Tone's post has some great alternatives... i've only tried about half of them but those worked to some degree or another.

Just a note, but IME and from what i've learned from just about everyone I know who i've talked to this about that has been prescribed trazadone for sleep, most if not all complained about horrid nightmares after a few weeks' nightly usage. I know it was enough for me that I preferred insomnia/finding a new med than to have those dreams every night. Not your 'scary monster' or 'I'm falling' type of dream or anything like that, but gruesome & frightening, gory and graphic stuff about people & things in daily life that was worse than the insomnia.

Hope you have good dreams! My personal fix for insomnia right now is 20mg valium (or 2mg xanax or 20 mg Nitrazepam or 2mg clonazepam or 2mg lorazepam or 15 mg restoril or 12 mg bromazepam...), plus 3 mg melatonin, a glass of chocolate milk and listening to Coast to Coast AM very quietly in a dark room.

L

Do you take the melatonin and the xanax together?

Started with 25mg last night as the doc said.. not much different than other nights. I didn't take the whole pill cuz I was afraid of feeling hung-over. I appreciate all your help and now someone is arguing with you - sorry for that. I am no pro but to me taking it with food would seem to make it absorb slower thus stretching out its affects... and that is what I want. As far as the ambien, (the oher person mentioned it was strong) It is strong, but it doesn't last for me. I have no trouble getting to sleep, the ambien is great for that. I need something that is gonna stay in my system and help me sleep for 6 to 8 hours - and hopefully with no hang-over the next morning. I have 3 kids and have to get up at 6am to get them ready for school. I can't be a slow starter in the mornings if you get my drift!!! So, again -- emtp3 and others thanks...

I've used 10mg of timed-release melatonin with some success for five years.That said my drug tolerance is high...my wife takes 6mg.

Dreams are vivid always and "dark" once or twice a month.The primary benefit, for me, is a quick return to sleep from the dozens of awakenings.If I forego dinner or just have a light snack and two glasses of wine, I get 5-6 hours cumulative sleep nightly.

Some drowsiness is present during the day and skin blemishes and itchiness increase.

I would prefer not experimenting with its undocumented long term side effects but I've resisted returning to Valium, Ambien or Halcyon as all were difficult to stop.

kt68,
I have been on Trazodone for a few months now. 100mg 45 mins before bed. Worked like a charm, slept for 12 hours! That was fine during the summer when the kid's were out of school, now that they're back I cut back to 50mg a night since this past Monday. I should have tapered from the 100mg to 75mg to the 50mg because the first 3 nights I was just laying there listening to my husband sleep. But last night I slept a little longer and am hoping I will sleep thru the night until I have to get up at 6:30am to get my 3 kids ready & off to school.
I have taken the Traz on an empty stomach, with a snack, right after a full dinner and I have to say that either taking it with a snack or immediately after dinner does make it kick in better than on an empty stomach. I still have been able to function in the evening to get the kids to bed. I took 50mg around 7pm and it's now 7:45 and I feel my muscles relaxed a bit, I am here typing this with no problems. I have taken it as early as 6pm and been fine in the evening. I am now also going to bed early so I can get the 7-8 hours of full sleep.
I hope this helps you. If you need any help, let me know.

Chamomile tea knocks me the Best Kept off the Board out. Back when I drank it every night, my girlfriend would get upset at me for it. I got so much out of it that I bought a pound of chamomile flowers so I'd never run out.

Regarding melatonin, I don't think it's been proven to not be harmful (or be helpful, actually) when taken in large doses. I've not done much research on it since it was the 'new thing' quite a few years ago, but at that time studies seemed to show that doses as low as .25 mg was more than enough for most people (I got the same from .25mg as I do with 3mg, but I can't find the little ones here), as melatonin is naturally made in your brain (the pineal gland, I believe) so you don't need to add much to trigger it. I do remember reading studies where patients were given either a sugar-pill, .25mg melatonin, .50mg, 1mg, 3 mg, 6mg, 12 mg, and 15 mg. When all was said and done, the results were almost uniform among the patients who didn't receive the placebo. There was concern over whether over-use of melatonin would dampen the natural production of melatonin by your body and whether it would return or was a permenant change in brain chemistry, just making the problem worse in the long-term. I'm not saying it's necessarily dangerous but AFAIK it's not the type of drug where more is stronger, but more along the lines of once your brain detects the presence of melatonin (no real matter the amount) it starts your internal clock towards bedtime. You might want to look up the latest info on the stuff because for a while, a couple years ago, there was some controversy over this one and how much was really needed for proper relief and whether it was truly safe for everyone. Not to be confused with l-tryptaphan, which AFAIK has no dangers except for that bad batch that got the product pulled from US shelves in the 1980s..

