I have been on both here and VIP side pretty much nonstop last couple of days.
Let me explain.

This is my fifth night with no sleep, or at most 45 minutes over an entire night, 10 to 15 minutes at a time.
I always have mood swings once a month; rest of time I am depressed, but I hide it. I kind of feel like I am getting away with something; because I hide it pretty well. But ever since 2000. I can't sleep.
At all. I can go ten days without sleep. At that point I give up and go to the doctor.
I can't go back to him. Trust me on this. I'll end up with Zyprexa. I don't want to get stuck on Valium at night and Prozac in the morning, besides which I have found Valium cancels out the Prozac for me after a while. I don't know. Maybe I just need to take my meds at different times.
I don't mind starting a benzo, I just don't want to walk backwards into a problem, looking for a solution.
I am trying to do things right. But I can't when I can't sleep.
It doesn't matter what I do to tire myself out, but after the last two days I feel as though I am in a dance marathon. Alone. When I fall asleep, I usually talk, my husband tells me. A lot of times I wake up from a scream.
I always wake up with my muscles locked and covered in sweat.
I have taken Ambien before, but it only works for two hours.
I am looking for herbs at this point.

What works for everyone here?
Kava kava
Valerian
Passion Flower
What?
I am going to walk to the store and get some more Benedryl. I just went thru a bottle. Eventually I sleep for 15 minutes. I am quite aware that I am becoming not quite myself. Or, at little more myself than I really want to be.

So; because I want to take my Prozac again. I went off it, because I had tremors and really couldn't sleep. Now I am freaky from no Prozac, and no sleep. At least that horrible PMS is over...but now...I need to be able to rest so I can take my Prozac so I can do better so I can sleep.

Please advise.
I sometimes think I have problems from female stuff, sometimes from chronic pain resulting from injuries.
Either way, I have been dosed on every AD known to man
and Depakote and Lithium as well.
Well, those days were darker....but I wasn't sleeping.
What works for all of you?
Thank you with all my heart.

Man you've got it bad prettyday! I feel for you. Sleep deprivation is literally a form of torture. I have sleepless nights as well, and they are he..! Ambien doesn't work for me either. Ambien is a double edged sword for insomnia. It has such a short half life that it starts to wear off in the middle of the night, causing some people to wake up. On the other hand I know some people that swear by it. The fact that it wears off so quickly leaves them with no hangover feeling. Anything I would recommend you've already seemed to try. OTC's like Benadryl, Unisom, etc. they all are the same thing. What works for me if I really can't sleep is a long acting benzo like valium. Of course the next day is a little rough. But I'll take a little groggines over no sleep anyday. Maybe try a shorter acting benzo like xanax? I get the feeling you've probably tried this but who knows? Another option that is not in the benzo class of drugs and supposedly "not addicting" is Trazadone. I've never tried it but I have a freind that takes it nightly. Trazadone has to build up in your system to become effective so it may take a few weeks to work to it's full potential. Definitely seek professional help. Obviously this problem is only going to get worse with time. Good luck to you, and know your not alone. Millions of Americans suffer from insomnia.

I'm afraid to tell you it gets worse as use age.....I slept like a baby in my 20's and 30's.....now I go maybe on 5 hours a night.....broken sleep....often restless nightmares.....and I have no real problems...just a sign of the times.....like Erika Jong said "fear of flying"......always concious that "you're in over your head", and probably don't deserve the success and fortune your attained in life.
I am convinced we humans do just fine on a few hours every night.

Don't overreact.....you'll be fine.

Sounds like you have been through the ringer. Gosh I know all to much about sleep deprevation. Have you tried hypnotism--If you saw a professional hypnotist they might suggest a certain a special bedtime routine that they could help you trigger something in your brain that it is time to sleep--just a suggestion. I use to take Klonapin and it worked good for me--but of course there is the little groggy in the AM--but nothing a few cups of joe won't cure.
Good Luck....Hoping the zzzzzzzz's come soon.

