Buprenorphine definetly does not feel stronger. I took 3 .2mg sublinguals and didn't feel even close to how I felt when I took 3 5/500 hydros. I even think that tylenol 3 feels stronger than it. Bupe sucks.

Anyone with experience or opinions as using this drug for a somewhat extended Hyrdo holiday? Such as 5 to 10 days? Any benfits or drawbacks to using this approach?

Seems very interesting, so I'm curious for any input because I have never used, nor personally known, anyone whom has used this drug.

Thanks, and God bless.

Hooman

taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine

what it is and the other names as well as they are different,

Buprenorphine is a partial opioid agonist and also an opioid antagonist. It came out as an analgesic in the 1980s, but is nowadays used also for the treatment of opioid addiction. It is sold under trade names such as Temgesic (sublingual tablet of pure Buprenorphine, used mostly outside the US), Buprenex (pure injectable buprenorphine), Subutex(lemon-lime flavored sublingual) Subutex is an oval shaped tablet in 2mg,4mg, and 8mg dosages. Subutex contains pure Buprenorphine, Suboxone(orange-tang flavored sublingual) Suboxone is a 6 sided hexagon shaped tablet, comes in 2mg, 4mg, and 8mg dosages. Suboxone is combined with naloxone). The naloxone is to deter addicts from trying to inject the tablet. Buprenorphine is a Schedule III drug under the Convention on Psychotropic Substances[

There were some deaths in France from people injecting Subutex and Rohypnol at the same time.

Do not do tems and hydro together.

you use tems to quit doing hydro without having the severe withdrawls.

I signed up for the Suboxone program but did alot of research and found that I didn't want to be hooked on 8mg of another narcotic daily.

Right now I'm more on the 2mg day of tems (10 x .2mg of buph) I have no w/d's, I have energy to get thru my workday, and I'm not consuming any hydro.

Buph isn't the drug to take if you wanna get 'high' -- If I wanted to get high there's much better things out there. I'm purely using the tems to get off hydro for good.

Interesting, just found this. (bold added by me)

http://dpt.samhsa.gov/pdf/2005_statement_buprenorphine_30%20patient.pdf


For Immediate Release Contact: Leah Young
August 4, 2005 Phone: 240-276-2130
Statement
Charles G. Curie, M.A., A.C.S.W.
Administrator, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
“The Congress and the President have removed the 30 patient group practice limitation on the use of buprenorphine for the treatment of opiate addiction. By removing this barrier, our
healthcare system can greatly improve access to recovery for many of our citizens currently
addicted to prescription painkillers or heroin.
“I want to applaud the physicians who are prescribing this medication to help their
patients who became addicted to opiates and I am reassured that early concerns about the abuse
potential of buprenorphine have not come to pass. We at the Substance Abuse and Mental
Health Services Administration pledge to continue working with the medical community and
addiction treatment experts to ensure that any person who is in need of addiction treatment for
opiate addiction can find a qualified physician in the community who can provide treatment.”
# # #

Pocahontas -Thanks for posting...would you mind sharing your taper schedule? I was in an automobile accident too. I won't go into details, but I was in and out of hospitals, doctors, and dentists offices for 2 years after that and had to take pain meds constantly. This got out of control 10 years later and my hydro usage was super high & not helping the pain. THANKS to DB I learned about suboxone, and found a great doctor who is reasonably priced...($250-$300 every 3 months). Unfortunately, I have been back and forth between suboxone and hydro for quite a while, maybe a year, and the really weird part is that lately, I NEVER have any hydro cravings (thank goodness!) because I can't feel it anymore! ~ This is a huge revelation for me and it's only been this way the past couple of months.... In fact, I cannot "feel" hydros ~even 5-6 days after my last sub. I WOULD LOVE to get off suboxone....this is kind of hard to explain... but I just feel "bad" and "down" 2 days after my last suboxone. I am very tired, yawning constantly, some sniffles, restless legs, and diarrhea, so..... I end up taking hydro at this point and it works! It stops all w/d's but I don't have the euphoria feelings anymore...a good thing! Now I will admit at first, when I went back to hydro, I definitely "felt" it and I'd end up taking the huge doses I use to take before I got on sub...350mg++ daily. However now, since I can't "feel" it, so I only take 1/4 the hydro I use too...(which is still too much)....but it stops the blues and sniffles, ( very minor symptoms compared to hydro w/d) so I take it......I'll do this a couple of weeks, at which point should try a hydo taper....but I don't.... I hate hydro w/d's, so.... I go back on sub (8mg daily).... ~I hope there is someone out there who can understand this!!! ~~ I still have pain, I believe I could manage it w/o opiates...but....I don't know... I am 1000 times better off physically & financially, and than I was before I started suboxone....and I would love to stop taking all meds like you did... however, I have some serious discipline issues! If you don't mind, could you share your taper schedule? It's time for me to get off meds and off this crazy roller coaster I keep jumping on! ~ I am curious if any one else has found sub seems to permanently block the "feel" of hydro?..... Or am I the only stupid one who keeps taking it? --Hope

