Gee, tigersmom,

Why in the world did you take my post so personally?

I'm talking about my own experiences and my feelings as a consumer of OCS for the past three years. I'm talking about my perspective of them, etc.

Out of all the people on drugbuyers.com, you alone chose to take my post personally and got angry about it. Sorry, but it makes me wonder what deep issue you must be dealing with about the comments I made. Everyone who posts on drugbuyers.com does not have to have a rose-colored view of OCS.

I wish everyone on drugbuyers the best. Best of luck...it looks like the days of OCS and online pharmacies are numbered. Might want to start making alternative plans. I just canceled a refil with countymeds that I would have gotten if I had chosen to wait indefinately. That is, if I had gotten what I ordered. From what I understand, they have been sending darvocet in place of hydrocodone.

And yes, we are letting these companies take advantage of our desperation. Some of us are mature enough to recognize when we have been had.

This is always an interesting topic, and it sounds like there might be a flame war brewing here. I think that those of us who have chosen to use OCS go in knowing a couple of things we can ALL agree on:

1. The internet pharmacy business runs on the fringe of legality and of ethics. I am not saying they are illegal, but the law is attempting to catch up with the fruits of the "information age." Any transaction on the internet has risk attached to it.

2. We have decided to take our health care and more importantly "pain management" into our own hands as we all have many and varied tales of how traditional health care delivery has kept us in the lurch or underserved

3. We agree to the stress, the uncertainty, and the high prices of our chosing OCS's.

4. The providers (OCS) are filling a nitch in the market, and supply and demand Rules apply. We willingly comply as our choices are few.

5. We all tke the risk of dependence issues as the doctors rely on US to inform them of our needs. That is, we are big boys and girls, we want to be in charge, the doc's let us, and we need to live with the consequesnces.

6. The ethics of the doctors and OCS are their problem and issue, not ours. They enter the marketplace, licensed, and willing to provide what they advertise. Perhaps they are not the best of the best, but have you checked into WHO is driving your kid's school bus? You may be shocked to know. As consumers we must discern on our own, assess risk, and make informed choices.

7. There will always be some among us who abuse the system, whether doc's, providers or patients, making it tough on the legitimate users.

This is obviously a short list. Feel free to add to it. We know the game and its Rules before or as we go in to it: "Let the buyer beware."

Toolboy,
that was the most well said summation that I was in such awe that I read it three times. I think some boys from CA have put much more thought into this than these girls in TX.
That being said, I would add one more:

8. It utimately always has been the responsability (legality wise) of a) the doctor b) the pharmacy c) the OCS and d) the consumer in that order.

I'm not saying that heaven forbid a sting take place, it's just that I feel that would be the order of indictments.
After a, b, c, do you really think the thousands in section
d need to do a lot of worrying as you have well stated that these people have the most legitamate need for this whole operation Just MHO
gabie

Toolboy well done! Mikey, I don't give a ratt's patootie about you posting what you think, nor do I take it personally, I'm sorry that you construed me pointing out that you were a big boy when you ordered from these people as a personal attack; what really rubbed me the wrong way was your asseration that the OCS has some obligation to "care" about us. They run a business for profit and we all know this. I am truly sorry that YOU had a problem with them, however, DB is NOT a recovery forum. The bulk of the membership here hardly need reminding that one can get carried away with ordering from these places, so I hardly think that your post will change any minds on the subject (although I DO understand that you need to vent), but again, this is just my opinion, and is not meant to "flame". Just consider me a big fan of rational thinking.

Well, apparently, tigersmom, you gave a ratt's patootie about something concerning my posting or you would not have expended so much engergy ranting about my posting.

FYI, Miss rationalality, I never stated nor implied that OCS had to care about us...again, you must have an unconsious issue you are dealing with. I'm still trying to figure out what made you so angry about my post. I guess you just felt like abusing someone today.

I believe I have a right to post whatever I want regarding any issue I want on drugbuyers.com as I was a conusumer of OCS for several years. As well, I can share my experiences with others who might be considering ordering from OCS. Um, this is a forum for those looking for OCS, is it not??

