The injectable form is called Buprenex and it comes in 0.3 mg/ml amps.

Most addiction doctors would prescribe ambien for sleep during detox with bup, but do not take more than one. And never, ever take any benzo with bup, librium, valium and clonazepam have all have been reported to have caused deaths. It doesnt actually happen that often but is a well known risk, and dependent upon blood plasma concentrations of both drugs among other factors, but I would not recommend fooling around with that combo under any circumstances.

I am looking for a source online that sells bup, tem, or subutex. Anyone have sites?

Brian,
PM me your e-mail address. I may be able to help you

JP

What would happen if you took hydro while taking suboxone for a while? Do you need to be off suboxone before taking the hydro, just like at the beginning of suboxone treatment when you need to be off hydro before taking suboxone?

If so, how long do you need to wait before being able to take hydro?

do not take them together. bad move. if your on suboxone, and then you take hydro, or any opiate for that matter, it is my understanding that you will get zero effect from the hydro. and I believe it takes a good 2 to 3 days for the suboxone to leave your system before you can take any hydro and actually feel an effect.

Now, the above is if you are on suboxne and attempt to take an opiate. The other way around is much more dangerous. Well, undesirable I should say. If you take hydro in the morning or whatever. and then say 5 or 7 hours later(whatever) you take suboxne--your body will go into full withdrawl. There can be no competition at your receptors. if there is, you will have withdrawls. I dont know anyone and have not read about anyone that this has happened to, but thats what im told by my doc and what I have read about suboxone. Thats why you need to take your last dose of hydro like 18 to 24 hours before you start the suboxone--to avoid withdrawls. make sense? good luck, bone

thanks for the info. I was wondering about the effects of the reverse - from suboxone to hydro - like you said...

They all say to take suboxone 24 hours after your last DOSE of hydro/opiod..... I wonder how much time is really needed though... 18 hours? 15 hours? The literature/web site says you should be in "mild/moderate withdrawal"... hmm... Any thoughts anyone?

8 hours worked for me, but then again, I was in very very minor withdrawls at 8 hours after last dose of DOC anyway....so....

heres some information ive found- http://opioids.com/buprenorphine/buprev.html ..my question would be coming off of hydro and using the .02 buprenorphine[which i have],what would be a good starting dose and how to step down from there?approx how long would the step down take? any info would help..thanks p.s. i do believe i have enough .02 to follow some sort of regimen.

I guess it depends on how much hydro you were taking a day. You probably need around 6-10 of those .2 mg 's as a minimum daily dose to get and keep you off hydro. Then you need to think about a taper dose, so you need alot of the .2 mg's IMO. This is why alot of people opt for the in office treatment option with a sub. doc. PM me if you have questions since I've done alot of research on this topic.

If any person considering using or ordering Temgesic, I highly suggest, if you can muster the ability, ordering or using the injectable version of Temgesic.

The injectable will go much farther with your body so that you could take just one dose per day of the 0.2 or 0.3 injectable temgesic, and that would be more than enough to eliminate any and all withdrawls for someone with a "wicked high" tolerance to Hydro.

where do you order these from??

Folks.

The .2mg Temgesics are not comparable in dosage to the US Subutex or Suboxone.

2X .2mg's in the morning did wonders for a 200mg/day hydro dependance.

Start there. Less is more with temgesic.

Where do you get them from online?? You can PM me. I am having a really hard time getting info on ordering these!!!

Did I PM you that source Itsmee?

Just PM'd you...

If anyone could PM me with a good source for temgesic, it sure would be appreciaeted. Every place I've found has been extremely expensive.

thanks,

Lots of good info on bupe at http://heroin-detox.com

Buprenorphine is not supposed to be swallowed like somebody said he/she did. And its not working if used sublingual, at least for me. If you want to get rid of pain, sniff it or inject, these are the only ways it works for me.

no, don't sniff temgesic either. unfortunately for those who aren't comfortable booting it, it doesn't work nearly as well if you let it dissolve in your mouth. swallowing doesn't work at all, and sniffing it is iffy. it's possible that it simply gets stuck in your nasal mucus longer than if you chewed it, but either way bupe's bioavailability is only around 35%. which means if you snort or swallow a .3ug tablet, you're lucky if your body absorbs a third of that, .1ug. i've personally chewed 10 tablets, and not felt the effect as strongly as 1 .3ug injection. there are a couple sources i'm aware of, and i think the ampules are a good investment. bupe can last anywhere from 6-12 hours, so i definitely think you're getting your money's worth.

