be, whichever occurs first.''


http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/960.htm
 Quote:
CITE-

21 USC Sec. 960 01/22/02

-EXPCITE-

TITLE 21 - FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER 13 - drug ABUSE PREVENTION AND CONTROL

SUBCHAPTER II - IMPORT AND EXPORT

-HEAD-

Sec. 960. Prohibited acts A

-STATUTE-

(a) Unlawful acts
Any person who -

(1) contrary to section 952, 953, or 957 of this title, knowingly or intentionally imports or exports a controlled substance,

(2) contrary to section 955 of this title, knowingly or intentionally brings or possesses on board a vessel, aircraft, or vehicle a controlled substance, or

(3) contrary to section 959 of this title, manufactures, possesses with intent to distribute, or distributes a controlled substance, shall be punished as provided in subsection (b) of this section.

(b) Penalties

(1) In the case of a violation of subsection (a) of this section involving -

(A) 1 kilogram or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of heroin;

(B) 5 kilograms or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of -

(i) coca leaves, except coca leaves and extracts of coca leaves from which cocaine, ecgonine, and derivatives of ecgonine or their salts have been removed;

(ii) cocaine, its salts, optical and geometric isomers, and salts or isomers;

(iii) ecgonine, its derivatives, their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers; or

(iv) any compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of any of the substances referred to in clauses (i) through (iii);

(C) 50 grams or more of a mixture or substance described in subparagraph (B) which contains cocaine base;

(D) 100 grams or more of phencyclidine (PCP) or 1 kilogram or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of phencyclidine (PCP);

(E) 10 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD);

(F) 400 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of N-phenyl-N- ( 1- ( 2-phenylethyl )-4-piperidinyl ) propanamide or 100 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of any analogue of N-pheny propanamide;

(G) 1000 kilograms or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of marihuana; or

(H) 50 grams or more of methamphetamine, its salts, isomers, and salts of its isomers or 500 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine, its salts, isomers, or salts of its isomers. (FOOTNOTE 1)

(FOOTNOTE 1) So in original. The period probably should be a semicolon.

the person committing such violation shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years and not more than life and if death or serious bodily injury results from the use of such substance shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 20 years and not more than life, a fine not to exceed the greater of that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $4,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $10,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. If any person commits such a violation after a prior conviction for a felony drug offense has become final, such person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 20 years and not more than life imprisonment and if death or serious bodily injury results from the use of such substance shall be sentenced to life imprisonment, a fine not to exceed the greater of twice that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $8,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $20,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. Any sentence under this paragraph shall, in the absence of such a prior conviction, impose a term of supervised release of at least 5 years in addition to such term of imprisonment and shall, if there was such a prior conviction, impose a term of supervised release of at least 10 years in addition to such term of imprisonment. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not place on probation or suspend the sentence of any person sentenced under this paragraph. No person sentenced under this paragraph shall be eligible for parole during the term of imprisonment imposed therein.

(2) In the case of a violation of subsection (a) of this section involving -

(A) 100 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of heroin;

(B) 500 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of -

(i) coca leaves, except coca leaves and extracts of coca leaves from which cocaine, ecgonine, and derivatives of ecgonine or their salts have been removed;

(ii) cocaine, its salts, optical and geometric isomers, and salts or isomers;

(iii) ecgonine, its derivatives, their salts, isomers, and salts of isomers; or

(iv) any compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of any of the substances referred to in clauses (i) through (iii);

(C) 5 grams or more of a mixture or substance described in subparagraph (B) which contains cocaine base;

(D) 10 grams or more of phencyclidine (PCP) or 100 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of phencyclidine (PCP);

(E) 1 gram or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD);

(F) 40 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of N-phenyl-N- ( 1- ( 2-phenylethyl ) -4-piperidinyl ) propanamide or 10 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of any analogue of N-pheny ropanamide;

(G) 100 kilograms or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of marihuana; or (H) 5 grams or more of methamphetamine, its salts, isomers, and salts of its isomers or 50 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of methamphetamine, its salts, isomers, or salts of its isomers. (FOOTNOTE 2)

(FOOTNOTE 2) So in original. The period probably should be a semicolon.

the person committing such violation shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 5 years and not more than 40 years and if death or serious bodily injury results from the use of such substance shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than twenty years and not more than life, a fine not to exceed the greater of that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $2,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $5,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. If any person commits such a violation after a prior conviction for a felony drug offense has become final, such person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than 10 years and not more than life imprisonment and if death or serious bodily injury results from the use of such substance shall be sentenced to life imprisonment, a fine not to exceed the greater of twice that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $4,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $10,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. Any sentence imposed under this paragraph shall, in the absence of such a prior conviction, include a term of supervised release of at least 4 years in addition to such term of imprisonment and shall, if there was such a prior conviction, include a term of supervised release of at least 8 years in addition to such term of imprisonment. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not place on probation or suspend the sentence of any person sentenced under this paragraph. No person sentenced under this paragraph shall be eligible for parole during the term of imprisonment imposed therein.

(3) In the case of a violation under subsection (a) of this section involving a controlled substance in schedule I or II, gamma hydroxybutyric acid (including when scheduled as an approved drug product for purposes of section 3(a)(1)(B) of the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape drug Prohibition Act of 2000), or flunitrazepam, the person committing such violation shall, except as provided in paragraphs (1), (2), and (4), be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not more than 20 years and if death or serious bodily injury results from the use of such substance shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not less than twenty years and not more than life, a fine not to exceed the greater of that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $1,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $5,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. If any person commits such a violation after a prior conviction for a felony drug offense has become final, such person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not more than 30 years and if death or serious bodily injury results from the use of such substance shall be sentenced to life imprisonment, a fine not to exceed the greater of twice that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $2,000,000 if the defendant is an individual or $10,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. Any sentence imposing a term of imprisonment under this paragraph shall, in the absence of such a prior conviction, impose a term of supervised release of at least 3 years in addition to such term of imprisonment and shall, if there was such a prior conviction, impose a term of supervised release of at least 6 years in addition to such term of imprisonment. Notwithstanding the prior sentence, and notwithstanding any other provision of law, the court shall not place on probation or suspend the sentence of any person sentenced under the provisions of this paragraph which provide for a mandatory term of imprisonment if death or serious bodily injury results, nor shall a person so sentenced be eligible for parole during the term of such a sentence.

(4) In the case of a violation under subsection (a) of this section with respect to less than 50 kilograms of marihuana, except in the case of 100 or more marihuana plants regardless of weight, less than 10 kilograms of hashish, less than one kilogram of hashish oil, or any quantity of a controlled substance in schedule III, IV, or V, (FOOTNOTE 3) (except a violation involving flunitrazepam and except a violation involving gamma hydroxybutyric acid) the person committing such violation shall be imprisoned not more than five years, or be fined not to exceed the greater of that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $250,000 if the defendant is an individual or $1,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual, or both. If a sentence under this paragraph provides for imprisonment, the sentence shall, in addition to such term of imprisonment, include (A) a term of supervised release of not less than two years if such controlled substance is in schedule I, II, III, or (B) a term of supervised release of not less than one year if such controlled substance is in schedule IV.

(FOOTNOTE 3) So in original.

(c) Repealed. Pub. L. 98-473, title II, Sec. 225, formerly Sec. 225(a), Oct. 12, 1984, 98 Stat. 2030, as amended by Pub. L. 99-570, title I, Sec. 1005(c), Oct. 27, 1986, 100 Stat. 3207-6

(d) Penalty for importation or exportation A person who knowingly or intentionally -

(1) imports or exports a listed chemical with intent to manufacture a controlled substance in violation of this subchapter or subchapter I of this chapter;

(2) exports a listed chemical in violation of the laws of the country to which the chemical is exported or serves as a broker or trader for an international transaction involving a listed chemical, if the transaction is in violation of the laws of the country to which the chemical is exported;

(3) imports or exports a listed chemical knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that the chemical will be used to manufacture a controlled substance in violation of this subchapter or subchapter I of this chapter;

(4) exports a listed chemical, or serves as a broker or trader for an international transaction involving a listed chemical, knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that the chemical will be used to manufacture a controlled substance in violation of the laws of the country to which the chemical is exported;

(5) imports or exports a listed chemical, with the intent to evade the reporting or recordkeeping requirements of section 971 of this title applicable to such importation or exportation by falsely representing to the Attorney General that the importation or exportation qualifies for a waiver of the 15-day notification requirement granted pursuant to section 971(e)(2) or (3) of this title by misrepresenting the actual country of final destination of the listed chemical or the actual listed chemical being imported or exported;

(6) imports or exports a listed chemical in violation of section 957 or 971 of this title; or

(7) manufactures, possesses with intent to distribute, or distributes a listed chemical in violation of section 959 of this title. (FOOTNOTE 4)

(FOOTNOTE 4) So in original. The period probably should be a comma.

shall be fined in accordance with title 18, imprisoned not more than 20 years in the case of a violation of paragraph (1) or (3) involving a list I chemical or not more than 10 years in the case of a violation of this subsection other than a violation of paragraph (1) or (3) involving a list I chemical, or both.

-SOURCE-

(Pub. L. 91-513, title III, Sec. 1010, Oct. 27, 1970, 84 Stat. 1290; Pub. L. 98-473, title II, Sec. 225, formerly Sec. 225(a), 504, Oct. 12, 1984, 98 Stat. 2030, 2070; Pub. L. 99-570, title I, Sec. 1004(a), 1005(c), 1302, 1866(e), Oct. 27, 1986, 100 Stat. 3207-6, 3207-15, 3207-55; Pub. L. 100-690, title VI, Sec. 6053(c), 6475, Nov. 18, 1988, 102 Stat. 4315, 4380; Pub. L. 101-647, title XII, Sec. 1204, title XXXV, Sec. 3599J, Nov. 29, 1990, 104 Stat. 4830, 4932; Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 4(b), 5(b), Dec. 17, 1993, 107 Stat. 2338, 2339; Pub. L. 103-322, title IX, Sec. 90105(a), title XXXIII, Sec. 330024(d)(2), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 1987, 2151; Pub. L. 104-237, title I, Sec. 102(c), title III, Sec. 302(b), Oct. 3, 1996, 110 Stat. 3100, 3105; Pub. L. 104-305, Sec. 2(b)(2)(B), (C), Oct. 13, 1996, 110 Stat. 3807; Pub. L. 105-277, div. E, Sec. 2(b), Oct. 21, 1998, 112 Stat. 2681-759; Pub. L. 106-172, Sec. 3(b)(2), Feb. 18, 2000, 114 Stat. 9.)

-REFTEXT-

REFERENCES IN TEXT

Schedules I, II, III, IV, and V, referred to in subsec. (b), are set out in section 812(c) of this title.

Section 3(a)(1)(B) of the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape Prohibition Act of 2000, referred to in subsec. (b)(3), is section 3(a)(1)(B) of Pub. L. 106-172, which is set out in a note under section 812 of this title.

-MISC2-

AMENDMENTS

2000 - Subsec. (b)(3). Pub. L. 106-172, Sec. 3(b)(2)(A), inserted ''gamma hydroxybutyric acid (including when scheduled as an approved drug product for purposes of section 3(a)(1)(B) of the Hillory J. Farias and Samantha Reid Date-Rape drug Prohibition Act of 2000),'' after ''schedule I or II,'' in first sentence.

Subsec. (b)(4). Pub. L. 106-172, Sec. 3(b)(2)(B), substituted ''flunitrazepam and except a violation involving gamma hydroxybutyric acid)'' for ''flunitrazepam)''.

1998 - Subsec. (b)(1)(H). Pub. L. 105-277, Sec. 2(b)(1), substituted ''50 grams'' and ''500 grams'' for ''100 grams'' and ''1 kilogram'', respectively.

Subsec. (b)(2)(H). Pub. L. 105-277, Sec. 2(b)(2), substituted ''5 grams'' and ''50 grams'' for ''10 grams'' and ''100 grams'', respectively.

1996 - Subsec. (b)(3). Pub. L. 104-305, Sec. 2(b)(2)(B), inserted ''or flunitrazepam,'' after ''schedule I or II,''.

Subsec. (b)(4). Pub. L. 104-305, Sec. 2(b)(2)(C), inserted ''(except a violation involving flunitrazepam)'' after ''schedule III, IV, or V,''.

Subsec. (d). Pub. L. 104-237, Sec. 302(b), in closing provisions, substituted ''not more than 20 years in the case of a violation of paragraph (1) or (3) involving a list I chemical or not more than 10 years in the case of a violation of this subsection other than a violation of paragraph (1) or (3) involving a list I chemical,'' for ''not more than 10 years,''.

Subsec. (d)(7). Pub. L. 104-237, Sec. 102(c), added par. (7).

1994 - Subsec. (b)(1), (2). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 90105(a), in sentence in concluding provisions beginning ''If any person commits'', substituted ''a prior conviction for a felony drug offense has become final'' for ''one or more prior convictions for an offense punishable under this subsection, or for a felony under any other provision of this subchapter or subchapter I of this chapter or other law of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to narcotic drugs, marihuana, or depressant or stimulant substances, have become final''.

Subsec. (b)(3). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 90105(a), in sentence beginning ''If any person commits'', substituted ''a prior conviction for a felony drug offense has become final'' for ''one or more prior convictions for an offense punishable under this subsection, or for a felony under any other provision of this subchapter or subchapter I of this chapter or other law of a State, the United States or a foreign country relating to narcotic drugs, marihuana, or depressant or stimulant substances, have become final''.

Subsec. (d)(5), (6). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 330024(d)(2), amended directory language of Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 5(b)(3). See 1993 Amendment note below.

1993 - Subsec. (d). Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 5(b), as amended by Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 330024(d)(2), added pars. (5) and (6).

