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#105309 - 07/20/04 06:31 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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Journeyman
Registered: 02/24/04
Posts: 51
Loc: D.C.
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Howdy. When I am able to order this, I do. I take less and less to handle the pain, and am able to go longer and longer between doses. It also doesn't make me "fuzzy-headed," and allows me to function pain-free, instead of bordering on the edge of screaming pain just so I'm able to do my job, and function in general. Its just too bad that the FDA doesn't like it being prescibed in this manner and tries to restrict it to detox programs (which I do heartily support), I just wish some docs would take the off-label use more seriously instead of prescribing Oxycontin, Duragesic patches or ridiculous amounts of short-acting hydrocodone or oxycodone. Really addictive things could easily be replaced with bupe.  Cheers 
_________________________
The last time somebody said, "I find I can write much better with a word processor," I replied, "They used to say the same thing about drugs."-Roy Blount Jr.
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#105312 - 07/26/04 06:48 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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Enthusiast
Registered: 06/15/04
Posts: 240
Loc: united states of america
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:09 PM)
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#105313 - 07/26/04 07:19 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 973
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:10 PM)
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#105318 - 07/30/04 04:28 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 178
Loc: CALI-DREAMIN
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How's it going? I PM'd you back-Have you checked your messages????....BTW, I DON'T know ANYTHING about temgesic....Can you...(OR ANYONE) tell me where to find it? I have a friend who's hydro-use is way out of control....Everyone in his family : mother, aunt, grandma, wife, & brother have medical cards (medicaid) It's a poor family & they ALL have health problems too! He is 33, had 2 heart attacks, 5 bypasses, needs 3 of they re-done...its sad... anyway, They all go to a local doctor every month and get several medications....plus pain meds they give to him!!! (no charge for their office visits w/ medicaid) He pays for the pain meds -usually 120-10's per relative every month! AND He goes to that same doctor PLUS another one in a bordering state. So, he takes all those hydro from his "sources" and his 2 scripts of 120 (actually 240) every month!__I'm AFRAID HE'S GOING TO END UP DEAD OR IN JAIL!!  He tells me he wants to stop-I've seen him try & fail many times....I'm very concerned & was wondering if someone would help me who knows a reliable place to get temgesic? How much does it cost? That MIGHT be an option for him, oh yea, he went to a 28 day rehab last year, didn't help ....This temgesic definately would be better than the 25-30 hydros he's taking every day! I WISH HE could afford to go to the suboxone doctor I use...BUT....until then....can someone GIVE ME SOME INFO on TEMGESIC, PRETTY PLEASE? Thanks in advance!--Hope 
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#105322 - 08/16/04 06:17 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Journeyman
Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 62
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Imago, I hope I can answer at least 1 of your questions! My original reason for being on hydro was long gone, I was tired of all the BS,and out of meds. I took my last 10/500 @ 6:45am, went to my PCP (He is a Saint) and told him the truth!!! He asked me what I wanted to do, and I told him I read on another board that Suboxone was the miracle drug. I had to call several pharmacies to find it, but I took 1-8mg @ 3:30p and I had no WD at all!! I felt great for 3mos. No pain,no wd but if I can offer 1 iota of advice it would be this: Taper from the sub. Feel free to send a PM if you have any more questions. Ken
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#105329 - 08/19/04 07:01 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 175
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Quote:
Us the pain equivalance scales 10mg/morph = 60mg oxy (oral) = 60-80 hydro(oral) = .3mg temesix (IV/IM = .8mgt temesix (oral/sublingual) = 1mg hydromorphone(IV/IM/SUBQ) = 1mg oxymorphones (iv/in/subq) = .2mg stadol (IV/IM) or .4mg stadol nasally. All these are for = PAIN RELIEF. NOT FOR OPIATE WITHDRAWL MAINTNENCE USE - IF your are addictecd without your doctors knowledge - see him about treatment
Whoa! So each Temgesic (0.2mg) is equivalent to 40mg of hydro?!?! I had no idea! That would mean that the 8mg suboxone tablets were 1600mg of hydro? Wait, can you tell me what I'm doing wrong here? I know bupe's a mixed agonist/antagonist...