Here's the bottom line. Perhaps as grand pooh-bah you have too much time on your hands and feel a need to police all the posts that are made on drugbuyers and chastise those that "rub you the wrong way". Guess what? You are a grand poh-bah because you had so much time on your hands to make such an astonomical amount of posts, not because anyone elected you to police this site. That's what the administrators are for. I can just imagine it - all those posts chastising people for not thinking like you do!!!

As well, miss rationality, I am not a man! What made you assume I was? Mikey13????

Finally, I think it is hilarious that I have gotten you so riled up that the first thing you did early this morning was post a reply to me. You will be wasting your time with any further posts because I WILL NOT BE BACK ON DRUGBUYERS.COM!!!! The few times I have posted on this site I have gotten a backlash because I speak the truth, and it is hard for some people to acept the truth.

Good day and good riddance.

Come now mikeydog, things are not that personal here. Tigersmon started to tone down the rhetoric, and there is no reason for you not to either. Not my battle to fight but we all want the same thing here.

There is a difference between the truth, and inflammatory words. Your dismissal of this site speaks volumes of how you expect people to treat each other.

I disagree with a lot of people on this board, and they disagree with me as well. I have never had to make it personal. I have not needed to get personal to make my point or be heard here and most here don't. I hope you find peace and your future is filled with joy. I mean that seriously. We are all human and will ultimately be judged on our ability to love and be compassionate.

And to Gabie: Go Texas, I love that State!

Thanks, toolboy, for your constructive criticism.

If you go back to the beginning of tigersmom posts you can see how downright nasty and dirty they were - a very personal and, in my opinon, unjustified attack to my posting. So, yes, I got angry and nasty. Actually, I felt bad morning about the things I posted in reply to her tirade against me. But, c'mom, if my post "rubbed her the wrong way" I'm sure she could have posted her feelings in a more appropriate manner. There really was no reason to launch an all out attack on me because she did not agree with me.

The thread of these posts is in regards to a question of the legality of buying meds online. My response was that I do not feel that it is legal, etc, and just posted my feelings as a long-time consumer of OCS.

I do not feel that it was justified to have such ugly remarks made to me by tigersmom because she inferred certain things about my posting. It was like she was so offended about my objection to OCS that she jumped on me personally. I mean, c'mon , from the beginning she was extrmely ugly.

To use this forum does not mean that one has to agree with everything on it. It is more than my right to post my experiences with OCS and to state how I really feel about them!!

Now, as an expample, toolboy, I take no offense at your criticism of my postings. You are doing it in a very constructive, adult manner, not meant to put me on the defensive. Please refer to tigersmom reply to my initial post and you can plaining see how inappropriate her response to me was.

Thanks for wishing me luck and I truly do believe that you mean it. I just really feel that I have the right to state what I feel about OCS so that someone considering using them for the first time can have an objective opinion of the downsides of them. I, nor anyone on this board, should have their views censored.

Good luck to all!

I challenge anyone here to tell me exactly how voicing my opinon of her post was inflamatory, and or ugly? This post set HER off, NOT the other way around. She made some statements about using the OCS that I felt were not quite true and i believe I answered her in a rational manner; we all know that she dosen't think so, but if anyone can point out anything I've written in this post as being too "personal" I'll certainly apologize.

Hi to all ~ I usually post on the VIP sd. but it always seems to have more info here than there...anyway, can some 1 help me out w/finding a place for hydro's. I'm in severe chronic back pain/pain doc just up & left/have recrd's. but on ss dsblty. so that leaves me w/little incmn. I try to sit/type/read post's as long as possible but now I'm @ my wits end. Any help to point me in the right direction would be so appreciated. Thanks every 1!

Chevi: Not sure if you have records or not. If you have records I would recommend 2 sources from the US List:

UltraWebMeds: They are new, and seem to be keeping people happy with FAST service. I have not used them. If I needed an ROP, I would use them.

Consults Direct: I have used them and like them. You consult with them and they will send you a paper prescription (called a Direct Script) that comes from a Florida doc. Check with your local pharmacy to see if they will fill one, first.