DonBarba, Wow, I never understood their thinking on that 30 pt. limit in the first place....but anyway, IMO this is great news! Should bring prices for the doctor visits down, hopefully! Thanks for posting that info!~~~Hope

day 8 no hydro, no w/d

i've done only 1 .2mg temgesic today and about 3gr. of Kratom powder in capsule

wonderful to be free again.

i'm pretty confident that the slow taper i'm doing off the temgesics will also not bring about any w/d symptomn since by the time i'm finished i will be doing no more than 2 .2mg of temgesic a day.

be well all.. i know chronic pain sucks, i myself use cannabis for the injury in my knee and the TMJ, it does wonders for me. I understand that it doesn't work for all and for some it makes them tired. I'm one of the 'lucky' ones, can toke cannabis all day and still perform my daily duties of worker bee, father, husband, friend, etc..

if you TRULY want to be FREE of hydro you can be. It takes discipline, will power, and the absolute desire to have your freedom back.

be well all.

boo

raboo,

Good job so far and good luck in the future. The hardest part will be when u are clean and out of temegesic and Kratom.

Keep up the good work and let us know. You give many people on this board hopeand strategy.

Yes I know. I had 8 months free of hydro, or any opiod for that matter then fractured my wrist, and whadda ya think they prescribed for me, HYDRO!

And being the lover that I am for opiods I got hooked again.

Dumbest thing I ever did, but I do know that you can quit, you can start over, and you can start to 'live' again without the dependence of opiods.

Believe me I'm no angel. I like to drink on occasion, and I like my daily cannabis after work to just sorta let the day slip away -- it has never had the grip on my that the hydro did, I don't wait by my door for the ups/fedex man, and being in california is somewhat nice, they pretty much let you grow the stuff without hassle provided you aren't growing to sell for profit. So my current drug of choice basically is free.

I hope to not be injured again and if I do I think I would request something else that wasn't so addictive.

be well all
stay strong
-boo

another weekend with no hydro.

down to 1 (.2mg temgesic) I take it in the morning on an empty stomach.

then i take 4gr. of super premium Kratom powder in capsule form (it's about 9 caps based on the size of the caps that I use)

I follow with a warm beverage (tea, usually green) this helps dissolve the caps quick. Within 60 minutes from ingest I'm a happy camper for the day.

Lunch bring another 4gr of Kratom.

Then after work I do another 4gr of Kratom.

I'm just about out of temgesics. Today or tomorrow and I'll be down to only Kratom. I plan on this method for the rest of the work week. By Saturday I hope to be Kratom free as well, although I'd still like to try an 8gr dose and see what type of effects I receive.

will update the thread as needed.

hydro free , feeling groovy.

be well all
boo

That change came about from the lobbying of a Senator who had one of his constituents die from a heroin OD after he was not allowed to reenter a Bupe program that he had been in previously and was supposedly "cured." When he wanted to reenter the program they were at the 30 limit and turned him away.

Look at the Ryan Haight case. It takes someone dying who has friends and family lobbying for others on the dead person's behalf to bring about any changes in the law ... good or bad.

Nobody in the press or government, cared about this drug for years. It's not until it shows promise for w/d's that it becomes bottle necked. It's just another drug, a good tool under managed conditions, but its not perfect and its over managed. All the symtoms listed by the poster wishing to leave suboxone alone for good, are classic w/d symtoms.

rabooo, thanks for posting your story. I'm thinking of following similar lines to get off hydro & Tramadol (though I've never had Kratom and think it is rather expensive-?) But knowing you and pocahontas have successful quit with NO w/d...well that's quite a motivation for me to get moving.

Kratom isn't really pricey. 250grams for 250 bucks. I still have half of it left, only doing 12grams daily or roughly a 20 day supply at initial purchase. I could never make a bottle of 10/325's 90's last 20 days. No UPS or FEDEX in 2 weeks, they probably miss me showing up every day to hand over checks LOL

be well all
boo

^^Ahhh i would LOVE that feeling - so often not freaking about getting the m.o.'s in time and somehow managing to make pills last over a week...