Honestly what has worked for me and I've only been on it a week or so but boy I'm sleeping again!!! A PA prescribed me Elavil, I was wanting Klonipin or xanax but getting a reg doc to write those is close to impossible, so anyhow I was only sleeping at most 2hours throughout the whole night, sleeping pills would get me 2 hours exact and I'd wake up. I'm taking half a 25mg pill and my mood is better and I'm sleeping 6-9 hours a night. Give it a try.
Parg...

EFfexor XR. Begin @ 75mg and slowly titrate up. I would think you may need a dosage of up to 275mg or more. Work with a competent Psych. Additionally you may require clonzepam. Works well in combo with the effexor. When you are at the right dosages, you won't need benzos anymore and you will sleep like a baby.

take care and good luck.

OH MY GOD i can't beleive i red this thread this is me! i have had insomnia for years! i have dark circles under my eyes all the time i wonder how the hell i exist! it is torture, it is a waste of time,i cnanot functionin the day, i can't drive i am reckeless and it makes me so emotional i cry all the time, i have beenon every single thing out ther! i been to counseling, physciatrists, MDs, i have been through it all! i sleep so well until i reached my 40's, and now forget it! i count' lay down and take a nap if i wanted to and now at night i get so scared wheni go go to bed that it makes me not sleep! i am now taking xanex again, and no luck i am in work now andprobably selep 2 hours, i have trazadone, i have klonopin today going back to ambien whihc i s only good for about two nights, then it does not work. so ieven took werequel, whihc makes me have terrible nightmares and zombie like all day, i want to get on disabiltiy for insomnia!!!!! i have crashed my car into poles that are right in front of my face!!! it is like a curse a no sleep curse and tha t husband of mine falls asleep on the couch and i want to slap himin the head! he lays down in bed and is out in a second! and meee, forget it! i am telling you its probably mental for me at this pint i think nothing except old fashion secondal or just knck me out with anesthesia, i dont' even have hope anymore. but just to let you knwo you are not alone!!! I have told my brain and my body i will continue to live my life although you refuse to let me sleep!!!!! now i am raising my two year old grandson and everyone say "OH YOU MUST BE EXHAUSED AT NIGHT YOU MUST SLEEP LIEK A BABY" AND I WANT TO SLAP THEM TOO!!!!

HI - I suggest you try Soma, a muscle relaxer that really helps with sleep and pain.

Maybe I can help you....

I suffer from the same thing - but the non-sleeping tends to come in spells which cam last for weeks where I have trouble sleeping then sometimes only for a week or two.
Oddly enough this happens when I'm taking hydro.

Anyway, what woprks the best for me is Xanax. However there's a OTC herbal medicine that works pretty good too.
It's called Melatonin. Try taking 1 or 2 of those before you go to bed. Have you ever heard that turkey can cause drowsiness? It's not a wives-tale. The chemical in turkey that has this effect is - melatonin! Its' just refined and reduced to it's basic formula. Try melatonin first from your local health food store. If that doesn't work try Xanax - but of course you don't want to get hooked on those.... So have melatonin on hand to take care of it.
I hope this helps. It (better left off the board ) to not get enough sleep.

Good luck, Prettyday! I'll be thinking about you!

I was going to suggest Melatonin as well. It comes in a throat spray in addition to tables and capsules. A good friend of mine who was similarly afflicted tried it and it knocked him out. He told me he couldn't believe that it was even legal. Most people are not that sensitive to it, but perhaps you'll be one of the lucky ones.

I just came back from seeing my doctor and she prescribed Trazodone 50mg to help me sleep. She says I can take up to 75mg if I need to. Well, she said if I needed more than 75mg to call her back. I have had trouble sleeping for years. Ambien works to get me to sleep, but I am awake in about 2 hours. I have no trouble getting to sleep - it's the staying asleep that is the problem. I have night sweats and bladder problems (due to a hysterectomy) so, my question is --- will this stuff work? Do I have to take it long before I feel the affects and what time of evening should I take it? I asked her and the pharmacist these questions, but didn't get any real info... BTW... 45 pills cost only $7.00 wish it was that cheap and easy to get other meds... that would make my life much easier!!! And all of yours as well, huh? But anyway -- any info you guys can give would be appreciated..