If you do not have records, your alternative is an off-shore IOP. Again, I have not used them, there is some risk, but if you read up on IOP's on this board, you will know what you are in for. Names that pop-up that people use are: feelfreedom.org, fillinghealthy.com, and drug-central.com. They sell hydro, not cheap, but others have deemed the product good. I cannot vouch for any of the IOP's, so good luck.

Tigers was talking about HMO's, that sets me off every time This subject is beat to death, I mean everything that is illegal is not necessarily morally wrong in every case anyway. There is post-conventional morality. If you feel like you are doing wrong, stop doing it. I believe 100% that the DEA, the FBI, the county boys and the FDA probably think it's wrong. I don't really care. The Dept. of Agriculture, maybe.

As far as illegality goes, clearly some states are moving to shore up the "loopholes" that have allowed the OCS to continue to operate; AZ is the latest state to pass a law that makes it clear with no exceptions that it is illegal to order Drugs online for delivery in AZ. Until my state passes such a law, I believe that I am not breaking any statutes.

I have worked at medical clinics (I'm an Accountant) off and on for many years and I can tell you that even the Doctor's that you see at your Brick and Mortar Family Practice have issues

I think each person has to be responsible for the monitoring and usage of any medical care and/or prescriptions. A Doctor is someone who takes the information you provide them with (history, previous medical records), does some tests and comes up with a theory based upon their own past experiences and education.

You would be surprised at how different each Doctor's opinion could be if they were each presented the same case.

It all boils down to the consumer educating themselves through research and what is best for them.

Mikeydog, it is easy to point out what others are doing wrong when you no longer need the service.

FYI, my sister has been on methadone for years, it is a HORRIBLE drug to get off of, some say you can never stop, be prepared.

Cath

Thanks so much toolboy, as I stated I do have recrd's but w/just a dsblty. check as only incmn. I'm inclined to go the IOP route. I have ck'd out some sites (yes, expensive) but I just want to avoid all the BS w/sending in rcrd's. etc. I don't like the idea of having a script sent to me-too afarid phrmsct. won't fill. I've heard of 'carepills'? - can't find their site. I also heard about usmedsonln...anyboby have feedback on those? Thanks Again!

As the events with MPC have re-reinforced, the answer is pretty clearly "NO".

I'm clearly in the dark here. What is MPC?
Also, why is it that most won't ship to certain states, but a few still will? Seems to me either it's legal or it's not, so why would they risk it if it's not?

Would getting the script mailed service be better than the pills shipped?

Please give opinions. If you have a script that is mailed and you pay COD when the script arrives, you take it to your local pharmacy and with most, I think, you are given 2 fills (+ the initial) so that way, you know you are "safe" for 3 months, right? I see mailing the paper scripts being easier, because of that. You are not giving out your credit card, you pay upon delivery.

What do you guys/gals think?

I've never used direct script but the point you make about being "safe" for 3 months seems valid. No running behind getting orders out, etc. The only potential problem may be finding someone to fill it. I've read that some have had trouble, while others have not.

I have called around already because I think this is the route I am wanting to take, and WalMart, CVS & a few more around me will accept out of state scripts, so maybe that would be a good means for me.

So does that mean a phone consultation is not a patient doctor relationship and it's illegal to buy pain meds online?

I've been trying to find out info on a company I ordered pain meds off of in August and I haven't received them yet. I heard that they were having issues with the DEA and shipping but I don't quite understand what the problem is. I'd appreciate any help I can get from anyone. I thank you in advance.

I don't know who you ordered from, but if it's been since August, then obviously that's not good. Could be they've gone out of business. I'd definately try to cancel my order and look for another place.

I did the direct script route and it's really worked well for me. Good luck!

Yes this is totally depend from where you order and practically it matters when you receive at what place...In few Asian country you can have it without any prescription !!!