I have been trying to find information on Subutex, Suboxone and Temgesic (BUPRENORPHINE). I can not find the answer I am looking for anywhere. My question is regarding the strenghths of these medications. Subutex and Suboxone comes in 2mg. and 8mg. dosages. Temgesic is available in a 0.2mg dose. My question is how many Temgesic tablets equal one Subutex or Suboxone tablets. Does this mean that it would take 10 temgesic's to equal one 2mg. Subutex or Suboxone sublingual tablet? Please, anyone with knowledge on these medications send me an answer.

curve, I kind of have the same question. I just got my order of temegisic .2mg tablets 10 of em for 36 bucks from rxambasader and plan to take a hydro holiday at some point, I do have Kratom but I am curious as to how to use the temegisic ? I know to put it under the tongue and wait until I am in WD's but how much do I use ?
I take anywhere between 6-8 hydro's per day and my tolerance is high so I want to take a holiday, I have before, I know that if I can stick out the first 3 days I will be fine after that so I was hoping the temegisic would be good for the first 3 days.

Yes, it would take 10 0.2 mg temgesic to equal one 2.0 mg suboxone, and the dosage is very individualized according to the type of addiction you have. 8 mg is usually reserved for the heavy duty iv heroin addicts, and 0.2 mg should be fine if all you are taking is 6-8 hydros a day. Just remember it is a partial antagonist and you cannot take it until you start going into physical withdrawal..otherwise it will block off all of your opioid receptors and send you into full blown wd all at once.

Whoa whoa whoa....I think you may confuse some people with your post.

Temgesic is only Buprenorphine, which is a partial agonist, not antagonist. The antagonist is present in Suboxone, as Naloxone, but not in Temgesic.

And so no, it wouldn't take 10 0.2mg tem's to equal a 2mg Suboxone, because Suboxone is a combination of medicines, in a 4:1 ratio I believe.

Also, lot's of people who were taking Hydro, maybe at higher amounts, but many of them have been given the 8mg doses...and pretty freely at that. Maybe depends on the Dr.

So don't try taking a ton of Tem's so as to feel like you're getting the same doseage as a person on Suboxone, because it won't be the same. Two different formulations. Anyway, start with one or two of the Tem's, they should be more than sufficient to take care of pain or withdrawls.

dmg,
according to martindale: the extra pharmacopeia and any other source you will check, bup is a mixed agonist/antagonist and will cause wd under certain circumstances. Suboxone contains naloxone to prevent IV abuse from people crushing up the pills and injecting them..it is ineffective orally and does nothing.
Trust me, or do some research cause I really do know what I am talking about.

Ok, I'm confused. How should I do this, I am at 8 hydro's per day, sometimes less but lets keep it at 8. Next week I plan to go CT so I can take a hydro holiday for a few weeks. I am armed with Kratom benzo's and 10 .2mg temegisics. Should I wait until the WD kicks in, then take a temegisic and see how I feel then wait a bit and take another if I still feel crappy ????
PM me if you really have good info!
Thanks!

A word of warning, DO NOT TAKE BENZO'S WITH TEMGESIC. Around six months ago I was detoxing with temgesic and took a 1 mg. xanax to help me sleep. I fell asleep and when I woke up I was in a total daze, my breathing was very slow and laboured. It felt like I had to remember to breath. I found out later that people have died from respiratory depression when combining benzo's and temgesic. If I had taken a whole 2 mg. bar of Xanax I do not want to think what might have happened. I feel like an idiot know when I think back adout it. I would like to know if there is a medication that is safe to take with temgesic to help you sleep. I read in this thread that serax (oxazepam) which is a benzodiazepine is given to patients to help you sleep. I am a little confused on this, because I thought benzodiazepine should not be taken with temgesic. If anyone has any comments on this I would like to read them. Is valium, rivotril or librium safe to take with temgesic and is it similar to serax?

If a hydro holiday is in order, wait until the w/d's have kicked in before any tems. Like people say here, less is more with them. You would be surprised how few .2mg tems it takes to make the process a whole lot easier.

Do you take Temgesic under your tongue like you do with Suboxone? Just wondering, cause if people swallow them and you are supposed to let it disslove under your tongue then you wont get any affects from the med, except being really constipated and have stomach cramps.

Bup has no effect whatsoever when swallowed, due to something called first pass metabolism. It is removed by your liver before it even gets into your system. By taking it sublingually (under the tounge) it gets absorbed directly into your blood. Either that or inject it, using the injectable form of course. The only possibility would be a little being absorbed in your mouth while swallowing, also known as buccal or absorbtion thru the membranes of the cheek/oral mucosa. BTW, that would be another method of taking it if you cant hold it under your tounge, to hold it between your gums and cheek until it dissolves completely, preferably up front somewhat so it doesnt just drain down into your stomach.