Pub. L. 103-200, Sec. 4(b), amended subsec. (d) generally. Prior to amendment, subsec. (d) read as follows: ''Any person who knowingly or intentionally -

''(1) imports or exports a listed chemical with intent to manufacture a controlled substance in violation of this subchapter or, in the case of an exportation, in violation of the law of the country to which the chemical is exported; or

''(2) imports or exports a listed chemical knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that the listed chemical will be used to manufacture a controlled substance in violation of this subchapter or, in the case of an exportation, in violation of the law of the country to which the chemical is exported; shall be fined in accordance with title 18, or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.''

1990 - Subsec. (b)(1)(H). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 1204(a), added subpar. (H).

Subsec. (b)(2). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 3599J, substituted ''supervised'' for ''suspervised'' in two places in concluding provisions.

Subsec. (b)(2)(H). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 1204(b), added subpar.(H).

1988 - Subsec. (a)(3). Pub. L. 100-690, Sec. 6475, substituted ''manufactures, possesses with intent to distribute, or distributes a controlled substance'' for ''manufactures or distributes a controlled substance''.

Subsec. (d). Pub. L. 100-690, Sec. 6053(c), added subsec. (d).

1986 - Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1005(c), amended Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 225. See 1984 Amendment note below.

Subsec. (b)(1), (2). Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1302(a)(2), added pars. (1) and (2) and struck out former pars. (1) and (2) which read as follows:

''(1) In the case of a violation under subsection (a) of this section involving -

''(A) 100 grams or more of a mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of a narcotic drug in schedule I or II other than a narcotic drug consisting of -

''(i) coca leaves;

''(ii) a compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, or preparation of coca leaves; or

''(iii) a substance chemically identical thereto;

''(B) a kilogram or more of any other narcotic drug in schedule I or II;

''(C) 500 grams or more of phencyclidine (PCP);

''(D) 5 grams or more of lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD); the person committing such violation shall be imprisoned for not more than twenty years, or fined not more than $250,000, or both.

''(2) In the case of a violation under subsection (a) of this section with respect to a controlled substance in schedule I or II, the person committing such violation shall, except as provided in paragraphs (1) and (3), be imprisoned not more than fifteen years, or fined not more than $125,000, or both. If a sentence under this paragraph provides for imprisonment, the sentence shall include a special parole term of not less than three years in addition to such term of imprisonment.''

Subsec. (b)(3). Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1302(a)(2), added par. (3).Former par. (3) redesignated (4).

Subsec. (b)(4). Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1302(a)(1), (3), (b)(2), (3), redesignated former par. (3) as (4), inserted ''except in the case of 100 or more marihuana plants regardless of weight,'' and substituted ''fined not to exceed the greater of that authorized in accordance with the provisions of title 18 or $250,000 if the defendant is an individual or $1,000,000 if the defendant is other than an individual'' for ''fined not more than $50,000''.

Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1302(b)(1), 1866(e), made identical amendment striking out '', except as provided in paragraph (4)'' after ''such violation shall''.

Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1004(a), substituted ''term of supervised release'' for ''special parole term'' in two places.

Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1004(a), substituted ''term of supervised release'' for ''special parole term'' wherever appearing, effective Nov. 1, 1987, the effective date of the repeal of subsec. (c) by Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 225. See 1984 Amendment note below.

1984 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 225(a), which directed amendment of this subsection effective Nov. 1, 1987 (see section 235(a)(1) of Pub. L. 98-473 set out as an Effective Date note under section 3551 of Title 18, Crimes and Criminal Procedure) was omitted in the general amendment of section 225 of Pub. L. 98-473 by Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1005(c).

Subsec. (b)(1). Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 504(1), added par. (1). Former par. (1) redesignated (2).

Subsec. (b)(2). Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 504(1), (2), redesignated former par. (1) as (2), inserted provisions excepting pars. (1) and (3), and substituted reference to controlled substance for reference to narcotic drug, and ''$125,000'' for ''$25,000''. Former par. (2) redesignated (3).

Subsec. (b)(3). Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 504(1), (3), redesignated former par. (2) as (3) and substituted ''less than 50 kilograms of marihuana, less than 10 kilograms of hashish, less than one kilogram of hashish oil, or any quantity of a controlled substance in schedule III, IV, or V, the person committing such violation shall, except as provided in paragraph (4)'' for ''a controlled substance other than a narcotic drug in schedule I or II, the person committing such violation shall'', and ''$50,000'' for ''$15,000''.

Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 98-473, Sec. 225, as amended by Pub. L. 99-570, Sec. 1005(c), struck out subsec. (c) which related to special parole terms imposed under this section or section 962 of this title. Notwithstanding directory language that the amendment be made to ''Section 1515 of the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 960)'', the amendment was executed to this section as the probable intent of Congress.
EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1994 AMENDMENT

Amendment by section 330024(d)(2) of Pub. L. 103-322 effective 120 days after Dec. 17, 1993, see section 330024(f) of Pub. L. 103-322, set out as a note under section 802 of this title.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1993 AMENDMENT

Amendment by Pub. L. 103-200 effective on date that is 120 days after Dec. 17, 1993, see section 11 of Pub. L. 103-200, set out as a note under section 802 of this title.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1988 AMENDMENT

Amendment by section 6053(c) of Pub. L. 100-690 effective 120 days after Nov. 18, 1988, see section 6061 of Pub. L. 100-690, set out as a note under section 802 of this title.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1986 AMENDMENT

Amendment by section 1004(a) of Pub. L. 99-570 effective on date of taking effect of section 3583 of Title 18, Crimes and Criminal Procedure (Nov. 1, 1987), see section 1004(b) of Pub. L. 99-570 set out as a note under section 841 of this title.

EFFECTIVE DATE OF 1984 AMENDMENT

Amendment by section 225 of Pub. L. 98-473 effective Nov. 1, 1987, and applicable only to offenses committed after the taking effect of such amendment, see section 235(a)(1) of Pub. L. 98-473, set out as an Effective Date note under section 3551 of Title 18, Crimes and Criminal Procedure.

-SECREF-

SECTION REFERRED TO IN OTHER SECTIONS

This section is referred to in sections 848, 962, 1710 of this title; title 5 section 3113; title 18 sections 36, 3553, 3559, 5032; title 28 section 994; title 46 App. section 1903.



Edited by Administrator (05/29/08 09:46 AM)
Edit Reason: added section 957 and 960...
_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#186776 - 06/15/05 01:23 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
new2 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 89
Loc: NW
Here we go again.. has this subject not been brought up before? WIll some of the old timers please adress this?


Admin comments: a subject that has not been discussed before... is most likely a subject nobody is interested in...


Edited by Administrator (03/05/09 01:07 PM)

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#186777 - 06/15/05 01:43 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
JethroMole Offline
Board Addict

Registered: 01/19/05
Posts: 328
It depends. "Telemedicine" is booming. My girlfriend is prescribed dexedrine for ADHD. Her doctor encourages her to use her insurance company - via the Internet - to buy her medication in a 3 month supply.

He writes her the prescription and she goes online, fills out some stuff, and mails off the script. A few weeks later, she gets 180 (!) Smith-Kline dextro-amphetamine sulfate spansule capsules delivered via DHL and her insurance company pays for it.

NROPs and ROPs seem to occupy a gray area of legality. IMHO, there's yet no definitive answer to your question.

If you use the Internet to order controlled substances from another country, then yeah, that's probably pretty cut and dried - assuming of course that Customs finds it. But even then, you'll likely only get a "love letter" from Customs telling you that's a no-no.

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#186778 - 06/16/05 08:32 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
storyteller Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 416
Loc: Southwestern area
This is a frequently asked questions section on the dea's website, it answers many questions about internet puchasing..




http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/faq/internetpurch.htm

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#186779 - 06/16/05 10:07 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
storyteller Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 416
Loc: Southwestern area
If a site goes down, what happens to the names of the the people who ordered from that site?

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#186780 - 06/16/05 10:36 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
lincoona Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 1327
Quote:

For a prescription to be valid under federal and state law, there must be a bona fide doctor patient relationship,




This is an issue of interpretation of the exact meaning and definition of "doctor-patient relationship" that has yet to be tested in a court of law to my knowledge.

Quote:

which is defined by most state laws to require a physical examination




I don't know where to find out what "most" states are referred to and the exact statutes, but that certainly is a vague statement. If taken to task, the DEA will have to prove that their interprtation of the relationship is in fact correct.

Besides, it does not state that the prescribing doctor has to conduct the physical examination. It's full of holes, and might be tested someday, but my opinion is that telemedicine is currently very popular, and the Big Pharma companies have highly paid lobbyists that will ensure their clients are able to sell MORE pills, not less, and will fight any legal battle with deep pockets. The ban on importing prescription drugs is because of their efforts.

If the DEA were to prosecute anybody, my guess would be the NROP owners and doctors, they have stated clearly on their site that they are not interested in prosecuting chronic pain patients. If you're importing or ordering mass quantities you might raise an eyebrow, otherwise don't worry.

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#186781 - 06/16/05 01:16 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
cascadia Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/24/04
Posts: 53
Taken by the DEA or sold to other sites.
Never. Never give your real phone number or SSI# when ordering.



Quote:

If a site goes down, what happens to the names of the the people who ordered from that site?



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#186782 - 06/16/05 04:56 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
InTheRuse Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 05/26/05
Posts: 54
However, you will be committing fraud if you give a fake ss#/ph #. To give fake information is bad advice. And yet I'm sure that you expect to receive the true and exact, not "fake", meds you ordered with the exact count as well. What makes you think it's legal to do that?

Mary
_________________________
"Sloppy, raggedy-assed old life, I love it. I don't ever want to die!" ~Dennis Trudell

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#186783 - 06/16/05 06:13 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
ric1970 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/22/05
Posts: 192
what nrop's ask for ss#??? i thought they just asked for a phone #

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#186784 - 06/16/05 08:33 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
willys Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 224
i mean if your concerned about it....you shouldnt order i guess...i mean if you have a legit medical need than i really dont understand why you would be worried, but i get the feeling that many here may be recreational users..just my opinion. but when i see questions like this, it kinda seems that way..i am in no way suggesting that you are.

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#186785 - 06/16/05 08:34 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
faerie Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/28/05
Posts: 3642
nds (nationsdrugsupply) asks for last 4 digits of ss# for "prove it" identity stuff...makes sure you are an adult and a real person

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#186786 - 06/16/05 08:48 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
storyteller Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 416
Loc: Southwestern area
As for my opinion, I am not a recreational user, however I don't have health insurance, and my doctor recently retired, so I know what I need, so I ordered overseas from a place called nexuspharmacy which imports from india, anyway I didn't know that it was such a big deal to order overseas, and alot of places go under, and it is on the hot list topic for the dea, I don't want to get arrested or have to deal with any of that, I just want my meds, that's why I was asking??

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#186787 - 06/17/05 08:20 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
willys Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 224
ya...i dont know about orverseas ordering..is it cheaper or something?..just not worth the risk for me...but people do it so.....i cant imagine its that much cheaper than the states

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#186788 - 06/17/05 10:23 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
storyteller Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 416
Loc: Southwestern area
did some comparisons-it can be anywhere from 100 and up...if you want to recommend a us place where I don't have to fax them my records, because my doctor retired then by all means let me know, rxduncan was about 120.00 more than nexus pharmacy..but I will probably try them in the future..

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#186789 - 06/17/05 11:35 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
OldandWorn Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 8627
Loc: LoFi Pool Hall, 12th & Vine
I'm not a big IOPer, I buy American but where is the DEA hotlist? Is it something online?
_________________________
It's just a flesh wound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

NY Yankees are champs again. How do I politely say that Chris Matthews sucks?

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#186790 - 06/17/05 03:04 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
storyteller Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 06/10/05
Posts: 416
Loc: Southwestern area
Yes, as i was browsing the dea's website they have alot to say about this topic, under hot topics on the site, they have a new way to turn in websites that may not be legit, I guess my point is they are watching....

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#186791 - 09/05/05 04:58 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
aliceellen1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 506
Loc: Florida but always a New Yorke...
This has really become a serious matter, whether we like it or not. I don't think that there is room for different interpretation, although I am going to try and find if any case law exists on it. In the meantime there is an excellent site that I think was already mentioned but check this out:

Message from the DEA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONSUMER ALERT!
Buying controlled substances prescription drugs on-line may be illegal.

Web sites offering to sell prescription controlled substances directly to consumers "without a prescription" or "without requiring a doctor visit" are operating outside the requirements of the federal Controlled Substances Act.

It is illegal to purchase controlled substances, which include drugs such as narcotic pain relievers (e.g., OxyContin®, Vicodin®), sedatives (e.g., Valium®, Xanax®, Ambien®), stimulants or "diet drugs" (e.g., phentermine, phendimetrazine, Adderall®, Ritalin®), and anabolic steroids (e.g., Winstrol®, Equipoise®), unless you or your pharmacy has received a valid prescription from your doctor. A valid prescription requires a legitimate doctor-patient relationship, which in turn requires a valid medical examination, diagnosis and conclusion that the drugs prescribed are for a legitimate medical purpose. Responsible professional medical organizations, such as the American Medical Association and state boards of medicine and pharmacy, have all condemned the practice of "cyber doctors" issuing prescriptions on the basis of online questionnaires and consider it to be an unprofessional and unacceptable standard of care. The DEA and Food and drug Administration (FDA) have also concluded that obtaining prescription drugs, including controlled substances, by simply filling out a questionnaire or placing an order with a website offering such products for sale does not meet the legal requirements of a valid prescription. It is illegal for a consumer to import a controlled substance from a foreign country – and many sources of prescription drugs sold via the Internet are foreign even when not advertised as such.

Agencies such as the DEA, the FDA, and many others at the state, federal and international levels, are working to eliminate these illegal web-based pharmacy operations. However, consumers must be aware that obtaining controlled substances in violation of the law places them at risk legally, and that drugs shipped from illegally operating sites which are found in domestic and international mail/transport facilities are subject to seizure.