My heart goes out to you. I suffer exactly as you say. No one can understand it until they've gone through it. It is a terrible curse. You just want to sleep but forget it. Also hit me worse after 40. Xanax seems to work but heaven help me if I run out. It also gives me AM headaches. Darn.

kt68, i'm not sure if they told you, but this med should be taken with food to get the full effect of the chemicals.
Goodluck

No they didn't tell me that --- So thanks a bunch. Does that mean I should take it with my supper - or will I be asleep before I get the dishes done? LOL

I would have a small snack a hour or two before your desired bed time and from there you will be able to judge a good time.
Goodluck.

Thanks alot for your advice - we will see how it goes!!! Will post again over the weekend and let everyone know how it worked out!!!

This med worked really well for me as a sleep aid; my doctor told me it is widely prescribled for sleep though originally it was made to treat depression. I had to be very careful about starting with just a little bit (1/3 of the pill which could be divided in 3). For me, it was very clean, worked VERY fast and no funky side affects. Hope this helps.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems, prettyday.
Well, you asked for herbal remedies, so I will offer you what little I know.
Since your problems seem to be rooted in depression, you might try St. John's Wort. A lot of people swear by this for depression.
As far as sleep goes, Valerian is supposed to be very effective for sleep. Chamomile is an ingredient in almost every bag of sleepy time tea availible. I, myself, enjoy drinking sleepy time tea with a little honey and lemon. Combining the two might prove to be effective.
I would suggest trying to find a practitioner of homeopathic medicine, or traditional chinese medicine or native american herbalism or something of the like. They can probably help you more than I can.
Most importantly, be sure to check CAREFULLY about interactions between herbal suppliments and prescription medications. They can be potentially fatal.
Massage therapy, Yoga and other stress reducing practices might be of great value in combination with other therapies.
Likely, you won't find one magic pill, but you will have to combine several therapies in order to be successful.
Good luck and I hope you manage to get some sleep.

kt68 if the trazodone doesn't work the first night you take it don't sweat it. I believe in some cases it can take a couple of weeks to reach it's full potential. Needs to build up in your system. Your doctor may or may not have told you this, but I'm positive this is the case with some people. Just hang in there. Good Luck

Actually dsmmcm, I have to say your wrong with this drug, Quote from one of the makers:
Interesting Stuff Your Doctor Probably Won't Tell You: Desyrel is best taken with food!
In no way does this mean to eat a full course meal, it means best taking with a snack.
You can verify this with a search on the medication, I would do a check anyways just to make sure if what you are told is correct.
Goodluck.

I was interested in the posts about melatonin. I also hear it's very good inducing sleep.
This is a little off topic, but does anyone think melatonin could also be used to treat daytime anxiety?
If you take it during the day does it just make you drowsy, which benzos can do as well, or does it also ease anxiety?
I don't need anything for sleep, but I wonder if I should experiment with taking melatonin during the day?

I don't think melatonin would have much effect on daytime anxiety. The pills are basically a synthetic version of the chemical your body produces (or at least is supposed to produce in ample supply) when it senses nighttime, so when your body detects melatonin it should start to make you sleepy. AFAIK it has zero interaction with any parts of your mind/body that are responsible for anxiety so taking this stuff during the day would probably just screw up your internal sleep-clock even more. One of the main uses of melatonin (I know it works for me) is to combat jet-lag. If you travel a long distance and your body-clock is off from the local time, just stay awake until local 'bedtime' and take a melatonin. It should reset your internal clock and when you wake the next day your body sleep-schedule should be adjusted.

You might want to research this more, but AFAIK melatonin has no use at all as a daytime anxiety med. St. John's Wart is one to look into though, as i've read that it's very popular for this use in Europe.

Good luck...