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#105333 - 08/26/04 05:55 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 175
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Quote:
Responding to timberland:
While the bupe equivalency for pain may seem high, it does not produce the euphoric"everthing will be ok" feeling brought on by the short term full agonists. This is because its mixed agonist/atagonist activity produces a ceiling effect. Also, at least in my case, it has induced horrible migraine headaches. I for one am happy to be getting off it. Anyone been through bupe withdrawl? When will it begin? What is the severity like? I've been on a taper schedule. Any advice how long does the drug block your receptors?
Uh, the half-life is about 2.5 days, so in about 10 days you should only have about 5% of the drug left in your body.
You're the first poster who's actually mentioned negative effects of bupe! I'm sorry it induced migraines; the way it's been talked about (partly due to the mystery of it because high doses are hard to get), it's a miracle drug.
Since the half-life is so long, your body tapers off extremely gradually all by itself and the w/d is supposed to be very minimal. You don't need to regulate your dosage or anything; just taper down to a reasonable amount and then stop. It will decrease a few percent every day until it's gone. Gosh, I'm so sorry about the migraines, though - do other opioids do that to you, too? Anyone else have experience?
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#105334 - 08/27/04 01:07 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Stranger
Registered: 07/07/03
Posts: 15
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It's far from the miracle drug its touted as...why else would the feds allow it for narcotic addiction treatment, out of the goodness of their hearts? Before its use as a treatment for addiction, bupe was classified as schedule V! I get migraines, but have never had them at the frequency I have since going on bupe and they are usually induced by allergens, never drugs, until this one. Bupe is made from a different alkaloid(thebaine)of the poppy than the more common opiates/opioids. It stimulates the mu recptor, but not nearly as much as morphine, codeine, etc. But it dissociates more slowly, comparatively, making it a good candidate for preventing withdrawl without much euphoria(though as someone mentioned) it is a pretty good painkiller, apperantly not for headaches though!
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#105335 - 08/27/04 01:28 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Journeyman
Registered: 05/23/04
Posts: 62
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Hope,
Sorry to be so late with an answer , but I asked my PCP for Sub. and he wrote me a prescription for 30 8mg. 1 every 4-6 hours as needed, w/3 refills. It was approx. $210 per and my ins. would not pay. I noticed no w/d going from 6-7 10/500 lortabs per day, however I did not taper from the sub. like a dumb***!!!
The 3rd day after I ran out of the sub. I was climbing the walls!!! I was too embarrassed to call my doc.(2nd time) so I ended up back @ square one.
It is a miracle drug in my opinion, if directions are followed.
Feel free to PM me.
Ken
Ken
Edited by Leroy47 (08/27/04 02:14 PM)
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#105341 - 08/29/04 10:34 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/02/02
Posts: 2111
Loc: Southwest U.S.
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Quote:
Hope, No he was not on the list. I told him my story, he asked me if I got them from his office,and I assured him I did not. He asked me if I wanted to do outpatient, I said yes, and he wrote me a script.I don't think he ever prescribed them before. I read somewhere that any doctor can take an 8 hour course, but I have no idea if that is the case. Good Luck to all, Ken
If he was not on the SAMSHA list then maybe he didn't take the one-day course. I think that doctors who have the special DEA # for outpatient detox/maintenance with Bupe don't have to be listed if they don't want to. Doctors with regular DEA #s can use Subutex and Suboxone off-label for pain, depression, whatever they deem fit. They take a risk, though, when they prescribe anything off-label. In addition to the controlled substance concerns, they need to worry about malpractice. When a doctor prescribes according to the label, it's hard to sue them over the outcome. Not so for off-label prescriptions.
If your doctor prescribed it for opiate dependence without that special DEA # and without being board certified in addiction, he was taking a big risk.
_________________________
Vote Libertarian if you want freedom. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
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#105346 - 01/04/05 08:22 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 399
Loc: East Coast
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:11 PM)
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#105347 - 01/12/05 07:51 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/23/03
Posts: 1079
Loc: ID
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Questions regarding withdrawal from oxyc and oxycodone... My PMD feels that he found my pain generator and that a procedure will help me later this month, then start a taper, with bupe. What can I expect? I will be in the same office, same doc, everything, IF everything works(fingers crossed) So experts out there, step up and tell me what you think of this drug, and if it works, and how long it takes..I am not on a heavy dosage. Total of 40mg of oxycontin and 10 oxycodone for b/t. Any experts out there? trixxie
_________________________
Dream outloud
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#105348 - 01/12/05 10:19 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Member
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 98
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According to my doctor, there was a Fall, 2004 conference in Paris (where Buprenorphine therapy was pioneered) and they all agreed that many of the initial assumptions about Buprenorphine were wrong. Make sure you get a sufficient dosage. I was at 32mg by the end of my first week. You cannot OD on this stuff (so long as you do not drink or use benzos), so higher doses are fine. My doctor had a patient who was unresponsive until 70mg. That is common in Europe where they have had more success.