Oh yeah, and i'm no doc but AFAIK melatonin definitely should not cause skin blemishes and itchiness and I think i'd have that checked out. That sounds like some kind allergic reaction that may be more serious and unrelated, and certainly a need to be taken care of..

Good luck

L

Two suggestions from experience for short term (2 weeks max) for sleep aids # 1 is a benzo called Dlamane, it is made for sleep, not like valium or any other benzo, just speep, and it works well! 20-30mg 30 min b4 bed is what worked for me
#2 Catapress aka Clonodine, is not a contrilled substance, thoug it does require an RX. It is a blood pressure med, but is used for many other thing including hydro wd and sleep ( caution it is not a benzo but if you take it more than a few times, do not stop suddenly. Any Dr. would rz ethr of these.
#3 combine both. and you will sleep hard. I am not a DR so please talk to one but my advice is solid

hey prettyhead,trazodone is great for getting me to sleep,good luck

If you're a hardcore insomniac (as I am), Ambien might not be a great choice. The stuff makes you sleepy, but it can also do weird things to you like make you halloucinate when it starts working. Sometimes I get so caught up in the weird visuals I'm seeing, I "forget" to go to sleep, and I end up staying up despite the meds. Then I do weird things like walk around the house, call people, eat tons of junk food, etc... The worst part about it is that it commonly causes amnesia during these episodes, so I'll wake up to food wrappers all over my room, food in my bed, weird writing in my notebooks, and confused friends calling to check on me. It is also short-lived, so you may find yourself waking up REALLY early in the morning (4 am), too close to wake-up time to dose again and get some sleep.

Last time I took it, I woke up for class and literally saw tracers when I waved my hand in front of my face, like I imagine LSD to be. It looked just like a 1960's drug movie... My doc said it was not physically addictive, as it is out of your system in 8-10 hours, but people become psychologically addicted to it to get to bed. If you do try it, take it and get in the bed ASAP. Don't do anything of any importance after you pop that pill -- it works in less than 15 minutes sometimes. If you can, have someone else in the house who knows what's going on and can help you out if something goes wrong. Lock up the remainder of the meds, too, because in your stupor you may think it's not working and re-dose, or even forget you took it. I know people who swear by it, and my doc thinks it's great for long-term use, but it is DEFINITELY not for me.

I've had a similar experience with Ambien. I've only taken it twice but both times it actually made me a little hyper. I started doing tons of stuff, like things I can't usually get myself to do, and all of a sudden I had this urge to do all these chores. Very strange. Definitely not sleepy, but just a semi-unreal feeling, but not unpleasant. It actually improved my mood like a stimulant as well as making me want to stay up and do stuff.
I think my reaction must be unusual if this is a popular sleep aid. Makes me wonder about my brain and why it's Best if kept off the board backwards. Actually it would explain a lot...

It sounds to me that you are fighting it. Ambien is used recreationally by fighting the drowsy feeling, which can lead to hallucinations. I know you're not doing that, but try to take it on an empty stomach, in bed, and read or something for 30 min. Then just clear your mind (I know, that's hard to do!), and try to relax. For me, I don't even know that I'm drowsy, I just fall asleep. It might not last all night. It does have a short half-life; but that is exactly why it is so good. You should not have a hangover the next day. It depends a lot on your own physiology: if you need 8 hours/day of sleep, there is no pharmaceutical solution that will do that and be safe for long term treatment. If you can get by with six hours, ambien can do it for most people.

Now I will make a radical recommendation that will probably get me blasted: take 1 (and only 1) shot of brandy or something similar. It will enhance the effect of ambien by a factor of two, and it is not dangerous (remember, only 1!). Good luck,
D.

I think I was fighting it subconsciously. I get terribly wound up at bedtime and anxious about the next day and all I have to do, which is why I need help to get to sleep in the first place, so it makes sense. Most other meds made me hung over, so Ambien seemed great with the short time it stays in your system. Unfortunately, I just can't have myself pigging out on the leftovers or finding peanut butter in the bed, ya know?

I've heard that about the recreational use. I read about kids putting it up their nose, and I can't imagine how that would be fun. I like to remember the evening when I go out and let loose, not have people tell me what dumb things I did the next morning.