L

The snack thing is why I remembered this drug, here is one of many that I have read , I can post more descriptive ones if need, here is the first one:
http://www.crazymeds.org/desyrel.html



US Brand Names: Desyrel, Sideril, Trazalon; Trazonil

Other Brand Names: Azonz (Finland)
Beneficat (Argentina)
Bimaran (Argentina)
Deprax (Spain)
Depresil (Philippines)
Depyrel (Israel)
Desirel (Thailand)
Manegan (Argentina)
Molipaxin (United Kingdom; Ireland; South Africa)
Pragmarel (France)
Reslin (Japan)
Taxagon (Argentina)
Thombran (Germany)
Trazodil (Israel)
Trazolan (Belgium; India; Netherlands)
Trazone (Indonesia; Portugal; Taiwan)
Trittico (Austria; Colombia; Greece; Hong Kong; Italy; Peru; Switzerland)

Generic Name: trazodone
Other Forms:
Class: Antidepressant.
Read up on these sections if you haven't done so already, because they cover a lot of information about multiple medications that I'm not going to repeat on many pages. I'm just autistic that way about not repeating myself.
FDA Approved Use: Depression

Off-Label Uses: Panic/Anxiety, Sleep Disorders, Bipolar Depression, Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia, Arthritis, Lupus, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Eating Disorders
Desyrel (trazodone) pros and cons:
Pros: The antidepressant you need if you have the combination of insomnia combined with mild depression and/or anxiety.

Cons: You might just sleep a little too well.

Desyrel (trazodone) side effects:
Typical Side Effects: - headache, nausea, dry mouth, sweating, sleepiness or insomnia, and diarrhea or constipation, weight gain, loss of libido. Most everything but the weight gain and loss of libido usually goes away within a couple of weeks..


Not So Common Side Effects: Low blood pressure. General cardiac weirdness, so Desyrel shouldn't be used if you have a history or family history of heart issues, at least, not without prior clearance from a cardiologist. Since it makes you sleep better, many people report vivid or unusual dreams. Like Seroquel, another medication prescribed for insomnia alone, there's sometimes a nasty hangover the first few days after using Desyrel. It usually goes away in a day or two.
These may or may not happen to you don't, so don't be surprised one way or the other.


Freaky Rare Side Effects: Priapism so bad that surgical intervention was required to get rid of the unending hard-on. Bob Dole shouldn't have relied on Viagra to take on Bill Clinton, Bob Dole should have tried Desyrel to go mano a mano with the president. Wait, there's more. Not only can men get stuck that way, but women too, as it once caused clitoral priapism.
You aren't going to get these. I promise.


Interesting Stuff Your Doctor Probably Won't Tell You: Desyrel is best taken with food, so take it after dinner, or dessert, to ensure a quality night's rest.

Desyrel (trazodone) Dosage and How to Take Desyrel (trazodone): The initial dose is 150mg a night, taken after dinner or "a light snack." But, really, start at just 50mg if you want to wake up the next morning. If you don't respond after one week, increase it to 100mg. Unlike most other SSRIs, people respond to Desyrel rather quickly, so you can work up to that 150mg dosage after two weeks, then wait a month before increasing the dosage. After that it's an increase of 50mg a day every four days or so, dividing the dosage, until you reach the maximum of 400mg a day.



Days to Reach a Steady State: Steady state data weren't published, probably due to its having a double metabolism.
When you're fully saturated with the medication and less prone to peaks and valleys of effects. You still might have peaks of effect after taking many meds, but with a lot of the meds you'll have fewer valleys after this point. In theory anyway.


How Long Desyrel (trazodone) Takes to Work: Unlike most reuptake inhibitors, Desyrel works for 75% of people within two weeks. If it's going to work at all, that is. Give it a month, of course.


Desyrel (trazodone) Half-Life & Average Time to Clear Out of Your System: Desyrel has a double metabolism. The half-life for trazodone is 3 to 6 hours, while the half-life for its metabolite is 5 to 9 hours. Apothecon didn't publish an aggregate, so figure at least 15 hours total, or three days to clear out of your system. step down your dosage by 50-100mg.
How to Stop Taking Desyrel (trazodone): Your doctor should be recommending that you reduce your dosage by 50-100mg a day every 3-5 days if you need to stop taking it, if not more slowly than that. Based on the combined 8-15 hour half-lives. For more information, please see the page on how to safely stop taking these crazy meds.
If you've worked your way up to a particular dosage, it's usually best to spend this many days at the next lowest dosage before going down the next lowest dosage before that and so forth. This is the least sucky way to avoid problems when stopping any psychiatric medication. Presuming you have the option of slowly tapering off them.