You insurance company will complain, but it is worth it. Methadone can be pretty devestating. I swithced off of it ASAP. I have been very happy with Buprenorphine, but I do believe that a high dose in the beginning really dose help. Higher doses are the best indicator that someonw will continure treatment in the first few weeks. For your current meds it is better to dose liberally.
Also, if you ever do need pain meds after taking Buprenorphine, remember that only Fentynal can override it without complications. Morphine and oxycodone can, but they often require a respirator. It is a bad deal. So if you are hurt, tell the doctor to use "IV Fentynal titrated to effect." I hope that helps. I have really liked Buprenorphine. I have tapered off of it after a car accident, and now I am back on at 4mg. It is really a great way to taper off opiates, or for side effect free long-term maintenance.
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#105351 - 02/06/05 06:26 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Stranger
Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 3
Loc: Gulf Coast
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:12 PM)
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#105354 - 02/07/05 06:20 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Veteran
Registered: 01/28/03
Posts: 552
Loc: North
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Quote:
do you go thru any withdrawls from buprenorphene as well since you stay on it for awhile until you get a stable dose and gradually lower your dose? i would imagine some type of withdrawl symptoms, but im assuming it's just less severe than hydro withdrawl, is that correct? i know methadone withdrawl is horrible, even with a gradual taper off, is bup like that too? thanks.
From my own experience, Suboxone w/d is NOTHING. Hydro w/d is hell.
I have been on Sub for over two months now. I had a week of no medicine and was abruptly off Sub for that week and I had no w/d at all!
When I began Sub, I was tapered up in dose from 2 mg to 8 mg daily. I will take 8 mg daily for now and later on, maybe a year, my doc will taper me down and off of it.
Since my experience has shown that I tolerate Suboxone very very well, I don't fear Sub w/d, or minor, if anything. Sub does have a long half life so that 3-4 days after stopping the med is when you might feel any w/d if there is going to be any. Hydro was just about 24 hours on the dot...I could predict my "flu" ..
_________________________
~Princess Pocahontas~
Better living thru the Pharmaceutical Sciences
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#105355 - 02/08/05 11:40 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Stranger
Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 3
Loc: Gulf Coast
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From my experience.....Unfortunately I "detoxed" 3 times as noted in my post above regarding prices. Thankfully the 3rd time did the trick and I have been opiate free for over 8 months now.....Please believe me when I tell you that the shorter the length of time you take the Bup or subs, the better. If you stay on past a few weeks, you WILL have w/d's from the subs. Not nearly as bad as from hydro, but not pleasant nonetheless.
Think about it...the subox or subutex is a synthetic opiate, which satisifes your need for opiates, and yes there is also an antagonist in the med which blocks the euphoric effects....but still, you will become "addicted" to a large dose, or even 4mgs per day, and will go through w/d similar to opiate withdrawal,though not as bad. The general consenuse, after reading about the topic for 8 months now, is the shorter the time, and the lower the dose of the sub, the better. The long term maintenance is advocated by some docs who do not personally go through the detox, so who knows better than the patient. ( me in this case.) After 3 trys, the one that worked best for me and most cases I read about was 4 to 6 weeks on the sub until you taper down to 2mgs per day....then take naloxone, for another 2 weeks....then stop!! A bit uncomfortable and craving at first, but nothing as bad as "quitting" the subs and nalox following an extended maintenance program I know maintenance is the less scary route to opt for in the short run, but in the long run you will be in what we refer to as "bup" hell....plenty of stories on the net. I can personally vouch for the less, the better. You will pay for long term maintenace and have w/d from the long term use of sub.....it is a synthetic opiate........ In the case of sub or bup...less is more!
Good luck....used correctly, subutex or suboxone is a blessing. It is better to detox with subox than subutex, as the subutex just makes you feel "too good" due to the opiate and euphoric sensation that does not have the opiate "blocker" that subOXONE has.