Your claim that doctors cannot perscribe 3 month (and sometimes even over) supplies is simply innacurate . SWIM (someone who isn't me) is perscribed dexedrine for his ADHD. He cannot physically go to see his doctor more often than, say, 3 times a year, as he is rarely in town. Thus, his doctor simply perscribes him a higher (much higher) per day dosage so that his "1 month refill" will actually last him for 4. This guy that I know (who is not me) receives upwards of 270 dexedrines per visit... 90 for his "necessary 6 tablets a day" as an in-office written perscription, and 180 more through the mail-in procedure that the OP described. And yes, his insurance covers it. Understanding doctors can and will do this, as it is their decision what daily dosage is appropriate for their patient. Next time you're at your doctor getting a routine checkup for your 1 month supply schedule IIs, give him a legitimate excuse for why you cannot see him for a while (going oversees, going to college out of state, etc), and, if he is not an [censored] and trusts you to be responsible with them, he will help you.

I feel it is worthy to note that Viagra is, in fact, NOT a scheduled substance.

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For a long time it is/was legal for patients to receive a three-month supply of a C-II drug.

Unless the Rules have been changed -- and certain drugs may be excluded, a doctor can write a prescription for a three-month supply of a C-II drug provided he/she writes the diagnosis across the face of the prescription. There may be restrictions that I'm not aware of or, as I mentioned, the Rules could have changed.

In point of fact, very few doctors actually did/do this. Also, it would seem logical for chronic pain patients. Yet, I've never heard of a chronic pain patient being prescribed a three-month supply of OxyContin or Opana ER. So, perhaps the Rule really has changed.

The statement that the DEA has waged war on doctors for a long time is incorrect. Prior to OxyContin, the DEA pretty much had a hands off approach when it came to doctors. The only way they got involved was when a state had suspended/revoked a doctor's license. In that case, the DEA would refuse to renew the doctor's DEA registration (number) until the doctor had worked thing out with the state. But the DEA never targeted doctors for prosecution until a few years after OxyContin came into existence. Such matters were left in the hands of individual states.

I do not agree with the statement that implies that pharmaceutical companies are primarily responsible for keeping pseudoephedrine O-T-C. The sole reason for imposing restrictions on the sale of the drug is to try to curb illicit production of methamphetamine. It should be noted that, although illegal meth labs exist everywhere in the U.S.A., the vast predominance of them are in the Western part of the country. That's why most states in the Northeast didn't even have any restrictions on purchase at the time the federal regulations were imposed. Psedoephedrine is probably the best decongestant on the market. The requirement of forcing purchasers to sign for the drug (and restricting monthly purchase levels) is a genuine attempt to make it more difficult for individuals to obtain large quantities of the substance very easily. Pharma companies had little to do with it. It should be noted that the drug used in O-T-C drugs (phenylephrine) that has been used to replace pseudoephedrine can be combined with another easily obtainable substance to produce methamphetamine. I don't know why this wasn't taken into account. Perhaps it's not that widely known.

Hydrocodone combination drugs have been produced with hydrocodone as high as 15 mg. per pill.

Some doctors who wrote prescriptions for Scheduled drugs, including drugs in Schedule IV and Schedule III did, in fact, lose their licenses, and had to face some jail time.

In the world of telemedicine, things are indeed quite different now than in 2001. There is a great deal more scrutiny now by the DEA than there was then. You are correct that many more NROP's existed at that time, which was a lot safer for patients. As you say, the majority of sites require people who wish to use them to fax medical records, and proof of identity, like licenses. When sending a fax, it is a good idea to increase the size of what you are sending (to make it more readable). When OCS's began requiring people to send medical records, I remember some people posting that this was a terrible idea from the standpoint of the patient. I agree. It has always been mentioned that telemedicine is a "gray" area. Whether I agree or disagree, I would say that since the proprietors of many such operations have been put out of business, I would suggest taking advantage of the fact that medical records and ID can be enlarged before faxing. Enlarging provides the opportunity for changing data on records/ID. If you think that's wrong or illegal, consider the fact that the drug Enforcement Agency considers the whole business illegal. It really doesn't matter whether, in principle, you believe what you are doing is fine because you have a legitimate condition. Practically speaking, I believe that if you deal with such companies, which really only ask for medical records to provide the pretense of legality (which the drug Enforcement Agency will find a way not to accept no matter what), then you should try to keep your medical records confidential.