For more information, see the Federal Register Notice - "Guidance - Dispensing and Purchasing Controlled Substances Over the Internet"

This site is really good for people to read because it gives a lot more information.
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/consumer_alert.htm

As much as I would like to be in denial about this it is illegal period. Florida also has a similar law. I hope I can find some caselaw or precedent on this and if I do I will post it.

Peace,
Alice
_________________________
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, The answer is blowin' in the wind. Bob Dylan

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#186792 - 09/05/05 06:32 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
leelee27 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 359
Loc: B.F.E.
I take this to mean that NROPs can't be considered grey....the way I read it seemed to state that the non records places are illegal..and this is why I say that..I will quote from your post..

Quote:

A valid prescription requires a legitimate doctor-patient relationship, which in turn requires a valid medical examination, diagnosis and conclusion that the drugs prescribed are for a legitimate medical purpose.




It says "valid medical evaluation,diagnosis and conclusion" which made me think that maybe the places that ask for records are in the clear for now b/c they have documents saying that you have a legitament problem...the nrop's on the other hand DO NOT make you prove that you have even had a physical within the past year.The term 'medical evaluation' to me means a face to face with a doc.....not meaning the doc that wrote the script but just a face to face and proof of one...so that leads me to believe that ROP's for now are meeting guidelines.

So I guess by reading this...I see that NROP's don't have the proper documentation to prescibe a medicine..but ROP's have atleast seen the diagnosis and have written based on another doctors examination?.....please correct me if I have missed anything..

And THANKS for posting this....I guess the 'legitament relationship' concerning ROP's is left up to the state to determine...right?/

Have a good one
Kammi
_________________________
"Is it as cold in the country as it is in the winter?"

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#186793 - 09/05/05 06:52 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
aliceellen1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 506
Loc: Florida but always a New Yorke...
No, at least not in my opinion. From what I've been reading there needs to be face to face contact with the doctor to establish a legitimate doctor patient relationship.

Peace,
Alice
_________________________
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, The answer is blowin' in the wind. Bob Dylan

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#186794 - 09/05/05 06:56 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
aliceellen1 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 06/20/05
Posts: 506
Loc: Florida but always a New Yorke...
This is posted on that website on the questions and answers page:

Can an individual order drugs using the Internet without seeing a doctor?

Federal law requires that "A prescription for a controlled substance to be effective must be issued for a legitimate medical purpose by an individual practitioner acting in the usual course of his professional practice" (21 CFR 1306.04(a)). Every state separately imposes the same requirement under its laws. Under Federal and state law, for a doctor to be acting in the usual course of professional practice, there must be a bona fide doctor/ patient relationship.

For purposes of state law, many state authorities, with the endorsement of medical societies, consider the existence of the following four elements as an indication that a legitimate doctor/patient relationship has been established:

A patient has a medical complaint;
A medical history has been taken;
A physical examination has been performed; and
Some logical connection exists between the medical complaint, the medical history, the physical examination and the drug prescribed.
A patient completing a questionnaire that is then reviewed by a physician hired by or working on behalf of an Internet pharmacy does not establish a doctor/patient relationship. A consumer can more easily provide false information in a questionnaire than in a face-to-face meeting with the physician. It is illegal to receive a prescription for a controlled substance without the establishment of a legitimate doctor/patient relationship, and it is unlikely for such a relationship to be formed through Internet correspondence alone. However, this is not intended to limit the ability of practitioners to engage in telemedicine. For purposes of this guidance document, telemedicine refers to the provision of health care using telecommunication networks to transmit and receive information including voice communications, images and patient records.

Some Internet sites recommend to the patient that they not take a new drug before they have a complete physical performed by a doctor. These sites then ask the patient to waive the requirement for a physical and to agree to have a physical before taking the drug they purchase via the Internet. An after the fact physical does not take the place of establishing a doctor/patient relationship. The physical exam should take place before the prescription is written. These types of activities by Internet pharmacies can subject the operators of the Internet site and any pharmacies or doctors who participate in the activity to criminal, civil, or administrative actions. For DEA registrants, administrative action may include the loss of their DEA registration. Additionally, providing false material information to obtain controlled substances could be considered obtaining a controlled substance by fraud and deceit, which is subject to Federal and State penalties.

Peace,
Alice
_________________________
The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind, The answer is blowin' in the wind. Bob Dylan

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#186795 - 09/05/05 07:56 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Trampy Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 2111
Loc: Southwest U.S.
Quote:

... providing false material information to obtain controlled substances could be considered obtaining a controlled substance by fraud and deceit, which is subject to Federal and State penalties.




"Federal and State penalties"?

Yes, that's illegal in every state, but where is there any federal law on the fraud or deceit? Is it hidden away in some federal appeals court decision on the definition of federal misdemeanor illegal possession? An enquiring mind would like to know. Or maybe they just made that up.

Let me rephrase: exactly where in the CFR or USC does it say anything about it being illegal to use fraud or deceit to obtain controlled substances? A judge could say that it constitutes "illegal simple possession" but where does the law say that? With no priors and unless it's a drug in the Hilary Farias Act, simple possession is just a misdemeanor under federal law.


Edited by Trampy (09/06/05 05:21 PM)

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#186796 - 09/06/05 09:23 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
geminitwin Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 2
But What if youu are required to send valid recent medical records from providers who have seen you recently? The online physician or PA providing the consult can refill meds based on this information plus the phone consultation plus any other information or online questionnaire provided. When it is impossible for the customer to see a physician for any reason, then this method should suffice unless the DEA is saying for doctors not to trust information from other doctors or providers. Where would any healthcare system be if the above is true? The reality is that the current US Healthcare system is failing for several reasons. There is now an estimated 45 million americans now without insurance or access! With so many sites up it is clear that this is the will of the people and that it is here to stay.

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#186797 - 09/06/05 09:33 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Trampy Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 2111
Loc: Southwest U.S.
Quote:

I don't know where to find out what "most" states are referred to and the exact statutes, but that certainly is a vague statement. If taken to task, the DEA will have to prove that their interprtation of the relationship is in fact correct.




I agree that the statement you take issue with sounds way too vague to have been written by a competent lawyer. I do much better than that here and i'm just a researcher and writer who studies law as a hobby.

Anyone who cites as authority for their argument web sites with Q&As intended for the public instead of cases and codes is not much of a lawyer. Lets's see some legal citations that could be entered into a court pleading.

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#186798 - 09/06/05 04:55 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
leelee27 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 359
Loc: B.F.E.
Quote:

A patient has a medical complaint;
A medical history has been taken;
A physical examination has been performed; and
Some logical connection exists between the medical complaint, the medical history, the physical examination and the drug prescribed.





This to me says..ROP's are legal..I'll go over my reasoning...
A patient has a medical complaint....OK, something hurts.
A medical history has been taken....My PCP has my medical history which I have provided to the ROP.
A physical examination has been performed...OK I have that documented and faxed to the ROP..it doesn't say that the one writting the script has to be the one who preformed the exam?
Some logical connection exists between the medical complaint, the medical history, the physical examination and the drug prescribed. ........the ROP doc has decided based on the info I provided that he'she can write a script for medicine....

I know this is just one persons view on it..but going by those guidelines, a person who used ROP has met all of these guidelines...(I realize that this may vary state to state)
OK..what have I missed.....I think that-in my mind- NROP's have been proven illegal...BUT, I think that anyone can make determinations on what THEY think a document says....(think about the bible and it's many interpretations, I beleive the same can apply to the law)
Alice, do you think that ROP's are safe for now and if not..tell me in your own words why not....I think having other peoples opinions helps me to better educate myself..THANKS MUCH.

Kammi
_________________________
"Is it as cold in the country as it is in the winter?"

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#186799 - 10/08/05 10:02 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
dharma6666 Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 855
Loc: Varies by time of year
Most DEA agents with whom I have spoken readily admit, without argument, that records OPs are a grey area. I have been attempting to determine whether they feel that the two entities are the same, and most see the difference. I am getting together some advocacy groups to keep the focus off records OPs, and soliciting other lawyers to help with the fight. The NROPs are making the fight more difficult, however.
_________________________
A big man stands up for himself. A bigger man stands up for others

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#186800 - 10/08/05 11:59 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Ruggie Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 8800
Loc: Right Here
I really don't see that what ever nrop that are left have even shipped to anyone, sure people are ordering but who has actually received an order from one, and I have been reading that most of the nrop left (what few there are) are wanting ID and medical records, I just cannot see why anybody would use an nrop that wants records and ID when there cost a fortune, so instead of faxing records to an iffy nrop why not just fax them to a ROP and spend less money, and actually be able to count on getting your meds in a timely manner, with refills, a consult is nothing to be nervious or scared of, in fact these docs and PA's are very nice people.

And yes we have to advocate and sign everything we can get our names on to save the ROP's and be able to manage chronic pain, I truly do not feel like chronic pain or anxiety disorders are really recognized by the DEA or the Gov't. We all have to stand as one and write our legislaters and congressman, and the President to, and even the DEA and tell them how it feels to go through pain or anxiety everyday of their lives without any relief.
_________________________
Takes a Lickin' & Keeps on Tickin'love1

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#186801 - 10/11/05 12:55 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
shovelhead Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 843
i think the dea should worry about all the cocaine/heroin that is flowing in more now then ever!! insted they pefer to pick on people with no health insurance and have no other option but to pay more and use these questionable pharmicist's are government is a JOKE!!

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#186802 - 11/15/05 02:04 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
allcoholl Offline
Stranger

Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 11
Quote:

i think the dea should worry about all the cocaine/heroin that is flowing in more now then ever!! insted they pefer to pick on people with no health insurance and have no other option but to pay more and use these questionable pharmicist's are government is a JOKE!!




I'd have to agree. *sigh*

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#186803 - 11/15/05 05:01 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
bunnycat Offline
Banned: Kratom vendor in disguise

Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 1275
Loc: on the Dark Side of the Moon
Quote:

This is the answer given by the DEA (drug Ebforcement Agency) and the USDOJ...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/illegal_internet.html

Quote:

Is It Illegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Internet?

For a prescription to be valid under federal and state law, there must be a bona fide doctor patient relationship, which is defined by most state laws to require a physical examination. “Completing a questionnaire that is then reviewed by a doctor hired by the internet pharmacy could not be considered the basis for a doctor/patient relationship.” Vol. 66 Federal Register 82, PP 21181-21184 (April 27, 2001)

Moreover, if the prescription drug is a controlled substance and the drug is being imported into the U.S. from a foreign country and being shipped to anyone other than a DEA-registered importer, such transaction is a felony in violation of Sections 957 and 960 of Title 21, United States Code.








The administrator's have been doing their homework. Much of what they quoted above can be found in a website created by an attorney, Lawrence G. Walters, of Weston, Garrou, DeWitt, and Walters Law Firm. Links that further discuss the past present and future of online pharmacies can be found in Walter's website, who also lists Drugbuyer's as a link, in his site:

www.PillLaws.com
http://www.dea.gov/illegal_internet.html
http://www.pilllaws.com/articles/02_24_2004.htm
http://www.drugbuyers.com/members/drug_importation/
http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1350635.htm
http://tie.telemed.org/articles/article.asp?path=articles&article=internetPharmacy_gw_tie02.xml
http://www.oncologynetguide.com/v5n5/feature_article1.htm

Many of this websites articles and references to the industry are dated anywhere from 2000-2004 and clear evidence that it was seen coming to this, as far back as then. Written and referenced by attorney Walters, I think he paints a clear picture, or prophetic prediction if you may, of the events that followed in 2005.
_________________________
"Admin edited out the Kratom sources I was trying to promote with my posts"

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#186804 - 12/16/05 03:46 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6308
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/faq/internetpurch.htm#2b

Quote:

DISPENSING AND PURCHASING CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
OVER THE INTERNET



The following Questions and Answers are being published by the drug Enforcement Administration’s (DEA) Office of Diversion Control as an educational/public awareness component relative to the use of the Internet for the purposes of purchasing, prescribing, dispensing and importing of controlled substances. The DEA recognizes that while some Internet sites facilitate legitimate prescribing and dispensing practices, other sites facilitate the illegal sale of controlled substances. These sites of illicit activity enable some consumers to illegally purchase controlled substances without realizing they are committing a crime. The DEA regards this as a critical issue and is taking steps to address it. This document is intended to serve as general guidance to prescribers, pharmacists, the regulatory and law enforcement communities, as well as the general public regarding the application of current laws and regulations to controlled substances transactions conducted via the Internet.

This document explains what constitutes legitimate controlled substances transactions via the Internet.

Questions for Patients/Consumers

Can an individual order drugs using the Internet without seeing a doctor?

What are the types of risks taken by individuals when ordering drugs via the Internet? How can those risks be minimized?

Can underage individuals acquire drugs on the Internet? How can this be prevented from happening?


General Information

What are the basic requirements for prescribing, dispensing, and importing controlled substances?

DEA Registrant Questions about Internet Pharmacies

Is it legal for Internet pharmacies to approach a physician to write prescriptions based on on-line consultations with customers/consumer?

Can an independent pharmacy purchase supplies on the Internet? What procedures must be followed?

Does the label on a prescription filled via the Internet indicate the Internet pharmacy or the registered location that filled the prescription?

Does being an Internet pharmacy change a pharmacy’s responsibilities under DEA regulations?

Is it possible for an Internet pharmacy to fill prescriptions for Schedule II controlled substances?

Is it possible for an Internet pharmacy to fill prescriptions for Schedule III-V controlled substances?

Is it legal to buy controlled substances from foreign Internet sites and have them shipped to the U.S.?

Does it make a difference if an individual has a prescription from a U.S. doctor for controlled substances and buys from a foreign Internet site?

Are the Rules different for "life style" drugs?

What does the VIPPS Seal seen on some Internet pharmacy sites mean?

Where should complaints regarding an "Internet Pharmacy" site on the Internet that appears to be illegally selling drug be directed?

Back to Top

Questions for Patients/Consumers
Can an individual order drugs using the Internet without seeing a doctor?