Comments: Desyrel is the official antidepressant of Sleepy-bye Land. It is rarely prescribed as monotherapy these days. Hell, Desyrel is rarely prescribed at all, the generic trazodone is what is in all those bottles. It's mostly an add-on antidepressant in case you have insomnia combined with your depression and/or anxiety. If you respond well to SSRIs and you're not sleeping, trazodone is a good addition to your cocktail to make sure you sleep. And sleep. And sleep. If you're going for the combination of antipsychotic and antidepressant, don't mix Desyrel with Seroquel if you want to wake up any time this week. We've come across one person actually taking this combination and she has one hell of a time getting up every morning.

Manufacturers: Apothecon (original manufacturer), Pfizer (US licensee), Watson (one of several producers of the generic form)


Sample US Cost: $135 for 60 tablets of 50mg brand name Desyrel. $11 for 60 tablets of 50mg of the generic trazodone. See why the generic is prescribed a bazillion times more often than the brand?
As of 11/11/2003. Full retail for the uninsured. Go ahead and gloat, citizens of civilized countries and all of you with full medical coverage.


Sample Canadian Cost: $37 for 100 tablets of 50mg brand name Desyrel. $37 for 100 tablets of generic trazodone. You don't save much going north in this case.
As of 11/11/2003. In US dollars, for re-importation to the US. Does not include shipping charges or currency conversion charges you might incur on your credit card. Currency fluctuations will alter the price on a daily basis

I love you all. I could feel the wishes for calm coming my way last night. I slept for four hours without incident, for the first time in countless days, weeks, at least.
I know this is no coincidence; once again I am a believer. I refrained from posting today, and let other people talk, so as to pay attention to their wisdom, and kindness. I will be PMing and posting in the coming days, both thanks, and updates as to what I am doing for help, so we can continue to help each other. But I think you should all know and be proud of the fact, that last night, you saved my life.

In the spirit of affection and thanks, I found this morning, and after all the nonstop sorrow and tragedies we are confronted with, everyday....I thought this was a miraculous sign, that maybe all is not lost, after all.

Thank you with all my heart.






low concept Dubious and far-fetched ideas.


Manifesto
A press release from PRKA.
By George Saunders
Posted Thursday, Aug. 26, 2004, at 12:59 PM PT



Last Thursday, my organization, People Reluctant To Kill for an Abstraction, orchestrated an overwhelming show of force around the globe.

At precisely 9 in the morning, working with focus and stealth, our entire membership succeeded in simultaneously beheading no one. At 10, Phase II began, during which our entire membership did not force a single man to suck another man's penis. Also, none of us blew himself/herself up in a crowded public place. No civilians were literally turned inside out via our powerful explosives. In addition, at 11, in Phase III, zero (0) planes were flown into buildings.

During Phase IV, just after lunch, we were able to avoid bulldozing a single home. Furthermore, we set, on roads in every city, in every nation in the world, a total of zero (0) roadside bombs which, not being there, did not subsequently explode, killing/maiming a total of nobody. No bombs were dropped, during the lazy afternoon hours, on crowded civilian neighborhoods, from which, it was observed, no post-bomb momentary silences were then heard. These silences were, in all cases, followed by no unimaginable, grief-stricken bellows of rage, and/or frantic imprecations to a deity. No sleeping baby was awakened from an afternoon nap by the sudden collapse and/or bursting into flame of his/her domicile during Phase IV.


Continue Article

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In the late afternoon (Phase V), our membership focused on using zero (0) trained dogs to bite/terrorize naked prisoners. In addition, no stun guns, rubber batons, rubber bullets, tear gas, or bullets were used, by our membership, on any individual, anywhere in the world. No one was forced to don a hood. No teeth were pulled in darkened rooms. No drills were used on human flesh, nor were whips or flames. No one was reduced to hysterical tears via a series of blows to the head or body, by us. Our membership, while casting no racial or ethnic aspersions, skillfully continued not to rape, gang-rape, or sexually assault a single person. On the contrary, during this late-afternoon phase, many of our membership flirted happily and even consoled, in a nonsexual way, individuals to whom they were attracted, putting aside their sexual feelings out of a sudden welling of empathy.