The meds are a Godsend....try to use a Family Practioner who is on the list. THe psychiatrists, in my experience, ar MUCH more expensive.
Good luck and God Bless.
Nicki
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#105357 - 06/10/05 03:10 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Banned: soliciting
Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 108
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:12 PM)
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#105358 - 06/12/05 05:49 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Banned: soliciting
Registered: 10/25/03
Posts: 108
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:13 PM)
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#105359 - 07/03/05 09:19 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Member
Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 146
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Quote:
This forum is not to discuss suppliers. This thread is to discuss Buprenorphine - Temgesic and not the compnaies offering it. We have other forums for that.
Thank you for your support.
Edited by Melody (08/08/05 01:13 PM)
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#105366 - 07/23/05 07:44 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 8800
Loc: Right Here
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taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphinewhat it is and the other names as well as they are different, Buprenorphine is a partial opioid agonist and also an opioid antagonist. It came out as an analgesic in the 1980s, but is nowadays used also for the treatment of opioid addiction. It is sold under trade names such as Temgesic (sublingual tablet of pure Buprenorphine, used mostly outside the US), Buprenex (pure injectable buprenorphine), Subutex(lemon-lime flavored sublingual) Subutex is an oval shaped tablet in 2mg,4mg, and 8mg dosages. Subutex contains pure Buprenorphine, Suboxone(orange-tang flavored sublingual) Suboxone is a 6 sided hexagon shaped tablet, comes in 2mg, 4mg, and 8mg dosages. Suboxone is combined with naloxone). The naloxone is to deter addicts from trying to inject the tablet. Buprenorphine is a Schedule III drug under the Convention on Psychotropic Substances[
_________________________
Takes a Lickin' & Keeps on Tickin'
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#105370 - 08/11/05 07:54 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 1014
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Interesting, just found this. (bold added by me) http://dpt.samhsa.gov/pdf/2005_statement_buprenorphine_30%20patient.pdfFor Immediate Release Contact: Leah Young August 4, 2005 Phone: 240-276-2130 Statement Charles G. Curie, M.A., A.C.S.W. Administrator, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration U.S. Department of Health and Human Services “The Congress and the President have removed the 30 patient group practice limitation on the use of buprenorphine for the treatment of opiate addiction. By removing this barrier, our healthcare system can greatly improve access to recovery for many of our citizens currently addicted to prescription painkillers or heroin. “I want to applaud the physicians who are prescribing this medication to help their patients who became addicted to opiates and I am reassured that early concerns about the abuse potential of buprenorphine have not come to pass. We at the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration pledge to continue working with the medical community and addiction treatment experts to ensure that any person who is in need of addiction treatment for opiate addiction can find a qualified physician in the community who can provide treatment.” # # #
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#105371 - 08/11/05 09:08 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Enthusiast
Registered: 11/08/03
Posts: 178
Loc: CALI-DREAMIN
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Pocahontas -Thanks for posting...would you mind sharing your taper schedule? I was in an automobile accident too. I won't go into details, but I was in and out of hospitals, doctors, and dentists offices for 2 years after that and had to take pain meds constantly. This got out of control 10 years later and my hydro usage was super high & not helping the pain. THANKS to DB I learned about suboxone, and found a great doctor who is reasonably priced...($250-$300 every 3 months). Unfortunately, I have been back and forth between suboxone and hydro for quite a while, maybe a year, and the really weird part is that lately, I NEVER have any hydro cravings (thank goodness!) because I can't feel it anymore! ~ This is a huge revelation for me and it's only been this way the past couple of months.... In fact, I cannot "feel" hydros ~even 5-6 days after my last sub. I WOULD LOVE to get off suboxone....this is kind of hard to explain... but I just feel "bad" and "down" 2 days after my last suboxone. I am very tired, yawning constantly, some sniffles, restless legs, and diarrhea, so..... I end up taking hydro at this point and it works! It stops all w/d's but I don't have the euphoria feelings anymore...a good thing! Now I will admit at first, when I went back to hydro, I definitely "felt" it and I'd end up taking the huge doses I use to take before I got on sub...350mg++ daily. However now, since I can't "feel" it, so I only take 1/4 the hydro I use too...