Federal law requires that "A prescription for a controlled substance to be effective must be issued for a legitimate medical purpose by an individual practitioner acting in the usual course of his professional practice" (21 CFR 1306.04(a)). Every state separately imposes the same requirement under its laws. Under Federal and state law, for a doctor to be acting in the usual course of professional practice, there must be a bona fide doctor/ patient relationship.

For purposes of state law, many state authorities, with the endorsement of medical societies, consider the existence of the following four elements as an indication that a legitimate doctor/patient relationship has been established:

A patient has a medical complaint;
A medical history has been taken;
A physical examination has been performed; and
Some logical connection exists between the medical complaint, the medical history, the physical examination and the drug prescribed.
A patient completing a questionnaire that is then reviewed by a physician hired by or working on behalf of an Internet pharmacy does not establish a doctor/patient relationship. A consumer can more easily provide false information in a questionnaire than in a face-to-face meeting with the physician. It is illegal to receive a prescription for a controlled substance without the establishment of a legitimate doctor/patient relationship, and it is unlikely for such a relationship to be formed through Internet correspondence alone. However, this is not intended to limit the ability of practitioners to engage in telemedicine. For purposes of this guidance document, telemedicine refers to the provision of health care using telecommunication networks to transmit and receive information including voice communications, images and patient records.

Some Internet sites recommend to the patient that they not take a new drug before they have a complete physical performed by a doctor. These sites then ask the patient to waive the requirement for a physical and to agree to have a physical before taking the drug they purchase via the Internet. An after the fact physical does not take the place of establishing a doctor/patient relationship. The physical exam should take place before the prescription is written. These types of activities by Internet pharmacies can subject the operators of the Internet site and any pharmacies or doctors who participate in the activity to criminal, civil, or administrative actions. For DEA registrants, administrative action may include the loss of their DEA registration. Additionally, providing false material information to obtain controlled substances could be considered obtaining a controlled substance by fraud and deceit, which is subject to Federal and State penalties.

What are the types of risks taken by individuals when ordering drugs via the Internet? How can those risks be minimized?

Persons considering purchasing drugs via an Internet pharmacy should exercise good common sense and scrutiny in selecting an Internet pharmacy. An "Internet pharmacy" site should provide a physical address for the pharmacy, in addition to the Internet address and a telephone number for the pharmacy. Some common indicators that the "Internet Pharmacy" site may not be legitimate and should not be used as a source for controlled substances include the following:

The site is not a participant in any insurance plan and requires that all payments be made with a credit card.
The site requires that you waive some rights before they send you the drugs.
The site advises you about the law and why it is permissible for you to obtain pharmaceutical controlled substances from foreign countries via the Internet.
The site does not ask the name, address, or phone number of your current physician.
The site advises you to have the drugs sent to post office boxes or other locations to avoid detection by U.S. authorities.
The site does not require that you provide a bona fide prescription issued by your personal physician or mid-level practitioner.
Can underage individuals acquire drugs on the Internet? How can this be prevented from happening?

Underage individuals can acquire drugs on the Internet in the same manner as an adult. The only way to prevent this is to restrict Internet access. In many instances, the young person will need a credit card to pay for the drugs. In these instances, parents can prevent drug purchases by withholding access to a credit card.

As previously stated, a prescription not issued in the usual course of professional practice or not for legitimate medical/research purposes is not considered valid. Both the practitioner and the pharmacy have a responsibility to ensure that only legitimate prescriptions are written and filled.

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General Information
What are the basic requirements for prescribing, dispensing, and importing controlled substances?

Only practitioners acting in the usual course of their professional practice may prescribe controlled substances. These practitioners must be registered with DEA and licensed to prescribe controlled substances by the State(s) in which they operate. Pharmacies filling prescriptions for controlled substances must also be registered with DEA and licensed to dispense controlled substances by the State(s) in which they operate. A prescription not issued in the usual course of professional practice or not for legitimate and authorized research is not considered valid. Both the practitioner and the pharmacy have a responsibility to ensure that only legitimate prescriptions are written and filled.

Pharmacists must receive written and manually signed prescriptions for Schedule II substances. They may receive oral or faxed prescriptions for Schedule III-V substances provided they confirm the legitimacy of the prescription and the practitioner. Prescriptions for Schedule II controlled substances may not be refilled. Prescriptions for Schedule III-V controlled substances may be authorized to be refilled five times, but no prescription may be filled or refilled more than six months after the date on which the prescription was issued. Only those people who are registered with DEA as importers and who are in compliance with DEA requirements may have controlled substances shipped into the customs territory or jurisdiction of the U.S. from a foreign country.

DEA regulations covering prescriptions can be found in Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations, part 1306; Rules on importers are found in 21 CFR 1312.

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DEA Registrant Questions about Internet Pharmacies
Is it legal for Internet pharmacies to approach a physician to write prescriptions based on on-line consultations with customers/consumer?

A physician may use the Internet to provide information and to communicate with the patient, but it cannot be the sole basis for authorizing prescriptions. If a doctor/patient relationship exists, a doctor can use the Internet to communicate with patients. Where a doctor/patient relationship exists, the doctor may use the Internet to receive requests for treatment. DEA cautions, however, that such requests for treatment should be logical based upon a doctor’s knowledge of the patient’s medical history and the medical complaint. The doctor may also use the Internet to receive requests for refills of prescriptions from patients.

Can an independent pharmacy purchase supplies on the Internet? What procedures must be followed?

Pharmacies can use the Internet to facilitate their purchases; however, the basic regulations regarding registration and recordkeeping apply. The pharmacy can only purchase from a registered supplier and the pharmacy must maintain complete and accurate records describing the name, address and registration number of the supplier, a description of the drugs purchased and the date the drugs are received. For Schedule II controlled substances, official DEA Order Forms must be used. Recordkeeping requirements for dispensers can be found in Section 1304 of the Code of Federal Regulations (see 21 CFR 1304.22(c) for continuing recordkeeping requirements). Recordkeeping requirements pertaining to the use of official Order Forms can be found in Section 1305 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

Does the label on a prescription filled via the Internet indicate the Internet pharmacy or the registered location that filled the prescription?

The label must list the name and registered location of the pharmacy that dispensed the controlled substance.

Does being an Internet pharmacy change a pharmacy’s responsibilities under DEA regulations?

No, Internet pharmacies are still authorized to sell controlled substances only when there is a valid prescription from a DEA-registered practitioner who issued the prescription in the usual course of his or her professional practice.

Is it possible for an Internet pharmacy to fill prescriptions for Schedule II controlled substances?

An Internet pharmacy may fill valid prescriptions for Schedule II substances if the patient or prescriber provides the pharmacy with the manually signed original prescriptions prior to dispensing. Practically, it is unlikely that most patients will want to wait the time required for such a transaction to be completed.

Is it possible for an Internet pharmacy to fill prescriptions for Schedule III-V controlled substances?

Internet pharmacies may receive an original signed prescription or a facsimile of the original signed prescription, or an oral prescription, where allowed, which must be verified and immediately reduced to writing. Internet pharmacies have the responsibility to ensure the legitimacy of the prescription and the prescriber. At this time, DEA does not permit a prescription received via the Internet to be filled. If prescription information is transmitted via the Internet, the receiving pharmacy must contact the prescriber via telephone and receive an oral prescription for the controlled substance, including the full name and address of the patient, the drug name, strength, dosage form, quantity prescribed, directions for use and the name, address and registration number of the practitioner (21 CFR 1306.05(a)). The pharmacy must immediately reduce this oral prescription to writing (21 CFR 1306.21(a)).

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Is it legal to buy controlled substances from foreign Internet sites and have them shipped to the U.S.?

No, having controlled substances shipped to the U.S. is illegal unless the purchaser is registered with DEA as an importer and is in compliance with 21 U.S.C. 952, 953 and 954 and 21 CFR part 1312. Some foreign Internet sites claim they can legally sell these controlled substances; other sites, knowing that such shipments are illegal, advise consumers of ways to avoid having the packages seized by U.S. Customs. The Controlled Substances Act prohibits any person from importing into the customs territory of the U.S. any controlled substance or List I chemical (21 U.S.C 971) and (21 CFR part 1313) unless that person maintains a valid, current authorization to import such substances or chemicals (21 U.S.C. 957(a)).

Illegal importation of controlled substances is a felony that may result in imprisonment and fines (21 U.S.C. 960).

Does it make a difference if an individual has a prescription from a U.S. doctor for controlled substances and buys from a foreign Internet site?

No, the law remains the same. The only condition in which controlled substances may be shipped to a purchaser in the U.S. from another country is if the purchaser is registered with DEA as an importer and is in compliance with DEA's requirements.

Are the Rules different for "life style" drugs?

Some people have applied the phrase "life style drugs" to certain medications, such as Viagra®, weight control medications and tranquilizers. Many of the so-called life style drugs, such as Viagra®, are not controlled substances. If a "life style" drug is a controlled substance, however, it is still subject to all regulations for controlled substances. In order to have a prescription filled for a "life style" drug that is a controlled substance, DEA requires a prescription from a DEA registered prescriber and the prescription must be filled by a DEA registered pharmacy.

What does the VIPPS Seal seen on some Internet pharmacy sites mean?

The National Association of Boards of Pharmacy (NABP) has developed a voluntary program called the Verified Internet Pharmacy Practice Sites (VIPPS). The NABP issues a "seal of approval" to Internet pharmacies that meet standards regarding State licensing and DEA registration. To be VIPPS certified, a pharmacy must comply with the licensing and inspection requirements of their State and each State to which they dispense pharmaceuticals. In addition, pharmacies displaying the VIPPS seal have demonstrated to NABP compliance with VIPPS criteria including patient rights to privacy, authentication and security of prescription orders, adherence to a recognized quality assurance policy and provision of meaningful consultation between patients and pharmacists. The NABP also provides information on whether a pharmacy is licensed and in good standing (http://www.nabp.net).

Where should complaints regarding an "Internet Pharmacy" site on the Internet that appears to be illegally selling drug be directed?

If the complaint involves a pharmaceutical controlled substance, you may file a report on-line, or contact the DEA, Office of Diversion Control, drug Operations Section, Washington, DC 20537, telephone (202) 307-7194 or contact your local DEA office .

If the complaint involves any pharmaceutical drug other than a controlled substance, contact the U.S. Food and drug Administration, HFC-230, 5600 Fishers Lane, Rockville, MD 20857, or file a report on the FDA's web site at http://www.fda.gov/oc/buyonline/buyonlineform.htm.

If the complaint involves a pharmacist or a physician, the respective State Board of Pharmacy or the State Board of Medicine where the pharmacist or doctor is located should be contacted.

Persons wishing to file complaints may wish to view other sites on the Internet such as the NABP (http://www.nabp.net).

In the event further websites are identified which advertise the sale of controlled pharmaceutical substances, the nearest DEA Diversion Group office should be contacted and provided that information. A list of DEA offices and telephone numbers can be found at the DEA Office of Diversion website.

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>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#186805 - 12/22/05 01:28 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
boylston Offline
Member

Registered: 07/23/02
Posts: 172
Quote:

Taken by the DEA or sold to other sites.




I doubt the DEA would do anything with the names, other than file the list away, unless something really unusual stood out. The DEA is way too busy to go after people who merely possess quantities consistent with personal use. (In fact, it might not even be a federal crime.) For the most part, a "user" is only of interest to them if said user can identify a dealer, and in this hypothetical scenario, the "dealer" is already known.

And if it's an ROP, well, the DEA has for years ducked the question of whether that business model is legit, so I'm not too worried.

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#186806 - 01/08/06 07:08 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
brain4201 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 256
Loc: 30.723N and -95.55W
It walks a thin line of legality. How can a physician properly treat you via the telephone? This is really digging up old bones, I have used telemedicine myself, but know many pharmacists that wouldnt fill these scripts. The bottom line, people will get what they want, when they want it, if they want it bad enough. If someone really has a legitimate need for 86 hydrocodone a day, then by all means, eat away. We all know the answer to this question, some just choose to hide behind the mask of persecution.
_________________________
Once you label me you negate me.
Soren Kierkegaard


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#186807 - 01/13/06 06:01 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
skat Offline
Member

Registered: 01/05/02
Posts: 37
Loc: USA
Quote:

...How can a physician properly treat you via the telephone?




Yes, this is an old road, but as long as there are new people logging in to the site daily, I think it's good to rehash for their benefit and allow them to participate in the discussion. Sure, they can read the old posts, don't know about you but I learn better by discussion, not just reading. JMO, tho..

If many CP patients were being "properly treated" by their face to face physicians, they wouldn't have to turn to telemedicine.

Face to face doesn't equal proper treatment -- there are too many people getting substandard treatment. I realize that there are recreational users that make it tough for people with legitimate needs, but you must admit that certain federal agencies have made it very difficult for many decent doctors who are now afraid to properly prescribe. I can't see where I necessarily blame them, but there's where it often becomes necessary for us to walk that thin line (or, walk the plank... same thing!). People in severe pain are generally willing to do just about anything to stop it.

I'm suddenly reminded of my now-former dentist, who gave me a complex root canal and sent me home with instructions to take Advil.

Advil! For God's sake!

As far as a doctor treating properly via the telephone, I believe 100% that there should be medical records involved. And more than a two-minute conversation should be taking place. He/she should be asking the right questions, and listening carefully to the answers. When I was using ROPs, there was a doctor who not only listened carefully, but also offered suggestions for alternative herbal remedies in addition to the medication. I found that to be refreshing... he was open for questions and didn't seem to be rushing to get me off the phone and on to the next consult.
_________________________
Carpe Dimension Seize the Dell!