Sunflower -- I've also felt that weird "amped up" feeling when I used to take it. It's strange because it's the exact opposite of what's supposed to happen. Maybe that's just more confirmation that it isn't the sleep aid for us.

As for trazodone: I get hung over from 100mg or even 50mg, so it was a poor choice for me, but my doc said you can even split the 50mg pills if it's too much and go down to 25mg. As for as sleep aids, you can't beat it for being non-addictive, and it might even help your mood as a bonus since it's an antidepressant.

I wanted to add:

Sunflower, you propose that our reactions to Ambien are probably unusual, since it's so popular. I thought so too, until I started reading up on it. My doc had no clue it could give you vision distortions and thought I was having psychological issues... and he's a shrink, and very med-savvy. The visuals are common enough to have made this med. popular with recreational users, and common enough for me to have experienced it multiple times before stopping the medication. Something is going on here. Either:

1) No one is telling their docs about this, or

2) The drug company is keeping it hush-hush.

Halloucinations aren't even mentioned on the TV commercials (the amnesia is, but I'm told that happens with other sleep aids too). That's a pretty serious side effect not to mention! Ambien is extremely popular right now, and I'm pretty cynical, so I tend to believe the latter.

i've had sleep problems since i've been 12 and cant't sleep longer than 2 hours at a time it takes about 3 hours to actually fall asleep do to pain and incomfort, tossing and turning trying to fing a less painful position, and then i keep waking up either to Best if kept off the board or just for no reason at all i'm 24 now an also have had croninc back and shoulder /neck pain as well, in my book there is no answer to this sleep problem,used vals xanex and alchol not promting this method but it works the best. i have a baby on the way and wish i wasn't is so much pain i'd like to play with her as a father should. but the only plus i see to this is i'm used to not sleeping and that seems to be the big things people talk about having newborns. so maybe god just decided to bless me with years of practice, in this catagory. no matter how bad we think we have it it could always be worse.
and last melatonin does help alittle. whish this was more help than a self pitty post. love and hope to all
inf.

There's more of that body-chemistry in action. For me, Ambien is beyond useless. No matter how many I took (within reason, of course!) nothing happened. Nada. Heck, I was even curious about this hallucination stuff, not that I was trying to use it recreationally but just out of curiosity why, but I never saw anything anymore exciting than the ceiling above my bed all night long. After a lifetime of insomnia, i've found that my best sleep 'program' involves rotating different sleep meds and not staying on the same one for too long before switching. Sometimes one of a half-dozen different types of benzos I have collected over the ages, sometimes elavil, sometimes just melatonin and a wish, sometimes a shot of Grey Goose, etc. and I just keep switching around. It's not a great solution, but it works OK and it's surely better IMO than being a zombie all the time from insomnia... Sometimes I feel like i could have been cast in Fight Club...

L - wishing for the olden days when you could buy barbs and other meds that really knocked you you....

I dont understand what it is about ambien that gets u addicted

Trazadone is a strange drug, makes me feel like Im paralyzed at times!

It acts on benzodiazepine receptors, or sub-types. It has reinforcing properties. The body 'gets used' to sleeping drugs very quickly, and not just zolpidem.

However, there is a school of thought that says that drugs with such incredibly short half-lives tend to be eliminated quickly enough for the body to be 'reset' before the next dose. It sounds a trifle dodgy to me.

The body can become accustomed to sleep aids in refusing to sleep if the drug has not been taken. This may work with placebos, too.

It is the only one of the Z-drugs to be controlled beyond POM in the UK.

ambien does not get you addicted. you build a tolerance like any other drug.
even with a tolerance, it is still effective. the best feature of ambien is that you CAN still function in an emergency and if you take the drug and do not go to sleep, it is because you do not want to.
I have been taking it successfully for years. i may take a break for a couple days every few weeks just to help keep the tolerance down.

prettyday, there is a whole chapter on the subject of sleep meds in the book, "From Fatigued to Fantastic," by Jacob Tieitelbaum, MD. He will use as many sleep meds as necessary for his patients to get 7-8 hours of deep, interrupted, restorative sleep. He has done it with 2,000 patients and has a lot of clinical experience with what works and what doesn't.

I personally have to take Ambien 12.5mg, Trazadone 150mg, and a herbal sleep mixture which contains Valerian, Passionflower, L-Theanine, Hops, Jamaica Dogwood, and Wild Lettuce. I take three capsules of that stuff.