I agree that the restrictions on drugs should generally be lifted, and that most should be available without prescription. Even more strongly, I agree that what you do with your body, provided you do not physically hurt someone else, is your business, not the government's, nor anybody else's.

I don't know if what I have to say really adds to this subject, but about 2-1/2 years ago I started going to a PM program. As I was in the back getting ready for my first epidural, the nurse received a call from someone saying they ran out of medicine early. The doctor told her to call in their cocktail of anti-withdrawal medicine until it's time for their appointment.

I asked the nurse why everyone has to come in every month. The doctor piped in and said up until a couple of months before that, they didn't. He said patients were abusing the privilege so they made it so you have to go in every month.

I assume, since this clinic prescribes mostly CIIs, that they were either writing a 3 month quantity on one script (360 instead of 120 for example) or either giving them 3 separate prescriptions (dated for the correct date) to be filled at the end of each month. My gut says they were prescribing for 360 at a time, since it's hard to abuse your medicine if you only get it once a month, yes?

And from what I've read on here occasionally, there are doctors out there that still do this. But they are few and far between and the sheer amount of records these doctors keep are crazy. In a matter of 6 months my folder was 4 or 5" thick, I'd had MRI's, CAT scans, EMGs, EKGs, several eipidurals, cortisone shots, Radio Frequency Nerve Ablation, etc. etc.

I believe they are all in a current "CYA" mode, and that's why you have to get your prescriptions every month. And in the pain contract it says if you miss one appointment they assume you must not be in pain if you don't need your medicine that month, and they drop you.

It's a shame. Would have made life much easier not to drive 40 minutes each way to spend 5 minutes with the doctor to get my prescriptions, and the next 3 hours finding somewhere to fill them! Getting them written for 3 months would be great, but we all know we have days that are horrendously bad and I could see where you would take more than you needed, thinking "look, I have all these pills!" and then all of the sudden you have a week until your next appointment and no medicine.

It did make me happy that my doctor never allowed those people who ran out early to suffer. He callled in enough anti-withdrawal medicine to cover the person until their next visit (nurse said it was bupe, catapress patches and 1mg Ativan 3x a day, although when I was getting sick off of OPANA, they gave me the stomach medicine Bentyl, catapress and Ativan instead of the bupe).

I agree that some medicines should be OTC. We should still be able to get the Opium tincture we got for our kids when they had diaherra and were throwing up, we whould be able to get low dose codeine and low dose hydrocodone, perhaps with something like 500 mgs of tylenol to try to prevent abuse of the drug.

I also think that stuff like the stomach upset medicine, starts with a P but can't remember what it's called, should be OTC. The one they give when someone is having trouble keeping down a new medicine.(I hate when I forget the name of something). So many days I've watched my kids with horrible stomach aches and sick and wished I could do something, since Pepto Bismol is a joke. I feel useless on those days.

I do feel better that slowly but surely prescription medicines are becoming OTC (thank god for Zantac!) but we need anti-anxiety medicines, pain medicines, and medicines to help with sick stomachs also. We also need a better class of sleep aids on the market. Virtually all of them have the same active ingredient. What's the point of that???

Off my soap box now. But sometimes the US is in the dark ages and sliding further when it comes to stuff like this. We as a country seem like such prudes to other countries, when in reality if you asked a large majority of people they'd absolutely agree that some of those medicines need to be OTC. It's Congress and the HORepresentatives that seem to be the hold up. And maybe nude beaches wouldn't send stupid people running and screaming that it's just not right! Let's pass this Bill! and this Bill! and this Bill! Ugh. Europeans have been doing it forever without a thought, but oh no, take your top off on most of our beaches and see what you get! Other countries seem to trust their people to treat their minor to middle pain on their own, whereas we must run to the doctor and pay their fees and Rx fees to get something that other countries sell for $3 over the counter.

We aren't stupid, but Congress sure thinks we are........

xxx off topic deleted - no more off topic please... the topic of this thread is "Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net" xxx

xxx off topic deleted - no more off topic please... the topic of this thread is "Is It Iegal to Obtain Controlled Substances From the Net" xxx