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#186808 - 02/04/06 10:50 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
brain4201 Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 256
Loc: 30.723N and -95.55W
Skat I must concur on the concise and insightful information you mention in your post. If the proper documenation is provided. It is likely that a physician could continue with a modality of treatment that a physican has previously diagnosed. Granted, the purpose of telemedicine is not to DX, but rather to assist with the palliative care that is often neccessary with regard to treating intractable pain. Your points were well spoken and duely noted. Thanks for the input.
_________________________
Once you label me you negate me.
Soren Kierkegaard


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#186809 - 02/13/06 08:35 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6308
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
This link is also very good
http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/consumer_alert.htm


Quote:

READ THIS BEFORE PURCHASING
PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OVER THE INTERNET !!!
DEA Warning--Buying drugs online may be illegal and dangerous!

Federal law prohibits buying controlled substances such as narcotic pain relievers (e.g., OxyContin®, Vicodin ®), sedatives (e.g., Valium®, Xanax®, Ambien®), stimulants (e.g., phentermine, phendimetrazine, Adderall®, Ritalin®) and anabolic steroids (e.g., Winstrol®, Equipoise®) without a valid prescription from your doctor. This means there must be a real doctor-patient relationship, which by most state laws requires a physical examination. Prescriptions written by "cyber doctors" relying on online questionnaires are not legitimate under the law.

Buying controlled substances online without a valid prescription may be punishable by imprisonment under Federal law. Often drugs ordered from rogue websites come from foreign countries. It is a felony to import drugs into the United States and ship to a non-DEA registrant.

Buying drugs online may not be only illegal, but dangerous. The American Medical Association and state boards of medicine and pharmacy have all condemned the practice of cyber doctors issuing online prescriptions as unacceptable medical care. Drugs delivered by rogue websites may be the wrong drugs, adulterated or expired, the wrong dosage strength, or have no dosage directions or warnings.

DEA is targeting rogue online pharmacies for prosecution and shutting down these illegal websites. See the results of one such investigation, Operation Cyber Chase, at www.DEA.gov/pressrel/pr042005.html.

How to spot a rogue pharmacy: www.DEAdiversion.usdoj.gov/faq/internetpurch.htm

To report illegal prescription drug sales and/or rogue pharmacies operating on the Internet call the anonymous Pharmaceutical drug Abuse Hotline: 1-877-RxAbuse (1-877-792-2873)




_________________________
>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#186810 - 02/13/06 03:39 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Rogerdodger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 93
Loc: out and about
Well, here is a bona fide conundrum; I do have a real script for the meds I take, have a real doctor/patient relationship, but have occasional need for more than the doctor feels comfortable providing, so I order a modest amount and get it shipped from overseas. Anyone care to share their opinion on this? I guess I could ask my Dr. for records to keep at home just in case the DEA were to ask me why I am buying these meds, Schedule IV, by the way...

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#186811 - 02/14/06 02:03 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
amaryllias Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 73
Quote:

Well, here is a bona fide conundrum; I do have a real script for the meds I take, have a real doctor/patient relationship, but have occasional need for more than the doctor feels comfortable providing, so I order a modest amount and get it shipped from overseas. Anyone care to share their opinion on this? I guess I could ask my Dr. for records to keep at home just in case the DEA were to ask me why I am buying these meds, Schedule IV, by the way...




you really have no worries here -- DEA has no jurisdiction when it comes to americans ordering needed medications for their PERSONAL USE. DEA is concerned with suppliers only, and if you read every post on this site, you will not find anyone posting that any U.S. DEA agent asked why they were buying any meds.

you are good to go, and my opinion is that you sound like a caring individual who has found a decent solution to a problem many have right now wherein you sometimes need more meds than your doc prescribes, but you don't want to rock the boat so you are quietly taking care of business.

BTW, please remember, when you purchase needed medications from overseas in personal use quantities, you are simply exercising your LEGAL rights as an american citizen.

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#186812 - 02/14/06 02:42 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Shayne Offline
Stranger

Registered: 01/26/06
Posts: 16
Loc: FL
Whether a person choses to take the risk of buying medication overseas that is up to them. But, they should know the law before making such an important decision.

Is it legal to buy controlled substances from foreign Internet sites and have them shipped to the U.S.?

No, having controlled substances shipped to the U.S. is illegal unless the purchaser is registered with DEA as an importer and is in compliance with 21 U.S.C. 952, 953 and 954 and 21 CFR part 1312. Some foreign Internet sites claim they can legally sell these controlled substances; other sites, knowing that such shipments are illegal, advise consumers of ways to avoid having the packages seized by U.S. Customs. The Controlled Substances Act prohibits any person from importing into the customs territory of the U.S. any controlled substance or List I chemical (21 U.S.C 971) and (21 CFR part 1313) unless that person maintains a valid, current authorization to import such substances or chemicals (21 U.S.C. 957(a)).

Illegal importation of controlled substances is a felony that may result in imprisonment and fines (21 U.S.C. 960).

Does it make a difference if an individual has a prescription from a U.S. doctor for controlled substances and buys from a foreign Internet site?

No, the law remains the same. The only condition in which controlled substances may be shipped to a purchaser in the U.S. from another country is if the purchaser is registered with DEA as an importer and is in compliance with DEA's requirements.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/faq/internetpurch.htm

It is illegal, even if it is needed and even in the smallest quantity. It has to be a risk one is willing to take. Granted we never see any posts here about any run in's with LE, but, no one can say it can't happen.

Shayne

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#186813 - 02/14/06 02:56 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Fyre Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 311
Legal or not, I just want to say one thing:

When the dr's were giving me motrin for my broken back and I had no where else to turn.

Thank god for the internet and the ability to have pain relief. It probably saved my life until I could go out of state and find a real doctor.

I am now 2 weeks out of surgery: Spinal fusion, broken pars repair, total disk replacement and bone grafting to hold it all together.

I don't know if I could have held on much longer on just motrin
_________________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside,totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming WHEW what a ride!

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#186814 - 02/14/06 04:00 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
lolajones Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 190
More ROP's should ship in boxes. That would help us all out.

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#186815 - 02/17/06 07:43 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
ragdoll316 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/27/01
Posts: 144
Loc: Home of the Blues
They are coming along, it wasn't so long ago that boxes were UNHEARD of. Give them time, they all want to be competitive and if they see a trend of patients gravitating to pharmacies that ship in boxes, I believe more and more will follow suit.

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#186816 - 03/30/06 07:17 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Monchhichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
Hell, half of the time I am seen by a physician's assistant or midwife that can't even prescribe meds. I have never once met my gynecologist or my internal medicine doctor.

So, anyone that wants to discredit internet doctors because they aren't face-to-face needs to chew on that for a bit.
_________________________
Everything is good in moderation, including moderation. - Oscar Wilde

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#186817 - 04/01/06 03:57 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
painstaking Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 07/21/04
Posts: 239
You know the article never really discussed reputable ROPs that require significant records and have a phone consultation that can last for as long as a normal consultation. The DEA response seemed to be focused on the NROP websites that have you fill out that lil questionnaire and pay 300, then you just wait and the meds come flying. I wish we could get some serious responses within a discussion of the legality of internet doctors which strive to be thorough enough to ascertain whether or not the patient will benefit and is in need of medication. Furthermore, all the media coverage is not even focused on the relevant OPs, it seems they always speak of backdoor drug deals that are clearly illegal, unethical, and embarrassing to CP sufferers.

Painstaking

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#186818 - 04/03/06 03:47 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Monchhichi Offline
Newbie

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 38
Loc: USA
That is the DEA for you; fear mongers. They want to "warn" the public that their children, family and friends are on the internet with the ability to order whatever drug they want with just a few clicks. They gloss over the fact that for many, reputable ROP's have saved money and vastly improved the quality of life for many chronic pain patients.

The DEA needs to certainly focus on these no questions asked foreign and statewide companies. It is in the best interest of people who may not yet be familiar with the internet process and med seekers. Instead they lump everything into one group so anyone even remotely associated with internet doctors/pharmacies appears to be
breaking the law.

Doctors are too afraid to prescribe anything but Motrin. Patients are too embarassed and frustrated to let their doctors know that Motrin isn't going to treat the pain of a broken back or shingles. The DEA is breathing down the doctors' necks to teach their patients some kind of moral lesson instead of doing their job (providing relief and treating medical issues).

One of these days, someone will have to speak up and really start to fight for our rights to obtain necessary pain relief without question or consequence.
_________________________
Everything is good in moderation, including moderation. - Oscar Wilde

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#186819 - 04/04/06 06:47 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
TwG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 66
Quote:

It depends. "Telemedicine" is booming. My girlfriend is prescribed dexedrine for ADHD. Her doctor encourages her to use her insurance company - via the Internet - to buy her medication in a 3 month supply.

He writes her the prescription and she goes online, fills out some stuff, and mails off the script. A few weeks later, she gets 180 (!) Smith-Kline dextro-amphetamine sulfate spansule capsules delivered via DHL and her insurance company pays for it.

NROPs and ROPs seem to occupy a gray area of legality. IMHO, there's yet no definitive answer to your question.

If you use the Internet to order controlled substances from another country, then yeah, that's probably pretty cut and dried - assuming of course that Customs finds it. But even then, you'll likely only get a "love letter" from Customs telling you that's a no-no.




BS, you can't get refills on c-2 drugs, nor are they supossed to prescribe more than a month supply at 1 time. Ask anyone on Ritalin or oxycodone how much is sucks going to the dr every month to get more drugs. You can not get a 3 month supply of c-2 drugs, no exceptions. Also to the person that said the DEA should stick to looking for heroin and cocaine, you must not be to bright, or you are ignorant of our swollen prison population. The government has waged a war on drugs for over 30 years, and within those 30 years they went after drs, drug dealers, and anyone in between. I also hate to tell you this, but the [censored] drs. give out kills more people each year than any illegal drug combined. This only OP thing has been around for years and is really making the DEA look stupid, their are countless people getting prescriptions like clock work cause of OP, not most just some, and ask any dr about the whole idea of tele prescription and how ethical it is and they will usually say its pretty questionable. Whether or not any of you wanna believe it, most of these places are pill mills and bang out scripts everyday like clockwork. Prescribing hydrocodone after talking to you for less than 10 minutes is pretty questionable. I personally think the war on drugs is whack though, and people should be able to get whatever meds they want OTC. I think the WOD is unconstitutional, and if you look at it roots it was the religious nuts crying wolf for a buncha substances that are no more dangerous than alcohol, or tobacco. They just didn't have a voice. And as long as the illegal drug market is a over 100 billion dollar a year enterprise, drugs will flow thru the borders like water thru a river. Money buys politicians thru lobbying, and the drug lords are the last people that want to see drugs legal. Pharmacetical companies can be thanked for probally keeping both ephedrine and pseudoephedrine OTC, hydrocodone in preperation under 10 mg per dose unit (mixed with asa or apap) schedule 3, and even for keeping the OP market so low key, who knows. But I do know that a lot of those Drs. wrote a lot of schedule 3 and 4 medication and the fact that they didn't lose their DEA # is suspect. The fact that the DEA doesn't start pulling random a lot of the OPs DEA #s is suspect. The DEA doesn't like to look dumb (though its really hard considering how easy it is to get drugs now, whether online or off the street.) I really do think that the OP market has a lot of potential, but as it is now, I don't see it staying like this until some more controls are implimented, from a legal standpoint at least. I think we should be able to get hydrocodone, xanax, codeine, and all other drugs in a pharmacy OTC or at the most, behind the counter with proof of ID. Noone has the right to tell you what you can do to your body, noone.

Than again, I remeber geting pain meds from norcodirect thinking this will never last more than a year in 2001. Fast forward 5 years, and nothing is really different, except almost all the OPS require you to send your records in before the first fill now. *Points and laughs at DEA*

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#186820 - 04/05/06 06:00 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
expatinuk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 988
I didn't read your whole post but wanted to let you know
that you are in fact WRONG regarding getting a 3 month supply of meds (regardless of scheduling). Many insurance companies do this as it is easier and cheaper for all concerned. The only caveat I know of is that the package must be signed for by a person over the age of 21. Check your own insurance if you have some. There are threads all over here where peeps state they receive oxys etc. in 90 day supply. Also the US government sends out this way too to our Vets. It is one of those items that gets passed around as fact when in fact, it is untrue.
Sincerely,
expatinuk
_________________________
" Once in a while you get shone the light, in the strangest of places, if you look at it right " GD

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#186821 - 04/06/06 01:11 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
TwG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 66
You can't put refills on scheduled medicine, I used to be on Ritalin and I had to see the dr each time I saw him. Goto the DEA's website, I'll post a link to the exact location. The schedule DOES matter by the way. Even my mom knows this info.

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#186822 - 04/06/06 01:38 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
dmg Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2164
Loc: Bearing Strait Ice/Land Bridge
TwG - there is a difference between getting refills on a medication and getting a 90-day supply all at one time. State laws vary on the availability of this.

You're right though. Nationally - no refills are allowed on Schedule II medications. But again - that doesn't preclude them from being able to be prescribed in a 90-day supply without any refills.

In certain situations - a doctor can indicate on the prescription itself certain conditions that allow for the prescription to be filled as a 90-day supply - even for C-II medications. This is a fact, but also - varies by State.

It's not impossible - but it's not commonplace nor the standard practice either.

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#186823 - 04/06/06 11:35 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
expatinuk Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 988
Thanks DMG, once again I didn't take the time to articulate
my point.
TwG - your line about your Mom cracks me up. Even parents don't know everything. As DMG pointed out there is a difference between refills and an initial 90 day supply prescription.
_________________________
" Once in a while you get shone the light, in the strangest of places, if you look at it right " GD

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#186824 - 04/07/06 12:08 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
mohydrplease Offline
Banned: rude and unpolite

Registered: 06/23/05
Posts: 223
Loc: 3rd rock from the sun
i dont know if this really qualifies .....buttttttttttt

my father before he passed away used his medicare insurance to obtain his diabetic meds ..i.e insulin. in three month supply and other drugs as well ......anti seizure meds blood pressure meds ...cholesteroll meds etc... some of these meds are sched...not all but def...some of them .so i dont know ...in some places with certain insurance programs it is possible to obtain said amount of medication ......thats my 2 pennies ......
_________________________
"Since we are destined to live out our lives in the prisons of our minds, our one duty is to furnish it well. " --Peter Ustinov AN OLD SOLE

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#186825 - 04/07/06 05:38 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
TwG Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 66
Its different in my state, it is illegal to give more than a 30 day supply here. I was under the impression that for scheduled drugs you can only give out a months supply at one time, this is not the case federally. c-2 can't be refilled, which is why in my state this is the case. It is also rare for dr.s to write scheduled medication for more than a month reguardlessly, but according to the DEA you can prescribe a 3 month supply of schedule 2 drugs, but even if its a week supply, you can't add refills. I was wrong, but it is a common misconception. I was wrong, but its was cause the law really doesn't make sense. I figured no refills, why the hell would you be able to prescribe someone a 3 month supply of meds. It also has to do with the fact that I've never seen a prescription for more than 1 month supply of a drug, the refills are usually for the next month. It is however as I said illegal in my state.