Nothing less than the combination of all the above works for me. Some people might need 8 or 10 different sleep meds in order to get good, restorative sleep. I highly suggest you read Tietelbaum's book and maybe show it to your doctor. This is it here: http://www.amazon.com/Fatigued-Fantastic-Jacob-Teitelbaum/dp/1583332898

Of course, there are various other things to consider besides sleep meds: http://www.sleepfoundation.org/site/c.hu...eep_Hygiene.htm
Also need to rule out this problem: http://www.sleepapnea.org

It may be rare, but zolpidem certainly can be addictive, especially if larger-than-normal doses are taken. It's still a relatively new drug, and you can be sure that more cases of dependence or addiction will surface as time progresses.

There are cases of zolpidem addiction already documented.

Virtually any drug that relaxes or sedates in a not-unpleasant manner has addiction potential; sticking to sensible doses and using the drug intermittently may prevent dependence.

you're right...
i like the phrase..."not unpleasant manner". that pretty well describes it.

true, if abused, and it certainly could be, i am sure that a physical addiction could come, along with the mental dependence.

what is confusing is the natural "rebound" effect of many sleep aids. if you take sleep aids for any period of time, then just stop, the rebound of opposite effect takes place, insomnia, again.
so its wise to break patterns in using sleep aids. my sleep patterns and quality are better now because i do take a break every so often when i feel that i am possibly going to get to sleep naturally. that allows the drug to be that much more effective the next time that its used. I even alternate sleep meds. ambien for a week, rozerem(sp?) for a cpl days then back. that seems to help as well. after several years, i do not feel as though i am dependent on ambien, but i DO look forward to knowing that i will sleep at least a few hours straight thru without the usual all nite roll-around.
there is one thing that i do notice, that after too many nite stretch using ambien each nite, that i feel tired and lack energy in the waking hours, so that is curious. i am not sure if thats from the artificial sleep and not real deep REM sleep, of if its the apnea rearing its ugly head again.
regardless, of all the sleep meds out there, i have had the best luck and fewest side effects with ambien, and now it can be prescribed for long term use. up until recently it was labeled ONLY for short term, not to exceed 10 days i believe.

That's interesting; the drug is still only licensed for 4 weeks of use where I am. I'd say the manufacturer is very brave to get a licence for long-term use in the USA. I can't see the authorities in the UK granting them a licence for anything longer, but you never know.

The Z-drugs seem to me to be in a similar position to when benzodiazepines first came out to replace the barbiturates; people though at first they were less addictive - possibly non-addictive - but doctors were eventually left with many patients on benzodiazepines who could not withdraw from them easily. It may take many more years before we fully understand the extent of the dependence potential of the Z-drugs. Zopiclone is in the top 4 drugs most obtained by forged prescriptions in the UK.

Rotation seems to make some sense if hypnotics are used long-term, though if withdrawal was required, it may be a complicated issue.

nephro: The US prescribing information for Ambien CR 12.5 can be found here: http://products.sanofi-aventis.us/ambien_cr/ambiencr.html#2.1
There is no exact time limit for how long it can be used in the US.

IS OXYCODONE ADDICTIVE...IVE BEEN TAKING 30 MG EVERYDAY FOR THE LAST 2 YEARS AND I AM SCARED TO STOP...WHAT SHOULD I DO GUYS????

Are you joking? Oxycondone is *HIGHLY* addictive! Did your doctor not tell you that?? If not, you need to find a new one or educate yourself about opiates for god's sake! Honestly.

I've been prescribed zolpidem ('Stilnox' brand, and, more recently, one called 'Sleepman'!) on a daily basis for about two years now, and I have to remind the doctor to stop giving it to me sometimes. I only take it occasionally, so I have a drawer-full of the stuff!

It's funny: over here they will prescribe benzodiazepines freely for long periods, but won't give opioids even for short periods, even the weaker ones such as codeine and propoxyphene, unless you have cancer, or can prove a really serious condition that requires strong analgesics. My mother has been prescribed Valium and Halcion daily for at least ten years, and I am given Rivotril and Valium daily for my back pain (both of us only take them sparingly), but my doctor can only give me Temgesic and tramadols for my spine problems, and even then I have to pick them up every two weeks and sign for them.

I saw a television report recently that highlighted just how widespread the use of sedatives and hypnotics is here, so perhaps they are becoming more aware of the situation. I've heard it's similar in Japan and other Asian countries.

I'm also reaching the point of desperation because my doctor is tightening up on continuously refilling scripts. Starlite just isn't pulling through for me right now. Any ideas? I'm thinking about purchasing a CD set of subliminal sleep music. It's a little expensive so soon after Christmas