(which is still too much)....but it stops the blues and sniffles, ( very minor symptoms compared to hydro w/d) so I take it......I'll do this a couple of weeks, at which point should try a hydo taper....but I don't.... I hate hydro w/d's, so.... I go back on sub (8mg daily).... ~I hope there is someone out there who can understand this!!! ~~ I still have pain, I believe I could manage it w/o opiates...but....I don't know... I am 1000 times better off physically & financially, and than I was before I started suboxone....and I would love to stop taking all meds like you did... however, I have some serious discipline issues! If you don't mind, could you share your taper schedule? It's time for me to get off meds and off this crazy roller coaster I keep jumping on! ~ I am curious if any one else has found sub seems to permanently block the "feel" of hydro?..... Or am I the only stupid one who keeps taking it? --Hope 
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#105373 - 08/12/05 10:15 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Member
Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 95
Loc: northern california
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day 8 no hydro, no w/d i've done only 1 .2mg temgesic today and about 3gr. of Kratom powder in capsule wonderful to be free again. i'm pretty confident that the slow taper i'm doing off the temgesics will also not bring about any w/d symptomn since by the time i'm finished i will be doing no more than 2 .2mg of temgesic a day. be well all.. i know chronic pain sucks, i myself use cannabis for the injury in my knee and the TMJ, it does wonders for me. I understand that it doesn't work for all and for some it makes them tired. I'm one of the 'lucky' ones, can toke cannabis all day and still perform my daily duties of worker bee, father, husband, friend, etc.. if you TRULY want to be FREE of hydro you can be. It takes discipline, will power, and the absolute desire to have your freedom back. be well all. boo
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#105375 - 08/12/05 10:43 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Member
Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 95
Loc: northern california
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Yes I know. I had 8 months free of hydro, or any opiod for that matter then fractured my wrist, and whadda ya think they prescribed for me, HYDRO! And being the lover that I am for opiods I got hooked again. Dumbest thing I ever did, but I do know that you can quit, you can start over, and you can start to 'live' again without the dependence of opiods. Believe me I'm no angel. I like to drink on occasion, and I like my daily cannabis after work to just sorta let the day slip away -- it has never had the grip on my that the hydro did, I don't wait by my door for the ups/fedex man, and being in california is somewhat nice, they pretty much let you grow the stuff without hassle provided you aren't growing to sell for profit. So my current drug of choice basically is free. I hope to not be injured again and if I do I think I would request something else that wasn't so addictive. be well all stay strong -boo
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#105376 - 08/15/05 08:44 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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Member
Registered: 04/13/03
Posts: 95
Loc: northern california
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another weekend with no hydro.
down to 1 (.2mg temgesic) I take it in the morning on an empty stomach.
then i take 4gr. of super premium Kratom powder in capsule form (it's about 9 caps based on the size of the caps that I use)
I follow with a warm beverage (tea, usually green) this helps dissolve the caps quick. Within 60 minutes from ingest I'm a happy camper for the day.
Lunch bring another 4gr of Kratom.
Then after work I do another 4gr of Kratom.
I'm just about out of temgesics. Today or tomorrow and I'll be down to only Kratom. I plan on this method for the rest of the work week. By Saturday I hope to be Kratom free as well, although I'd still like to try an 8gr dose and see what type of effects I receive.
will update the thread as needed.
hydro free , feeling groovy.
be well all
boo
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#105386 - 09/28/05 08:34 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2164
Loc: Bearing Strait Ice/Land Bridge
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Whoa whoa whoa....I think you may confuse some people with your post.
Temgesic is only Buprenorphine, which is a partial agonist, not antagonist. The antagonist is present in Suboxone, as Naloxone, but not in Temgesic.
And so no, it wouldn't take 10 0.2mg tem's to equal a 2mg Suboxone, because Suboxone is a combination of medicines, in a 4:1 ratio I believe.
Also, lot's of people who were taking Hydro, maybe at higher amounts, but many of them have been given the 8mg doses...and pretty freely at that. Maybe depends on the Dr.
So don't try taking a ton of Tem's so as to feel like you're getting the same doseage as a person on Suboxone, because it won't be the same. Two different formulations. Anyway, start with one or two of the Tem's, they should be more than sufficient to take care of pain or withdrawls.
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#105392 - 09/29/05 05:54 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic & Hydrocodone?