I also think that you can't prescribe narcotices in this way.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2005/fr0826.htm

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#186826 - 04/07/06 06:03 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
MicSlyness Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 1769
Loc: Water Closet
Quote:

Its different in my state, it is illegal to give more than a 30 day supply here. I was under the impression that for scheduled drugs you can only give out a months supply at one time, this is not the case federally. c-2 can't be refilled, which is why in my state this is the case. It is also rare for dr.s to write scheduled medication for more than a month reguardlessly, but according to the DEA you can prescribe a 3 month supply of schedule 2 drugs, but even if its a week supply, you can't add refills. I was wrong, but it is a common misconception. I was wrong, but its was cause the law really doesn't make sense. I figured no refills, why the hell would you be able to prescribe someone a 3 month supply of meds. It also has to do with the fact that I've never seen a prescription for more than 1 month supply of a drug, the refills are usually for the next month. It is however as I said illegal in my state.

I also think that you can't prescribe narcotices in this way.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/fed_regs/rules/2005/fr0826.htm




Or your doctor can write you 3 months worth of scripts meaning 3 different paper scripts in one visit. Man I sure do miss my old doctor, lol!

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#186827 - 04/07/06 07:43 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
pirsanj Offline
Banned for multiple ID's:miketomkin, fitsbelt

Registered: 04/04/06
Posts: 21
is 30 pills the maxium supply of meds per month?

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#186828 - 04/07/06 11:12 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
arronboy Offline
Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 151
Loc: northern California
Yes you can get scheduled medications in 3 month supplies at a time with just 1 Dr visit, my fiancee's insurance covers that at a discount and if you prefer mailorders as your avenue of receiving your prescriptions, then they will ONLY send the meds in 3-month supplies at a time and give you a discount on the shipping. They will not even ship a 1 month supply of meds. It is Kaiser and they are a huge corporation but this being unheard of or illegal, has got to be a misunderstanding on the individual reading the laws that are posted. BTW, its Hydrocodone that my fiancee receives this way if he chooses to do so. Also, my son sees the Dr once every 3 months through telemedicine (watched and talk to on a big screen where we can see each other, but not in person) and he gets scripted several controlled meds with 6 refills and we have never met the Dr face-to-face except through the telemedicine screen that I stated. It is our local nonprofit regional center that does this because the Dr is knowledgable of conditions such as my son's and he is located 6 hours away so they do it this way and its legal................ arronboy

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#186829 - 04/08/06 08:32 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
forward Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/08/04
Posts: 224
I don't believe there is a maximum...its up to the doc writing the script.

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#186830 - 06/21/06 10:06 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
jhitt Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 2
A slap on the hand is about it...

I had been ordering Asenlix from PM meds for over a year until customs caught on to them. I received a letter in the mail advising the package was seized and that was about it...


Edited by Administrator (07/02/06 09:05 PM)

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#186831 - 08/05/06 01:22 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
wonka Offline
Stranger

Registered: 07/30/06
Posts: 1
When joining one of the ROPs how can one be sure that the pills are actually being prescribed by a bona-fide licensed doctor? What steps can/should one take to cover themselves?

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#186832 - 08/07/06 12:18 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Administrator Offline
Administrator
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 6308
Loc: DrugBuyers.Com
From: http://www.justthinktwice.com/drugfacts/e-dealers.cfm

Quote:

drug dealers are using the Internet to sell their drugs. Some people believe that ordering drugs on the Internet --- particularly prescription pharmaceuticals (pills) --- is a safe, legal and easy way to get high. Nothing could be further from the truth.

There are millions of websites offering drugs such as Vicodin™ and Xanax™ to Internet users. Spam messages to user’s emails advertise that these drugs are available with the click of a mouse and a credit card number. Many sites claim you don’t need a doctor’s prescription to buy these powerful drugs. And some ask you to fill out a bogus questionnaire to make their drug dealing look more legitimate. What you don’t know can really hurt you.

Here's a few things to be aware of:

Selling or buying controlled substances without a legitimate doctor’s prescription is a violation of law.
Many of the websites offering controlled substances are located overseas. Usually, there are no doctors involved in these enterprises. You have no idea where the drugs are made, what’s actually in them, or who’s behind the drug ring selling you controlled substances. This kind of a transaction is a felony (a violation of Sections 957 and 960 of Title 21, United States Code) --- very serious stuff.


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>>> I welcome all PM's but please do not contact me by PM for lost or forgotten usernames or passwords. Click here to recover your UN or PW online or you can contact us via www.drugbuyers.com/help >>>> please reply to my posts and do not let me be a "thread killer" :-(

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#186833 - 08/07/06 12:38 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
TideDoc Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/21/06
Posts: 502

The names and medical records of the people at the telemed site and/or the pharmacy that goes down goes into DEA records where they do I do not know what with them.

The reason that a doctor would encourage a patient to get their meds via the internet is in the case where the doctor writes the script and then the patient faxes it to the pharmacy (or the doctor).

The doctor has seen and examined the patient.

The DEA believes that buying any type of scheduled drug-from diet pills to Viagara to lortabs-is illegal.

So what the patient has to decide is how much risk are you willing to take knowing the DEA believes that everybody using an ROP is a pusher or junkie (and they do) versus the convenience of not having to sit around being treated like a criminal in some doctor's office.

There are I suspect literally millions of CP patients obtaining their meds using ROPs and therein lies the problem. Contrary to the DEA's beliefs we cannot all be junkies and addicts.

If your state has a prescription monitoring program-and 26 do now-even your ROP script will be sent to the database where the info will be submitted along with-usually-your name, address, social security number and so forth.

Any doctor or pharmacist will be able to access the database to see who is ordering from the web or who is getting pain meds or whatever from the internet.

Some doctors drop patients just for using ROPs regardless of their area of practice i.e if you family doc found out you were ordering narcotics fromt the web he/she would likely drop you as a patient even though your pain meds have nothing to do with family practice-

There is such a stigma attacked to the use of internet pharamcies that most non-ROP medical professionals caste a very jaundiced eye toward the practice.

For what all of this is worth-

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#186834 - 08/07/06 12:56 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Patricia40 Offline
Newbie

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 41
So what you are saying is if i get a prescription from my primary doctor for one thing and get a prescription for something totally different from an rop my primary doctor will know about it even though my Dr and ROP are in different states? So in essence the "database" goes beyond your state to other states? I live in one of those states that apparently hs a monitoring system. I am just trying to be clear on what these databses are and if they go between state to state.

Thanks for any clarification.

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#186835 - 08/07/06 02:41 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
IMSUSCOT1 Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 1519
Loc: usa
Actually, your doctor CAN write for a three month supply to be filled through an insurance mail order pharmacy....he writes the script for the FULL quantity of the 90 day supply i.e. I take oxycontin 80 mgs three times a day...so the script was written Oxycontin 80 mg's - Take 1 tab PO TID Dispense quantity of 270 two-hundred and seventy pills....my mail order pharmacy is filling it as I type.

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#186836 - 08/07/06 05:47 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
mike453 Offline
Banned: multiople ID's. DoomNGloom

Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 39
A lot of time is spent debating the legality of ROPs but do any of us have a sense of what the risks amount to? If ROPs are found to be illegal and the DEA or states wanted to make an example of some CR patients, what would be the typical/likely penalty? Assume they dont try get you for intent to distribute - just possession. Schedule III or IV. Obviously all states are a little different but what's the garden variety penalty? I havent seen any postings on this.

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#186837 - 09/14/06 05:56 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
mentoramy05 Offline

GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 1972
Loc: In your Eyes
Does it mean as long as records are faxed in, everything is ok and I can't get into trouble. I have not posted in a while, but I have been reading......I really enjoy all said....Also, can pills be purchased from more than 1 place? or is there a limit to one only? Please someone PM me and let me know...Thanks so much

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#186838 - 09/20/06 07:11 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
denise2005 Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 60
Here's a question... If one receives meds (hydro) via an ROP, and the bottle states "2 refills left", can the refills left be filled by a local pharmacy (i.e. cvs, walgreens, etc..), or transfered to a local pharmacy?? As long as the refill date is 30 days. I have had a hard time finding the right med that does not upset my stomach. Even though generic brands are suppose to be the same, I guess they use different "fillers". The only brand of meds that do not make me sick to my stomach or overly tired I cannot get via ROP (mallinckrodt). However, the local pharmacies seem to carry the brand. So, I am stuck w/taking meds that will help my pain, however, make me sick while doing so. I know there is a med that will not do that, but the ROP's I have tried all seem to carry norco/watson/vintage, which don't sit well with me. I'm trying to find a solution. Any help appreciated! Thanks!


Edited by denise2005 (09/20/06 12:32 PM)

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#186839 - 01/06/07 10:42 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
coreyl Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/31/06
Posts: 1
would anyone know if nubain(nalbuphine hydrochloride)is illegal to obtain online. it is not under a controlled substance and if so where in the us?

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#186840 - 01/13/07 05:40 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
boston_pup Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1255
Quote:

would anyone know if nubain(nalbuphine hydrochloride)is illegal to obtain online. it is not under a controlled substance and if so where in the us?




Welcome to the board! Everyone will be as helpful as possible. You may even want to introduce yourself so we can get to know you.

On your question, do a search for nubain and you will find on here a lot of information. Please do a search before purchasing from a place you have never bought from before because their are a lot of scammers out there. When I did a search for you I came up with a lot of places that were scammers but it looked liked some people had luck but it was from email sources. Email sources are a very large gamble to say the least, just so you are warned! Any way here is one of the threads I found for you when I searched. I hope this helps! Remember, this is an email source, so please read the warnings concerning email sources on here before ordering! DrugBuyers.com does NOT endorse email sources and I do not think you can get it through a ROP. Good luck!

Nubain

Boston

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#186841 - 01/20/07 09:25 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
RYSHY Offline
Stranger

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 1
Loc: California
If proper procedure is followed with obtaining controlled substances, then it is not illegal. However, you should check the laws of your state where you reside and research what the statutes stipulate.

Some states, like Kentucky, make telemedicine illegal, unless certain procedure is followed.

-Roger


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#186842 - 05/28/07 01:28 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Bojangles69 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 05/17/07
Posts: 230
OK this is going to be a very quick and dumb question about the whole "personal suppy" issue which appears to be defined by orders for a 90 day or less supply of meds.

So to clear things up does this mean WITH a script, we are not allowed to order more than 90 days worth of meds from an IOP? OR, does that mean if we want more than a 90 day supply thats when we need a script only if its for more than for a personal supply? I'm speaking in regards to meds like valium or codeine.

The thing that confused me is if you HAVE A SCRIPT what the hell is the point of saying you can only import a 90 day supply with a REAL 100% legal script? Thats why (as stupid as it may be) Im thinking it is legal to order w/out a script meds from IOPS AS LONG as your not ordering more than 3 month supplies at a time.

Common sense is telling me you need a script for anything despite whether its for personal use or for a year supply. I just dont undertand why if youve seen a doc and have a script that your limited to importing for more than "persal use". I mean if you have the paperwork, whats the deal with the 90 day limit? It makes no sense to me, unless its that you only need a script for orders surpassing the 90 day period.

Another question I have. This is the age of technology, lets face it. When I go to see my shrink he NEVER touches me. We communicate in that law approved setting with our words, and his ability to see me right in front of him.

But in all seriousnes, we should start something where a doctor and patient use a webcam to hold thier appointments. Instead of being 2ft away from each other you communicate on a webcam which will accomplish 100% of exactly what happens when you meet a doc in real life.

(this may me a dumb idea) But we should petition for this to pass as an approved way that docs can script legal presriptions but at the same time can be done completely online. I mean what essential factors are being left out in this situation? NONE that I can think of.
He sees you on the webcam, you can talk to him on the phone and its the same thing as an inperson meeting. So instead of filling out illegal forms and people scripting meds through simple questionairres, why not have like a 10 minute webcam/audio telecast instead of questionairres? and docs can save and document them for records.

How can any possibly argue that this isnt a real doc/patient relationship. Because I hate to be bold, but when I got to see my shrink I sit down in chair, we exhange words for 10 brief mins and he legally scripts a med.
Of course this would require pateints get webcams but they are cheap and how can the law dispute that all the criteria are being met? Your seeing each other face to face (just cant touch each other which never happens anyway when I see my shrink. So I think IOP should develop a method like this, than no more wasting gas, more more wasting time. You just set an appointment online, turn your cams on, discuss your problem for 10 mins and BAM he writes you a script. Kind of like a simulated appointment that still meets all the requirements of the law.
Its just a random stupid idea I had. But it would be really cool if this became the new way to see your doctor. Make an online appointment, turn the cams on, get your script faxed to you from the doc, and your good to go.. or maybe Im just dreaming again. Just seemed like a good idea when I first thought of it, unless its happening already I have been completely blind to the fact.

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#186843 - 05/28/07 01:46 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
Strawberry Online   content
GOLDEN EAGLE
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 4555
Quote:

would anyone know if nubain(nalbuphine hydrochloride)is illegal to obtain online. it is not under a controlled substance and if so where in the us?