I do not quite understand this suboxone and temgesic difference. I have used the .3mg temgesic injections and it was an extremely potent euphoria. So if I take a 2mg suboxone, will there be any euphoria? Will that be enough to ease withdrawals or too much to handle? I know it has naloxolone, but does that block the bupe effects or just other opiate effects? Or does it block the bupe effects only when injected? Basically, how many mgs of suboxone is equivalent to .3mg of temgesic(injection)? I don't plan on injecting the suboxone, I just want to know how much to take. 2mg just sounds like alot and especially the 8mg. Right now my tolerance is about 70mg to 90mg of hydro per dose or 20mg to 30mg of methadone per dose. Anybody got any recommendations on a good starting dose? I just have a hard time believing these docs that I need 8mg when .3 used to be so strong.

See I take 8mg suboxone for withdrawals from methadone and its working just fine. Now my doc said if I were to inject it than the suboxone would not work or do its job b/c of the naloxone. Is that true or not. Anyone out there with similar info regarding this.

Forbin

hey col, when we used to take those ms contins, brant and jason g. shot some naloxolone thinking it was a narcotic (the brand name was narcan)and they went into straight withdrawals. i would assume the naloxolone in suboxone would do the same.

Hey guys - to answer a few of your burning questions...

First of all - it should be understood that a drug, any drug, has differences in effectiveness based upon how it is administered.

Most drugs are most effective and potent when injected IV. IM (muscular) injection is the next highest effectiveness, then comes other ways of administration, such as anal, oral, sublingual.

Buprenorphine follows the same pattern, which is why when people swallow the pills, they don't get any effects whatsoever. That's because the body gets to use about 1% of the total dose when swallowed.

If taken sublingually, or under the tongue - where the medicine absorbs into the body through a vein located under the tongue, the body is able to use much more of the total dose administered. I don't know the exact percentages so this is rough estimations.

Now, if taken by injection, into the muscle, then the body is able to use most of the dose administered.

So a 0.3mg injection of Bupe can possibly be equal to 4mg of Bupe taken sublingually, under the tongue. Again - I don't know the exact percentages and whatnot, but I hope you get the general idea.

That's why the Suboxone/Subutex doses come in higher mg - because when taken sublingually, more is needed, and also - because these drugs are designed for opiate-dependent and tolerant persons, who usually have quite the tolerance built up.

So as far as your doctor and the dose he wants to give you is concerned, this is just my opinion and should really only be treated as just that - an uneducated opinion, but I would say that based on your current intake of opiates, and how you were affected by the 0.3mg injections of Bupe previously, that a 4mg dose of Suboxone would be more than sufficient for you, once a day. Always start at lower doses, because if you need more, you can always just take more. But if a person starts at a really high dose, then they'll never know of they could have been okay to function at a lower dose.

Um - yeah - the Naloxone is added to the Suboxone to discourage or guard against Intravenous usage. The Naloxone is not orally activated and thus, in my book anyway, makes Subutex and Suboxone essentially the same drugs.

Now - many other people don't think the same thing as me with respect to this aspect of these medications, so I would advise reading as much as you can about how people interpret the differences between these two drugs and if there is an effect that the Naloxone has.

The Naloxone doesn't have any affect on the Bupe itself - as far as this question that you asked. It's actually the Bupe itself that does the blocking of other opiates or the forced withdrawal if other opiates are present when the Suboxone is taken.

Alright - so these are my opinions. Take them for what they are worth. Good luck to you guys.

"sniffing" bupe works the same way as sublingual.

sublingual salivary gland - a small salivary gland that produces mucin (the viscous component of saliva); in human beings it is located on either side of the mouth under the tongue.

Hi All,

I'm looking at doing a suboxone treatment program to get off hydro, and was just quoted $2400.00 from one doctor's office for a month long tapering program (and they're "not set up" to take insurance, ie, they're simply cashing in ). I am going to call a few more, there is quite a list of doctors now (43 in my state). The thing is, I may be more a candidate for maintenance rather than getting off completely, as I still have the chronic pain issue, which is why hydro became an issue in the first place. Is temgesic suitable for chronic pain management? Also, if I do find a doctor covered by my insurance, will the insurance pay for the tabs? If not, do any of the offshore pharmacies carry it? I saw some NROP asking 500 bucks for 100 of the .2 tabs. Geesh. Probably cheaper on the street.