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2164
Loc: Bearing Strait Ice/Land Bridge
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Quote:
Do you take Temgesic under your tongue like you do with Suboxone? Just wondering, cause if people swallow them and you are supposed to let it disslove under your tongue then you wont get any affects from the med, except being really constipated and have stomach cramps.
Good advice Max, and Temgesic also comes in an injectible form, called an ampule. Basically, it's a little glass container, you break the top off, and then use it to inject into the muscle, which by the way, is much more effective than sublingual or under the tongue.
I think I've heard of one person say that even though they swallowed the tab, it worked great for them. But for the majority of people, if the tab is designed to be dissolved under the tongue, you best do so at the risk of waisting a dose most likely.
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#105410 - 02/01/06 03:25 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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Old Hand
Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 366
Loc: way up north
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#105418 - 03/27/06 09:43 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2164
Loc: Bearing Strait Ice/Land Bridge
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Hey guys - to answer a few of your burning questions... First of all - it should be understood that a drug, any drug, has differences in effectiveness based upon how it is administered. Most drugs are most effective and potent when injected IV. IM (muscular) injection is the next highest effectiveness, then comes other ways of administration, such as anal, oral, sublingual. Buprenorphine follows the same pattern, which is why when people swallow the pills, they don't get any effects whatsoever. That's because the body gets to use about 1% of the total dose when swallowed. If taken sublingually, or under the tongue - where the medicine absorbs into the body through a vein located under the tongue, the body is able to use much more of the total dose administered. I don't know the exact percentages so this is rough estimations. Now, if taken by injection, into the muscle, then the body is able to use most of the dose administered. So a 0.3mg injection of Bupe can possibly be equal to 4mg of Bupe taken sublingually, under the tongue. Again - I don't know the exact percentages and whatnot, but I hope you get the general idea. That's why the Suboxone/Subutex doses come in higher mg - because when taken sublingually, more is needed, and also - because these drugs are designed for opiate-dependent and tolerant persons, who usually have quite the tolerance built up. So as far as your doctor and the dose he wants to give you is concerned, this is just my opinion and should really only be treated as just that - an uneducated opinion, but I would say that based on your current intake of opiates, and how you were affected by the 0.3mg injections of Bupe previously, that a 4mg dose of Suboxone would be more than sufficient for you, once a day. Always start at lower doses, because if you need more, you can always just take more. But if a person starts at a really high dose, then they'll never know of they could have been okay to function at a lower dose. Um - yeah - the Naloxone is added to the Suboxone to discourage or guard against Intravenous usage. The Naloxone is not orally activated and thus, in my book anyway, makes Subutex and Suboxone essentially the same drugs. Now - many other people don't think the same thing as me with respect to this aspect of these medications, so I would advise reading as much as you can about how people interpret the differences between these two drugs and if there is an effect that the Naloxone has. The Naloxone doesn't have any affect on the Bupe itself - as far as this question that you asked. It's actually the Bupe itself that does the blocking of other opiates or the forced withdrawal if other opiates are present when the Suboxone is taken. Alright - so these are my opinions. Take them for what they are worth. Good luck to you guys.