As the grand pooh bah, Buston PUP pointed you to a thread, it is required to get a script for what your looking for.

How to use Nubain :
Use Nubain as directed by your doctor. Check the label on the medicine for exact dosing instructions.

Nubain is sometimes used at home as an injection. Before using Nubain , a health care professional will provide detailed instructions for appropriate use of Nubain . Ask any questions that you may have about Nubain or giving injections. I haven't seen it on line though.
good luck

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#186844 - 05/28/07 02:32 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
EDinNC Offline
Threadhead

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 871
The only problem with your webcam idea is that the doc needs to perform a physical (blood pressure, temp, weight, blood tests, etc.)

This could be accomlished remotely but may be cost prohibative. Some firms send a doc or Pa to your house to get the physical. Trust me, they have thought of this before.

Peace

ED

Actually Madison Pain is doing somthing similar.

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#186845 - 07/28/07 01:16 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net?
boltin1 Offline
Banned
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 1124
Loc: Northeast
Quote:

This is the answer given by the DEA (drug Ebforcement Agency) and the USDOJ...

http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/illegal_internet.html

Quote:

Is It Illegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Internet?

For a prescription to be valid under federal and state law, there must be a bona fide doctor patient relationship, which is defined by most state laws to require a physical examination. “Completing a questionnaire that is then reviewed by a doctor hired by the internet pharmacy could not be considered the basis for a doctor/patient relationship.” Vol. 66 Federal Register 82, PP 21181-21184 (April 27, 2001)

Moreover, if the prescription drug is a controlled substance and the drug is being imported into the U.S. from a foreign country and being shipped to anyone other than a DEA-registered importer, such transaction is a felony in violation of Sections 957 and 960 of Title 21, United States Code.








HEY man, I wanted to ask you something, and I couldn't think of a better person to ask since you are the expert here man. In all of the requirements that ROP/OCS's use for you to get a script for a control, tell me if this is one of the requirements; I was told that is was and it makes sense, but it has lead to a disagreement with me and friend right now. Among some of the things that show in your records, for the meds that you are asking for; this particular med MUST be a medication that the Dr. in your records *HAS* given you in the past. So in your records, in the notes for scripts/meds given; lets say you are requesting "hydrocodone", then that must be a script that he/she's written in your chart, at least once, right?

Thanks,
Charles

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#186846 - 07/31/07 11:41 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
Roadhog Offline
Stranger

Registered: 06/11/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Paradise
Do your medical records have to show that you were prescribed the exact thing you are requesting?
The answer is sort of YES. But the doc can prescribe something similar. This is what happened with me. The records showed T4, 60mg codeine. I asked for it, but they gave me hydrocodone 7.5 mg. Similar in strength but different medicine.
You DO need to be sure your records show some Rx for the meds or something very similar. Also helps if records show "history of chronic pain" and the reason for the pain (injury, etc.)
_________________________
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#186847 - 08/02/07 09:29 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net
pixy Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/03/04
Posts: 431
ROP, NROP,s IOP's are all illegal. Anybody heard of someone beating the case lately. You cannot get scheduled meds without seeing the doctor. You cannot buy scheduled meds direcly from the Pharmacy. Nor can you order meds which may be legal somewhere and have them sent here. I've heard all the stories about going to TJ and getting a script from the doctor for 50.00 and bringing back 90 hydros. I've also got a friend at Levenworth Honor Camp for the next thirty six month. You'll be in jail so fast it will make your head spin. You take your chances that's the good and the bad. Ask any attorney if there is a loop hole they will tell you no loop hole they could arrest you any minute for doing business with a ROP. But bottom line most ROP's got stuff that will bring a higher bid price. But all they want is the first hundred clients to turn on the doctor, the Pharms and the Admins they will get a pass. IOP's is a balloon that has got to break some day soon. There is just too much chatter and the air of everything is legal. Prepare for it the day isn't long off. Find a attorney and bondsman you can keep on retainer. That is the smart thing to do. If you think I'm kidding ask an attorney I've been doing alot of that lately and it sucXX. Think about this no illegal search and seizure, not probable cause, could be wire fraud because you used the phone to commit a crime. It ain't pretty and if you think it's legal your wrong. You seen all those pretty blue coats outside YOD. They were supposed to be rock solid all I got to show from YOD is the Feds now have a great copy of my records and HIPPA doesn't cover it if you were using your records to commit a crime. Don't be naive you get busted you have no rights. Oh I almost forgot your looking at three to five state unless it's Texas. Possible probation if you snitch. The Feds won't waste there time on you, just the Doc, Pharm, and Admins,

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#537007 - 08/04/07 07:40 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: pixy]
raini Offline
Stranger

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 4
i didnt understand your last sentence...your looking at 3-5 states? feds wonts waste time on you if you snitch?? u mean they wnt to bust the doc and pharmacys? can u explain it all?? thanks

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#537045 - 08/04/07 09:28 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: raini]
joebend Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 709
And.....what do you mean by "unless it's Texas"?
Thanks

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#537272 - 08/05/07 05:29 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: joebend]
hanah Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 413
After reading this thread from beginning, I am now wondering. The way I am reading this, if anyone fills a controlled script at any pharmacy and the state we live in has a pmp, The fill is reported to the dea and then is sent to the pmp of that state. Or does every pharmacy report to the state the recipient lives in.

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#537430 - 08/06/07 06:10 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: pixy]
lorik920 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 155
Loc: Mass
Hi pixy, I understand you've been getting advice from lawyers and they are telling you this is illegal but my question is how you can explain why all these ROP's are still in business? They have addresses, phone numbers, etc. and their websites clearly state what they offer and for how much. If this is so highly illegal then why do you think the DEA would allow them to continue their business? The purpose of sending in records are because you HAVE seen a doctor and you are getting meds that that doctor recommended for you, just from a different source. I can see some cases where it could be illegal, IOP's especially. But you included ROP's and I take offense to that because I work hard to provide my ROP with the necessary documentation so that we both stay in the boundaries of the law while trying to obtain the necessary meds for my nedical condition.

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#537433 - 08/06/07 06:27 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: lorik920]
hanah Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 413
Lorik - I agree with you on that. Don't want to be ugly to pixy but the thing is, I work hard to do the same I think a lot of people on this board do too. I know some are addicts and may not really need the meds but come on, for the most part, most of us on this board are really in need of the relief. There are bad apples in every group but the good outweighs the bad.

As for it being totally illegal, It isnt totally illegal, or Lorik is right they would be gone, gone gone. My oppinion is, the ones that have been shut down are the ones who where doing massive consults with an online questionaire for sign up. I read that if the physician is doing any type of business online such as having a website even, that this puts them in an online medicine category, and doesnt look good. I think the ones who are providing face to face visits are doing the right thing and I think all the true pain patients will be okay once they see the doc face to face and are examined. The ones who really do not need it may have a problem because I dont think any of these places are going to give meds to someone who doesnt clearly have chronic pain.

Sorry this is so long.

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#537545 - 08/06/07 10:41 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: hanah]
hanah Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 12/13/05
Posts: 413
Did anyone have an answer to what the previous post meant by "unless its texas"?

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#546671 - 08/21/07 04:39 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: willys]
blackhawk Offline
Newbie

Registered: 05/19/07
Posts: 25
false info would just give the dea a reason to knock on your door......

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#589677 - 10/29/07 01:19 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: aliceellen1]
toe Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 812
Loc: MidWest USA
 Originally Posted By: aliceellen1



Federal law requires that "A prescription for a controlled substance to be effective must be issued for a legitimate medical purpose by an individual practitioner acting in the usual course of his professional practice" (21 CFR 1306.04(a)).



How is this ambiguous?
_________________________
"It's the end of the World as We Know it. . ." -REM "and I'm seeking asylum in Canada"-toe

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#589687 - 10/29/07 02:19 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: storyteller]
ross78240 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/26/07
Posts: 211
 Originally Posted By: storyteller
If a site goes down, what happens to the names of the the people who ordered from that site?


Your information is sold to other OCS companies so they can spam email (or call) you offers for thier services. They may also have your questionare you filled out when you signed up with medical information. If the OCS is raided by the DEA they have your information and will review it.
It's the dirty little secret about the OCS businesses.

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#591515 - 10/31/07 05:25 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: willys]
gregg1077 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/19/06
Posts: 139
In 3 years... i only had one hold up @ JFK... and i ordered many many times. The shipper just re-shipped, and i got it in 10 days.
I think people make to big a deal of this.

The chances of getting your pack opened 2 times in a row... are , well....

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#597220 - 11/12/07 01:29 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: blackhawk]
mikeydog13 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 6
Hey, all,

I have been ordering hydrocodone from the net for about three years now.

I have just started methadone maintanence therapy for my addiction to hydrocodone and all I can say is good riddance to all these compaines that screw us over and take advantage of our pain and situations.

Is it illegal to order over the net? Well, it might be legal according to the letter of the law, but it sure does not seem ethical to me. Now, I'm not getting down on anyone who orders over the net, as I sure have done my share of it over the last three years. But, c'mon, I know and everyone else who uses these servies must know they really don't give a rat's butt about us. If they did, why would they be charging this exhorinant prices? And, then treating us bad if the system breaks down and they can't get the meds to us.

If is was ethical, why all the problems that keep going on? In my opinion, these companies are keeping one step ahead of the law by finding loopholes to keep on going.

Has anyone ever checked on some of these docs who are doing the online consulations? I have recently. No upstanding doctor is going to risk his or her license by precribing shecdule III and IV drugs to a person they have never seen. One can easily check out these docs histories at the DEA website. It made me sick to realize that the people I was entrusting my life to were doctors who had been suspended by hospitals and lost privalages for unethical practices. Oh, and then the few who had child molestation charges against them. And I have been putting money in their pockets! Think about it!!! Do you really think these companies and these doctors care???? No, they just feed on our pain and addictions and laugh all the way to the bank!

I am so thankful that I chose to address my issues and seek help somewhere else because it is obvious that the whole precarious internet pharmacy situation is about to come down. Some of you might get mad at me for speaking my mind. But I was a fool like everyone else and spent a ton of mony through these sites for several years. Ive very familiar with the anxiety of wondering when the doctor was going to call, if my refill was going to go through, if the company was even still around for that refill.

Oh, and why compain about "doctors not treating pain". The DEA has made it hard for most doctors to adequately treat pain; don't blame the doctors.

Wake up everybody! Quit letting these online consulation companies and online pharmacies rule your life and take your money.

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#597224 - 11/12/07 01:44 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
sam001 Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 02/03/04
Posts: 212
Loc: Nordstroms
Mikeydog,

Interesting comments. I had always assumed the online docs were not head of their class at Harvard, but I had no idea many were that close to the bottom of the barrel.

You gave me something to think about.

Good luck to you with your methadone treatment.

Sam

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#597225 - 11/12/07 01:47 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: blackhawk]
mikeydog13 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 6
Let's all answer this questions ourselves!

If you go into a brick and mortar doctors office seeing medical care do you question yourself "is this legal or not?". The very fact that we wonder and have always wondered if this is illegal or not is because we know deep down inside that that purchasing controlled meds over the internet is wrong! So what if the companies are in business, have adresses, web sites, etc. How many companines have been busted over the years? They are willing to take the risk because there is such big money in it for them. Think about all the internet pharmacies and online consultation companies that have been shut down. They are being shut down becuase they are engaged in illegal activity! Do you have any ideas how much money these companies are making off of us????

Belive me, I'm not bashing anyone on this board. I let myself be used by these companies for a long time because I was desperate for pain control, which then turned into an addiction. It got to the point where I was spending over $300 for a consult and 60 vicoprofen. 60! It would cost half of that at a regular doctors. The mere fact that these companies take advantage of our desperation alone should be illegal and tells us exactly what kind of people we are dealing with.

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#597226 - 11/12/07 01:47 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
tigersmom Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5306
Loc: in Rationality
Mikey, You are welcome to speak your mind of course. I am assuming that you are an adult, and as an adult you must know that YOU are responsible for your own actions. The OCS didn't twist your arm to use their service, or pay their prices...YOU DID IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL! I personally want to be the one responsible for my medical care, NOT the Nanny Government. If I feel that I have a problem then I'll seek treatment as you apparently have.

"Think about it!!! Do you really think these companies and these doctors care???? No, they just feed on our pain and addictions and laugh all the way to the bank!"

I have a question for you then: do you really think that the HMOS that so many of us get our medical care from "care" about us either? Medical Care in this country is run as a capitalist enterprise my friend, and "caring" doesn't have a thing to do with it; the bottom line, whether an ROP, or an HMO is the almighty dollar. The only person that should be "caring" about what medical treatment I get is me, IMHO.
_________________________
"You just knew when you were younger that 50 was old. But it could be worse. I could be dead.--Carrie Fisher"

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#597239 - 11/12/07 02:05 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: tigersmom]
mikeydog13 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 6
Obiviously I am taking responsiblity for my own actions, or I would not have chosen to do something about it. I don't lay blame on others for what I have chosen to do. I just finally woke up to the insanity of what I have chosen to do for the last three years. Obviously I also struck a deep chord with tigersmom who would making such as immature statement as "the OCS didn't twist my arm to use there services". Tigersmom, deep down you must know what we are doing and what these companies are doing is wrong. If you want to let the OCS continue to take advantage of you, that is your choice. As usual when one speaks their mind on drugbuyers.com and makes an opinion that is not shared by the majority, there will always be those posting that immediately take offense and get their feelings hurt.

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#597242 - 11/12/07 02:15 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
tango5 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 619
I also always assumed these were Dr.s who either were out of the country or couldn't get a practice going.
I do have one very good experience with one and I will never forget it.
I've been through thousands of tests for chest and back pain with numbness. Seen tons of specialists. Been scared out of my mind hearing my Dr. say over and over, year after year, this could be MS with no proof from any test than one online Dr. hit it right on the head.
During my consult with the Dr. he said he strongly believed this was something called intercostal neuralgia.
I looked it up right away and he's right!! Every symptom fits and knowing what you have helps relieve some of the stress of chronic pain. I will thank him always! Some Dr.s no matter what there situations is are good at diagnosing or not.
I am going to look up this Dr. and all others though since that's just good idea, thanks. :0)
Can someone please PM me and tell me where spell check is? I can't find it.
Thanks.