Thanks,

Freeone

Freeone -

Some good questions there and I'll try to take a stab at them, but I don't know how helpful I can be due to the whole nature of the Suboxone treatment.

First of all - yeah, welcome to the world of Suboxone detox/treatment - where many doctors vary in the method they treat with, and differ in the price they charge. You'll find that.

What you'll also find though is that there are a number of good doctors who will treat the condition, rather than doing what they have to to get your money. Meaning that they will be open or committed to doing a maitainence program or something longer than a month, and many also will take insurance - but this also depends on whether your insurance will cover the treatment. That's a whole other pickle to get into.

As for your other questions...first let me say there is a difference between Temgesic and Suboxone/Subutex. Temgesic is Buprenorphine in 0.2mg doses and 0.3mg doses. It is found internationally and because of the low-dosage of medicine, usually is meant for patients who are not opiate-tolerant.

Suboxone and Subutex are medicines, U.S.-made, which contain Buprenorphine, but in much higher doses, coming in 2mg and 8mg tablets.

So - usually, if not always, you won't find any IOP's selling/offering Suboxone or Subutex. There are some who offer Temgesic tablets and there are email sources who sometimes offer Temgesic and Suboxone - but not at any price cheaper than at a pharmacy.

Is Suboxone/Subutex suitable for chronic pain management? It depends on the person. Believe it or not, some doctors actually prescribe Suboxone/Subutex on an off-label basis for pain management. I've talked to a number of people who use these medications for pain management, rather than using other opiate-based painkillers. And these people who are getting it for pain management - they don't need to go to one of the licensed doctors for Suboxone, because any physician who has the ability to prescribe CIII drugs, can prescribe Sub on an off-label basis - meaning for anything not "detox" or "substance abuse."

Lastly - like I said above, some insurance companies will cover the treatment, most all will cover the cost of the medicine if it is being used to treat pain, off-label. I have seen some companies though, after a while of paying the wicked-high price for the Sub tablets, tell their customers that they will no longer pay any Suboxone claims and that the patient must switch to a different drug, and most offer that Talwin would be an alternative.

So those are some items that may help you decide about this. Be vigilent in finding a doctor who your comfortable with and who isn't going to rape you with cost. And remember that the published 'list' of certified doctors changes pretty much daily, although the list doesn't get updated that often, so if you run out of choices, simply start going through the phone-book and calling doctor's offices or psychiatrists' offices and asking them if they are able to treat with Suboxone/Subutex.

Sincerest Greetings,
I am currently attempting to free myself from an opiate addiction. In the past I once went through a subuoxne detox and found it to be very preferable to any other opiate detox. I need to aquire some Temegesic and have found a few IOP's that carry it but would greatly appreciate some assistance in doing so. If anyone has ordered from or had experience ordering Temegesic through online sources I would be extremely grateful for any bit of advice. Anyone is welcome to PM or email me at Travisnapier@hotmail.com. Thanks to all.

Hi all, I am about to use subutex to stop taking hydro. I am at about 15 max per day easily. I can take 3 at a time and no problem. I got a few 8mg subutex and plan to start tommorow with 2mg when WD's kick in. I went onto that heroind-opied detox message board, and while people there are great, they are totally telling me not to go on subutex for "only a 15 a day pill habit", let me tell you, I have gone CT and tapered and it SUCKED! I want something to take away the WD's and I have spoken to tons of people who used it for either long term or short term and none have said anything negative, all the responses were positive. I have like 10 hydro left and figure now is the time to use the sub and get through the 1st 4 days when WD is worst (at least for me) and then deal with being slugish but at least not in WD's. I want to use it for maintenece as I can get it again, and can also get hydro again. I just see it as a cure for the WD's. Not getting sick or feeling like [censored], all I hear is how great it is, no high but kills the WD's and even perks you up.
So I plan to start low, like 2mg when I feel the wd's kick in.
Does my plan sound like it will work ? I want to stay on the subutex only for a few days to get me through the worst of the hydro WD, I hear if you only use it short term, than you will experience no WD's from it, even then, I can taper down but I can't get a hydro refill for another 2 weeks and no way I want to deal with WD's AGAIN. I am thinking I found the perfect solution but on that message board, they make me think like I will regret ever taking subutex.
I'm going for it as too many people have said how good it is. If I am wrong, I'll deal with it and update ya all!
Wish me luck!