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#105420 - 03/31/06 10:27 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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Stranger
Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3
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Hi All, I'm looking at doing a suboxone treatment program to get off hydro, and was just quoted $2400.00 from one doctor's office for a month long tapering program (and they're "not set up" to take insurance, ie, they're simply cashing in ). I am going to call a few more, there is quite a list of doctors now (43 in my state). The thing is, I may be more a candidate for maintenance rather than getting off completely, as I still have the chronic pain issue, which is why hydro became an issue in the first place. Is temgesic suitable for chronic pain management? Also, if I do find a doctor covered by my insurance, will the insurance pay for the tabs? If not, do any of the offshore pharmacies carry it? I saw some NROP asking 500 bucks for 100 of the .2 tabs. Geesh. Probably cheaper on the street. Thanks, Freeone
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#105421 - 03/31/06 11:06 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 2164
Loc: Bearing Strait Ice/Land Bridge
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Freeone - Some good questions there and I'll try to take a stab at them, but I don't know how helpful I can be due to the whole nature of the Suboxone treatment. First of all - yeah, welcome to the world of Suboxone detox/treatment - where many doctors vary in the method they treat with, and differ in the price they charge. You'll find that. What you'll also find though is that there are a number of good doctors who will treat the condition, rather than doing what they have to to get your money. Meaning that they will be open or committed to doing a maitainence program or something longer than a month, and many also will take insurance - but this also depends on whether your insurance will cover the treatment. That's a whole other pickle to get into. As for your other questions...first let me say there is a difference between Temgesic and Suboxone/Subutex. Temgesic is Buprenorphine in 0.2mg doses and 0.3mg doses. It is found internationally and because of the low-dosage of medicine, usually is meant for patients who are not opiate-tolerant. Suboxone and Subutex are medicines, U.S.-made, which contain Buprenorphine, but in much higher doses, coming in 2mg and 8mg tablets. So - usually, if not always, you won't find any IOP's selling/offering Suboxone or Subutex. There are some who offer Temgesic tablets and there are email sources who sometimes offer Temgesic and Suboxone - but not at any price cheaper than at a pharmacy. Is Suboxone/Subutex suitable for chronic pain management? It depends on the person. Believe it or not, some doctors actually prescribe Suboxone/Subutex on an off-label basis for pain management. I've talked to a number of people who use these medications for pain management, rather than using other opiate-based painkillers. And these people who are getting it for pain management - they don't need to go to one of the licensed doctors for Suboxone, because any physician who has the ability to prescribe CIII drugs, can prescribe Sub on an off-label basis - meaning for anything not "detox" or "substance abuse." Lastly - like I said above, some insurance companies will cover the treatment, most all will cover the cost of the medicine if it is being used to treat pain, off-label. I have seen some companies though, after a while of paying the wicked-high price for the Sub tablets, tell their customers that they will no longer pay any Suboxone claims and that the patient must switch to a different drug, and most offer that Talwin would be an alternative. So those are some items that may help you decide about this. Be vigilent in finding a doctor who your comfortable with and who isn't going to rape you with cost. And remember that the published 'list' of certified doctors changes pretty much daily, although the list doesn't get updated that often, so if you run out of choices, simply start going through the phone-book and calling doctor's offices or psychiatrists' offices and asking them if they are able to treat with Suboxone/Subutex.
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#105423 - 09/14/06 03:19 PM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
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Banned: posts indicate abuse
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 383
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Hi all, I am about to use subutex to stop taking hydro. I am at about 15 max per day easily. I can take 3 at a time and no problem. I got a few 8mg subutex and plan to start tommorow with 2mg when WD's kick in. I went onto that heroind-opied detox message board, and while people there are great, they are totally telling me not to go on subutex for "only a 15 a day pill habit", let me tell you, I have gone CT and tapered and it SUCKED! I want something to take away the WD's and I have spoken to tons of people who used it for either long term or short term and none have said anything negative, all the responses were positive. I have like 10 hydro left and figure now is the time to use the sub and get through the 1st 4 days when WD is worst (at least for me) and then deal with being slugish but at least not in WD's. I want to use it for maintenece as I can get it again, and can also get hydro again. I just see it as a cure for the WD's. Not getting sick or feeling like [censored], all I hear is how great it is, no high but kills the WD's and even perks you up.
So I plan to start low, like 2mg when I feel the wd's kick in.
Does my plan sound like it will work ? I want to stay on the subutex only for a few days to get me through the worst of the hydro WD, I hear if you only use it short term, than you will experience no WD's from it, even then, I can taper down but I can't get a hydro refill for another 2 weeks and no way I want to deal with WD's AGAIN. I am thinking I found the perfect solution but on that message board, they make me think like I will regret ever taking subutex.
I'm going for it as too many people have said how good it is. If I am wrong, I'll deal with it and update ya all!
Wish me luck!
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#626705 - 01/08/08 06:18 AM
Re: Buprenorphine - Temgesic
[Re: wlly321]
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Newbie
Registered: 02/26/03
Posts: 35
Loc: West Coast
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!!! not for the average joe or jane seeking to stop lortab or for those wishing to take a hydro holiday in order to get there tolerance issue down!! 
But since no one cares about that, the dosage you should take is based on how what opioids you take, how much you take, and how long. If you can't or won't go to a doctor, you are really playing with fire and IMO set yourself up for relapse; but anyway, start low and take as you need, taking more every hour as you see you need it to relieve withdrawal. Unless you have a huge habit, use the 2 mg's. Both Suboxone and Subutex comes in 2 mg and 8 mg strengths.
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