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#597304 - 11/12/07 04:31 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
tigersmom Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5306
Loc: in Rationality
 Originally Posted By: mikeydog13
Obiviously I am taking responsiblity for my own actions, or I would not have chosen to do something about it. I don't lay blame on others for what I have chosen to do. I just finally woke up to the insanity of what I have chosen to do for the last three years. Obviously I also struck a deep chord with tigersmom who would making such as immature statement as "the OCS didn't twist my arm to use there services". Tigersmom, deep down you must know what we are doing and what these companies are doing is wrong. If you want to let the OCS continue to take advantage of you, that is your choice. As usual when one speaks their mind on drugbuyers.com and makes an opinion that is not shared by the majority, there will always be those posting that immediately take offense and get their feelings hurt.



Mikey who is the sensitive one, me or you...lol! You know what I feel "deep down" Mikey? I feel that I need to make my own decision on what is good or not good for me; so yes, I will continue to let my ROP "take advantage" of me until I don't need to or want to use their service, and should I stop using them, or need to go into rehab because I LOST CONTROL, I certainly won't come on a website called "DRUGBUYERS" to whine about how the evil OCS and their Doctor's don't care about me. Boo Hoo Mikey, that sound that you hear is the world's smallest violin.
_________________________
"You just knew when you were younger that 50 was old. But it could be worse. I could be dead.--Carrie Fisher"

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#597371 - 11/12/07 06:53 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: tigersmom]
mikeydog13 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 6
Gee, tigersmom,

Why in the world did you take my post so personally?

I'm talking about my own experiences and my feelings as a consumer of OCS for the past three years. I'm talking about my perspective of them, etc.

Out of all the people on drugbuyers.com, you alone chose to take my post personally and got angry about it. Sorry, but it makes me wonder what deep issue you must be dealing with about the comments I made. Everyone who posts on drugbuyers.com does not have to have a rose-colored view of OCS.

I wish everyone on drugbuyers the best. Best of luck...it looks like the days of OCS and online pharmacies are numbered. Might want to start making alternative plans. I just canceled a refil with countymeds that I would have gotten if I had chosen to wait indefinately. That is, if I had gotten what I ordered. From what I understand, they have been sending darvocet in place of hydrocodone.

And yes, we are letting these companies take advantage of our desperation. Some of us are mature enough to recognize when we have been had.

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#597378 - 11/12/07 07:21 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
toolboy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Somewhere, But Not Here.
This is always an interesting topic, and it sounds like there might be a flame war brewing here. I think that those of us who have chosen to use OCS go in knowing a couple of things we can ALL agree on:

1. The internet pharmacy business runs on the fringe of legality and of ethics. I am not saying they are illegal, but the law is attempting to catch up with the fruits of the "information age." Any transaction on the internet has risk attached to it.

2. We have decided to take our health care and more importantly "pain management" into our own hands as we all have many and varied tales of how traditional health care delivery has kept us in the lurch or underserved

3. We agree to the stress, the uncertainty, and the high prices of our chosing OCS's.

4. The providers (OCS) are filling a nitch in the market, and supply and demand Rules apply. We willingly comply as our choices are few.

5. We all tke the risk of dependence issues as the doctors rely on US to inform them of our needs. That is, we are big boys and girls, we want to be in charge, the doc's let us, and we need to live with the consequesnces.

6. The ethics of the doctors and OCS are their problem and issue, not ours. They enter the marketplace, licensed, and willing to provide what they advertise. Perhaps they are not the best of the best, but have you checked into WHO is driving your kid's school bus? You may be shocked to know. As consumers we must discern on our own, assess risk, and make informed choices.

7. There will always be some among us who abuse the system, whether doc's, providers or patients, making it tough on the legitimate users.

This is obviously a short list. Feel free to add to it. We know the game and its Rules before or as we go in to it: "Let the buyer beware."


Edited by toolboy (11/12/07 07:25 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
..I'd sell my soul, my self-esteem, a dollar at a time; for one taste, one kiss, one taste of you my Magdalena...

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#597430 - 11/12/07 09:30 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: toolboy]
gabie Offline
Veteran

Registered: 11/09/02
Posts: 552
Loc: The boonies of Texas
Toolboy,
that was the most well said summation that I was in such awe that I read it three times. I think some boys from CA have put much more thought into this than these girls in TX.
That being said, I would add one more:

8. It utimately always has been the responsability (legality wise) of a) the doctor b) the pharmacy c) the OCS and d) the consumer in that order.

I'm not saying that heaven forbid a sting take place, it's just that I feel that would be the order of indictments.
After a, b, c, do you really think the thousands in section
d need to do a lot of worrying as you have well stated that these people have the most legitamate need for this whole operation Just MHO
gabie

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#597561 - 11/13/07 07:09 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: gabie]
tigersmom Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5306
Loc: in Rationality
Toolboy well done! Mikey, I don't give a ratt's patootie about you posting what you think, nor do I take it personally, I'm sorry that you construed me pointing out that you were a big boy when you ordered from these people as a personal attack; what really rubbed me the wrong way was your asseration that the OCS has some obligation to "care" about us. They run a business for profit and we all know this. I am truly sorry that YOU had a problem with them, however, DB is NOT a recovery forum. The bulk of the membership here hardly need reminding that one can get carried away with ordering from these places, so I hardly think that your post will change any minds on the subject (although I DO understand that you need to vent), but again, this is just my opinion, and is not meant to "flame". Just consider me a big fan of rational thinking.
_________________________
"You just knew when you were younger that 50 was old. But it could be worse. I could be dead.--Carrie Fisher"

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#598135 - 11/13/07 07:39 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: tigersmom]
mikeydog13 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 6
Well, apparently, tigersmom, you gave a ratt's patootie about something concerning my posting or you would not have expended so much engergy ranting about my posting.

FYI, Miss rationalality, I never stated nor implied that OCS had to care about us...again, you must have an unconsious issue you are dealing with. I'm still trying to figure out what made you so angry about my post. I guess you just felt like abusing someone today.

I believe I have a right to post whatever I want regarding any issue I want on drugbuyers.com as I was a conusumer of OCS for several years. As well, I can share my experiences with others who might be considering ordering from OCS. Um, this is a forum for those looking for OCS, is it not??

Here's the bottom line. Perhaps as grand pooh-bah you have too much time on your hands and feel a need to police all the posts that are made on drugbuyers and chastise those that "rub you the wrong way". Guess what? You are a grand poh-bah because you had so much time on your hands to make such an astonomical amount of posts, not because anyone elected you to police this site. That's what the administrators are for. I can just imagine it - all those posts chastising people for not thinking like you do!!!

As well, miss rationality, I am not a man! What made you assume I was? Mikey13????

Finally, I think it is hilarious that I have gotten you so riled up that the first thing you did early this morning was post a reply to me. You will be wasting your time with any further posts because I WILL NOT BE BACK ON DRUGBUYERS.COM!!!! The few times I have posted on this site I have gotten a backlash because I speak the truth, and it is hard for some people to acept the truth.

Good day and good riddance.

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#598143 - 11/13/07 07:52 PM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
toolboy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Somewhere, But Not Here.
Come now mikeydog, things are not that personal here. Tigersmon started to tone down the rhetoric, and there is no reason for you not to either. Not my battle to fight but we all want the same thing here.

There is a difference between the truth, and inflammatory words. Your dismissal of this site speaks volumes of how you expect people to treat each other.

I disagree with a lot of people on this board, and they disagree with me as well. I have never had to make it personal. I have not needed to get personal to make my point or be heard here and most here don't. I hope you find peace and your future is filled with joy. I mean that seriously. We are all human and will ultimately be judged on our ability to love and be compassionate.

And to Gabie: Go Texas, I love that State!
_________________________
..I'd sell my soul, my self-esteem, a dollar at a time; for one taste, one kiss, one taste of you my Magdalena...

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#598389 - 11/14/07 08:30 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: toolboy]
mikeydog13 Offline
Stranger

Registered: 02/27/07
Posts: 6
Thanks, toolboy, for your constructive criticism.

If you go back to the beginning of tigersmom posts you can see how downright nasty and dirty they were - a very personal and, in my opinon, unjustified attack to my posting. So, yes, I got angry and nasty. Actually, I felt bad morning about the things I posted in reply to her tirade against me. But, c'mom, if my post "rubbed her the wrong way" I'm sure she could have posted her feelings in a more appropriate manner. There really was no reason to launch an all out attack on me because she did not agree with me.

The thread of these posts is in regards to a question of the legality of buying meds online. My response was that I do not feel that it is legal, etc, and just posted my feelings as a long-time consumer of OCS.

I do not feel that it was justified to have such ugly remarks made to me by tigersmom because she inferred certain things about my posting. It was like she was so offended about my objection to OCS that she jumped on me personally. I mean, c'mon , from the beginning she was extrmely ugly.

To use this forum does not mean that one has to agree with everything on it. It is more than my right to post my experiences with OCS and to state how I really feel about them!!

Now, as an expample, toolboy, I take no offense at your criticism of my postings. You are doing it in a very constructive, adult manner, not meant to put me on the defensive. Please refer to tigersmom reply to my initial post and you can plaining see how inappropriate her response to me was.

Thanks for wishing me luck and I truly do believe that you mean it. I just really feel that I have the right to state what I feel about OCS so that someone considering using them for the first time can have an objective opinion of the downsides of them. I, nor anyone on this board, should have their views censored.

Good luck to all!

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#598403 - 11/14/07 09:11 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: tigersmom]
tigersmom Offline
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5306
Loc: in Rationality
 Quote:
"If you go back to the beginning of tigersmom posts you can see how downright nasty and dirty they were - a very personal and, in my opinon, unjustified attack to my posting."


 Originally Posted By: tigersmom
Here is my inital post:Mikey, You are welcome to speak your mind of course. I am assuming that you are an adult, and as an adult you must know that YOU are responsible for your own actions. The OCS didn't twist your arm to use their service, or pay their prices...YOU DID IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL! I personally want to be the one responsible for my medical care, NOT the Nanny Government. If I feel that I have a problem then I'll seek treatment as you apparently have.

"Think about it!!! Do you really think these companies and these doctors care???? No, they just feed on our pain and addictions and laugh all the way to the bank!"

I have a question for you then: do you really think that the HMOS that so many of us get our medical care from "care" about us either? Medical Care in this country is run as a capitalist enterprise my friend, and "caring" doesn't have a thing to do with it; the bottom line, whether an ROP, or an HMO is the almighty dollar. The only person that should be "caring" about what medical treatment I get is me, IMHO.


I challenge anyone here to tell me exactly how voicing my opinon of her post was inflamatory, and or ugly? This post set HER off, NOT the other way around. She made some statements about using the OCS that I felt were not quite true and i believe I answered her in a rational manner; we all know that she dosen't think so, but if anyone can point out anything I've written in this post as being too "personal" I'll certainly apologize.
_________________________
"You just knew when you were younger that 50 was old. But it could be worse. I could be dead.--Carrie Fisher"

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#598406 - 11/14/07 09:15 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: mikeydog13]
chevi Offline
Member

Registered: 12/13/06
Posts: 101
Loc: N.W. Pa.
Hi to all ~ I usually post on the VIP sd. but it always seems to have more info here than there...anyway, can some 1 help me out w/finding a place for hydro's. I'm in severe chronic back pain/pain doc just up & left/have recrd's. but on ss dsblty. so that leaves me w/little incmn. I try to sit/type/read post's as long as possible but now I'm @ my wits end. Any help to point me in the right direction would be so appreciated. Thanks every 1!

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#598473 - 11/14/07 11:11 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: chevi]
toolboy Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 567
Loc: Somewhere, But Not Here.
 Originally Posted By: chevi
Hi to all ~ I usually post on the VIP sd. but it always seems to have more info here than there...anyway, can some 1 help me out w/finding a place for hydro's. I'm in severe chronic back pain/pain doc just up & left/have recrd's. but on ss dsblty. so that leaves me w/little incmn. I try to sit/type/read post's as long as possible but now I'm @ my wits end. Any help to point me in the right direction would be so appreciated. Thanks every 1!


Chevi: Not sure if you have records or not. If you have records I would recommend 2 sources from the US List:

UltraWebMeds: They are new, and seem to be keeping people happy with FAST service. I have not used them. If I needed an ROP, I would use them.

Consults Direct: I have used them and like them. You consult with them and they will send you a paper prescription (called a Direct Script) that comes from a Florida doc. Check with your local pharmacy to see if they will fill one, first.

If you do not have records, your alternative is an off-shore IOP. Again, I have not used them, there is some risk, but if you read up on IOP's on this board, you will know what you are in for. Names that pop-up that people use are: feelfreedom.org, fillinghealthy.com, and drug-central.com. They sell hydro, not cheap, but others have deemed the product good. I cannot vouch for any of the IOP's, so good luck.
_________________________
..I'd sell my soul, my self-esteem, a dollar at a time; for one taste, one kiss, one taste of you my Magdalena...

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#598478 - 11/14/07 11:20 AM Re: Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net [Re: tigersmom]
nico Offline
Banned. Very offensive and rude posts
GRAND Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 2757
Loc: TURN THE [censored] AROUND
Tigers was talking about HMO's, that sets me off every time This subject is beat to death, I mean everything that is illegal is not necessarily morally wrong in every case anyway. There is post-conventional morality. If you feel like you are doing wrong, stop doing it. I believe 100% that the DEA, the FBI, the county boys and the FDA probably think it's wrong. I don't really care. The Dept. of Agriculture, maybe.
_________________________
Cogito ergo sum

POW MIA You Are Not Forgotten
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/


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