As night fell, our membership harbored no secret feelings of rage or, if they did, meditated, or discussed these feelings with a friend until such time as the feelings abated, or were understood to be symptomatic of some deeper sadness.

It should be noted that, in addition to the above-listed and planned activities completed by our members, a number of unplanned activities were completed by part-time members, or even nonmembers.

In London, a bitter homophobic grandfather whose grocery bag broke open gave a loaf of very nice bread to a balding gay man who stopped to help him. A stooped toothless woman in Tokyo pounded her head with her hands, tired beyond belief of her lifelong feelings of anger and negativity, and silently prayed that her heart would somehow be opened before it was too late. In Syracuse, New York, holding the broken body of his kitten, a man felt a sudden kinship for all small things.

Even declared nonmembers, it would appear, responded to our efforts. In Chitral, Pakistan, for example, a recent al-Qaida recruit remembered the way an elderly American tourist once made an encouraging remark about his English, and how, as she made the remark, she touched his arm, like a mother. In Gaza, an Israeli soldier and a young Palestinian, just before averting their eyes and muttering insults in their respective languages, exchanged a brief look of mutual shame.

Who are we? A word about our membership.

Since the world began, we have gone about our work quietly, resisting the urge to generalize, valuing the individual over the group, the actual over the conceptual, the inherent sweetness of the present moment over the theoretically peaceful future to be obtained via murder. Many of us have trouble sleeping and lie awake at night, worrying about something catastrophic befalling someone we love. We rise in the morning with no plans to convert anyone via beating, humiliation, or invasion. To tell the truth, we are tired. We work. We would just like some peace and quiet. When wrong, we think about it awhile, then apologize. We stand under awnings during urban thunderstorms, moved to thoughtfulness by the troubled, umbrella-tinged faces rushing by. In moments of crisis, we pat one another awkwardly on the back, mumbling shy truisms. Rushing to an appointment, remembering a friend who has passed away, our eyes well with tears and we think: Well, my God, he could be a pain, but still I'm lucky to have known him.

This is PRKA. To those who would oppose us, I would simply say: We are many. We are worldwide. We, in fact, outnumber you. Though you are louder, though you create a momentary ripple on the water of life, we will endure, and prevail.

Join us.

Resistance is futile.


George Saunders is the author of CivilWarLand in Bad Decline and Pastoralia.

Not a very convincing link. No references, just unsubstantiated claims. I'm not trying to be difficult, but you have made a claim that makes no sense to me. Other links/references would be appreciated. Why would food enhance the effectiveness of this drug?
Thanks,
D.

its retarded to prescribe valium for sleep and only sleep when there are other benzos with short half lives.

non addictive options:

25 - 50mg Dyphenhydramine (over the counter antihistamine and sleep aid, should pay no more than 6 dollars for 100 or else rip off, do not buy unisom or benedryl brand, rip off. do not buy as generic OTC Sleep aid, rip off, only buy as generic allergy pill)

0.25 - 0.50mg risperdal (also long half life and depressing)

5mg zyprexa (long half life and depressing)

3mg melatonin (its possible this tryptamine produced by the pineal gland at night time can help some people get to sleep, tolerance builds)

Antidepressants (some of these make some people tired or regulate their sleeping patterns)

addictive options:

10mg Ambien (warning: mega powerful drug for certain percentage of people, can be stronger than feeling very very drunk on alcohol)

Sleep-Benzodiazipines (The benzos with very short half lifes are indicated for insomnia)

Bogus options that do not work:

Passion Flower & Chamomile (Gimmicks)

Valerian (doesnt do anything)

Kava Kava (not good enough)

meditation (duh, it only works for some because the person who does it well has the right neurochemistry in the first place. cant meditate if your messed up in the head)